Ember's Current State in the Game

[--Dark_Rage--]

3 minutes ago, DeadScream said:

Yeah same for Banshee, the only sacrifice for SQ is that you can't do anything while using it, but it also ruins the gameplay for everyone else in the squad especially with this sick augment...

That was just an example. It's actually for almost all Frames. Maybe Wukong with turned on 2 skill is too skill-based ? Or maybe Frost, who freeze everything (or annihillate on low level) with his 4 skill is not so "lazy" ? Maybe we should ask about nerf rework all Frames ? 

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

Just now, DeadScream said:

Fair for Ember players, unfair for everyone else in the squad except Mirage with Simulor and Equinox. 

And don't say "go solo then", the affinity gains are miserable and many game modes are boring as hell when playing alone. 
And we don't all have much time to make squads with recruit channel, however it would take a hour to make one just because we don't want to watch an Ember do all the job.

Are you upset because an Ember stole all your kills in some level 10 alert?  She was just making the grind faster for you.  Be more grateful.

[EtherealSlasher]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)ThermalStone said:

If I wanted to have to look at the things I kill, I'd bring Mirage with Simulor.

Leave Ember alone.  She's the best frame for content below level 50 and not very good above that.  That's fair.

Ember's actually really great for content above that. Firequake ember is great cc.

Unfortunately aside from sorties, raids and certain other content you won't be facing much higher level content.

Again for everyone still calling this a nerf, I don't care if she can clear a room in seconds to speed up exterminates, many frames/weapons can. What I care about is how the room is cleared. It's not fun for the other players if an ember goes into an alert, presses one button and runs through the mission automatically.

Edited November 5, 2016 by EtherealSlasher

[DeadScream]

3 minutes ago, --Dark_Rage-- said:

That was just an example. It's actually for almost all Frames. Maybe Wukong with turned on 2 skill is too skill-based ? Or maybe Frost, who freeze everything (or annihillate on low level) with his 4 skill is not so "lazy" ? Maybe we should ask about nerf rework all Frames ? 

They actually need some interaction and Frost can't activate his avalanche and then walk into several rooms killing stuff while doing nothing else than walking. He has to place himself, use a set ammount of energy, then move and strike again. 

Ember's world on fire costs almost nothing and you keep your freedom of movement while using it, that's why it's kind of lazy. Even Ash's current bladestorm is not as much gameplay un-friendly, at least for low level missions... 

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ThermalStone said:

Are you upset because an Ember stole all your kills in some level 10 alert?  She was just making the grind faster for you.  Be more grateful.

You made me remember about a game where hackers did all the job and kicked you out from their squads if you dare killing anything during their beloved godmode mission. 

It's not about numbers, it's about actually playing the game. I'm not grateful to players who are too lazy to think about the ones who would like to play a "shooter game"

[Jackviator]

Gotta agree with the OP on this one. WOF is beyond "press 4 to win," it's "press 4 to not have to play." And that just ruins the fun for everyone.

While I recognize that the damage falls off, it trivializes the star chart to a ridiculous degree. Plus, for the most part, (unless you're playing sorties and raids), there isn't really a reason you should be facing high-level enemies in the first place. After all, void 2.0 took away pretty much the only reason to do long survival runs, so the chart is kinda all you have to deal with in normal everyday play.

If it took some degree of skill to use the ability I'd consider using her more often, but as-is it's an aimbot that can hit targets through walls and kills things a room ahead of you, pretty much removing the chance of you (or your squad mates) having to actually play and enjoy the game.

[EtherealSlasher]

3 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

Gotta agree with the OP on this one. WOF is beyond "press 4 to win," it's "press 4 to not have to play." And that just ruins the fun for everyone.

While I recognize that the damage falls off, it trivializes the star chart to a ridiculous degree. Plus, for the most part, (unless you're playing sorties and raids), there isn't really a reason you should be facing high-level enemies in the first place. After all, void 2.0 took away pretty much the only reason to do long survival runs, so the chart is kinda all you have to deal with in normal everyday play.

If it took some degree of skill to use the ability I'd consider using her more often, but as-is it's an aimbot that can hit targets through walls and kills things a room ahead of you, pretty much removing the chance of you (or your squad mates) having to actually play and enjoy the game.

