The Second Stream Podcast: Endless Relics, Fortress Assault, Enemy Armor, & More

[EyeLaikCheez]

Are you interested in playing longer endless Fissure missions when they'll allow additional Relic unlocks and Trace?

The whole concept is flawed in my opinion. When players asked for endless missions they didn't mean that they wanted to spend 2 relics in 1 game. We want 1 relic for 1 game and as many rewards we can possibly get. I realize that this wouldn't work too well with the current system given that players could easily farm rare parts with 1 radiant relic over and over again. What I propose is to give players rewards only at the 10 minute mark in survivals (or whatever that is in waves) and to make it so as time progresses the probability of you getting a rare part increases. Basically, the way endless missions would work with my system is simple, time would act as void tears giving players a reason to stay for 10 more minutes and not just abandon on the 10 minute mark. (Players with already refined relics would start from the beginning or wave 1 with an increases chance of getting the rare part of course)

 

*Also, the probability would increase at a slow rate like, for example, +0.05% for 20min, +0.1% for 30min, +0.15% for 40min and so on.

How often do you use Corrosive Projection instead of other Aura mods?

Honestly I use Corrosive Projection often but I also use Energy Siphon, Steel Charge, Rush (Or Sprint? I'm not really sure about the name)

I'm just going to say this because I have a bad feeling: Please do not nerf any of these mods.

The fact that people use them means you did a good job, so instead of nerfing them I suggest you add new auras that are equally good.

Edited October 31, 2016 by EyeLaikCheez

[Kinperor]

I don't like the idea for more relics in endless missions.

Players like me want:

• to get greater odds at rare stuff based on time/effort spent.
  • difficulty and time spent goes up
  • reward rarity goes up too

What this system suggest:

• a new dice roll mid mission
  • difficulty and time spent goes up
  • reward rarity stays the same

As far as I am concerned, this solves nothing, at the very best we save a couple of minutes from leaving and entering mission again.

I believe that a rarity multiplier (scaling with time spent) or a "2 for 1" reroll system would be better.

---

 

This is a problem with almost every loot aspect of the game I can think of.

• Scavenger builds require more time to get less reward than what the mission offer.
  • Having played with scavenger on my Smeeta for a while, I can say that I have almost never contributed significantly to our team. Credit gains are drops in the bucket, Ayatan stars drop very rarely from lockers, doubly so with unlocked lockers.
  • It is my honest belief that drops from unlocked lockers could be outright doubled or tripled, and still be balanced.
• Endless mission offers equal or lesser rewards over time.
  • Before the leaper Endo drop was nerfed, we used to play Valma up to 80 minutes (no cheese), but upon observing our endo output, we calculated that it stopped being efficient to go farther than 25 minutes.
  • Excavation have a better output of Endo when you do runs that stop at 2 excavators.
  • There is little to no risk/reward dilemmas in endless. I just don't see it anywhere I go.
• Lower level missions are better for farming.
  • Higher kill output means higher resource output. It's better to go in a lower mission and kill loads of enemies than going in a higher mission with nearly equal drops of resources which require more work to get.

Sorry, that is not exactly on subject but it's a pet peeve of mine.

[OniDax]

1) Commenting on Fortress Assault, I'd definitely like for a long 20+ minute mission, but I don't want to do a 20-minute stealth mission. Why? Because Warframe fails at stealth. The game simply doesn't have the right mechanics for successfully pulling off stealth gameplay. There's no cover mechanic, which successful stealth games have. The AI isn't really programmed for stealth (a big part of that requires AI to have specific patrol paths). So I don't want to do a 20-minute stealth mission in Warframe. In a game series like Splinter Cell or Ghost Recon or Assassin's Creed? Yeah, because those games know how to do stealth. Warframe? No.

