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Job System (billboard idea)


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Just now, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

Will limiting the obtainable items to just resources only be a good compromise? It will still destroy the resources buying in market, but I don't think many buy resources from market anyway. This concept is an interesting new idea, but it'll need a lot of ironing.

Still devalues the alert system as a whole I would say, and DE would likely see it that way as well.

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6 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

It would still be "Pay to win" in a fashion, only it would be a "Dont pay DE and instead pay someone else with a currency that is worthless to win." If you make it where people can play other people's missions for helmets, you flat out destroy all income for those helmets for DE. There are in fact players that buy alt helmets from the market because they dont want to wait anymore or they are tired of missing them. Your idea would take that away, as well as further decrease the number of players playing alerts (there is only so much demand so the number of "mercenaries" would be limited to that demand). It largely would not work in any form that would be usable by DE.

A lot of people don't pay DE for plats but trade mods and primes for it then spend it in the market for frames/ weapons/ alts or save it for future primes.

The people i mentioned above uses keys (now) Relics, which is free to get, and farm for primes for free, if they ended up with set, they will sell it for plats.

The people that can't farm for primes will turn to them "Mercenaries" AKA trade chat for help, if they can't farm plats they will buy it from DE.

My idea is more or less the same, but unlike cutting into PA/ plats purchases it's for Alerts only.

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17 minutes ago, (PS4)A_SimpleName said:

Would the "job" be worth 5-10 plat for someone who's looking for a Despair or Hate? I'm just curious.

I never looked "that" far so i think i will leave "this" in DE hands, am 100% on credits being payment and 50% on plats being payment but other stuff... let DE handle it :'(

Sorry for late response and going to sleep now XD

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3 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

A lot of people don't pay DE for plats but trade mods and primes for it then spend it in the market for frames/ weapons/ alts or save it for future primes.

The people i mentioned above uses keys (now) Relics, which is free to get, and farm for primes for free, if they ended up with set, they will sell it for plats.

The people that can't farm for primes will turn to them "Mercenaries" AKA trade chat for help, if they can't farm plats they will buy it from DE.

My idea is more or less the same, but unlike cutting into PA/ plats purchases it's for Alerts only.

Your idea would effectively destroy the trade market and replace it with a mercenary market, so now you would not have to even be online to be earning the items, making the people who are on line have to wait longer. Your idea also relies on every person to use the trade system, which we all know isnt even remotely accurate. People that don't like to trade will simply buy their own plat and get the items they want from DE with DE's set prices, not an arbitrary number set by the players. It also still devalues the market system as a whole.

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11 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

A lot of people don't pay DE for plats but trade mods and primes for it then spend it in the market for frames/ weapons/ alts or save it for future primes.

Actually, that's still the same thing. You could have 2 players paying DE $10 each for 170 plat and then using it to buy that new skin on their own; or you could have player A paying $10, spending those 170 plat on prime items sold by player B, who'll buy the skin from the market, and then player A buys plat again to buy his own skin. 

Players paying players is not a plat sink, it's nowhere near buying items from the market. Even if you're a F2P player, you're still benefiting DE by spending plats on the market, because you're lowering the total amount of platinum circulating in the game, avoiding an inflation. If you could pay other players platinum in order to get that alt helm, that currency isn't "spent", just moved between players, and so it wouldn't benefit DE in any way.

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4 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Your idea would effectively destroy the trade market and replace it with a mercenary market, so now you would not have to even be online to be earning the items, making the people who are on line have to wait longer. Your idea also relies on every person to use the trade system, which we all know isnt even remotely accurate. People that don't like to trade will simply buy their own plat and get the items they want from DE with DE's set prices, not an arbitrary number set by the players. It also still devalues the market system as a whole.

What you can get from Alerts :

1. Nightmare mods (rare alert, can be traded if there is demand).

2. Resource (not that high amount of it, can't be traded)

3. Alt Helmet (can be bought but at the same time this alert is rare, depending on frame, cant be traded)

4. Egg (rarest of all, can't be traded)

5. Credits. (can be farmed which you can get more by doing missions, can't be traded).

6. BP for some weapons and Vauban parts (can't be traded) .

What you can't get from Alerts :

1. Corrupted mods. (can be traded for high amount of plats or farmed)

2. Kavats DNA. (farm only or market only)

3. Primes. (real world money, plats or farm)

4. Prisma weapons and Prisma Shade (Baro only or trade except for Shade).

5. Syndicate mods and weapons (farm or trade).

6. BP for other weapons (Gorgon and Boar, farm or market)

7. Primed mods. (Baro or trade)

Did i miss anything?

