Sentient Concepts

[Krion112]

Alright, the next weapon:

Ajati

A unique weapon, long ago scavenged from Sentient parts during some of the most desperate times of the Old War, this body-mounted sling-shot weapon is capable of generating and lobbing highly unstable particles over extreme distances. The original, wielded by the Dax Imperator, Jau Nedes, was said to still bear the voice of its Sentient master, often being accused as being the cause for Jau's decent into madness. Superstitious types fear that fragments of that Sentient remain, haunting the remnant of weapons constructed from its bones.

 

This weapon will need some explanation: it would be a new type of primary. While it looks like a bow, you don't hold it like a bow; it actually sits, suspended in the air just off the wielder's shoulder blades. The handhelds would occupy the wielders hands, and be necessary for controlling the mechanisms, being based upon movement rather than by pressing any buttons or pulling any triggers. It would function with a charge trigger, scaling its status chance based on charge.

Unique to this weapon would be while aiming down sights, the camera centers to sit just behind and above the Warframe, with it sitting right in the middle, below the reticle.

Let me know what you think!

[Rhekemi]

I think you're definitely going to need to have a silhouette of a Tenno wielding this one. I can picture everything (including placement), but how it operates when firing.

Slingshots bring to mind one hand holding the handle, the other pulling back on the sling and projectile.

So, this would either use similar hand motions or its own unique movements. You no doubt will illustrate them, but yeah, might be a priority for folks who get confused on either image (how it's held/sits and how it operates).

That said, it looks baffling (intended/in a good way).

[Krion112]

One more weapon to go before the Crab; here's the second after the Ajati:

Dazra

The entangling tendrils from this weapon strangle and constrict their foes, offering a slow but extremely painful death. It originates from Sentient fighters which employed a similar device, which would tangle around weapons being wielded against them to be ripped from their wielder's hands. Shortly after, they would be used against their original masters. The Dazra may still be used to disarm an opponent, to wield their own weapons against them.

 

11 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I think you're definitely going to need to have a silhouette of a Tenno wielding this one. I can picture everything (including placement), but how it operates when firing.

The problem being I can't draw existing designs, I can only make new of my own. Even if I tried to draw any of these again, I would draw them different. If I can find some pre-made Excalibur silhouette, I could demonstrate it, but until then, my descriptions are all I can do.

A good suggestion, no doubt, but I just can't draw existing Warframes.

 

11 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Slingshots bring to mind one hand holding the handle, the other pulling back on the sling and projectile.

I'm actually imagining the much larger sling-shots, like the one used in the GIF where the girl tries to launch a watermelon from it and it returns to strike her in the face. So, the hand motions made would reflect grabbing a giant strap with both hands, pulling back, and then releasing. The device on the Warframe's back would reflect these motions.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Krion112

[Rhekemi]

Dazra looks nice, but function is questionable.

Is it meant to strangle/constrict enemies outright, or just remove their weapons for use? The game seems to deal in disarm chances, rather than a 100% guarantee, so I'm hoping the Darza's core function isn't to disarm because I'm not sure how that'd work.

On the silhouettes, ah, okay.

Slingshot animation makes sense.

[Krion112]

30 minutes ago, Rhekemi said:

Dazra looks nice, but function is questionable.

Is it meant to strangle/constrict enemies outright, or just remove their weapons for use? The game seems to deal in disarm chances, rather than a 100% guarantee, so I'm hoping the Darza's core function isn't to disarm because I'm not sure how that'd work.

I'm going to start leaving mechanical notes, as I suppose no matter how hard I'd try, the flavor text leaves too much to be assumed.

In any case, the Dazra constricts the target; they are unable to move or attack, but the damage dealt by the Dazra is not generally enough to kill the target. When you have an enemy constricted and use the secondary fire button, it will charge the reticle (like a charge trigger weapon), and once completed a sum of ammo is expended, the tendrils will disarm the enemy, and suspend their weapon in front of you. Using the primary trigger now will fire the weapon being suspended. You cannot reload this weapon, however it will match the scaling of the enemy that was using it, and may reflect some of the mods attached to the Dazra, such as elemental damage types.

The disarming charge-up length is dependent upon the rank of the enemy you're constricting, however it'd usually be pretty quick; disarming enemies just causes them to wield their melee weapon, so they're not necessarily at a disadvantage.

Hitting the secondary fire again while it utilizes another weapon will fling that weapon where you're currently aiming, which would deal damage to and immediately stagger anything it hits.

Anything that can't have its weapon removed (ie, Moas, Infested, etc) has its weapon disabled, forcing it into melee, while also giving the Dazra either chunks of debris that can be released like flak or the target's melee weapon, which can be flung for high damage.

