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DE, here is a possible solution to fix Telos Boltace.


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On 19/10/2016 at 9:45 AM, Chipputer said:

"Newbs" and "Noobs" (which aren't the same thing, by the way) aren't the ones who are complaining about this weapon. Even if they were, they'd have every right to complain about their kills being stolen and not being able to play the game when some high rank player runs through their mission spamming room-wide AoE attacks that kill everything before they get a chance to see them.

Kills being stolen? Wow, I am sure ember is not doing that, neither is a 6-forma amprex. Oh wait, solo mode doesnt exist too - god have mercy on these new players who are not able to play the game due to forced-matchmaking with high rank players. Every right to complain about white knights

Edited by nomoreraining
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5 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

And therefore make the weapon strictly worse than any of the whips or the Orthos Prime.

It's like you don't even understand that the spin-wave is blocked by everything(including dead bodies, boxes, knee-high barriers, other enemies, and even slight elevation changes let alone any pipes or anything else that clutter most maps) and only has a 9 meter range at base.
Meanwhile the Whips and Orthos prime with Primed Reach have a greater than 9(Some whips have an 11-12) meter range and aren't blocked by anything.

Its like you don't even understand that the spin-waves damage decreases the further you get away from the source.
Meanwhile the Whips and Orthos prime with Primed Reach don't have decreasing damage.

Its like you don't even understand that the spin wave doesn't benefit from combo counters or mods that work off of combo counters (such as Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds).
Meanwhile the Whips and Orthos Prime with Primed Reach have their greater than 9 meter ranges get full benefit from all of those.

Its like you don't even understand that the forced bleed proc only deals 710 damage over 6 seconds at the absolute most(And this is only if the enemy is directly touching you as the damage fall off for this weapon is quite harsh).  Which is utterly pitiful at higher levels wher enemies have thousands upon thousands of health.
Meanwhile the Atterax with a decent status chance deals slash procs that deal tons more damage, and that can be further increased as the combo counter goes up for the Atterax.

So please tell me:
Why are you so dead set on making an MR8 weapon to be utterly useless and pointless compared to an MR2-3 weapon?
Why are you so dead set on making the weapons on defining feature be that it has the worst spin attacks in the entire game?
Why are you so dead set on taking away the one advantage that the weapon has?

Cos forums monkeys - spend more time moaning on forums than actually playing the game.

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Fine fine go ahead make it annoying to use,

but when you will discover that some melee weapon (with the right loadout mod) are able to OS lvl 80-100 mobs on 10 - 15 m per swing (or two for the heavy armored) please, rebuff telos boltaface & then I dare you saying you well placed to know when something killing the diversity or not, cause right, now I've plenty ways to do like the telos boltface but in faster process, and I will enjoy using them until you finally discover it

23 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

Kills being stolen? Wow, I am sure ember is not doing that, neither is a 6-forma amprex. Oh wait, solo mode doesnt exist too. Every right to complain about white knights

yeah you know, they need to show they got one, beside they never play any game where their role is to control & not destroying

19 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

Cos forums monkeys - spend more time moaning on forums than actually playing the game.

It's probably sooo true, and most of annoying useless nerf happen due to that --'

Edited by Soketsu
accuracy
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On 10/18/2016 at 7:10 PM, Lucernam said:

Why is the forum's solution to everything nerf this, nerf that? Isn't part of the fun of this game being an OP space ninja who fells all foes before him/her?

Because having the ability to easily one shot anything that gets close to you, rendering you immortal pretty much ruins any point in playing the game ever? You would quite literally be a bad player if you use any other melee weapon right now. So if you are, then please stop being bad.

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On 10/21/2016 at 0:34 AM, Tsukinoki said:

And therefore make the weapon strictly worse than any of the whips or the Orthos Prime.

It's like you don't even understand that the spin-wave is blocked by everything(including dead bodies, boxes, knee-high barriers, other enemies, and even slight elevation changes let alone any pipes or anything else that clutter most maps) and only has a 9 meter range at base.
Meanwhile the Whips and Orthos prime with Primed Reach have a greater than 9(Some whips have an 11-12) meter range and aren't blocked by anything.

Its like you don't even understand that the spin-waves damage decreases the further you get away from the source.
Meanwhile the Whips and Orthos prime with Primed Reach don't have decreasing damage.

