Dev Stream 82: Endless Relic missions feedback

[VonDodo]

16 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

You do realize that everyone on the forums is a vocal minority, right?

a representative minority.

The actual minority that cares about the game enough to take the time to post on the forum hoping to see the game improved, opposed to the majority that will jump to the next MMO after a few months.

 

 

P.S. endless missions if i understood correctly will just have the option to add a relic per round?

If so it won't solve the long struggle to find radiant teams and will be ignored due to the fact there is no reason to not exit and repeat.

Look at how credit farm works and you get an idea on what will happen.

Edited October 31, 2016 by VonDodo

[Warlord1400]

How about you can get multiple rewards the more you refine a relic?

Flawless gets increased rare drop chance, Exceptional gets 1 extra drop with increased rare drop chance, Radiant gets 2 extra drops with increased rare drop chance. It makes refining more viable and relics more efficient. It's good in my book!

The only bad thing about the relic system is ducat farming, and my solution should help it!

p.s they should make formas 50 ducats lol

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

18 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Which was?

 

19 hours ago, (PS4)Tenchi145 said:

Are you sure about that? I'm as liberal as they come but with the list of demands that the playerbase keeps throwing out this equates to more time spent in the office which means overtime and more compensation for time spent. More DDoS attacks equates to needing more secure servers.

^THIS^

[GiR8Tacos]

Because I don't need to farm anything, I just miss the endless game types. That's all I used to play aside from raids.

[TheSteelRat]

I still don't think DE understands that in the Old VOid key system the "Endless" keys were great sources of Ducats.  Now with the new relic system no matter the mission we can only get one prime part per relic.

It also seems that the only advantage of going 60 waves in a defense, is the possibility of more traces then if you only did 5 waves.  Why can't DE relize that we want MULTIPLE prime parts from a SINGLE relic to make it the same as the only system

[BornWithTeeth]

"Endless Void wasn't about getting extra loot, it was about the challenge and the camaraderie."

Endless Void is still there, and DE are proposing to make endless Fissure missions in any tileset drop an increased number of Void traces while cracking multiple Relics per mission. What's the problem?

"Ok, maybe it is about getting extra loot."

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[Minion135]

I'm inclined to agree that this is not a good improvement, only because they also made it so every new prime needs a new relic. No re-usability from our old relics for getting new stuff. The old system was nice because you already had keys from x missions, then you just had to run them. I had TONS of keys, so I rarely needed to farm for them. Not only that, but new rewards could be added into existing keys by altering drop tables. I prefer this to the new way, personally. The new way can be nice in that it theoretically makes it so stuff won't need to be vaulted anymore, but to my understand Primes will still be getting vaulted (and have been un-vaulted then re-vaulted since Relics), making it kind of a moot point since it's not being used like this.

[PossiblyMG]

22 hours ago, Chipputer said:

more effort

Effort =/= time-consuming. There is no effort in doing level 1-40 missions over and over and over again, just like there is no effort in doing a 10-hour Mot survival. It's about how much patience you have, not how much effort you put in it

[Fast_98]

13 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

"Endless Void wasn't about getting extra loot, it was about the challenge and the camaraderie."

Endless Void is still there, and DE are proposing to make endless Fissure missions in any tileset drop an increased number of Void traces while cracking multiple Relics per mission. What's the problem?

"Ok, maybe it is about getting extra loot."

 

 

 

Yeah it there alright but why would I do it for the challenge when the 60 minute reward is is the same as the 5 min reward (see the problem, similar to credit farms). Plus who care about traces when I can go into any relic farm without  relic and farm them for free?Maybe you don't Iike but other did it because it was fun for them and of course people need to feel like rewarded who play anything if not for reward. Void 2.0 is good in my opinion but one of it problem is how constricted it is. In only 2 games modes (cap & ecterminate) can I find a group of relic user,  try to find group to do a survival or defense (answer: no one). Plus have you tried to find a group trying to farm something that not the newest prime? Have fun spending a hour in recruiting tab finding people to do a 3 minute mission.

[NekroArts]

22 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Because we never had people bail on their turn to share their key in the past, or anything.