The trade chat will be affected by this idea, maybe slightly, of course DE if decided to implant this idea they won't 100% copy it, they will refine it. 

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13 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

Actually, that's still the same thing. You could have 2 players paying DE $10 each for 170 plat and then using it to buy that new skin on their own; or you could have player A paying $10, spending those 170 plat on prime items sold by player B, who'll buy the skin from the market, and then player A buys plat again to buy his own skin. 

Players paying players is not a plat sink, it's nowhere near buying items from the market. Even if you're a F2P player, you're still benefiting DE by spending plats on the market, because you're lowering the total amount of platinum circulating in the game, avoiding an inflation. If you could pay other players platinum in order to get that alt helm, that currency isn't "spent", just moved between players, and so it wouldn't benefit DE in any way.

Unless player B traded or spent the plats then they will need to make plats again, at that point they either buy it from DE or 'work' for it!

No one keeps the plats forever, it will be spent and at that point it will be made either by buying it fro DE or trade/ work for it.

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Just now, Prinny13 said:

Unless player B traded or spent the plats then they will need to make plats again, at that point they either buy it from DE or 'work' for it!

No one keeps the plats forever, it will be spent and at that point it will be made either by buying it fro DE or trade/ work for it.

Yes, and my point still stands. When a player buys the alternate helm from the market, that 75 plat is gone, lost forever. When you're paying someone 75p (or less) to do that alt helm alert for you, the plat isn't lost, it's circulating. So instead of an alt helm eating up 75 plat from the game's economy, those 75p would be used on the alt helm and whatever the mercenary chooses to spend it on. The recruiting person does lose 75p (or less), but not in a way that would benefit DE.

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20 hours ago, TheScytale said:

Yes, and my point still stands. When a player buys the alternate helm from the market, that 75 plat is gone, lost forever. When you're paying someone 75p (or less) to do that alt helm alert for you, the plat isn't lost, it's circulating. So instead of an alt helm eating up 75 plat from the game's economy, those 75p would be used on the alt helm and whatever the mercenary chooses to spend it on. The recruiting person does lose 75p (or less), but not in a way that would benefit DE.

The same goes for trading tab bro, the plat 'spent' there circulate between players as well, yet it not harming DE even though most of them don't buy any plats from DE and still get what they want :/

Also updated my OP to be more on point. 

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2 hours ago, Prinny13 said:

The same goes for trading tab bro, the plat 'spent' there circulate between players as well, yet it not harming DE even though most of them don't buy any plats from DE and still get what they want :/

It's far from being the same thing. Let's compare the two situations:

Current system:

Spoiler

Players A, B and C want Saryn Chlora helmet, Vauban Armistice helmet, and Inaros Anubis helmet respectively, but their alerts have been really rare, and when they did appear, they appeared at 4 AM. So players A and B each buy their needed helm, for a total of 150p, the equivalent of $10.
Player D wants Shred, Hammer Shot, and Blaze, so he spends $5 and with those 75p, buys all 3 mods from player C. The latter will spend those 75p on the Anubis helmet from the market.

Items gotten by players: 3 alt helmets and 3 NM mods.
Total amount of plat spent: 225
Amount of plat still circulating: 0
Profit for DE: $15

Job system:

Spoiler

Players A, B and C want Saryn Chlora helmet, Vauban Armistice helmet, and Inaros Anubis helmet respectively, but their alerts have been really rare, and when they did appear, they appeared at 4 AM.
Player D wants Shred, Hammer Shot, and Blaze.

So player A spends $5 to get 75p, and he puts 10p as a reward for Chlora.
Player D does the job for him, and puts the 10p he just got as a reward for Blaze.
Player B does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Armistice helmet.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Hammer Shot.
Player C does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Anubis.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Shred.
Player A does the job for him, and gets his 10p back, ending up with the inital 75p he bought.

Items gotten by players: 3 alt helmets and 3 NM mods
Total amount of plat spent: 0
Amount of plat still circulating: 75
Profit for DE: $5

Now, of course this situation won't happen this exact way, but if you look at a much, much larger scale, you would have this happen way too frequently, and new players will have next to no incentive to buy plat.

