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[DE]Danielle

[TWW] Endless Void Fissure Missions Feedback

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Not enough reactants drop in all endless missions!

In interception we had to leave 1 tower to the enemy or we wouldn't have enough time to farm enough. In survival just now 3 of 4 people in party couldn't get 10 reactants in 5 min even though we were killing a lot of mobs and tried to cover big area.

I can't even say it's hard to farm them, it's just rng in a place where rng shouldn't be

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I am wondering if they plan on putting endless relics for each level (meso/lilith/axi/neo). By that i mean there would always 4 mini active. And about the timer i always have a lot of delay on the countdown (when compared to other people) i would say like 10s or so.

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Why can we not farm void traces without constantly using relics in endless? It makes no sense as to why I am forced to constantly expunge my relics to get a constant flow of traces when I can rather do capture fissures to quickly farm traces and I don't need to equip a relic.

Currently if you run any endless mission without a relic you only will get traces the first reward rotation, and then after that you will have a constant 10 reactant not allowing you to constantly farm traces. I remember on a devstream Reb said we could use it as a trace farm...

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Some might already have posted the same problem, but here it goes: Endless in Defense Missions they work great. No complaints. But for Survival and/or Excavators, there is a problem. If not everyone continues (they might not have the relics for it) you cannot leave! So every players end up loosing something. Sure, you can get more void traces, but if there's a good item you can't pick it. And for players with relics everytime another does not have relic equiped it is one less chance to get a (good) item. Ence, either everyone continues or everyone leaves... I would like to use them just to farm for void traces solo, however I have realized that they deliver very few. I've done quitte a few endless and after 5 "repetitions" I've never reached 100 traces. While in many other single (easier) missions I can get from 30 up to 50~60 traces... I think you should boost the void traces we get everytime we "repeat/stay" in endles missions.

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it's beyond frustrating to make endless alert based  the additions are really good,

However it's something we already had I could log on anytime I want to play a T4 or T3 Survival  as many times as I had keys  ,but Now  I have to hope to get the kind of mission I enjoy when I have time to play it, and its time limited so if I want my friends to join and do something specific in the mission we may not get organized in time. It works ok for the other mission types because they play the same "Almost" ,but for someone that enjoys a specific endless or just wants to do high level endless the system of making those short alerts makes so people like me will only get missions they want around 15% the time basically I feel it's not worth log on 85% the time   it's totally broken.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

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Awesome change. I wish there would be even more defense mission, the proportions seem to be in favor of non endless missions 80%-20%.

Could there be an endless and a non endless fissure for each era at all times?

Could we get fissures on Lua and the Kuva Fortress too?

On a different note, could we get the option to upgrade relics in fissures?

All in all, super fun to play now ;)

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On 11/14/2016 at 10:15 AM, ssh83 said:

When relic consumption is saved, the reward gained NEED to be saved also.

This right here.

Thought this was a fun change of pace until my game crashed and lost both the relic and reward from relics. Since this game has random crashes on xbox i will be avoiding endless missions like the plague

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The timer on the selection screen for new relics is a problem. It happens so often that players are reading their relic contents in order to make a good choice and then tun out of time and go into the next round without a relic equipped against their choice. 

Can you take that out and instead add in a upgrade funtionality to make relics radiant?

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On December 6, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Hesyol said:

Not enough reactants drop in all endless missions!

In interception we had to leave 1 tower to the enemy or we wouldn't have enough time to farm enough. In survival just now 3 of 4 people in party couldn't get 10 reactants in 5 min even though we were killing a lot of mobs and tried to cover big area.

I can't even say it's hard to farm them, it's just rng in a place where rng shouldn't be

Totally agree fissure excavation and survival totally broken drop rate is way too low and to top it off there is a bug that resets fail attempt eg collect 9 at initial and you get nothing but a total reset of reactants to zero.

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Problem one

Our groups are having problems especially with Lilth survivals getting enough reactant.

