Nerfing Telos Boltace

[Ziden_]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I'm sorry, I don't see how you could have misread my post.

Where did I say the game was balanced, hmm?

Never. I said people want balance.

''We don't go out of our way to ask for changes to suit our style.''

I mean, blow me up and call me a giddy goat but it really really does look like you're asking for a change to suit your style.

But you would never do that, because you just said you didn't.

You're not asking for balance with the Boltace, you're being nitpicky, in the way you're trying to be cute in your response.  I never asked for a change, I gave examples for consideration, but instead people would rather complain because "oh I don't like this or that, pls change hurry."

Only you forum monkeys spam about balancing things.  You represent a very low percentage of the player base.  A player base which continues to dwindle I might add.  Wonder why.  Seeking balance in a game that was never meant to be nor ever will be balanced is plain silly.  I don't know why you can't see that, but I guess you like futile efforts.

[x4531791224]

If Telos Boltace can't use passive on fast melee

I think all syndicate melee weapon can't use too 

because this is not fair

all syndicate melee weapon has " 2 " passive

Why Telos Boltace can't use any passive on fast melee

make more good weapon can play mid or high level always better than nerf 

Edited October 21, 2016 by x4531791224

[Ziden_]

2 minutes ago, Gsterman said:

All of the syndicate weapons should have been buffed to match the Telos Boltace. A large majority of them are terrible compared to the rest of the syndicate weapons and feel super underwhelming.

The Telos Boltace are not game breaking in any way, shape or form. There was no reason for any form of nerf what-so-ever. It's a fun weapon that also happens to be really effective against enemies, that should be no excuse to cripple it. It also hampers the utility aspect of the telos boltace which was the ability to break sensor doors and crates in a wide radius very quickly.

Thank you!  Completely and totally this!

[phoboo]

I put a greater naramon lens on my telos boltace yesterday... I like the crate breaking range and applying status effect when jumping into groups. I run around using a shotgun or my synthesis scnaner with it as my main equipped weapon/item.. With this change I'll be going back to orthos prime as my main weapon (The previous longest range spin attack for breaking crates and hitting groups of enemies and an ability to break grineer door sensors with quick attack without awkward jumping) and would like my greater lens back please.

 

Edit: or put the shard spray back on the quick attack spin...

Edited October 21, 2016 by phoboo

[Jackviator]

57 minutes ago, Gsterman said:

The Telos Boltace are not game breaking in any way, shape or form.

Except the part where if you channel while using the slide attack shockwaves+ use Life Strike, you'll have your health restored without using energy, because the energy loss requires you to actually physically hit the enemy with a melee attack. So they let you have basically unlimited health, while doing a crapload of damage at the same time.

They also guarantee a slash proc whenever you hit an enemy with the shockwave, and if you have a status build you can rack up other status effects on the enemies as well. So in essence, you cause endlessly scaling finisher damage + other status effects from a maximum of 24 meters away while getting basically all of your health back for free, so long as you spin2win and channel.

Yeah. Not game breaking at all.

I think MGIBlaze said it best: "The telos boltace is like wielding a pair of boltor primes, that fire tonkors, that fire clusters of bombard missiles, as a melee weapon."

[Twilight053]

Mate, it's much less resource to nerf one weapon than buff five. It's the reality, face it.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Twilight053

[Ziden_]

 

6 hours ago, Jackviator said:

Except the part where if you channel while using the slide attack shockwaves+ use Life Strike, you'll have your health restored without using energy, because the energy loss requires you to actually physically hit the enemy with a melee attack. So they let you have basically unlimited health, while doing a crapload of damage at the same time.

They also guarantee a slash proc whenever you hit an enemy with the shockwave, and if you have a status build you can rack up other status effects on the enemies as well. So in essence, you cause endlessly scaling finisher damage + other status effects from a maximum of 24 meters away while getting basically all of your health back for free, so long as you spin2win and channel.

Yeah. Not game breaking at all.

I think MGIBlaze said it best: "The telos boltace is like wielding a pair of boltor primes, that fire tonkors, that fire clusters of bombard missiles, as a melee weapon."

Umm, you're problem is actually with primed mods, not with the weapon itself; without reach or with base reach, the boltace is just a good weapon.  You're making judgments based on mods that essentially break every weapon in the game..... I'm surprised you can't see that.  By all means, nerf everything people put primed mods on just cuz ya wanna.  See my first quote from mister ssh83.  Also, your quote is a far embellishment of what the telos boltace is without primed mods.  

[Jackviator]

12 hours ago, Ziden_ said:

Umm, you're problem is actually with primed mods, not with the weapon itself; without reach or with base reach, the boltace is just a good weapon.  You're making judgments based on mods that essentially break every weapon in the game..... I'm surprised you can't see that.  By all means, nerf everything people put primed mods on just cuz ya wanna.  See my first quote from mister ssh83.  Also, your quote is a far embellishment of what the telos boltace is without primed mods.  

