Dev Stream 82: Endless Relic missions feedback

[Duavey]

I get to pick 1 of 4 guaranteed prime parts or forma every 5 waves instead of getting Orokin cells or uncommon fusion cores. I'll settle. 

[DesuTronic]

1 minute ago, Duavey said:

I get to pick 1 of 4 guaranteed prime parts or forma every 5 waves instead of getting Orokin cells or uncommon fusion cores. I'll settle. 

You can do that now as well... Just do a capture mission which is even faster than 5 waves of def

[(PSN)robotwars7]

what I don't get (and feel free to correct me here in case I'm missing something) is how will more void Traces be an incentive to stay longer in endless? what reason will players have once they reach the max number of traces for their Mastery Rank (1150 in my case) to stay longer? people aren't going to use them on relics if they aare up to date with all the Primes, unless they either need Ducats or are trying to get a part for someone else/trading purposes. there's nothing to be gained for yourself as Void Traces are far less useful once you no longer need to relic farm.

a Solution I would propose would be fo Baro to bring exclusive cosmetics that are bought with Void traces, so those of us who have an excess can use them up, and thus give us a reason to stay for longer to get more Void traces.

as it is, the Devstream only mentions more traces as a benefit to staying longer, but is that even worth it? or does more need to be done?

[Callback]

More traces or not, there's still no incentive to do the higher tiers endless.  If the trace rewards are good people will just run 50 waves of lith to fill up or something.  It's not going to give any reason to run higher tiers.

[Callback]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

what I don't get (and feel free to correct me here in case I'm missing something) is how will more void Traces be an incentive to stay longer in endless? what reason will players have once they reach the max number of traces for their Mastery Rank (1150 in my case) to stay longer? people aren't going to use them on relics if they aare up to date with all the Primes, unless they either need Ducats or are trying to get a part for someone else/trading purposes. there's nothing to be gained for yourself as Void Traces are far less useful once you no longer need to relic farm.

a Solution I would propose would be fo Baro to bring exclusive cosmetics that are bought with Void traces, so those of us who have an excess can use them up, and thus give us a reason to stay for longer to get more Void traces.

as it is, the Devstream only mentions more traces as a benefit to staying longer, but is that even worth it? or does more need to be done?

That is a community issue tho.  People who ARE caught up on primes SHOULD be spending traces to join random radshares in recruiting chat.  Joining any old radshare is the best way to turn your traces into ducats with the near-guaranteed silver and likely gold reward.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

No, it doesn't really fix anything and is still a slave to RNG.

The only way this would work is by modifying it and combining mission types.

Example:

T3S - survival mission -  get to 15 minutes for free - then - either extract or do an assassination mission where a random star map boss is corrupted and brought in, and LS is topped off to 100%.

• If you beat them then you keep going with the same drop table and no extra key used.
• If you extract then you keep everything you have earned up until that point.
• If you die to them then you lose everything.

If you don't kill them nor extract then nothing happens, and enemies stop spawning, which has obvious problems in a survival. 

Edited October 28, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[DesuTronic]

1 minute ago, Callback said:

That is a community issue tho.  People who ARE caught up on primes SHOULD be spending traces to join random radshares in recruiting chat.  Joining any old radshare is the best way to turn your traces into ducats with the near-guaranteed silver and likely gold reward.

I already have 5k ducats just waiting to be used on something I don't already have. (and 5k isn't even much, some of my friends have like 30k)

[Xekrin]

I know we'll just have to wait and see how it works out but based on the current information given in the latest devstream pausing every 5 minutes to select a new relic in a survival sounds absolutely tedious.

The reason I love(d) survivals is the flow of it, killing endlessly, moving from room to room with none of those silly pauses that happen in defense and interceptions.  It is just a constant flow of enemies getting ever stronger.

This whole concept of every 5 minutes we get a freeze of action to select another relic just sounds like it will break precisely what I enjoy(ed) most about survivals. 

The biggest issue I've always had with defense and even interception is that the enemies stop then restart after each rotation.  I've even went so far as suggesting this time delay between rotations in defense be greatly reduced or eliminated altogether and was met with flames galore every time.  Now it appears the same tedium will occur in survivals as well and this does not sit well with me at all.