Its like you don't even understand that the spin wave doesn't benefit from combo counters or mods that work off of combo counters (such as Blood Rush or Weeping Wounds).
Meanwhile the Whips and Orthos Prime with Primed Reach have their greater than 9 meter ranges get full benefit from all of those.

Its like you don't even understand that the forced bleed proc only deals 710 damage over 6 seconds at the absolute most(And this is only if the enemy is directly touching you as the damage fall off for this weapon is quite harsh).  Which is utterly pitiful at higher levels wher enemies have thousands upon thousands of health.
Meanwhile the Atterax with a decent status chance deals slash procs that deal tons more damage, and that can be further increased as the combo counter goes up for the Atterax.

So please tell me:
Why are you so dead set on making an MR8 weapon to be utterly useless and pointless compared to an MR2-3 weapon?
Why are you so dead set on making the weapons on defining feature be that it has the worst spin attacks in the entire game?
Why are you so dead set on taking away the one advantage that the weapon has?

That's.... not true. The stats from it are rather high compared to plenty of weapons, giving it plenty of advantages compared to other melee weapons.

 

If it was already "Eh" as you seem to claim, answer me this, why has it become so popular? You can make up whatever goofy thing you want, but it wouldn't be the weapon that anyone who can have it, has it. Tt's being sold and bought more then any other item for a reason.

 

Hell, if you really didn't care for it compared to the other ones, you wouldn't care. You're not going to whine if they nerf the Skana. You're whining because they're nerfing the weapon you already use and you're trying to make an excuse for it.

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6 minutes ago, WhiteCopain said:

Because having the ability to easily one shot anything that gets close to you, rendering you immortal pretty much ruins any point in playing the game ever? You would quite literally be a bad player if you use any other melee weapon right now. So if you are, then please stop being bad.

this is bullS#&$ that people who never actually read how telos boltace works keep saying

go back a little and see @Tsukinoki post explaining all the downsides that balance telos boltace perfectly, its a good weapon and the fact that you all get annoyed cuz its good and fun to use only shows how ignorant and selfish you are. I'm asking that for the 5th time in this thread, why no one complains about tonkor? synoid simulor? why? let me tell you why, cuz everyone uses them and its the go-to weapon for all the new players as well as the vets. You know whats the difference with telos boltace? that its not only good BUT ALSO FUN TO PLAY WITH and for some reason, that makes some people mad, I guess because they hate seeying their 6 forma galatine prime not being that fun anymore so lets scream together NERF!

Edited by Ninja_Of_Deep_Concern
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44 minutes ago, WhiteCopain said:

Because having the ability to easily one shot anything that gets close to you, rendering you immortal pretty much ruins any point in playing the game ever? You would quite literally be a bad player if you use any other melee weapon right now. So if you are, then please stop being bad.

I... feel like that is an oversimplification. Maybe folks don't have the Telos Boltace yet. It's a long climb to full Hexis rank and 125,000 standing.

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On 10/21/2016 at 6:26 PM, nomoreraining said:

Cos forums monkeys - spend more time moaning on forums than actually playing the game.

He's a founder. Pretty sure he played way more than we do.

Now he's dry out of content and trying to make the Telos Boltace still feel relevant, I'm thinking. I'm not sure why not being able to increase the range is such a trigger to him but, it's all preference I guess. My solution is buff the range, then make it not scale to range mods. Maybe 12-20 meters.

I think the problem with this weapon is that the spikes are only utilized by slide attacks. The current combos we have on the one Tonfa stance we have, all their last hits/multi-hits from their combos could fit with the spikes being released so well. 

If you're going to make a weapon feel badass, why not go all the way? It IS a syndicate melee that is MR 8 AND needs highest lvl standing after all. Should feel worth the effort as well. The other syndicate weapons need more badass passives/active effects too, of course.

Edit: I feel stupid now. Sorry xD Ignore this.

Edited by LunarEdge7
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4 hours ago, WhiteCopain said:

That's.... not true. The stats from it are rather high compared to plenty of weapons, giving it plenty of advantages compared to other melee weapons.

 

If it was already "Eh" as you seem to claim, answer me this, why has it become so popular? You can make up whatever goofy thing you want, but it wouldn't be the weapon that anyone who can have it, has it. Tt's being sold and bought more then any other item for a reason.