"Just a good weapon" that can practically instantly heal you to full for free at any time so long as you have 1 point of energy and a basic mod you can get from any decent Hieracon run that goes on most melee weapon builds.

Plus, while primed reach does help it a lot, its basic range of 9m is beyond enough to wipe full squads with finisher damage in the average hallway tileset and make you invincible to everything save getting one-shot by a level 180+ bombard.

Yeah. Primed mods are the problem there. Sure.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Jackviator
sp.

[SolarisVentara]

3 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

For those of us who don't yet have the weapon and don't need to be misled, was the weapon nerfed or changed?

There is a difference.

It was just a change. before this patch, you could run around with your primary or secondary in hand, slide and still be able to use your slash wave while instantly going back to your gun as you got up. honestly it is a little bit broken, so in this patch they fixed this bit so that the wave only activates while you've actualy got the weapon drawn. as such is just a change, not a nerf.

[shut]

3 hours ago, x4531791224 said:

If Telos Boltace can't use passive on fast melee

I think all syndicate melee weapon can't use too 

They already can't. All of the syndicate melees whose passives give combat utility can only use their passives when equipped. The TBoltace nerf was a consistency change, not a balance change.

 

I'm super bummed since I loved spamming waves while waving a gun around, but I can see why the change was made.

[shut]

1 hour ago, SolarisVentara said:

It was just a change. before this patch, you could run around with your primary or secondary in hand, slide and still be able to use your slash wave while instantly going back to your gun as you got up. honestly it is a little bit broken, so in this patch they fixed this bit so that the wave only activates while you've actualy got the weapon drawn. as such is just a change, not a nerf.

You seem to have the mindset of "nerf" = bad, "change" = good. That's not how it works.

The TBoltace can do fewer things than it could before the update. This is a nerf by definition.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, mind you-- but it is what it is. Telling people that it's not a nerf is spreading false information.

[x4531791224]

On 2016/10/21 at 1:01 PM, SortaRandom said:

They already can't. All of the syndicate melees whose passives give combat utility can only use their passives when equipped. The TBoltace nerf was a consistency change, not a balance change.

 

I'm super bummed since I loved spamming waves while waving a gun around, but I can see why the change was made.

Actually you need see all syndicate melee have 2 skill  

like whip finisher attack speed up

you can just use fast melee to do it 

And sydon have another 50% resistance knockdown 

Is this fair ?

Just stop weird change or nerf 

Make more better game or weapon

Edited October 22, 2016 by x4531791224

[shut]

Just now, x4531791224 said:

Actually you need see all syndicate have 2 skill                                               like whip finisher attack speed up       you can just use fast melee to do it 

 

Oh, I didn't know that the Finisher speed bonus worked on the Secura Lecta while unequipped. That's cool.
Granted, though, that's literally one very situational passive out of all six syndicate weapons. I don't recall there being any other combat-utility passives that work in quick-melee.

(And sweet jesus, what on earth is with that spacing?)

[EmptyDevil]

4 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

 

Thanks, i'll add this to my nerf list.

Spoiler

JK.

Spoiler

or am i?

 

 

[Hatzeputt]

4 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

 

While I am an avid fan and user of the Atterax the Telos Boltace is just silly, properly built I can execute and chain slide/spin attacks at an absurd speed, coupled that with the "wave" aoe attack and a better basic damage type vs armour while STILL CAUSING BLEED PROCS it is so silly even a 9 year old realizes that.

Coupled with Maiming Strike it is just stupid, bringing the other syndicate melees to this level of absurdity just creates not an other power creep but a power leap. Nope even though I invested quite some time and effort into it myself I am of the opinion it needs a nerf! However DE should finally come around and grant people an remove token that removes forma and cataylists from items that received a "nerf" for reuse and some time compensation. This is common practice in 99% of the games I know and DE should finally adapt to it. This would also prevent "sh*t-storms" from even developing.        

Edited October 21, 2016 by Hatzeputt

[x4531791224]

12 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Oh, I didn't know that the Finisher speed bonus worked on the Secura Lecta while unequipped. That's cool.
Granted, though, that's literally one very situational passive out of all six syndicate weapons. I don't recall there being any other combat-utility passives that work in quick-melee.

(And sweet jesus, what on earth is with that spacing?)

Go back see what i say and sorry my bad spacing and english

[Ziden_]

2 minutes ago, x4531791224 said:

Go back see what i say and sorry my bad spacing and english

 

You speak english fine, bud.  I understood your point and thank you for sharing it.

[DoomFruit]

6 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Having to keep the weapon equipped is how every Syndicate weapon has worked, though. When I want to proc a syndicate explosion on my Scattered Justice Hek or Vaykor Marelok or Rakta Ballistica, I have to have it equipped. That isn't a nerf, but making sure it is working as intended. You shouldn't be able to proc it if it isn't equipped and it shouldn't have shipped like that.