2) Next, the name "Fortress Assault". A stealth mission where you're infiltrating and sneaking around and sabotaging stuff isn't really an assault. Some of the objectives could be part of an assault, but Fortress Assault, as what we saw during the devstream, isn't an assault. One, an assault should be larger. You should have some friendly NPCs with you. Second, it should be the first part of a larger operation. IMO, it should be a three stage mission that begins with you disabling defenses, and then proceeds with an actual invasion of the fortress. The core of the problem, imo, is this: Fortress Assault isn't a multi-objective mission. It's just one three-part objective. When certain players were asking you guys to make multi-objective missions, those players had in mind having three distinct, separate objectives (i.e. sabotage this, defend that, exterminate that). Let the missions feel like actual military operations, where the various objectives work together to accomplish a goal. Take a look at Medal of Honor: Airborne and how that game tackles multi-objective operations. That's the ideal when it comes to tackling multiple objectives.

3) Last, and I hate to say this, but no one is really going to want longer missions in Warframe. Why? It's honestly quite simple. Warframe's reward system is based on loot and special end-of-mission rewards. Because that is the reward system, no one is going to want to spend longer in game unless they're periodically getting rewards throughout that mission. Because of this, there is nothing appealing about playing a long, time-consuming mission. You can make longer missions work, but that requires you to change how you reward players. Bottom line, if you want to even consider the possibility of 20+ minute missions, then you're going to have to have those missions award affinity from doing basic things like killing enemies.

Now, do I think this is a good idea? YES. Absolutely Yes. I think it would do Warframe a good deal of good if just playing the game (e.g. just killing enemies) rewarded affinity that contributed to mastery rank. In other words, allow players to gain mastery rank without having to rank up new weapons. Ranking up new weapons and frames and companions and archwings can still contribute to mastery rank, but if the base gameplay builds up mastery rank, then any mission becomes more rewarding the more you play that mission. That's the only way to provide sufficient incentive to player longer missions. It's the way other games handle rank progression systems, and it works. It's pretty much standard across most games, and it can work for Warframe.

In the context of Fortress Assault, let me explain. If you had a more straightforward/standard rank progression system, in Fortress Assault, you'd gain affinity (that awards mastery points) for killing enemies. You'd gain bonus affinity for headshots. You'd gain bonus affinity for multishots (killing multiple enemies at once). You'd gain bonus affinity for stealth kills. You'd gain bonus affinity for finishers. You'd gain bonus affinity for parkour kills. You'd gain bonus affinity for kills by your specters. You'd gain bonus affinity for kills by your teammates. You'd gain bonus affinity for kills by your companions. You'd gain affinity for using your powers on enemies. You'd gain affinity for hacking consoles. You'd gain bonus affinity for not using a cipher. You'd gain bonus affinity based on how quickly you solved the hacking puzzle. You'd gain affinity for completing objectives, such as successful defending the defense object and for sabotaging something and for retrieving spy data, etc. You'd gain bonus affinity for kills made within a certain radius of the defense object. You'd gain affinity for each time mark passed during a survival. If you play the game, you're gaining affinity. This way, everyone's gaining affinity all the time. Now, you can gain that affinity more quickly by maxing out items, but you're going to be rewarded by playing the game, which means you'll eventually be unlocking more MR-locked items and stuff. And then, you can have more than 30 Mastery Ranks because there will always be a direct path to gaining a new MR.

Now, I said in the context of Fortress Assault. In the context of this mission, in addition to gaining affinity for kills, you'd gain bonus affinity for the objectives you complete. With having several other optional objectives, you'd be able to gain bonus affinity for completing those objectives as well. Not only that, but you'd receive bonus affinity based on how quickly you complete the main objectives. And you'd still be gaining affinity for your kills. That means that the longer you're playing this mission, the more affinity you're gaining. In other words, playing for 20 minutes would be more rewarding than playing for 10 minutes. This means that long missions now become extremely rewarding, and there's now an incentive to play longer missions.

So, all of that, summed up, is this: If you want to offer long missions, you need to rework your reward system. All of the actions we take in the game, from killing enemies to hacking consoles to completing objectives, should award affinity that directly contributes to mastery rank. If rework the reward system, then the longer you play, the more affinity you gain, the more you rank up, and the more rewarding the game becomes. And that is essential if you want to provide sufficient incentive for players to play long missions.