 

Hell, if you really didn't care for it compared to the other ones, you wouldn't care. You're not going to whine if they nerf the Skana. You're whining because they're nerfing the weapon you already use and you're trying to make an excuse for it.

Oh look - it is one of those guys who came trottling on a horse again.

The stats of it are rather high? Tonfas have one of the worse attack range/quick melee animations in the game - when was the last time you see people walking around with one before the telos was introduced? OH WAIT - sorry my bad, guess it is beyond you with that 325 hours in-game play time.

Since when has he been making an excuse? Wake up, dear John - dude was asking for an reason behind the cries for nerf.

And no, not everyone is crying over the the most recent fix. The problem lies in * like the OP who literally sat in forums all day stalking multiple threads on telos asking for various nerfs - poor soul is really desperate for community reputation.

Oh, and why is it so popular? 

1. Its new - players are tired of the old meta and would like to try something new.

2. Its good for cache clearance and medalions hunting - so people can actually not be a simulor-spamming peasant.

3. It is fun - crazy mobility, and u can now actually kill stuff with air melee using the waves.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find" Maybe you should stop spending too much time on the forums and play the game instead - that total of 36/105 melee weapons used isn't gonna give you much credit if you are gonna give statements like "That's.... not true. The stats from it are rather high compared to plenty of weapons, giving it plenty of advantages compared to other melee weapons." Stats are not the only things that matter when it comes to melee - stances and attack animation plays a huge role too. Cos hey, its not a simulor where you just need to left-click one button and watch things explode.

P/S: Please dont leave that skana of yours at Rank 8 - it's crying at the corner.

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2 hours ago, nomoreraining said:

pretentious post using player stats instead of an actual argument

Your most used frame is Ash Prime. Now just pretend I made some snarky point based purely on that and insisted that you're an EZ mode scrub with your 3100 hours and 18% of it used on Trash Prime.

Asking why people are "crying" for a nerf (read: wanting a stop put to macro spammers who literally run through the entire mission as a big energy tornado of death) implies ignorance of the other posts people have made. Don't start with your forum monkeys crap-- if you're going to participate in a topic, the least you can do is a bit of reading on the situation before you ask basic questions.

So please tell me:
Why are you so dead set on making an MR8 weapon to be utterly useless and pointless compared to an MR2-3 weapon?
Why are you so dead set on making the weapons on defining feature be that it has the worst spin attacks in the entire game?
Why are you so dead set on taking away the one advantage that the weapon has?

@Tsukinoki

1. Nothing about that would make it useless or pointless. It's guaranteed slash procs on a weapon that's made for slide attacks in a slightly higher range than other weapons. Guaranteed slash procs isn't pointless, no matter how much you want it to be. They stack. One instance is 710 in 6 seconds. Macro spammers stack multiple instances on enemies in quick succession. That 710 rapidly grows to 7100, 14200, 28400. They're still mobile and unable to be hit the entire time.

2. If you think the Telos Boltace has the worst spin attack in the entire game, without the long range shockwaves, then you need to try more weapons.

3. It would still have the advantage. It just wouldn't be able to encompass the entire room.

Don't talk to me about what blocks the wave. I'm well aware. I'm also well aware that it doesn't matter as much as everyone pretends it does. Yes, that guy behind the wall is blocked, but I've already spun everything on this side of the wall and the increased mobility from sliding has moved me to the other side of that wall where I've spun on that enemy. I've also spun right through multiple enemies on the way, slash proc'ing anything on my way and directly connecting with others, dealing huge amounts of damage, and also triggering CC or AoE elemental procs whenever they happen.

You think because I disagree with you that I don't understand how the weapon works? No. I disagree with you because I understand how the weapon works.

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3 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Your most used frame is Ash Prime. Now just pretend I made some snarky point based purely on that and insisted that you're an EZ mode scrub with your 3100 hours and 18% of it used on Trash Prime.

 

Baited like a kitten - I was wondering when someone is gonna start stalking my profile and comment on my favourtie frame. Sorry scrub - I guess the only loadout you have for Ash is 200% PS Bladestorm, if you even use it. Shall I recommend the best solo frame for sortie - which also includes smoke shadow for rescue, and seeking shuriken for 100% boss armor removal. Sorry if this might come as a divine enlightment for you - there are some players like me who prefer to solo assasination sortie with Ash in 7 mins, rather than sticking with a 4 CP meta.