The game is indeed Pay4Convenience, but when you pay for actual convenience, you pay the devs. Paying other players is not Pay4Convenience at all in the current state of the game, because you'd still have work to do after that, varying from minimal effort (trading for maxed mods) to real actual effort (Vauban Prime). The system you're suggesting makes it so that the community as a whole gets both free items and convenience.

Edited by TheScytale
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14 minutes ago, TheScytale said:

It's far from being the same thing. Let's compare the two situations:

Current system:

  Reveal hidden contents

Players A, B and C want Saryn Chlora helmet, Vauban Armistice helmet, and Inaros Anubis helmet respectively, but their alerts have been really rare, and when they did appear, they appeared at 4 AM. So players A and B each buy their needed helm, for a total of 150p, the equivalent of $10.
Player D wants Shred, Hammer Shot, and Blaze, so he spends $5 and with those 75p, buys all 3 mods from player E. The latter will spend those 75p on the Anubis helmet from the market.

Items gotten by players: 3 alt helmets and 3 NM mods.
Total amount of plat spent: 225
Amount of plat still circulating: 0
Profit for DE: $15

Job system:

  Reveal hidden contents

Players A, B and C want Saryn Chlora helmet, Vauban Armistice helmet, and Inaros Anubis helmet respectively, but their alerts have been really rare, and when they did appear, they appeared at 4 AM.
Player D wants Shred, Hammer Shot, and Blaze.

So player A spends $5 to get 75p, and he puts 10p as a reward for Chlora.
Player D does the job for him, and puts the 10p he just got as a reward for Blaze.
Player B does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Armistice helmet.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Hammer Shot.
Player C does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Anubis.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 10p as a reward for Shred.
Player A does the job for him, and gets his 10p back, ending up with the inital 75p he bought.

Items gotten by players: 3 alt helmets and 3 NM mods
Total amount of plat spent: 0
Amount of plat still circulating: 75
Profit for DE: $5

Now, of course this situation won't happen this exact way, but if you look at a much, much larger scale, you would have this happen way too frequently, and new players will have next to no incentive to buy plat.

The game is indeed Pay4Convenience, but when you pay for actual convenience, you pay the devs. Paying other players is not Pay4Convenience at all in the current state of the game, because you'd still have work to do after that, varying from minimal effort (trading for maxed mods) to real actual effort (Vauban Prime). The system you're suggesting makes it so that the community as a whole gets both free items and convenience.

Have you read the Opening Post? if you haven't, do it.

I did make the payment pathetic to avoid your job system example because the payment is from 1 plates to 5 plats per 1 player not 10 plats, to gain 75 plats you need to be lucky with jobs and wait and wait up to 15 days assuming you get 5 plats each day.

Also paying players will always pay real money for easy plats no matter what, i paid up to $400 and bought 2 PAA even though i could earn that plat through farming, i do have enough prime sets but still didn't care and there are many players like me out there.

Take another look at OP.

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21 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

Have you read the Opening Post? if you haven't, do it.

I did make the payment pathetic to avoid your job system example because the payment is from 1 plates to 5 plats per 1 player not 10 plats, to gain 75 plats you need to be lucky with jobs and wait and wait up to 15 days assuming you get 5 plats each day.

Also paying players will always pay real money for easy plats no matter what, i paid up to $400 and bought 2 PAA even though i could earn that plat through farming, i do have enough prime sets but still didn't care and there are many players like me out there.

Take another look at OP.

Try not dismissing the basic logic they have there instead read it. Having the items only cost 1-5 plat would take even more money away from DE with the second version he posted. Why would anyone buy anything gotten through alerts from the market if they can pay 1-5 plat compared to 75 plat? OP's idea is fatally flawed.

Edited by NeithanDiniem
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49 minutes ago, Prinny13 said:

Have you read the Opening Post? if you haven't, do it.

I did make the payment pathetic to avoid your job system example because the payment is from 1 plates to 5 plats per 1 player not 10 plats, to gain 75 plats you need to be lucky with jobs and wait and wait up to 15 days assuming you get 5 plats each day.

Also paying players will always pay real money for easy plats no matter what, i paid up to $400 and bought 2 PAA even though i could earn that plat through farming, i do have enough prime sets but still didn't care and there are many players like me out there.

Take another look at OP.

Spoiler

 

Job System:

Spoiler

 

Players A, B and C want Saryn Chlora helmet, Vauban Armistice helmet, and Inaros Anubis helmet respectively, but their alerts have been really rare, and when they did appear, they appeared at 4 AM.
Player D wants Shred, Hammer Shot, and Blaze.