Edited October 31, 2016 by AntoineFlemming

[Skaleek]

Gotta agree with Headshot on the armour debate. CP feels like a required aura to be competitive, and those robots in the index were WAY harder than any of the other organized corpus teams.

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, (PS4)skins0208 said:

Hope they dont nerf corrosive projection... 

Hoping they do the opposite and buff other less used auras and introduce new auras for us to use.

[Misgenesis]

1. I am not happy that endless missions would get increasingly better rewards as i find those modes to be mind numbingly boring. Theyve caused the most of my fatigue as well. 

Now of course, one could just not play them but they are more or less pressured to do so. Id like a sortie style system where we could get better rewards for more effort, not focus on endless which is just sitting around, abusing the latest trivializing builds.

[Ninja_Of_Deep_Concern]

so its endless... but theres no difference in drop chance the longer you stay from just going back to your liset at wave 5... oh I can see this mode dying completely within a week or so... thats sad

[GinKenshin]

If you wanna make endless missions worth going for higher waves/rounds, more unlocks (idk why this was mentioned) and traces isn't the answer 

 

what makes relics different than keys keys is the fact that you can upgrade them to get better rewards. That's what you should focus on, not more traces that we can easily get 

[Mister-God]

Why is there no option to select none for question 3?

That is my answer. I just selected Vor's Prize though.

[Eldnacpeek]

I never played Vor's Prize when U14 came out, and I never bothered making an alt to do so either; let's just say for now both that and the Second Dream are the only ones I plan on replaying.

[erny0507]

1. Yes. We need more rewards to make endless mission appealing, right now they are not very appealing.
2. 15 mins for non endless is fine and no more. Endless missions have the chance to let you get out if something in RL needs your attention with some rewards.
3. All really.
4. Cp has become mandatory for the community, I personally dont like to use it on frost or other wf over rejuv but people kick you out, insult you or ignore you if you dont want to use it.
5. Is very long, unnecesarylly long, also the nightmare mission enemy level dont quite match the damage output, example: the mission says on earth the mission 1-3, enemies are a least 20 and even that doesnt match they damage out. The damage is fine on itself so it just needs to clarify the actual enemy level on the node and on the enemies themselves.

[ArcusVeles]

1)  I would prefer endless missions to be tooled specifically for farming traces.  Let us throw a relic in every 5 minutes to greatly enhance our personal traces gains, at the cost of gaining nothing from the relic.  That will ensure that it is a traces-focused farming group and everyone is on the same page, instead of the inevitable bickering you will get of people not putting up relics mid-way through or trying to sneak in the wrong relic mid-run, and then not even having the recourse of leaving the group (because you'll lose what you've gotten up to that point).

2)  I don't care, so long as the rewards are worth it.  I voted 10-15 minutes mostly because I wouldn't want to be trapped in a mission for too long if they ended up toxic or awful.

3)  I don't want to replay any quests, but I know it would be better for machinima if our Youtubers can, so I'm all for it being in the game.

4)  I use CP on everything.  It enhances all damage done by all allies and powers, against the tankiest enemies in the game (HG's, Bombards/Napalms, Bursas) or the ones I would want to kill the fastest (Oxium Ospreys, bosses).  Infested and Corpus are not nearly enough of a threat or tanky enough to be worth building for, and there are no auras for the annoying aspects of those factions either (Nullifier bubbles, Sapper mines, Ancient auras, etc.).

I would use other auras like Growing Power or Rejuvenation or whatever some of the time, but fidgeting with my loadout EVERY SINGLE MISSION is not appealing to me, and the polarities on auras greatly restrict freedom as well.  Quite frankly, I hate the aura system (as well as the stance system) and wish it would be reworked.  Adding more choices is not going to solve how restricted I feel in being able to make them.

5)  Eight hours kind of sucks.  The way my schedule is, that basically means once a day anyway.  Then there's all the energy drain ones which may as well be a dead node to me, and that equals me not doing a lot of nightmare runs.

Edited November 1, 2016 by ArcusVeles

[Darkvramp]

endless mission for relics need to have alot more incentive than just using more relics in one mission, in fact, it doesnt fix the problem. endless missions are supposed to be like the old one where we spend one relic to have multiple choices out of the same relic.