 

6 hours ago, Tizodd said:

Might wanna lookup sarcasm :)

Whoops my bad; very hard for me to detect sarcasm from reading :P

[Ailissa]

1 hour ago, GiR8Tacos said:

Because I don't need to farm anything, I just miss the endless game types. That's all I used to play aside from raids.

How can you miss what is still there?

 

I keep seeing people say they don't play them for the rewards yet the endless missions are still available, they haven't gone anywhere.

 

Here is the problem and why I said several times that people are lying. Hardly anybody does them because there is no point. No rewards, no run. So those that say "I did it for fun" are talking bubbles or they would still be doing them. 

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Ailissa said:

How can you miss what is still there?

 

I keep seeing people say they don't play them for the rewards yet the endless missions are still available, they haven't gone anywhere.

 

Here is the problem and why I said several times that people are lying. Hardly anybody does them because there is no point. No rewards, no run. So those that say "I did it for fun" are talking bubbles or they would still be doing them. 

LOL.  I totally agree with everything you said Ailissa.  The hypocrisy in some forum statements just have me laughing.  I'm glad that I'm not the only one to notice this. 

[(PSN)Tenchi145]

28 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

How can you miss what is still there?

 

I keep seeing people say they don't play them for the rewards yet the endless missions are still available, they haven't gone anywhere.

 

Here is the problem and why I said several times that people are lying. Hardly anybody does them because there is no point. No rewards, no run. So those that say "I did it for fun" are talking bubbles or they would still be doing them. 

I agree with this because I still run my survivals of 40 mins on Uranus both Ophilia and the DS Survival. Basically with Naramon now that I have it fully maxed. (Thanks Double Affinity weekend and Trick or Treat Affinity Booster.) 

It's not a challenge to stay past 40 as long as I remember to bring a high crit weapon but my finger gets tired of the constant button mashing.

[erny0507]

For me the relics system is boring, one of the most boring things in this game next to scanning for moss, the main problem they have is picking up the reactant becomes tedious superfast. Picking up stuff from the floor was already agreed at being a bad mechanic (Vacuum within) and  reminds me the quote "I want to play to be space ninja no space janitor" or something like that.

For me the proposed system is bad, having to pick up every single relic kills the pace and picking up the reactant is even worse. More traces is good but is kinda not enough really. Endless missions like the old void were fun, increasing enemy level,  and good rewards (a lot of items at the end of the mission), the most close thing is Hieracon and I enjoyed a lot, but then I realized that stacking relics are not enough to play it more cause cant bring myself to open one or two and then go back to farm something else.

What would make it appeal to me, would be choose a pile of relics and open them as the mission goes, just once the reactant and let me enjoy trying to survive a rocket to the face from a high level bombard without none stop. Maybe at the end of the mission open the relics and choose the rewards one by one  but not every 5mins/wave. The game would say in the UI, n relics ready to open.  

Could be many ways to achieve this, putting the relics in a queue manually at the start or from the relics module (something like in case of endless mission order you prefer relics to be chosen), or the game just choose the relic that I have the most.

The adicional traces on top of that would make it even better.

In this way endless  would be for ducats farm or traces farm and the non endless missions for especific rewards, cause lets face it, the relic share requieres a lot of attention because one always has to be carefull in not getting scammed. Plus if you have tons of radiants relics with very good friends you could open them if you want.

Edited October 31, 2016 by erny0507

[Vaizrin]

No clue if this was said but I'm saying it again regardless.

All the old players hated the endless system because it would loop AABC every time. Now they got rid of that system, let you pick from 1 of 4 items, and people are still complaining. This new system is amazing as you always get to pick your loot table and with how easy it is to get relics I very rarely run into any problems on the supply side.

This is coming from a player struggling to get any kind of significant amount of nitain because of how little I play.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Vaizrin said:

No clue if this was said but I'm saying it again regardless.

All the old players hated the endless system because it would loop AABC every time. Now they got rid of that system, let you pick from 1 of 4 items, and people are still complaining. This new system is amazing as you always get to pick your loot table and with how easy it is to get relics I very rarely run into any problems on the supply side.

This is coming from a player struggling to get any kind of significant amount of nitain because of how little I play.