Yea I think the overall issue is the fact that most missions are too low leveled from the start. Unless you pick an endless mission like survival and stay for a while, making a high quality loadout is pointless.

Whether or not ember or other aspects of the game changes I think it's a great thing to talk about. No point in waiting for mods like primed pressure point if we don't need them for most of the game.

Edited November 5, 2016 by EtherealSlasher

[--Dark_Rage--]

I see here some slowly victims of stolen kills in a low-level missions. Nothing constructive. 

I wish all them to try themselves in conclave. ( if someone is too slow, the reason of irritation will be found anyway )

I often see such "players" on exterminate missions, and waiting for them 10 minutes on finish. They have a big problem with such elementary thing as fast picking up Void Fissues, but blame on someone else, lol.

Edited November 5, 2016 by --Dark_Rage--

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

13 minutes ago, DeadScream said:

Because the way you choose to play basically prevents us from playing ? Like, I don't know, playing a low level exterminate but you can't do anything because your friend Ember just walks ? Just like these exterminates wouldn't be more enjoyable if we actually played them ?

I'm sorry....I had no idea I had the power to keep you contained in a room with me if I went public. I also had no idea my power would prevent you from leaving or going solo. With great power comes great responsibility and I swear I will use it for justice!!!

Also fun? killing enemies you could breathe on to kill? the same ones my sentinels could wipe out with with no extra actions? the ones that essentially any frame or weapon with AoE capabilities would make short work of? the same ones I could bullet jump past for kills? right. Even if that is what you deem as fun, everyone should be effected by the changes you folks want because you can't be bothered to change matches? k.

Let's be real here? this isn't just about fun. This is also about folks wanting others to put in whatever amount of effort they deem is enough to play which is why the term "lazy" was even brought up. Ember isn't even the top contender for speed kills and ability to spoil a run......but she is easy to put in quick work.

[DeadScream]

1 minute ago, --Dark_Rage-- said:

I see here some slowly victims of stolen kills in a low-level mission. Nothing constructive. 

I wish all them to try themselves in conclave. ( if someone is too slow, the reason of irritation will be found anyway )

I see here some people who didn't read all the posts, 

I'm sad for these players who don't like playing, so they always take the most OP loadout as possible and then complain the game is repetitive. Yes, man, pressing a button and then walk to the extract point is really repetitive. Think about players in your squad, who are "so slow" they can only walk to the extract because whatever they will do you will have bashed all the content before them, just because you don't like playing. 

[Bonteaomd]

I agree, WoF needs some revision.

imo Embers WoF should work like Banshee's sound quake.

 

 

[DeadScream]

6 minutes ago, Bonteaomd said:

I agree, WoF needs some revision.

imo Embers WoF should work like Banshee's sound quake.

 

 

Not enough CC for that, and I think the game doesn't need more abilities that prevent the player from moving at all :/ 

I consider Ember should pack more damage and actual power feel, but should be restricted to at least aiming at things a little. 

 

edit : I think "easy missions" should be something rewarding, as you played anough to get a good loadout and then you consider yourself powerful and your "easy" gameplay becomes satisfying. In the actual state of some abilities, it's not even "easy" it's "nothing", just "walk and wait". Sometimes I sit on the cryopod and it litteraly changes nothing to the mission.

Edited November 5, 2016 by DeadScream

[SoulEchelon]

Ember being my "mainframe", I use her for 5 things.

1. Blasting through low level content that would pose zero challenge no matter what frame I use. Usually I do this solo.

2. Survivals. Typically I try to stay in my own area nearby so my team can still gain affinity from my kills, but I'm not robbing their fun.

3. Scultpure/Star farming. Usually I do this in alerts or Survivals or whenever I'm in a group. I let everyone else do the objective while I'm focusing on smashing everything around me and opening lockers. Of course I mark any goodies I find. WoF keeps most enemies off me while my Telos Boltace does most of the smashing.

4. Relic Farming. We're all there to get it done as fast as possible so we can continue farming the node before it ends. I've never seen anyone complain about me or any other player killing enemies "too fast".

5. Cuz fun. Go to a mid-near high level Infested or Grineer mission with no weapons and a build based completely on Accelerant+Fireball. Fun.