So player A spends $5 to get 75p, and he puts 1p as a reward for Chlora.
Player D does the job for him, and puts the 1p he just got as a reward for Blaze.
Player B does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Armistice helmet.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Hammer Shot.
Player C does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Anubis.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Shred.
Player A does the job for him, and gets his 1p back, ending up with the inital 75p he bought.

Items gotten by players: 3 alt helmets and 3 NM mods
Total amount of plat spent: 0
Amount of plat still circulating: 75
Profit for DE: $5

 

Does this suit you more?


 

I've read OP. Making Nitain and other alert specific rewards tradable would give basically the same results as your suggestion, just with more varied prices (since right now, you're basically capping some items worth 75 plat at 5p + credits), and if these items can't be traded atm, it's for a reason. Sorry, but I just can't agree with this concept and for me it sounds like it wouldn't really do any good to the game. Just because it benefits players individually, doesn't mean it would be good for Warframe as a game or DE as a business company.

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50 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Try not dismissing the basic logic they have there instead read it. Having the items only cost 1-5 plat would take even more money away from DE with the second version he posted. Why would anyone buy anything gotten through alerts from the market if they can pay 1-5 plat compared to 75 plat? OP's idea is fatally flawed.

I admit that the idea is nowhere near perfect but far from it, the reason i suggested it to make things more convenience whenever it can be, can i be online 24/7 to snag that item on alert? no, do i want to pay plats for it? maybe no, if i could get it for free will i do that? YES. the same goes for a lot of people including me, its ok if we don't agree.

Also its a one job per job poster which is something won't even used that often only when its needed.

Do you think everyone will hop into this idea and pay less for more? no, why? why should they, if they could do alerts themselves then they lost nothing but gained things while DE and Warframe lost.

I did read his post including his basic logic, but he ignored most of players, if player want to spend less for more they will do that, if players want to spend more for less they do that, if player want to spend 0 and want everything they will do that.

Will that behavior hurt Warframe? yes it will but Warframe will recover when someone else spent their money on plats or PA, that the cycle of Warframe.

11 minutes ago, TheScytale said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Job System:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Players A, B and C want Saryn Chlora helmet, Vauban Armistice helmet, and Inaros Anubis helmet respectively, but their alerts have been really rare, and when they did appear, they appeared at 4 AM.
Player D wants Shred, Hammer Shot, and Blaze.

So player A spends $5 to get 75p, and he puts 1p as a reward for Chlora.
Player D does the job for him, and puts the 1p he just got as a reward for Blaze.
Player B does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Armistice helmet.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Hammer Shot.
Player C does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Anubis.
Player D does the job for him, and puts 1p as a reward for Shred.
Player A does the job for him, and gets his 1p back, ending up with the inital 75p he bought.

Items gotten by players: 3 alt helmets and 3 NM mods
Total amount of plat spent: 0
Amount of plat still circulating: 75
Profit for DE: $5

 

Does this suit you more?

 

 

 

 

I've read OP. Making Nitain and other alert specific rewards tradable would give basically the same results as your suggestion, just with more varied prices (since right now, you're basically capping some items worth 75 plat at 5p + credits), and if these items can't be traded atm, it's for a reason. Sorry, but I just can't agree with this concept and for me it sounds like it wouldn't really do any good to the game. Just because it benefits players individually, doesn't mean it would be good for Warframe as a game or DE as a business company.

Convenience is what am looking for, and as far i know its a self benefiting thing, last night an Orokin Catalyst alert went up, i couldn't do it because i couldn't login in time to get it :/

How often do you think an Orokin Catalyst alert we get? not that much, can i buy it from the store? yes i can, will i buy it when i cant wait for an alert? yes i will, if the alert came up will i still do it even though i have over 30? yes i will then proceed to buy more from the store.

 Those who don't want to buy plats from DE will still get it from other players and spend it on whatever they want, it doesn't matter where they get it from, they will get it and spend it. 

 Besides how often would you think someone will ask someone else to help with this or that? not that often. not to mention, if we all could do the alert, got the helmet and crafted it ourselves then DE and Warframe got nothing at all.

Being able to pay others to do something will help with plats income, it will make it move between players more often which will encourage spending, If i can do mission/ alert myself then no one gained anything but me. but when others sees an opportunity to make a quick plats they will try to hop in to get it and spend it.