Player's stats isnt related to the validity of argument? How are you suppose to put forward something reasonable while having no idea about the context? Wow, I should start seeking medical advice from folks who get kicked out of med school instead of qualified doctors, since they all went to med school, dont they? Imagine the host of a celebrity show trying to be the the President of the United States, LMA - Oh wait.

And no, forum monkeys are reserved precisely for people who spend too much time on forums talking about things they have little experience on.

"If you're going to participate in a topic, the least you can do is a bit of reading on the situation before you ask basic questions." Questions!? I asked none and have been rebutting all these time. Shall I recommend a pair of glasses as well? Just because a sentence ends in a question mark doesn't make it an enquiry per se.

"Wanting a stop put to macro spammers who literally run through the entire mission as a big energy tornado of death" - Problems lie in the macro, lets nerf the weapon!

P/S: All frames are trash if all you know is spam 1 button, dear darling Chipputty.

 

 

 

 

Edited by nomoreraining
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9 minutes ago, nomoreraining said:

P/S: All frames are trash if all you know is spam 1 button

Agree and prefer this one, why relying on one or all powers solely when there are weapons to kill enemy with. Powers are there to play the supporting role in my sense rather being the main material of the gameplay.

P.S- One may find Loki.P my fav frame cause I love spy missions and spend hours in exterminates to hunt down treasures. Btw I use all of his powers :)

Edited by AhmadIYE
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19 hours ago, Ninja_Of_Deep_Concern said:

I'm asking that for the 5th time in this thread, why no one complains about tonkor? synoid simulor? why?

[...]

that its not only good BUT ALSO FUN TO PLAY WITH and for some reason, that makes some people mad, I guess because they hate seeying their 6 forma galatine prime not being that fun anymore so lets scream together NERF!

I think the question you should be asking is "Why is no one complaining about the Atterax or Orthos Prime? Mios?" Those weapons are melee room clearers, and they deal far more damage than the Telos Boltace. The Atterax's Slash procs are pretty beastly as well.

And really, guys, gals, at the end of the day the Telos Boltace is a great weapon but the other Syndicate weapons could use a tweak here or there. Didn't DE mention that they were going to take a second look at the Secura Lecta, Sancti Magistar, and Rakta Dark Dagger? Instead of crying nerf, we should be expecting some slight QoL buffs for the other weapons to appeal to the playerbase more.

Edited by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23
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On 10/22/2016 at 3:43 PM, Ninja_Of_Deep_Concern said:

this is bullS#&$ that people who never actually read how telos boltace works keep saying

go back a little and see @Tsukinoki post explaining all the downsides that balance telos boltace perfectly, its a good weapon and the fact that you all get annoyed cuz its good and fun to use only shows how ignorant and selfish you are. I'm asking that for the 5th time in this thread, why no one complains about tonkor? synoid simulor? why? let me tell you why, cuz everyone uses them and its the go-to weapon for all the new players as well as the vets. You know whats the difference with telos boltace? that its not only good BUT ALSO FUN TO PLAY WITH and for some reason, that makes some people mad, I guess because they hate seeying their 6 forma galatine prime not being that fun anymore so lets scream together NERF!

Because all of those weapons that we don't complain about have downsides. Synoid and tonkor take time to fire and reahc their target or have smaller ammo pools. Telos Boltace is just the best melee, even post nerf.

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On 10/22/2016 at 9:38 PM, Chipputer said:

1. Nothing about that would make it useless or pointless. It's guaranteed slash procs on a weapon that's made for slide attacks in a slightly higher range than other weapons. Guaranteed slash procs isn't pointless, no matter how much you want it to be. They stack. One instance is 710 in 6 seconds. Macro spammers stack multiple instances on enemies in quick succession. That 710 rapidly grows to 7100, 14200, 28400. They're still mobile and unable to be hit the entire time.

One thing you keep on forgetting:
Those slash procs only deal full damage if you are touching the enemy as you do a spin attack.
At the extent to the 9 meter range you demand (which I have been testing in the simulacrum), the slash procs tic for 13 damage per tick.  Or a grand total of 91 damage over 6 seconds!
That is a pointless amount of damage.

No matter how much you want it to be those slash procs won't be killing anything.

Meanwhile the Atterax can do reliable slash procs for around 300 damage per tick, or 2100 damage over 6 seconds.
Hey, that might actually kill something!