[dual1020]

For the endless fissures, can we have a system where we select a number of relics then have the mission pick a reward from the selection? Just like how the old void system worked where theres an AABC rotation, but instead A rotations will select the most common from the list, B will be the uncommons from the list, and C will be the rarest of the selection.

 

Having to pause and choose a new relic breaks the flow of the game. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by dual1020

[Awazx]

4 hours ago, tocorro said:

Well I'd say I want endless missions back, but burning through more than 1 relic is not making me happy(...)

This.

[Awazx]

3 hours ago, Kinperor said:

I don't like the idea for more relics in endless missions.

Players like me want:

• to get greater odds at rare stuff based on time/effort spent.
  • difficulty and time spent goes up
  • reward rarity goes up too

And This ^

[Chroia]

Are you interested in playing longer endless Fissure missions when they'll allow additional Relic unlocks and Trace?

 

> Other

Seems to me that people want endless void back for the multiple rewards per key.

Now, let me make a distinction: There are 2 kinds of endless, those with stay/go screens and discrete rounds - meaning Interception and Defense - henceforth 'staggered endless', and those without - Survival and Excavation, or 'continuous endless'.

While multiple rewards per key's a nice bonus, I play continuous endless missions because there was enemy level and density scaling. ofc, finding the 'sweet spot' meant ~4 minutes of intense, frenetic play after ~35-42 minutes of no-challenge, but them's the breaks.
Thankfully, it's a lot less in Excavation, but even there, the changes to the game mode - twice, no less - have harmed the gameplay immensely, and are apparently here to stay. >;[

I don't touch staggered endless with a 10 foot pole.
Game-flow in Defense has not improved with the changes to spawns, imo. I find the staggered, slow-travelling spawn-waves tedious in the extreme, and the constant breaks in action (15 sec per wave, not including new-spawn travel time; and 'stay/go') to be immersion breaking.
Most Interception is better, in regards to... idk what to call it. 'Action uptime'?, with the Conclave map (Berehynia) being the exception - as it's built by design to limit contact outside the main areas.
But even then, the constant start-stop bothers me.

I've actually been hoping that the clan mission crafting would address that, letting players skip the initial under-powered, sparse buildup.

I rather miss Diablo 2's '/players #' command.

-----

Beyond that, I liked continuous endless because you don't have the breaks in play/flow that constantly extracting and restarting cause in staggered endless. I could just continue playing, ignoring the clock and accruing rewards for as long as I could survive was in the mood.
With all the good intentions in the world, I don't see how you can implement 'endless relics' unobtrusively enough that I wouldn't be as well off just restarting.

Of course, rewards drive engagement, and adding additional extrinsic rewards ought to do the trick (if they outweigh the inconvenience anyway, which is ymmv).

Fortress Assault will be a longer mission type. How long would you like it to take for you to complete?

> 10-40 (voted 20+)

You can already run any non-endless mission into 20 minutes just by going into every side room and popping all the containers/cabinets. But that's mostly just tedious (though I guess YMMV).

I completely wouldn't mind if there was a 'session-length' mission, which I could just drop in, play, complete, and that was my session. What that means in actual time varies by person, but 2 full rotations in Surv seemed the standard single-mission session-length.

Which quests do you want to replay the most?

> If they're so hard to do, I can live without any of them.

... Apparently you have to select at least one option. Fine.

> Hidden Messages.
Why? Characterization and worldbuilding.
You get to see more of the Lotus' character, and of the original Mirage's through her narration.
Also, a few snippets on the Old War.

> Patient Zero.
Why? Characterization and worldbuilding.
Alad V's had lots of face-time over Warframe's lifetime, true. Possibly too much.
But this also means he's one of the characters you (players) have the best feel for.
Also, Infested Mesa, Warframes in general, Infestation in general.