Because that was never, ever what it was about. Ever. Endless Void was purely about trying to squeeze as many random Prime bits out of each key as was possible, using the cheesiest tactics possible, and then flogging them all for Ducats, unless you got a rare piece which could be sold for Plat on trade chat.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

It is not even endless, just a glorified bypass of load screens. (The developer proposed idea)

Edited October 31, 2016 by Viedra_Lavinova

[artemisfortune]

I disagree with everything you've said. Picking stuff up takes no time at all, and often I pick up most of my reactant accidentally. The proposed system can't  be bad because you haven't used it yet. You could theorize, but all we've seen is WIP stuff. On top of that, the relic system works well, and allows for truly endless play, which is what people begged for. Ducats and Traces shouldn't be farmed in just one mission type over and over, and the relic system is a step towards moving away from that mentality. Instead of letting the game play for you, you actually have to put effort into playing the game.

Edited October 31, 2016 by JSharpie

[Chity]

I miss old void. Endless t4 int or survival were why I played warframe, now I can't find that spark. 

[erny0507]

Just now, JSharpie said:

I disagree with everything you've said. Picking stuff up takes no time at all, and often I pick up most of my reactant accidentally. The proposed system can't  be bad because you haven't used it yet. Sorry let me correct myself, The shown system seems bad. You could theorize, but all we've seen is WIP stuff. On top of that, it works well, and allows for truly endless play, which is what people begged for. Ducats and Traces shouldn't be farmed in just one mission type over and over, and the relic system is a step towards moving away from that mentality. Instead of letting the game play for you, you actually have to put effort into playing the game. I dont know what are you talking about, your "actually effort" seems choosing things each wave/5min ?  

 

[Epilogia]

When I saw the DevStream, I was thinking the same. It's not the same endless as it used to be, it's not worth doing at all. It stops the fast-paced action, we literally stop for 35 seconds to choose a new relic and a reward. In that time, I could just get out, and start it over.
Also: why would I do this endless mission, if it doesn't offer anything over a regular mission? Doing an Exterminate or Capture mission is 10× faster than this, and even if we get more Traces in the endless mission, it's still not worth doing it, because we can get 2-3 Relics open in the same time, and get more Traces with that.
 

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

I disagree with everything you've said. Picking stuff up takes no time at all, and often I pick up most of my reactant accidentally. The proposed system can't  be bad because you haven't used it yet. You could theorize, but all we've seen is WIP stuff. On top of that, it works well, and allows for truly endless play, which is what people begged for. Ducats and Traces shouldn't be farmed in just one mission type over and over, and the relic system is a step towards moving away from that mentality. Instead of letting the game play for you, you actually have to put effort into playing the game.

We didn't beg for Endless missions. We are begging for Endless missions that are WORTH doing. Huge difference.
We still have Endless missions across the star-chart, but all of them are completely useless, worthless. They give nothing other than Relics, but I can do Relic farming on Hieracon as well.

[artemisfortune]

@erny0507 You have to at least pick up the reactant and do the mission, not just run defense over and over running some nuke frame.

[erny0507]

Just now, JSharpie said:

@erny0507 You have to at least pick up the reactant and do the mission, not just run defense over and over running some nuke frame.

That what i said, pick up the reactant once, and keep doing the mission and also the fact that i would use a nuke frame like i only did speed runs or something is very wrong used, like for everyone, it even feels offensive really. I dont want to pick those things not cause i would speed run it, no, i dont like it cause is boring and tedious.

[Epilogia]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

@erny0507 You have to at least pick up the reactant and do the mission, not just run defense over and over running some nuke frame.

I can just use a nuke-frame and pick-up the reactant while running through an Exterminate mission. Faster and easier than the new 'endless' Relic mission. So why would I do it?
Why would I choose the new proposed endless mission, over an easy mission that is a guaranteed win? What's the point of doing an endless mission, if it gets harder for no better rewards?

[Chipputer]

2 hours ago, Maseguad_il_Belo said:

Effort =/= time-consuming. There is no effort in doing level 1-40 missions over and over and over again, just like there is no effort in doing a 10-hour Mot survival. It's about how much patience you have, not how much effort you put in it

It's a comparative statement.

It is objectively more effort to do a mission for a relic, missions for void traces, and then do the run that you're looking for than it was to do a mission for a key and then run the key.

While I appreciate semantics, they don't hinder the point I was making.