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[DE]Danielle

[TWW] Endless Void Fissure Missions Feedback

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Interception, Defense, Survival, and Excavation Endless Void Fissure Missions have been revamped and now function in a new way! 

First, every reward interval can have it's own Relic selected and opened (if you get enough Reactant per interval). 

Secondly, the reward intervals are as follows (for clarity):

Defense: 5 Waves.
Interception: 1 Round.
Survival: 5 Minutes.
Excavation: 200 Cryotic. 

Should you collect the necessary Reactant per interval and open you Relic, a bonus will occur and you will be allowed to re-select a new Relic for the next interval! The bonuses are as follows:

  • Every time you open a Relic, you get a pre-determined booster. These boosters stack the longer you stay.  
  • The first interval: 1.25x Affinity.
  • The second interval: 1.25x Credits.
  • The third interval: 1.25x Resources.
  • The fourth interval is 1.25x Resource Drop Rate. 
  • The fifth interval is a random Relic (that can be used in the same mission). 
  • The sixth interval: 1.5x Affinity (replaces first).
  • The seventh interval: 1.5x Credits (replaces second).
  • The eighth interval: 1.5x Resources (replaces third).
  • The ninth interval is 1.5x Resource Drop Rate (replaces fourth).
  • The tenth interval has a higher tier random Relic as a reward (that can be used in the same mission). 
  • Once you get to the fifthteenth interval, you'll receive a random Radiant Relic (that can be used in the same mission. 
  • Boosters continue to increase every set of intervals and are capped at double (2x).
  • Radiants only on every fifth interval past the fifteenth. 
  • Every Relic opened will result in Traces! 

     

So what do you think after playing through these changes? We want to know! Post your thoughts below and please be constructive in your comments. 

If you have bugs to report please use the Bug Report Megathread. Thank you!

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Wow that sounds so cool! I love the idea, I remember playing the old survival missions in the Void and while frustrating they were certainly fun. I love the idea to bring that back into Endless Fissure Quests, I even think it's better that what it was before since we can totally enjoy this in many different maps which certainly spices things up.

I love the idea a lot. It certainly sounds fun. I am to asume it will be buggy at first but no matters, I do enjoy the idea. I often choose Excavation missions because those were the quickest, but now we do have a good reason to stay over, which is so cool. I like it a lot, thanks for this update! It's really cool for hardcore tenno out there, myself included.

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This sounds... well bad. I hate to say it. Mostly it sounds way too cumbersome. Here are some of the problems I forsee:

Assumptions:

You can not upgrade relics during the mission when choosing a new relic (if you can that seems cumbersome to pause to do this every 5 minutes)

Yellow double drop boosters stack with the boosters here, and the traces are still doubled by the smeeta if you are doubled when you pickup reactant #10

1) Changing relics mid stream. The relic system is already over complicated compared to the keys/void. But now if I want to do this endless It seems like I have to have 12 relics ready to go (assume a 60 minute survival). I have to have preselected 12 relics to use. Let's say Nekros just came out and my group of 4 wants to hunt them, so we go to Axi. I want to use a radiant N3 (Nekros BP), but if we get the nekros bp on relic 1, I want to use a Radiant T1 (Tigris) next. However,if I don't get the Nekros BP on round 1, I want a new Radiant N3... which I don't want to have made radiant until i know the first one failed.

Seems like in this system I have to have several radients ready to go and potentially waste a lot of traces if you get the rare on the 1st relic. I also have to plan out a long 60 minute run with the relics my group and I are using each round, which is really really complex on who is using a radiant each round (we generally use 1 radiant per round and rotate who uses the radiant). If you are farming for certain things with a coordinated group,  endless missions seem like a lot of hassle compared to "Hosting T3 Survival".

2) If you are not in a coordinated group, then endless missions again seem wasteful as you can't raident relics as there is no way to make sure everyone uses X relic as the mission progresses. Endless missions are relegated  to intact relics only for public runs in the real world setting.

3) Farming Traces. My friends and I usually go right to relic farming when we see one of us get a yellow double drop booster for login, add on our  smeeta and start running relics. Seems like to run an endless mission here, we'd have to drain our 1200 traces near to zero before we start, since  a yellow booster averages 36 traces per relic, that's 432 traces. Plus a smeeta boost every so often, plus the 1.25/ 1.5 .1.75 booster at the 3rd rotation which i assume works like a yellow booster, you could get double that amount in 60 minutes so 850 traces. If you got only moderately lucky you could actually max out your traces before getting to 60 minutes... assuming the boosters all stack. While unlikely it's certainly possible. Which means you might be faced with ending the mission, or hitting your trace limit.