> Natah (though I'd add a mini Tubemen of Regor to it, for context) and Second Dream.
Why? Charact... look, you probably get it already.
Tyl Regor, from Tubemen through Natah to his Assassination is - off the top of my head - the most fleshed out character currently in the Warframe universe (and whether that's praise or indictment, I leave to you). And, that delicious voice-and-manner.
Vor has a fair bit of it too, with the new NPE/Vor's Prize, but his arc is so very disjointed, bits here, bits there. Tyl's is coherent. This, leads to this, leads to this.

Also, introducing the Sentients, Hunhow, more of the Lotus, a taste of Teshin, and come on, it's the &*!)$ Second Dream quest.

-----

Could spinning off the selected loadout as a clone in a temporary "new" account; work? I don't know the architecture in place.

How often do you use Corrosive Projection instead of other Aura mods?

> Almost/Always

There are many things that AGGP says with which I disagree.
'Mod for the hardest enemy you're going to encounter' isn't one.

At this point, there is literally no faction that doesn't have access to armor, anymore.
Pretty much all Grineer do.
All Corpus bosses, as well as Bursas have it.
Even Infested have the 'NOT THE BEES~!' Moas that give armor. And nevermind the Juggernaut. That thing is evil in sorties.

Further, very few auras offer any appreciable benefit, to slot instead of CP.
Combine that with auras having mod polarities, and you've cut down the available options even further.

And on top of that, even with low spawn rates, in level-appropriate content even a single Bursa / Bombard / etc. can and will wreck your team if you're not prepared. Which means CC (which means 'prepared' or 'just spamming blindly') or armor strip.

Between all that and how much of a hassle changing your mod loadout for every single mission is, I just have it slotted on pretty much everything, and almost never touch it.

What do you think of Nightmare Mode missions being available once every 8 hours?

> Other

I don't particularly care about the 8h cooldown, in and of itself.
Although, I haven't started from scratch any time recently, so maybe that's the reason.

My problem is more what it signifies.

On 10/29/2016 at 10:51 PM, Chroia said:

Very displeased to see the (opaque, not indicated anywhere) 8h cooldown.
Means that DE views NM missions as nothing more than a gate towards farming the NM mods, as opposed to being their own thing.

I'm going to go off on a bit of a monologue here, feel free to ignore.
It boils down to a question: What is the purpose of Nightmare missions?
To me they were the equivalent of NG+ back in star chart 1.5 before sorties-as-high-level-missions were a thing. One of my best memories of Warframe was a specific game session: sitting with a bunch of friends on voice chat, all of us mid-"level" players, and just dropping into nightmare versions of whatever we were farming, because why not. Suffice it to say, things did not go swimmingly, but it was challenging - due to the slight (and I cannot emphasize that enough: slight) stat handicap - and we were coordinated enough that we managed to pull through more often than not.
So that's my bias.

With the modifiers visible before you start the mission, it - like sorties - still gives you restrictions to work with or around, without being a 'screw you' if you happen to roll a bad frame<->modifier matchup.

I'd actually given up on nightmare missions, and was looking forward to the clan mission crafting as an alternative. But now they're back, and seeing DE apparently view them as nothing more than a farm-gate (which, incidentally, is also worrying in a broader perspective), as... idk, insignificant on their own merit, is just... deflating.

//End monologue.

So, viewing NM missions solely as a farm-gate, what is the 8h cooldown purpose?
If to stop people from 'grinding their face off' on a single, easy mission via e.g. speedrunning nm Cap ad nauseam, after the current one's completed, reroll the NM mission for that planet. (Node, modifiers.) Heck, that can probably even be done/stored client-side.
If to slow the more general rate of acquisition, let them be replayed for no NM mod, as sorties are with Arcanes.
Then you can both serve your farm-gating requirements and let NM missions be available as content.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Chroia
Oh right, there are more endless modes than just Surv/Exc...

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

it is very appreciated to bring back endless mission types back to farming void items, but what the devs offered seems to require the player to use even more keys, or relics than they did before void 2.0.

basically, players would need to use one relic per wave, which seems unfair considering each wave would be tougher than the last.

this will potentially cause players to quit on the first wave/round, then play it again because of the small amount of effort.

this could be resolved if the difficulty of each round after another allows the relic's drop chances to increase.

or the simple use of one relic, or the first relic picked, at the beginning of the mission, then presuming to use that same relic per round without using other completely different or similar relics.

hope the devs take this to mind.