I like the idea of getting extra primes + the rotation rewards, I really do but I'm not sure this is the solution to making survivals good again.

I'd even go so far as suggesting there be an option to automatically have it randomly choose amongst a pre-selected pool of relics so that the flow goes uninterrupted for survival.  This new system (I guess) works perfectly for defense/interception, as there are (unfortunately) natural stops between rotations.  This is not the case for survivals and that needs to be taken into consideration I think.

While endless missions are revised though I really think the reward system needs looked into as well.  As many have likely already mentioned, getting the same chance at rotational rewards regardless of time spent (be it 20 minutes or 40 or 60) is also and has always been a big issue.

I'm unclear if this new endless system plans on boosting trace amounts per relic but that would be a great idea.  Such as doubling/tripling the traces per relic every C rotation for example.

A small chance that the relic isn't destroyed every rotation wouldn't be terrible either.

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by Xekrin

[Xzorn]

If they make good on the Eximus dropping Relics idea this should already be a thing soon. Eximus spawn more heavily as enemy level scales, often to the point you're fighting 4-5 at a time.

The only real problem I see with this system is our limited supply of traces. It would be really lame to leave a mission because you ran out of upgraded Relics or hit your traces cap and that seems to be an inevitable situation.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

3 hours ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

This means an hour into an endless survival you will have a 6% increase.

Not even close to being worth it. It would still be more efficient to extract at the soonest point and just redo the mission.

[Midrib]

Did you really need to make a new thread just for this post? Like there's a thread literally on the front page about the same exact topic.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

9 minutes ago, Callback said:

That is a community issue tho.  People who ARE caught up on primes SHOULD be spending traces to join random radshares in recruiting chat.  Joining any old radshare is the best way to turn your traces into ducats with the near-guaranteed silver and likely gold reward.

while being a good Samaritan and offering up radiant relics isn't the worst idea, I'm more of a solo type person. and then what would I do with them once I'm bored of Keyshares, or if I run out of relics that have High-demand rare parts? Ducats and Primes are out of the question, as I have them. the only way  someone like me, who has acquired all he wants would do anything with void traces is if they could be exchanged for something unique.

it's not like these items would be out of reach for newer players either, as there's nothing to stop them running Lith Keys with randoms and using their traces if they so choose. it also makes sense for a person known as the "Void Trader" to use "Void Traces"; anyone who doesn't know Warframe would assume traces are Baro's currency by name alone. plus it would alleviate the salt of Baro bringing the same stock for those rich in Ducats and Credits. I honestly don't think there's a downside to this.

Edited October 28, 2016 by (PS4)robotwars7

[Xekrin]

1 minute ago, Midrib said:

Did you really need to make a new thread just for this post? Like there's a thread literally on the front page about the same exact topic.

I looked and saw no such thread about survivals, feel free to link it and I will request it be merged.

[Midrib]

Its 1 part per key and I don't think DE is going to change that, Hopefully there is a better reward other than traces, But multiple parts per key is not going to happen, specially when you can upgrade relics to radiant.

[Midrib]

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

I looked and saw no such thread about survivals, feel free to link it and I will request it be merged.

The thread addresses all the concerns about all endless modes whether its survival or defense, You can easily post your concerns there.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Better Solution:

Example:

T3S - survival mission -  get to 15 minutes for free - then - either extract or do an assassination mission where a random star map boss is corrupted and brought in, and LS is topped off to 100%.

• If you beat them then you keep going with the same drop table and no extra key used.
• If you extract then you keep everything you have earned up until that point.
• If you die to them then you lose everything.

If you don't kill them nor extract then nothing happens, and enemies stop spawning, which has obvious problems in a survival. 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Ailissa]

3 hours ago, (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan said:

However that's not how the community wants it.

Some of the community don't want endless back at all.