It's not really focused on its disarm ability, it's more about taking from the enemy to use their own equipment against them.

[Rhekemi]

It's a linked function, though. In order to use the weapon, you've got to disarm them first, so that circles back to a guaranteed disarm.

While I personally like it, and your outline of how it will work makes sense, I'm not sure how the game would handle that.

So, I follow, and I like it. Just some minor concerns.

Spoiler

(Ushtar caught a lot of flak for guaranteed disarm and weapon acquisition. Folks felt it was overpowered. The advantage here is everyone will be able to do it, and not just one 'frame, conceptually.)

 

[Krion112]

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

It's a linked function, though. In order to use the weapon, you've got to disarm them first, so that circles back to a guaranteed disarm.

While I personally like it, and your outline of how it will work makes sense, I'm not sure how the game would handle that.

So, I follow, and I like it. Just some minor concerns.

  Reveal hidden contents

(Ushtar caught a lot of flak for guaranteed disarm and weapon acquisition. Folks felt it was overpowered. The advantage here is everyone will be able to do it, and not just one 'frame, conceptually.)

 

Thinking back on it, it does feel haphazard. I'm thinking what I'll do is make the Dazra focus upon the pinning of enemies, probably switch it so the alternative fire allows you to rip-line constricted targets for massive damage and knockdown.

I could then move the weapon acquisition disarmament to the next weapon I'm making. However, it will probably function similarly.

Here's how I caste doubt on that feedback: how precisely is disarming overpowered? Enemies can still move, attack, and utilize abilities. Especially considering that this effect can only work one target at a given time. I don't think disarming is overpowered, even if guaranteed. Loki's Radial Disarm is guaranteed, and it affects entire crowds of enemies, and there's the augment for Nyx which allows her Psychic Bolts to disarm enemies, which, again, afflicts multiple targets.

This is the way I understand it, and the stance you're bound to already know I have: Players provide simultaneously the most useful and least helpful feedback possible. Sometimes, they're on to something, but most of the time it's just a projection of their face-value understanding of game-design. As such, I highly doubt there is a problem with such a weapon. It seems more like just because we haven't seen a weapon with guaranteed disarming is what's leading to people thinking such a thing would be overpowered.

In my experience with game-design, I'd disagree, especially considering what I wanted this weapon to counter. Now, though, it's role changes, but its previous role I'm moving to the next weapon. I'll change the flavor text to reflect this, as well as create mechanical notes on each of the units and weapons so their abilities are properly conveyed.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Krion112

[Rhekemi]

Overall, I agree. In the other instance, it was likely a combination of your doubts above and the fact that the 'frame felt like it simply did too many new things. (Many of which are gone, or will be placed into augments in order to streamline/bring it in line with counterparts.)

[Xerenova]

I'm not surprise if we see this on a future prime time. (:

[Unus]

You know, while I haven't the foggiest about unit and weapon creation Sentient-wisefor, your concepts have made me brew up some "political" factions for Tau Ceti I'd like to write down at some point. Thanks for existing!

Edited October 28, 2016 by Unus
Almost tempted to ask for your artistic talent in their creation. . . but I'm not a beggar.

[Krion112]

14 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Overall, I agree. In the other instance, it was likely a combination of your doubts above and the fact that the 'frame felt like it simply did too many new things. (Many of which are gone, or will be placed into augments in order to streamline/bring it in line with counterparts.)

That was more my reasoning for wanting to move the disarming/steal enemy weapons ability to the next weapon; it was giving the Dazra too much. Now it's focused on constricting the enemy, under the idea of controlling the enemy through nullification.

In fact, I might make it so that you don't just yank enemies toward you with the alt-fire, but that you can guide their movements, sort of placing them where you want them to be. This would be useful alongside the weapon's Gas Damage, and would synergize with Warframe abilities that target individual units and then spread outward.

This ability would be more in-line with the Sentient role, and less of the Infested that just constricting an enemy might suggest.

The next weapon will come tomorrow, and will be followed by the crab, which I still have yet to name formally.

 

14 hours ago, -Unscripted- said:

I'm not surprise if we see this on a future prime time. (:

Perhaps, but that's not really my purpose. Either way, thanks for the confidence!

 

12 hours ago, Unus said:

You know, while I haven't the foggiest about unit and weapon creation Sentient-wisefor, your concepts have made me brew up some "political" factions for Tau Ceti I'd like to write down at some point. Thanks for existing!

Thanks! And good luck to you and your ideas.

[Unus]

1 minute ago, Krion112 said:

That was more my reasoning for wanting to move the disarming/steal enemy weapons ability to the next weapon; it was giving the Dazra too much. Now it's focused on constricting the enemy, under the idea of controlling the enemy through nullification.