 

It seems like this really isn't "endless" because you will be faced with the trace limit, as well as the onerous coordination of picking new relics. It's certainly a far cry from load up the mission and see how far you can go. It seems to me like there are a lot of roadblocks that will make you want to leave before being forced to leave by difficulty.

Personally I'd take this entire thing, remove it from the endless void fissures and slap into the void (Mot, etc). drop intact relics as rewards every interval as a regular survival, add in the bonus resources the longer you stay, and eventually have the relics dropped become flawless, radiant etc,  Add in traces as a resource drop (something like control module drop rates  so you'd never get 1200 in a run but get some) and let us have at it without the relics getting in the way. Give us the endless missions on the relic farming /trace farming side instead of the prime farming side.

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1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Once you get to the fifthteenth interval, you'll receive a random Radiant Relic (that can be used in the same mission.

None of these seem really worth it since you have to spend 15 relics to even get to this point, right?

These boosts would be nice on regular endless missions though. I would like to see them on Dark Sector defense and survival, for example.

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2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

a bonus will occur

Can we not get the non-fissure related bonuses on normal endless missions too?  They certainly need sprucing up as well.

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So you gotta waste 4 relics just to get to 20 minutes where it starts to get fun, 12 relics an hour just because you wanted to do some survival i mean... i have a lot of relics since the key conversion and i didnt like the fissure changes at all.. but i'll burn throug them in a a matter of a week. 

This changes nothing really, i mean.. damn it.

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After playing some of the new endless mission i quite enjoyed them. i personally enjoyed endless missions previously as it was something i could do with clan mates and have fun running for 40 minutes +. I think its worth noting that you still get the general endless mission type rewards at the end of each rotation (and please don't say that's unintended) so you have a chance to replenish your stock of relics with how common they are on drop tables now.

I'd say the major drawbacks though are still the rng on mission setting, factions your facing and reward set (i.e - enemy level) since the relic update. The old system was fun as you could narrow down how challenging you wanted it to be. want it to be tough? go t4. slightly easier? t2-t3. Now what you get is entirely dependent on the rng roll of the relic runs at the time you click the missions (for missions type).

With the upcoming clan made missions, could this not be expanded upon to allow a more custom game play in general to address the above? my thoughts anyway.

also, just a note but there has been 2 rotations so far where I've missed selecting a relic for one reason or another. could there not be a way to choose as the game is progressing aswell? say a relic run specific console that appears, or even just a menu option.

 

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Well, I went to a survival to test this new endless mode and its great, solo nekros on Titan for 45 minutes really good dificulty got a lot of reward, this is better than the old void and the new one.

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6 hours ago, Ryddem said:

So you gotta waste 4 relics just to get to 20 minutes where it starts to get fun, 12 relics an hour just because you wanted to do some survival i mean... i have a lot of relics since the key conversion and i didnt like the fissure changes at all.. but i'll burn throug them in a a matter of a week. 

This changes nothing really, i mean.. damn it.

you also get relics in the mission

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While the system was going through the motions of selecting a new relic during an excavation i was left standing in the middle of a small crowd of enemies. Since i couldn't control my warframe until all the timers were through, i got killed. I was revived no problem, but i can see how it could become one. This might be solved by either A) freezing the game while we go through the various timers  B) Making us damage immune while we can't control our warframes C) A better idea, because that's all i can think of right now.

Also, when i was getting my complimentary relic for going five intervals, I got a vaulted relic. Don't know if that was intentional or not, but i certainly enjoyed it. It might have some weird effects on the value of vaulted primes if people can farm vaulted relics though.

Also also, When doing interception missions, it's pretty easy to win faster than traces drop. We ended up only holding three points each round to give ourselves more time.

Also also aslo, I really love the new endless missions. It's so much faster and more efficient and more fun for endurance while farming traces. The boosters are a great bonus!

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Might want to take a look into reactant drop chances - just ran 5 Lith defense fissures and 4/5 it didn't drop enough reactant to open a relic.

Especially the case when I went solo.