How will this move the plats? do you think the plats you got from trading came from thin air? someone spent his real money to get the plats and that's how plats get into the game and this cycle continues, someone buys plats, spend it, then buys more plats.

If i wanted a helmet i'll will wait for it, if it came while i was playing i'll to get, if it came while i'm away i will ask someone to get it for me if i could afford their fee or if i have enough plats on me i will simply just buy it, but that just me.

If you think Player A, B, D, C will stay forever in this game then think again, players go and come, and new players will always try to get everything they can which means they will buy plats from DE, then move that plats to other players to get what they want, even old players will have to make a choice, save up from whatever generate plats or buy it from DE whenever DE releases something that's plats only.

Giving others the ability to farm plats is part of the game, don't deny this but you can get anything in-game without spending a single cent but at the same time there are those who wants to support DE by buying PA and plats from them, if they wanted to support DE they will do that, at the same time if some other wanted to not support DE they can do that as well and still play the game.     

Its ok if we don't agree, you made your points clear but i still stand by mine. 

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3 hours ago, Prinny13 said:

I admit that the idea is nowhere near perfect but far from it, the reason i suggested it to make things more convenience whenever it can be, can i be online 24/7 to snag that item on alert? no, do i want to pay plats for it? maybe no, if i could get it for free will i do that? YES. the same goes for a lot of people including me, its ok if we don't agree.

Also its a one job per job poster which is something won't even used that often only when its needed.

Do you think everyone will hop into this idea and pay less for more? no, why? why should they, if they could do alerts themselves then they lost nothing but gained things while DE and Warframe lost.

I did read his post including his basic logic, but he ignored most of players, if player want to spend less for more they will do that, if players want to spend more for less they do that, if player want to spend 0 and want everything they will do that.

Will that behavior hurt Warframe? yes it will but Warframe will recover when someone else spent their money on plats or PA, that the cycle of Warframe.

Convenience is what am looking for, and as far i know its a self benefiting thing, last night an Orokin Catalyst alert went up, i couldn't do it because i couldn't login in time to get it :/

How often do you think an Orokin Catalyst alert we get? not that much, can i buy it from the store? yes i can, will i buy it when i cant wait for an alert? yes i will, if the alert came up will i still do it even though i have over 30? yes i will then proceed to buy more from the store.

 Those who don't want to buy plats from DE will still get it from other players and spend it on whatever they want, it doesn't matter where they get it from, they will get it and spend it. 

 Besides how often would you think someone will ask someone else to help with this or that? not that often. not to mention, if we all could do the alert, got the helmet and crafted it ourselves then DE and Warframe got nothing at all.

Being able to pay others to do something will help with plats income, it will make it move between players more often which will encourage spending, If i can do mission/ alert myself then no one gained anything but me. but when others sees an opportunity to make a quick plats they will try to hop in to get it and spend it.

How will this move the plats? do you think the plats you got from trading came from thin air? someone spent his real money to get the plats and that's how plats get into the game and this cycle continues, someone buys plats, spend it, then buys more plats.

If i wanted a helmet i'll will wait for it, if it came while i was playing i'll to get, if it came while i'm away i will ask someone to get it for me if i could afford their fee or if i have enough plats on me i will simply just buy it, but that just me.

If you think Player A, B, D, C will stay forever in this game then think again, players go and come, and new players will always try to get everything they can which means they will buy plats from DE, then move that plats to other players to get what they want, even old players will have to make a choice, save up from whatever generate plats or buy it from DE whenever DE releases something that's plats only.

Giving others the ability to farm plats is part of the game, don't deny this but you can get anything in-game without spending a single cent but at the same time there are those who wants to support DE by buying PA and plats from them, if they wanted to support DE they will do that, at the same time if some other wanted to not support DE they can do that as well and still play the game.     

Its ok if we don't agree, you made your points clear but i still stand by mine. 

Your logic is built on the aspect of "But if I did the alert myself then DE gets nothing anyways." The point is you DIDNT do the alert, you let someone else do the alert for you and are benefiting from the act of effectively letting someone else play the game for you, something DE terminates accounts for. Unless the cost for the job to be done was equal to the cost for the item from the market, flat out there is a discrepancy and a net loss of profits for DE because you have slashed the cost of acquiring the item. They would just as well make the item tradable by that point instead of making some new system to clutter their time and bugfix that fills the same exact purpose.

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