In fact, I might make it so that you don't just yank enemies toward you with the alt-fire, but that you can guide their movements, sort of placing them where you want them to be. This would be useful alongside the weapon's Gas Damage, and would synergize with Warframe abilities that target individual units and then spread outward.

This ability would be more in-line with the Sentient role, and less of the Infested that just constricting an enemy might suggest.

The next weapon will come tomorrow, and will be followed by the crab, which I still have yet to name formally.

 

Perhaps, but that's not really my purpose. Either way, thanks for the confidence!

 

Thanks! And good luck to you and your ideas.

Nonono, thank YOU sir, filled up quite a bit a my mental portfolio with assorted goodies I'd love to chuck into the Pit! The Miltquitque, the Teocuitlatl Coconeh and the Tocoltzitzhuan owe you their entire existences!

[superGeco20]

I think people would hate you if you made a unit that nullified and pulled and adapted to damage. Although omg all of these concepts are so great good job!

[Krion112]

The last before the crab:

Ketu

Blade-masters across the Orokin Empire grasped this weapon against their Sentient nemesis. Revered for its relentless blades, it caused great anguish for its foes, even being known for turning them against one another. When the empire came to an end, it was believed that this weapon, wielded by a fierce Tenno, silenced the last of the Orokin, symbolizing the method by which they turned. Like a fallen star, the Orokin Empire fizzled out with but a whimper.

 

I know it's not the disarming weapon that's been separated from the Dazra, but I just ultimately couldn't think of what way to demonstrate that weapon. I'll think on it more, and it'll probably come soon after the crab. Anyway, the crab will probably be done either tomorrow or the day after.

 

19 hours ago, superGeco20 said:

I think people would hate you if you made a unit that nullified and pulled and adapted to damage. Although omg all of these concepts are so great good job!

Arguably, a lot of players just perceive the game in way that is sort of a distorted reflection of what the game-developers intend. I don't think nullification is bad, unless everything you can do is nullified simultaneously. No unit here can do that. But, I've tried to take great care in keeping the player perspective in mind.

Anyway, greatly appreciated!

Edited October 30, 2016 by Krion112

[Iccotak]

These are fantastic

[Unus]

You know, you got me thinking, have you read the description for the original sentient bots? I wonder if you could make something off their old design?

[Scharkie]

Cant describe how much I like your translation of the sentient style, cant wait to see what you come up with next.

[Rhekemi]

On 10/24/2016 at 11:58 AM, Krion112 said:

 

Dazra

The venomous ether emitted from this weapon constricts its victims, slowly suffocating them while an unnatural paralysis sets in. It was known in the age of the Orokin for tormenting treacherous spies, influenced by the Sentient to divulge the Orokin's secrets, as well as being used to 'inspire' soldiers to keep fighting. It wasn't long before the Sentient reclaimed this device, eventually outfitting some of its own fragments to utilize its effects against entrenched Orokin forces, paralyzing them, and then promptly executing them without reprisal.

• Wrist-Mounted Sidearm
• Focus on Gas Damage
• Targets afflicted by its ether tendrils are paralyzed, rendered unable to move or attack
• However, it deals very little damage on its own.
• The Secondary trigger can be used to rip-line your current target to you, dealing high damage at the cost of high ammo consumption.

I think the tonfas re fine, but but this one's still struggling. 

Are you going for control or support?

If support, constricting an enemy should produce a buff of some kind (since it does no damage without the rip-line) to go along with the lore that it was made to help divulge secrets.

I suppose it's fine if it's control, but it feels like something's lacking or missing--not necessarily the disarm, because it's actually redundant with a paralyzed enemy.

[Unus]

4 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

I think the tonfas re fine, but but this one's still struggling. 

Are you going for control or support?

If support, constricting an enemy should produce a buff of some kind (since it does no damage without the rip-line) to go along with the lore that it was made to help divulge secrets.

I suppose it's fine if it's control, but it feels like something's lacking or missing--not necessarily the disarm, because it's actually redundant with a paralyzed enemy.

   An affinity bonus of sorts? Who said the secrets had to be verbal? Could be, because the weapon's were madea Occulyst fragments, the device simply rips information straight from the body of the afflicted. The paralysis could simply be the moment where, temporarily, all conscious thought is channeled towards the wielder out of the afflicted. Need to know if someone committed a war crime? Just crack this puppy over their head and walk around in their shoes for a bit mentally speaking. Guilty or no, it'll be quite the learning experience.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Unus

[Krion112]

4 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Are you going for control or support?