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

1. Absolutely. Many people want endless to be objectively more profitable, and on the one hand this introduces risk/reward, which I think is important because the change proposed in the devstream doesn't offer more reward vs more risk. But on the other hand, I realize DE doesn't want players to feel like anything but X mission type is a waste of time.

2. lol way to call out the cheesy braggarts. Wearing glasses now, totally misread that. 10-15, but because of the number of objectives; not because of how long each objective takes.

3. Honestly... none of them. While I do enjoy looking back on the quests and putting together the story-behind-the-scenes, the missions themselves aren't fun. Even if they upscale. Early ones, such as Once Awake, are long and tedious with very little "story" happening in the forefront.

4. I've said it before: CP makes balancing the game nearly impossible. Players should not have the ability to completely eliminate enemy scaling. I mainly bring CP to NM/LOR, if we don't already have at least two, but I don't enjoy 2 hr void survival runs so CP doesn't have much use to me. I mostly used Rejuvenation or Rifle Amp, now I mostly use Growing Power. Please don't patch that brokenass aura. It's only 6s, genuine exploitation takes precise reflexes and you only have a brief moment to capitalize.

5. Can't really speak to that till console gets the update. Can't remember the last NM mission I ran, apart from LOR.

 

Sidenote: @[DE]Rebecca You answered H3dsh0t'S question about a multiplier for your traces as you progress in endless with "Yes, that's the idea." For real? An actual multiplier on the payout? Because I assumed you would need another 10 reactant and receive an additional roll of 6-30 traces for each rotation, but having a multiplier in addition would really make endless worthwhile without hitting the plat trade too hard.

Edited October 31, 2016 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Gemenai]

Regarding Corrosive Projection:

 

I use most of the time Rejuvenation to have a passive heal for weaker team mates, my kubrows ( before the new introduced companion mod), and just having some other way of replenishing health than orbs, or warframe abilities.

But as soon as you hit some midgame enemies or at the latest when reaching endgame/upper level enemies you are kind of forced to use CP instead of any other auras - it becomes mandatory.

There is no room for other auras in those level regions; any damage amplifying auras become negated by armor scaling. Rejuvenation, Physique and others become obsolete, because even the attack of weakest enemy in those missions can "break" through those auras.

And as seen in the plans regarding DMG 3.0, DE wants to reduce the need of mandatory mods, so I guess the same goes for all the other kinds of mods.

The further you progress in the game, the bigger the power-gap between CP and the other auras becomes.

 

Regarding endless relic missions:

 

Just a little more traces, are not enough incentive for me to go another 5 rounds/minutes/what have you.

Even if I upgrade my relic to radiant, I still have a pretty damn high chance of getting things from the low-ducat crap area. And even so, every radiant relic still costs 100 traces to upgrade. Also I first have to farm relics in hope of getting the one with the reward in it I'm actually after.

In the end, I would just leave after the first reward and restart.

Just "harder" enemies/bulletsponges alone, were never a real incentive - there has to be a reward (of around equivalent value).

In the old void, that value was defined by more prime parts/ducats overall, if you push through the next waves. But as was already stated, DE doesn't intend to go back on that track. So the question is, if you don't want to reward the players like in the old ways, how does DE intend to reward the players instead?

Edited October 31, 2016 by Gemenai
typo

[H8RAID]

1. Are you interested in playing longer endless Fissure missions when they'll allow additional Relic unlocks and Trace?

Short answer is yes.  I would definitely like to stay longer but doing so previously was relative to optimizing the Orokin key economy - multiple rewards for a single key.  The new system as presented doesn't appear to address this concern.  I can't foresee ever doing anything other than grinding relics on Capture and Exterminate missions if the one-for-one relic-to-reward ratio never improves.  If DE were to guarantee a rare drop w/out a relic on every 4th rotation of an endless mission then I might be interested.  I need an incentive that improves upon the existing relic economy and/or improves the likelihood of getting rare drops over time in mission. 