If that's the intent, then perhaps the intent is broken. The only one of the syndicate melee which I've ever seen in actual gameplay (as opposed to 30 and dump levelling) was the teltace. Why? Because you didn't need to cripple yourself by switching to melee mode in order to take advantage of (some of) its abilities. Its damage was nowhere near as high as you could get using something like a galatine prime, nikana prime or atterax. It didn't have the sniping capabilities of a redeemer or sarpa. It wasn't a status monstrosity like the lesion.

No, what it had was utility. You could smash crates in a wide range, making it so much easier to locate medallions and sculptures. And you didn't have to sacrifice your gun to do it.

The far better option would have been to buff the other syndicate melees up to its level - by making their special functions work in normal mode. Then people might actually consider taking them instead of galatine prime all day every day. But nooooo, instead they nerfed the single solitary nice new piece of gear into mastery fodder.

It's extremely rare that I ever see someone using dedicated melee mode in gameplay unless they're standing on a pad in LoR and blocking to prevent knockdown (and why can't we block in normal mode, again?). Why? Because sacrificing your gun is a stupid idea. And that's why the syndicate melees suck. Lesion doesn't need to be held in order to turn it into a speed proc monster. Atterax doesn't need to be held in order to make everything within 10 metres bleed. Nikana prime doesn't need to be held in order to shred that one thing right in front of you. Those are how you do melee right.

[Rhekemi]

15 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

-Snip-

You make a very impassioned argument about the lack of useful content from a perspective of a player who's all out of content. Most of those points are subjective, though, so I won't comment.

On the facts, though, it's not a nerf.

It was likely never meant to proc its syndicate effect without the weapon being equipped.

We know this because no other syndicate weapon does this. Not primaries, not secondaries, not melee. None of them. It shipped broken.

Calling it a nerf is a misnomer. 

The Lesion, Atterax, and Nikana Prime are irrelevant to the Telos Boltace change. They don't have syndicate effects. Their quick melee functions work as intended.

Sancti Magistar, Vaykor Sydon, and Secura Lecta do have syndicate effects. Now the Telos Boltace is in line with them as they are all similar products. 

I will say this, though.

DE should probably give all syndicate melee weapons the ability to use their syndicate effect on quick melee and spin attacks. It was broken and unintended, but it seems to be what people want. Sometimes you just have to give in, and DE has in some similar cases before.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Ivan_Rid]

8 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

 

 

-no range decay

-almost as big of an aoe as boltace

-no need for maiming, its a crit weapon, get body count/blood rush.

-usable normally too

 

TELL

NO

ONE

 

 

Doesnt even need Body Count to outperform TBoltace, Blood Rush+Maiming Strike gets you in a range of 30k-50k damage after two or three spins.

While TBoltace forced slash proc base is 29 damage and is reduced with distance, lol.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Ivan_Rid

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, Rhekemi said:

On the facts, though, it's not a nerf.

It was likely never meant to proc its syndicate effect without the weapon being equipped.

We know this because no other syndicate weapon does this. Not primaries, not secondaries, not melee. None of them. It shipped broken.

Calling it a nerf is a misnomer.

No, it is a nerf. It's objectively worse than it was before. That's the definition of a nerf - to bring something down in power level.

[Charlitoooo]

I feel like what OP said is right. From all the syndicates melee, only the Telos Boltace is cool. I know it's easier to nerf one thing than up 5 things but. If you up 5 things, it let us the feeling we now have the choice between 6 good weapons. While if you nerf only one thing, you feel ripped off. I'll style be using Telos Boltace only for looting stuff on a room, quick search of items and kill bomber and stuff like this. So to me they didnt really nerf the thing because if you need to one shot something strong you need to go close to it. 

 

[Soketsu]

10 hours ago, Ziden_ said:

I'm extremely displeased with the decision to nerf the Telos Boltace.  Instead, why not BUFF the other syndicate weaponry, hmm?  I see a thread on this forum "how to balance the telos boltace" but why should it be balanced?  Is the tonkor balanced?  Stop taking fun things away and just put in new fun things to use.

Every game that takes the nerf hammer to things people use and find enjoyable lose its player base pretty fast.  Consider ways to buff other weaponry or find out what people like about a weapon and add similar things to other weaponry.

Cause you know, more choice make it harder for some people, the same people who still not understand that we already got  the ability to do it with other loadout

[shut]

6 hours ago, Ivan_Rid said:

While TBoltace forced slash proc base is 29 damage and is reduced with distance, lol.

Times 7 ticks. That's 203 base damage from a single slide attack (with 100% armor ignore and shield ignore, but without stacking with elemental mods) on top of dealing a solid chunk of the actual slide attack damage.
Reduced with distance, of course.

I mean, it's still not going to outdamage the Atterax (let's face it, few weapons are), but jeez, you're making it sound like the TBoltace is weak or something.

Edited October 21, 2016 by SortaRandom

[Skaleek]

16 hours ago, Ziden_ said:

Why is that a bad move?  Blizzard did it to much success, so I don't see why buffing things and bringing everything up to the highest level is wrong.  It may not fit your idea of how a game should be, but that is how successful game companies do things.

Blizzard nerfs like crazy i have no idea what you're talking about.