I'm fairly certain the Sentient are of the Control role, and therefore that is the role I'm going for. The sub-category of Control that the first set of weapons (ie, the Ajati, the Dazra, and the Chakram) were all going for is Nullification; Disable the Enemy. Nullification is the Flexible variant of Control, so it's intended to have many options.

The Ajati knocks down enemies with its full-charge strike, even after punching through them (if you have it modded for punch-through, that is, as it doesn't have it by default). Being knocked down prevents the enemy from acting.

The Chakram nullifies by adapting to damage while blocking, and eliminates the threat of Auras, which reflects its more flexible nature as being a thrown melee, as it does go into the precision side of Control, which is Subversion.

The Dazra strangles its foes, keeping them from fighting or fleeing. Its alternate fire forces them closer to you, possibly even killing them. It has some support utility, as you could lock down a specific enemy to be eliminated by other Tenno, or rip-lining an enemy to you to be finished off is another support utility, but ultimately it's main premise is to disable the enemy. 

In hind-sight, all three of these weapons seem to reflect a Cooperative Nullification Control role, being highly effective at enacting synergy alongside their main functions. If you do have any suggestions that coincide with this philosophy, I'm all ears, but so far I feel like each weapon so far is, at least, reasonably designed.

 

21 hours ago, Iccotak said:

These are fantastic

Thanks!

 

8 hours ago, Unus said:

I wonder if you could make something off their old design?

There's not really a reason to, at least for the purpose of what I'm doing here. I'm really only elaborating on Sentient related devices that may potentially have been in use during the Old War and after, not from the conception of the Sentient to begin with.

I suppose I might, but only if I had reason to suspect that the pre-cognizant Sentient had their parts utilized by the Orokin, after constructing the Solar Rail to foreign solar systems, because then there could be 'prime' variants, or at least I would perceive it to be like that. But, right now, I'm only focused on what we've experienced so far.

 

5 hours ago, Scharkie1333 said:

Cant describe how much I like your translation of the sentient style, cant wait to see what you come up with next.

Greatly appreciated!

 

 

[Rhekemi]

2 hours ago, Krion112 said:

I'm fairly certain the Sentient are of the Control role, and therefore that is the role I'm going for. The sub-category of Control that the first set of weapons (ie, the Ajati, the Dazra, and the Chakram) were all going for is Nullification; Disable the Enemy. Nullification is the Flexible variant of Control, so it's intended to have many options.

The Ajati knocks down enemies with its full-charge strike, even after punching through them (if you have it modded for punch-through, that is, as it doesn't have it by default). Being knocked down prevents the enemy from acting.

The Chakram nullifies by adapting to damage while blocking, and eliminates the threat of Auras, which reflects its more flexible nature as being a thrown melee, as it does go into the precision side of Control, which is Subversion.

The Dazra strangles its foes, keeping them from fighting or fleeing. Its alternate fire forces them closer to you, possibly even killing them. It has some support utility, as you could lock down a specific enemy to be eliminated by other Tenno, or rip-lining an enemy to you to be finished off is another support utility, but ultimately it's main premise is to disable the enemy. 

In hind-sight, all three of these weapons seem to reflect a Cooperative Nullification Control role, being highly effective at enacting synergy alongside their main functions. If you do have any suggestions that coincide with this philosophy, I'm all ears, but so far I feel like each weapon so far is, at least, reasonably designed.

Noted, and nope. No suggestions. Do you, bro.

[superGeco20]

On 10/30/2016 at 8:30 AM, Krion112 said:

The last before the crab:

Ketu

Blade-masters across the Orokin Empire grasped this weapon against their Sentient nemesis. Revered for its relentless blades, it caused great anguish for its foes, even being known for turning them against one another. When the empire came to an end, it was believed that this weapon, wielded by a fierce Tenno, silenced the last of the Orokin, symbolizing the method by which they turned. Like a fallen star, the Orokin Empire fizzled out with but a whimper.

 

I know it's not the disarming weapon that's been separated from the Dazra, but I just ultimately couldn't think of what way to demonstrate that weapon. I'll think on it more, and it'll probably come soon after the crab. Anyway, the crab will probably be done either tomorrow or the day after.

 

Arguably, a lot of players just perceive the game in way that is sort of a distorted reflection of what the game-developers intend. I don't think nullification is bad, unless everything you can do is nullified simultaneously. No unit here can do that. But, I've tried to take great care in keeping the player perspective in mind.

Anyway, greatly appreciated!

I do agree that just plain corpus or corrupt nullifiers are very easy to kill but if it was a sentient unit that are considerably harder to kill along with being able to adapt to damage. Especially if the player is new to fighting sentients then these would be almost impossible to defeat along with all of the other abilities sentience have and the high-ish level enemies that are there at the mission where sentients spawn good bye it was fun Krion. 

 

,Geco