 

 

[Szaeravar]

Relics
People didn't just want endless missions back full stop. We have endless missions for relics right now but it is not worth it. Your challenge here to make it worth a while, to get us to play. 

I have a big issue with the response to this on the devstream. The video below is Sheldon responding to a request for Endless missions to return because players want "to haul in multiple items from a single endurance run". 

The defining point of that in the old system was NOT that you were getting multiple rewards without having to go back to the Liset every time. The point was that the longer you stayed, the more value your key had: if you get 8 drops (40 mins in Survival) with one key, it's worth 8 times as much as a key run only to 5 minutes. 

THAT is what we are looking for here. Give us value-added for time. Traces are a good start but they won't compel everyone, and I honestly don't really trust that it'll even be worth our time AS a trace farm. Look at the Trace alerts you've added. 10 traces. Potentially for a 10-minute Survival or 10-wave Defense. That's a very distorted investment:reward ratio. 

Please consider that you need to add value to our time for staying in these missions. If you don't, this change will largely be pointless. 

Endless missions also have a big issue with players continuing with their team. Right now a player can rapidly switch between "Extract" and "Stay", with no consequence, without telling their team, and without giving any commitment to actually stay. We need a better way to guarantee team cohesion, or an option for players to drop out of survival on their own if this new system will be worth anything. 

Regarding what Drew said, please read this, about not wanting Void Survival to be the "most efficient" method of grinding Prime parts: that was not the case. DE constantly, at every Prime Access, put Prime parts into Tower III Survival C rotation at a 5% drop rate, WITHOUT FAIL. We were FORCED to play Tower III Survival C for hours on end because you gave us no alternatives. It was not our choice or even love for Endless missions that really drove us to do that. 

Nightmare Missions
It'd be great if we had a guarantee of the drop rates for these mods. I like that the drop table has been split three ways since that makes it easier to get what you want, but that's only true if none of those mods have a crazy drop chance (anything below 5%). Armored Agility at launch was crazy hard to come by. You also don't think Chilling Reload is a little crazy for powercreep? It costs less than Tactical Pump, gives MORE reload speed, AND gives 60% cold damage. That's incredibly powerful for its cost. 

Auras
I use loot radar for some syndicate missions but elsewhere, why bother with anything else? Energy Siphon needs a buff to be useful, Enemy Radar has Animal Instinct/Enemy Sense competing with it, Loot Radar is really only good for Ayatan/syndicate-medallion hunting, Empowered Blades is seriously pointless, Brief Respite's aura polarity basically means most people won't bother using it (bad call in my opinion, you should give players easy opportunities to try out new strategies you want to playtest), Growing Power is clunky since it doesn't work with many Warframe abilities that proc status, Amp auras do a piddly boost because of their scaling, Shield Disruption is pretty pointless when we have Toxin damage and Magnetic procs. 

Your newest event the Index basically, again, as always, forces Corrosive Projection to have meaningful damage. That's the other reason why we don't have meaningful options. The others are generally weak OR their effect, while good, can't compete with the supreme centralizing strength of Corrosive Projection. It's like if the Synoid Gammacor never got a nerf and future enemies were designed with it in mind. That's the scenario CP is in. The solution is not to nerf Corrosive Projection, it's to buff other auras and stop putting insane armor scaling on enemies.

Corrosive Projection and The Index

I very, very strongly disagree with Rob. Armor IS the fault of the scaling. Armor is a huge issue in this game. If you don't have Corrosive Projection, you are completely shut down. We do not have abilities to cut down the armor because of the huge energy drain. You can't use a finisher on the Raptor enemy. Telling us "just use Corrosive Projection and Covert Lethality" which are hugely problematic design choices, is inappropriate and ridiculous. Rob is wrong on this. Armor needs to be addressed. Please don't just go with Rob's answer of "git gud".

 

Here's the issue with Rob's thoughts. If you only mod for the strongest threat, you only EVER use Corrosive Projection because nothing else is dangerous. That means he's okay with Corrosive Projection being the only used Aura. He's okay with that. DE, please don't listen to that. We need diversity and meaningful choice. Armor damages that.