 

Anyway what I'm getting at, is that Ember, just like all the other warframes with aoe abilities, is dependent upon their player on how "lazy" or team oriented they are. I noticed people trying to point out Frost, and others saying that he's not as lazy. Really? High range+High efficancy = low level room clearing. He literally just needs to walk into a room, press 4, and everything's dead. Ember needs to actually run around a bit more while her 4 is active. If Ember is considered "lazy', then so is Frost. So is Equinox. So is (currently) Ash. So is Saryn. So is Nova. So is Hydroid. So is Mirage. So is Valkyr. So is Wukong. So is......everyone at low levels with high stats.

 

Also, Ember's one of the squishiest warframes in the game. Try going mid-high level without Firequake. If you're not ninja enough she'll explode almost immediately, especially against Grineer and Corpus.

Edited November 5, 2016 by SoulEchelon
I dunno how to count.

[DeadScream]

2 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

Ember being my "mainframe", I use her for 3 things.

1. Blasting through low level content that would pose zero challenge no matter what frame I use. Usually I do this solo.

2. Survivals. Typically I try to stay in my own area nearby so my team can still gain affinity from my kills, but I'm not robbing their fun.

3. Scultpure/Star farming. Usually I do this in alerts or Survivals or whenever I'm in a group. I let everyone else do the objective while I'm focusing on smashing everything around me and opening lockers. Of course I mark any goodies I find. WoF keeps most enemies off me while my Telos Boltace does most of the smashing.

4. Cuz fun. Go to a mid-near high level Infested or Grineer mission with no weapons and a build based completely on Accelerant+Fireball. Fun.

Thanks for your kind playstyle, obviously many Embers don't act this way. 

2 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

Also, Ember's one of the squishiest warframes in the game. Try going mid-high level without Firequake. If you're not ninja enough she'll explode almost immediately, especially against Grineer and Corpus.

That's why I suggest making her kit generally more viable, focus her WoF on her own line of sight, with higher damage and better effects and better range. With good aiming and placing you become even better than before, but you actually have to play. 

 

While I could agree with your Frost point of view, I still never see any Frost preventing me from doing anything on a low level alert ^^' 

[SoulEchelon]

1 minute ago, DeadScream said:

Thanks for your kind playstyle, obviously many Embers don't act this way. 

That's why I suggest making her kit generally more viable, focus her WoF on her own line of sight, with higher damage and better effects and better range. With good aiming and placing you become even better than before, but you actually have to play. 

 

While I could agree with your Frost point of view, I still never see any Frost preventing me from doing anything on a low level alert ^^' 

Most players tend to use faster frames if they're speedrunning something. Frost tends to be delegated mainly for defensive missions, and most low level Defense missions have little use for him with veterans running around one-shotting everything with their chosen warframes.

Still doesn't change the fact that he can indeed clear low level rooms, or at the very very least, freeze everything in place for large amounts of time, making them much, much easier to kill. That can easily be labeled "lazy gameplay" too.

[DeadScream]

1 minute ago, SoulEchelon said:

Most players tend to use faster frames if they're speedrunning something. Frost tends to be delegated mainly for defensive missions, and most low level Defense missions have little use for him with veterans running around one-shotting everything with their chosen warframes.

Still doesn't change the fact that he can indeed clear low level rooms, or at the very very least, freeze everything in place for large amounts of time, making them much, much easier to kill. That can easily be labeled "lazy gameplay" too.

Yup, freezing them gives more time to Ember's WoF to kill them all :B 

(sorry for the bad tasted joke) 

 

If speedrunning people could tend to go solo, I wouln't mind at all. But everybody knows playing alone isn't rewarding at all. 

[SoulEchelon]

1 minute ago, DeadScream said:

Yup, freezing them gives more time to Ember's WoF to kill them all :B 

(sorry for the bad tasted joke) 

 

If speedrunning people could tend to go solo, I wouln't mind at all. But everybody knows playing alone isn't rewarding at all. 

Generally true. I tend to go solo for most things anyway, though. Spy missions are perfect for soloing because you don't have to worry about other players messing up. Really unless I'm farming resources or affinity, I go solo. Just more fun that way.