Sticking close together and going nuts for 5 mins and ending up with 6 out of 10 is insanely annoying.

Problem two

In survival you can be held hostage not able to leave. Supposedly you can use a bug atm to use your operator and frame to start the timer against the other 3.

But this isn't fair to the ones wishing to stay so please give us a way to leave without buggering the others.

Would be nice if

1. We can get others to join in to the endless after the first relic break. But with a hour / wave limit into the level 80+ mark.

2. If we always had a Lilth , Meso , Neo and Axi endless on the screen. It would also be nice if the time for each was alot longer and we always had a minimum of two each with a possible 4 of each at a time.

I.E minimum amount

Lilths

Survival - x time

Capture - x time

Meso 

Defense - x time

Spy - x time

Neo

Interception - x time

Exterminate - x time

Axi

Excavation - X time

Sabotage - X time

 

It would be nice if you increased the time between relic selection and once all selected it just starts.

It would also be nice if we could upgrade relics when selecting a new relic.

It would also be nice if we never see the same mission type at the same time.

Lilth Exterminate 

Lilth Exterminate 

....😂

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2 hours ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

2. If we always had a Lilth , Meso , Neo and Axi endless on the screen. It would also be nice if the time for each was alot longer and we always had a minimum of two each with a possible 4 of each at a time.

^This!

What is the point of putting in endless fissure missions if they're not going to be available? Seriously, I'm typing this and their isn't one up at all. It happens all the time. I could have sworn Steve said something about having multiple of each era up at all times during one of the dev streams. Not only is that not a thing, but you've defeated the purpose of endless fissures by making them inaccessible.

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The issues with the endless mission right now is that if a syndicate, the Stalker, Vor, or another faction attacks around the interval guess what? Yup you guessed it they will still be attacking you while you are menu locked. Congratulations your whole squad just got killed and mission failed. The enemies should be completely frozen until we have control of our warframe again. Happened to my squad over 6 times so i don't think it was a random fluke. 

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Hi DE Team,

My suggestions :

1) for Endless Fissure Defense, 5 waves for an interval is too higher, because, if we wants wins the 1st free Radiant Relic (so 15 intervals), we must doing 75 waves. 2 waves for an interval must be better, because in 2 waves we can have 10 reactants and 15 intervals is 30 waves.

2) for Endless Fissure Interception, 1 wave is enough but we must speed for have our reactants and we're not sure to have them, so adds more reactants in each waves please.

3) difficult of corrupted ennemies is crazy when we wants the 1st radiant relic. It's a good thing to have difficult (i'm MR 23 and love difficult in games), but, when they are corrupted, they are like little bosses at lvl 100+, and corrupted void ennemies who are corrupted by fissures are very hard to kills (and i've very powerfull weapons)

4) please, adds intervals in normal endless missions (without fissures' specificities like reactants, traces or the relics system for opened it)

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Solo endless is very unviable especially defense as I consistently get 6 reactant by round 5. only manage to start cracking relics after 10. Excavations has broken spawns so either no re actant or powercells. Survival is hit and miss at the first five minutes. no matter how many corrupted I kill no reactant drops till they feel I deserve one. please take a look at this problem and try to address it with a hotfix.

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On December 11, 2016 at 0:18 PM, (PS4)leonidasx666 said:

Some might already have posted the same problem, but here it goes: Endless in Defense Missions they work great. No complaints. But for Survival and/or Excavators, there is a problem. If not everyone continues (they might not have the relics for it) you cannot leave! So every players end up loosing something. Sure, you can get more void traces, but if there's a good item you can't pick it. And for players with relics everytime another does not have relic equiped it is one less chance to get a (good) item. Ence, either everyone continues or everyone leaves... I would like to use them just to farm for void traces solo, however I have realized that they deliver very few. I've done quitte a few endless and after 5 "repetitions" I've never reached 100 traces. While in many other single (easier) missions I can get from 30 up to 50~60 traces... I think you should boost the void traces we get everytime we "repeat/stay" in endles missions.