You've had him on this podcast enough. He's a yes-man and he's only ever contrarian to anything that questions your design choices. This podcast was supposed to have a breadth of community opinions. If you think you should defend your design choices on the podcast then do it, don't have him do it.
He's on the pilot episode, the first episode, the second episode, the third episode, the fourth episode. Is this podcast about DE and AGGP? No? Then please diversify, stop putting him in every episode just to agree with you. This is genuinely frustrating and incredibly disheartening to see you lean so heavily on an individual content creator who cannot see your flaws. That's a very troublesome social environment and it's not one I want to see you in. 

 

To Rebecca about Warframe Abilities and Armor

We can't use Abating Link/Seeking Shuriken/Sonic Fracture when you rapidly drain all our energy down to 0. The event design robs that from us. We therefore have practical ability negation AND ridiculous armor scaling. I would not believe any sentiment that this event was well designed or was meant to make players feel anything but disempowered.

Mark Rosewater "Players know what hurts but not how to fix it"
That 's good to consider BUT please continue listening to our suggestions. Don't immediately follow them of course, don't feel pressured by demands, but please understand that we DO have good ideas and we want to consult with you. 
As an example, DE's design team has been trying to make charge attacks good on weapons, most noticeable on the Sibear, Zenistar, and Cuastacyst. The issue? You haven't made their charge time scale with attack speed mods, or even Warframe abilities like Volt's Speed or Valkyr's Warcry. I really see no good reason NOT to change that, and if there is a bad reason please, share it with us! Let's have a conversation about it. If we DON'T, charge attacks will remain pointless. The only one that really has utility is the Zenistar because you fire and forget and aren't constantly charge attacking. The Caustacyst is clunky because of that slow charge up. The Sibear is really pointless because why would we ever want more status chance on a single attack? The Sibear can't Slash Proc so increased damage from charge attack won't give high damage procs. For Corrosive Procs you want FAST speed. 

Edited November 1, 2016 by TheDarkStarChimaera

[tbeest]

We need to get more rewards per relic. Or more ways to obtain relics. Eximus drops, maybe? Or has that one been forgotten...

[Chipputer]

1. Definitely interested. They don't even have to reward anything, just being able to use up my relics quicker is fine by me. I have so many and I just keep getting more and I can't maintain a good use:acquisition ratio.

2. A good 15-20 minute mission with varied objectives would be perfect for me. Something I can jump into when I want to really sink my teeth in, but at the same time it's something that isn't going to have as much pressure as 20+ minutes of Survival.

3. Of course The Second Dream. Really, I'd like to replay every quest whenever I want to so I can refresh my mind on the lore and such.

4. I mostly use Corrosive Projection because I'm too lazy to switch to other mods, but it's also almost directly required to do end game situations. The difference between a party of 4 CP and a party of 4 Energy Siphon is night and day and that's a problem.

5. Nightmare modes being available 3 times a day is a bit restrictive. Are the mods really so good that they need to be restricted? If so, why are we able to do as many vault runs as we want in a day?

[Caobie]

im only interested in staying for multiple waves in an endless relic mission for the traces if theyre increased at fair bit per 5. as it was shown on the dev stream it looks like staying 5 more waves/minutes/whatever and using another relic is no more or less good (other than enemy scaling) than going out on the 5th and coming back in. for trace farming id stay, for relic farming id leave and come back unless the chance of a rarer drop increases as the waves progress, say doubled chance by wave 20 (on top of your trace tier so if a radiant is 15% chance of rare at wave 20 it would be 30%) and capping there for the remainder of the mission. i will append after listening to the podcast proper if need be.

as for fortress assault i cant say right now how long i think it would take. not enough was demo'd and my mission times vary based on secondary objectives, syndicate exterminate for example can take me upwards of 30 minutes hunting every nook and cranny for medallions or if its just an alert exterminate i can blaze through in less than 5. capture is much the same. depending on the side obectives in fortress assault (if any) i imagine it will take me exactly as long as transit times between objectives and objective timers to complete a mission...as is the case with all mission types.