On 10/22/2016 at 9:38 PM, Chipputer said:

2. If you think the Telos Boltace has the worst spin attack in the entire game, without the long range shockwaves, then you need to try more weapons.

At your suggested 9 meter range in a maximum damage build against level 35 enemies (starchart level enemies mind you) the attacks damage drops to below 1.5K after only 4 meters. (and lets face it, with primed reach there are a lot of weapons that can hit for 1.5K on a spin attack at 4 meters...so yes I do think that without the long waves and the incredibly harsh damage fall off that the T.Boltaces spin attack would be among the worst with your demands for range to not affect it)
And this is with elemental damage.
And no I didn't just test it against heavy units, I mostly tested against grunt units.
And mind you, this damage isn't going up.  Its going to remain flat and unchanging for the most part.
Meanwhile pretty much every other melee weapons damage is going to increase due to combo multipliers...

Meanwhile an Atterax can hit at 11 meters for 1.8-5.4K damage (depending on red crits or not) in a slide attack without any combo multipliers (and mind you this is in a 100% slash damage Atterax against level 35 grineer enemies.  No elemental mods, pure IPS)
And that number goes up and up and up as you get a higher combo multiplier.
And mind you, the atterax can hit through walls and through other enemies.

Meanwhile the Orthos Prime (MR3 weapon) hits for 1.5k at 10 meters (about double what the T.Boltace can when limited to 9), through walls and everything else.
And again that is without a combo multiplier or channeling.  So its damage is only going to go up and up.

Hek, even the Mios can beat out the Telos Boltace in spin attacks if the T.Boltace isn't allowed to have its long range and has to keep all of its downsides.

On 10/22/2016 at 9:38 PM, Chipputer said:

3. It would still have the advantage. It just wouldn't be able to encompass the entire room.

Please tell me what advantage it would have?
Because all I can see is a list of downsides:
-Blocked by everything
-No combo multipliers apply, meaning that its damage isn't going to go up at all....
-Damage diminishes the further away you get
-Limited to spin attacks for damage and range

Comapre that to say the Atterax (which in case you've forgotten is an MR2 weapon, meanwhile the T.Boltace is MR8) or Orthos Prime, or even Mios, which is:
-Not blocked by anything
-Gets full benefit of the combo multiplier, meaning that as the battle goes on its only going to do more and more than the T.Boltace...
-Damage is the same regardless of whether you are 1 meter from the center of the spin attack or 11 meters.
-Not limited to just spin attacks for damage or range

Tell me, what reason at all would there be to use the T.Boltace?
What advantage would the T.Boltace have?  It deals less damage at its maximum range.  Has a shorter maximum range.  Is limited to pure spin attack spam.

Edited by Tsukinoki
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Moral of story, the features on all these syndicate melees need to be decided on whether they're supposed to be just fun, or actually useful.

DE's confused themselves, I guess.

Until then, I'm only using T.Boltace for spore spreading or Ash and Nezha.

Edited by LunarEdge7
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  • 4 weeks later...

Slash proc could alternatively be substituted with AoE puncture proc. But ofc nobody would ask for it 'cos people love exploiting sleep+boltace for AoE stealth finisher crits.

Swapping the Slash procs with Puncture procs would actually work thematically and serve to protect the user and nearby allies by lowering the damage of enemies in range without outright killing them or permaCCing them.  It's actually a really good idea; bonus points if also comes with an innate passive of increased status effect duration so that you can really stack those Puncture procs if you really want to.

Edited by RealPandemonium
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On 11/16/2016 at 7:52 PM, RealPandemonium said:

Swapping the Slash procs with Puncture procs would actually work thematically and serve to protect the user and nearby allies by lowering the damage of enemies in range without outright killing them or permaCCing them.  It's actually a really good idea; bonus points if also comes with an innate passive of increased status effect duration so that you can really stack those Puncture procs if you really want to.

Last I'm aware of, only toxin(and gas by proxy), slash dots and corrosive procs actually stack. Every other proc simply resets the time or reapplies the proc.

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4 hours ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

Last I'm aware of, only toxin(and gas by proxy), slash dots and corrosive procs actually stack. Every other proc simply resets the time or reapplies the proc.

Puncture procs stack.  Easiest way to see this is to stack a bunch of Talons on an enemy and let it shoot you, vs the effect of just one or two Talons.  

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