This is my issue atm too. I say give us the option to extract or fight every interval like a defense mission but with the other types.

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Endless fissures are great but when host leaves and the rest want to stay it's boots them back to ship with none of the rewards or their relics back. I just lost some axi's/rewards I needed. I love the new way this is I just wish it wouldn't skimp my rewards. Please fix this or return my relics when it happens  :sadcry:

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Why did you guys program the endless fissures so that a selected reward is not rewarded after a mission if the person holding the relic the reward came out of left the squad before extraction?

Do you understand what power this gives to players over others and how they can be played with? Let alone that the reward itself is gone while the person leaving continues to have the same relic. 

Your programming punishes bystanders while the misbehavior of other goes unpunished.

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Hi there!

A small feedback on this one.

- Joining public matches is still annoying when you don't have enough time to get reactants (survival should not be joined after 2 minutes)

- endless missions were nice in the past because you could have multiple rewards with 1 key, period. So now, it IS NOT endless mission return, since you just save loading times but that's it (and bonuses are far too low for the time needed to be a good incentive for me)

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i wish you could just skip some of the bonuses li suppose that you are on a defense and you want tasty buffs but you dont want to los 15 relics to get them so the first 5 or 10 intervals you go without relic and on the other 5 you use relics to get the 2X buffs (which are the only ones that matter because seriously you almost dont notice the difference even with the 2X traces buff so its just stupid to have to spend 10 relics to get to a point where you can get worthy buffs) 10 relics are not something easily obtainable its roughtly 3900 cryotic and that suposing you only get 1 relic per AABC rotations (which is the most probably thing cause sometimes you can even get none since the chance have been split between B and C) and that all the relics you get are from the same era (good luck with that. yes im looking at you hieracon).and that only taking the relics you need to start getting worthy buffs if you want to get the 4 tasty ones and the radiant there go 5 relics and if you want another radiant waste 4 relics getting absolutely nothing and on the tenth relig get another anf the cycle continues till you burn all your relics on a mission of more than 2 hours. also if the mission is an excavation good luck with doing it quick cause reactant and cell spawns are completely broken. you will soon get to a point where nothing will spawn.

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Hi Danielle,

I really like the idea behind the new setup, it really makes a lot of fun to play like this for more than just 5 min/waves.

I see however something that is not insync which sooner or later will become a topic.

The tier of fissure missions and the tier of relics we get out of those missions are not the same.

If we start a lith fissure, we get 2 lith relics in the first 10 waves. Until then the balance is even, 2 liths spent, 2 liths granted. 

Thereafter we'd get 2 mesos while continuing to spend 2 liths. Over time, this creates an imbalance in the amount of telics of a tier we have. Now i do not know whether this is intended or not, but if not, it would make sense to combined and align these two areas.

A possible solution could be to start a mission, possibly any mission and play without a relic for 5 waves/min. The relic granted at thst point could then be played out right away, regardless of the mission or relic tier - we get one, we play one. Ideally without the timer in between and with the option to upgrade relics.

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I love them, except when there isn't enough reactant dropped.

I've had excavation missions where enemies stopped spawning for several minutes and we had to scour the map for things to kill.

I've had defense missions where 3/4 people did not have enough reactant because they didn't join in the first wave.

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I have 2 suggestions for endless missions. These suggestions are meant to give an idea. Stats are no way near perfect and are 

open for  balancing

 

1st suggestion (for normal non fissure endless missions)

Increase rewards w.r.t each interval. e.g. getting 1 relic in first c rotation, getting 2 relics of same type in 4th c rotation and getting 5 relics of same type in 10th c rotation. some other rewards also increases w.r.t intervals like  getting 200 endos in a 1st B rotation and amt of endos increases w.r.t intervals. (Just an example, actual reward rates needs to be balanced)

Also rewards per interval can be capped at some point, but they should be decent enough before that point.