[TeaBegging]

Ember is one of those frames that got her 4th ability changed multiple times.

It's fine at where it is.

[TotallyLagging]

You generally use WoF while spamming Accelerate, which actually promotes an active gameplay since you'll want to chase around enemies debuffing them.

That and, well, WoF deals almost no damage at high levels due to enemy scaling. If people are complaining that WoF is sucking the challenge out of the game then perhaps they should start by doing actual hard content instead of complaining about Embers blazing through level 20 exterminate alerts.

[Sirfol]

Sorry people but i want to point out a thing you all did, u talked like WoF is all ember is worth. I'm not a ember player and sometime i admit i'm triggered by the BS syndrome she have, but i saw her in a High level mission survival used by a ember main and ember is not limited by only WoF. If you want to discuss her i think you need to take in consideration why she used only for "cleaning" and because it all the BS again here. Only because a ability performance extremely well in certain content we forgot how to use her entire kit. 

[Ny_Soro]

1 hour ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

It would be way too slow. And Ember depends on WoF and it's CC to survive in higher level content. Ember is only really playable in stuff like sorties because WoF with augment knocks enemies on their behinds. Your idea would make her redundant in low level content and at the same time one of the worst frames in the game to bring to high level content.

IMO That could change it to where WoF acts like reworked Nekros' desecrate and takes energy to cause that type of explosion instead of a constant energy drain.

[Vali]

WoF seems fine as it is, low damage and provides very cheap and mobile CC, something unique to Ember. Fire Blast and Fireball are pretty lackluster, however.  

Tbh I'd prefer if Fireball/Blast got charged up by 'Heat' from WoF and turns it off in the process. It would give a reason to turn off the toggle, similar to how Maim works. 

Edited November 5, 2016 by Agentawesome

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, DeadScream said:

Fair for Ember players, unfair for everyone else in the squad except Mirage with Simulor and Equinox. 

And don't say "go solo then", the affinity gains are miserable and many game modes are boring as hell when playing alone. 

So... stealth kills, stealth multipliers, and affinity gains from that are S#&$e? What?

[Brasten]

Maybe it's time to return Overheat (DR armor and minor AoE damage) and give her back her place as a Melee Range Caster who rubs up on the enemy to burn them alive.

=====

Outside of that I'm personally not happy with this trend people of asking to turn every Warframe into a Piano. Not every frame should require constant high levels of key/button mashing to manage their abilities. Interactivity ≠ Piano Frame.

Also looking at low level (sub level 30) where enemies just evaporate under the stern look from any well prepared LATE GAME (not even End game) frame isn't a good balance point. I can go down the list of Warframes that can just walk into rooms and delete such enemies without thinking. It would be easier to list the frames that can't.

• Chroma
• Inaros
• Loki
• Nekros
• Titania
• Valkyr
• Wukong

That's 7 to 23 of the current frames. Either those frame lack some kind of large AoE damage method, don't have a spam-able #1, or has approach and melee enemies. For every other frame there are builds you can do that will allow you to almost mindlessly walk/run/jump through level 30 or lower missions while killing everything. Some do it easier than others, but every other frame, besides those listed, has that capacity.

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, EtherealSlasher said:

Ember's actually really great for content above that. Firequake ember is great cc.

Unfortunately aside from sorties, raids and certain other content you won't be facing much higher level content.

Again for everyone still calling this a nerf, I don't care if she can clear a room in seconds to speed up exterminates, many frames/weapons can. What I care about is how the room is cleared. It's not fun for the other players if an ember goes into an alert, presses one button and runs through the mission automatically.

This guy's on the right track.  Ember is one of the best high level frames due to her reliable, spammable CC, passive DPS, and big damage multipliers.  Firequake isn't even necessary, but makes things easier for less experienced players and for babysitting teammates at long range.  

The problem with Ember is that WoF is a passive and not an ability that you use.  It's funny how no one used Ember and everyone declared her useless until her 4 became an exploitable passive ability, even though nothing changed besides that.  It's all about being lazy and automatic, and not at all an appraisal of her actual potential.  Before they can really fix WoF, though, they need to fix the ridiculous state of energy economy in the current game.  

[Simu1992]

i think ember is one of the best balanced frame out there.. just dont nerf/buff her.