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When i was doing a endless void fissure defense mission, i noticed a few things:

-The reactants in the first 5 waves arent enough to receive a reward and thus you have to do extra 5 (not an issue).

-When i switched to my operator after picking 10 reactants, they were reduced back to 0 and i didn't receive any reward.

-The timer is abit lagged

 

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I like endless missions but I kind of want the intervals shorter for defense and survival

at the moment it's faster to just run interception and excavation.

 

Maybe reduce the interval, just shifting -1 for each thing because taking 75 minutes survival/75 waves of defense to be able to start getting radiant relics sounds pretty insane to me.

I also wish there was a bit more time before the next selection. I found myself running out of time to select a relic/discuss what relic to use with the squad.

Maybe make the timer a bit longer and when everyone has chosen an option the timer becomes 5s?

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So we need to stay in a survival for ONE HOUR AND FIFTEEN MINUTES to get a radiant relic? And before you say anything: No one cares about the boosters... Players play void missions to get void stuff. It's that simple. No one plays a 60 minute survival to level their frame or weapons. There are much better ways to get credits and resources than spending 60 minutes in a single mission.

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now that i have done an endless mission: it's quite nice but the number of fissure goes down after 15 or 20 min so when you need to get the reactant it's harder to find them after each step.

is normal or is it something that will be change in the future?

 

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Do boosters act retroactively or do they apply only on what you get after you unlock them?

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I have loved playing the new endless in the days after the patch. Especially survivals. Have been able to burn through many relics without having to step back to the star map every time a mission is completed. There might be some issues however:

In survivals I've observed the transition to the next relic. After the selections are made and the timer runs down to zero there always seems to be at least a slight pause/jerk before the gameplay resumes. Today (after a MAJOR jerk and even windows showing the game as not responding for a few moments) this actually caused a weird host migration and loss of connection to the host. This resulted in loss of all mission rewards. Maybe the ticket I sent with the game log will shed some light to what happened. I spoke to one of the players of the team and it seems he and the original host were put on their own mission and were able to extract with their rewards intact.

So the transitions might need work. Other than the survivals I've done an interception for a few waves and I did not experience those game jerks there.

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I do not lose my Relics in solo missions (missions with end)
In endless missions I lose my relics
Fail thread

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I like the new system. Its more dynamic than what we had before, and definitely better than no endless missions at all.
It could use a little polish when you select the relics, and probably some tweaks to make sure you keep your rewards if there is a host  migration or some other issue, but otherwise I love it.

Yes it burns through relics like crazy. Thats been established when they first rolled out that it isn't nearly as efficient, but I still love the system.

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Enemy's seem much tougher in general and with the challenge of having to collect enough reactant this really adds flavour and manic madness. One of the best additions to the game and certainly my favourite part of The War Within update. Thanks for bringing back end game DE :) good work. 

Lets have more random encounters to really put the pressure on:

More boss battles (boss for every planet) and random encounters to keep the game surprising and fresh. I hope to see a day where its more likely to have a random encounter than not. Lets have all the bosses pay us a visit with some nice rewards of course ;)

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IMHO there isn´t any proper reward to actually stay and do endless missions, if i want to get prime parts the fast way and efficient way i just do non endless missions Ad nauseam.

and there isnt any challenge until later waves/intervals/rotations anyway, why would i stay if the rewards  are bad? for the challenge? i dont think so,  at the moment the time spent in endless missions to get proper rewards is not efficient in any way,  zero incentive to stay IMHO

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I think it might be a good idea to reduce the amount of reactant that needs to be collected in endless missions every round/whatever from 10 to 5. It's not that much of a problem in defense or survival, yet in excavations it can cause issues and it's easy for people to not get the 10 reactants in time.

Otherwise I'm rather happy. While it's not really faster than running shorter missions the flow of the combat is much better in endless missions and thus farming prime parts feels faster and a lot less like doing chores.

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5 hours ago, minidelight said:

IMHO there isn´t any proper reward to actually stay and do endless missions, if i want to get prime parts the fast way and efficient way i just do non endless missions Ad nauseam.

and there isnt any challenge until later waves/intervals/rotations anyway, why would i stay if the rewards  are bad? for the challenge? i dont think so,  at the moment the time spent in endless missions to get proper rewards is not efficient in any way,  zero incentive to stay IMHO

There's the incentive of not having to hop between the star map and a mission every 3 minutes (the usual capture). 

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