 

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I love the slaughter too, but sometimes you gotta take a second to catch your breath, you know; killing is exhausting work.

on a serous note, this won't affect regular survivals so no worries there. I would suggest a "preferred relic" system:

before the game, when you are prompted to select a relic, you are met with 4 slots for relics. you put the relic you want for wave 5 minutes in the first slot. then you put what relic you want for 10 in the second, third for the relic you want at 15, and the last for good old rotation C at 20 mins. you would predetermine the relics before the game, then the rewards are doled out accordingly for as long as you survive. you would choose the rewards, then work for them. you wouldn't even have to fill all the slots, so if you only have 5 minutes to break open your best Radiant Axi, you could do that. want only a couple relics at the longer milestones? you can do that.

let me know what you think anyway, I reckon it could work.

 

[Urlan]

1 minute ago, Ailissa said:

Some of the community don't want endless back at all.

 

 

Yet they still do it, more than before; to get their relics. Considering the number of players that logged on and then left with Specters of the Rails, it would be wise to at least consider that quite a few players liked endless missions giving chances at multiple rewards versus one chance at a better rarity if you have a full team willing and able to gather those same relics at their best upgrade rating.

The problem for many players is a lack of reward for the time put in. For many it seems, that was represented by Endless void missions.

[Ailissa]

Just now, Urlan said:

The problem for many players is a lack of reward for the time put in.

The problem for some of us was we only ran them for the rewards, not because they were fun.

 

It killed our enjoyment of the game. The endless grind caused me to leave the game for well over a year. I only came back because I heard it was gone and the new fissure missions were back.

 

You say they still run them yet many people avoid endless missions. 

[Kaiser_Suoh]

Bad idea.

All players will be able to do that?

I mean, will be optional? what if one player dont want to equip the relic? he will be kicked? or he can help without any reward? that is some...

Prepare yourself to 3 people using "common" relics when 1 is using "rare" relic, and then, 4 common relics... no rewarding mission... people leaving

D-I-S-A-P-P-O-I-N-T-E-D

Edited October 29, 2016 by Kaiser_Suoh

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

There really isn't any point, at least not in the way they presented it.

[Urlan]

1 minute ago, Ailissa said:

The problem for some of us was we only ran them for the rewards, not because they were fun.

 

It killed our enjoyment of the game. The endless grind caused me to leave the game for well over a year. I only came back because I heard it was gone and the new fissure missions were back.

 

You say they still run them yet many people avoid endless missions. 

Without hitting them they have trouble running relics and fissures then. That said, I agree, at least after a fashion. That would be another issue that was supposed to be addressed with Specters of the Rails; that the standard starchart has little to no reward for playing it. Endless missions are still the only reliable manner to get relics just as they were for void keys. If its a matter of enemies, corrupted are still spawned in fissures. Instead what was changed is the background decor and how much more/less work you have to do to get and use relics.

One of the improvements of the system is giving players more agency - even though small - over their drops. The second is the codex now listing in-game where to find the relics and what they might drop. These were not options before. The problem is the cost for this is increased grind and that more than anything else from allies and others that have quit Warframe is why they left. A feeling that there isn't anything rewarding left to do. Going back, we hit void endless missions before as they represented the repeatable rewards for continuing to play; fissures now occupy that space, but do they really do it well? I feel no, but for some that agency and forced sharing environment make up for it.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

3 hours ago, Doc-Orange said:

Once there were meaningful endless game modes. This was kind of endgame, too. Then DE changed this. The result is this http://steamcharts.com/app/230410

Acctually DE is thinking that the player loss comes from the wait for TTW. It will be soon very clear that the loss of players comes from the loss of meaningful reasons to play for long time periods and test your Warframe in endless missions.

There will be a increase of players with the TTW and this will last only for a short time. After this - and not earlier - DE will focus on meaningful endgame.

 

Yep. You are right. I played Warframe 2 years straight without playing any other games. I've clocked 3800 hrs. When I stop playing a game it is usually when I am sure I am calling it quits and my gaming attention will be redirected else where. For the first time after starting Warframe 2 years ago, a few days ago I got a new game. I won't say what it is but but I will say that DE pretty much forced me to do it. So much about the game has changed in the past 2 years. The bad outweighs the good by a wide margin. TWW will come and I will no longer be interested in Warframe. DE messed up big time after SOTR imo.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

5 hours ago, (XB1)FingerFlikenBoy said:

Yeah, I agree but at least they're taking a step in the right direction. 

Sounds like a walk in the same direction.