 

2nd suggestion (For fissure endless missions, a little tough to explain)

A rare part in random relic has 2% drop rate and radiant one has 8% (not sure abt drop rates)

In endless fissure we get additional 0.5% drop chance for rare part for each interval. 

We get 0.5% additional drop chance for rare part for  relic equipped in interval 2, 1%  (0.5% from first interval + 0.5% from 2nd interval)

additional drop rate for rare part for relic equipped in interval  3 and so on.  This additional drop chance definitely has to be capped at some point, I'd say 5%. 

So for  relics, drop rates for rare part becomes as follows

                        Normal relic                 Radiant relic

Interval 1            2%                                  8%

Interval 2           2.5%                                8.5%

Interval 3           3%                                   9%

"                        "                                       "

"                        "                                       "

Inteval 11          7%                                    13%   

"                        "                                         "

Interval n           7%                                    13%

So if I choose Meso v3 in interval 1, valkyr chassis (rare in that relic) will have a drop chance of 2% for normal relic and if I choose

Meso v5 in interval 11 or interval later then that,  valkyr system (Rare in that relic) will have an drop chance of 7% for normal relic.

 

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Personally, I don't like the new system at all, for 2 main reasons:

1) Risk/Reward. The old void system was great in that the further you got, the more relics you acquired just using one key, so it totally rewarded the risk of staying longer. Even though the new system now gives bonuses the further you go, they aren't enough to counter the fact that I can get more relics easier and faster just redoing the mission rather than playing it endlessly.

2) Quitting. Serious flaw here, as others have already said, in Survival endless you cannot actually quit if your teammates want to keep playing! As I mostly play with randoms, this is a terrible way for endless missions to work.

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recently started playing a bit of the endless fissure missions (did only 2 survivals 30min/60min and 1 defense 40w so far) and i must say i'm surprised to say i love them. Surprised because in the other "non endless" missiontypes i find the reactant collecting takes to much off the main objective. Meaning i find it very tiring and distracting and tideous. But when staying longer in the endless with a group this is not so much the case. Still not a fan of the mechanic, but it becomes more a sidequest that gets completed anyway, which i think was the intention of the reactant mechanic in the first place i assume. This is probably the main half reason i enjoy them, since it is my main poroblem with the other fissure missions.

Other then that, the time slowmotions is super cool. looks + sounds fun, love that little gimiick^^ The relic selection screen and reward selection is fine. I only did premade groups so far in these missions and we had a time/wave till that we wanted to stay. So for that it is fine. Could be a bit problematic in public groups, since you see what relic others have and maybe one half want to open a relic someone has jsut put in, another don't. so there could be some problems for survival, that people want to go early. I would contribute that to the survival mechanic overall not the fissure system tho.

For the missions i like that you get the normal rewards too and it is one of the other half reason i like playing these. you can do 2 things at once, opening relics and farming someback at the same time. So i like the system, but it has some big flaw in that it instantly makes these missions the best relic farming missions in the game by lightyears.  Which i think could make people not play the other non endless stuff.

For example if you farm relics in normal starchat missions you usally need about  5minutes per relics, some faster, some slower, depending on rotations and rng. but lets jsut take this time as a base number here. so i take 5 minutes to get a relic and then i do maybe a capture and it takes a bit longer, i wait in extract. so maybe it takes 5 minutes too. maybe i can get a bit lower. For the sake of the argument lets say it takes 5 too. in these 10 minutes i can do an endless fissure survival/defense, get two a rotations, maybe one relic and open two relics and get the bonus buffs. So it is far more worth it. even if the normal relic farm takes less time and the capture is faster, the endless fissure is still the best option. You still have to farm some normal relic farm missions, since you "burn" more relics most times then you drop, but if you want to open your relic in a fissure mission these outclass "non endless" mission types.

So the normal rewards could be a problem, but it must not be. If people still play other non endless fissure missions then it is probably a good incentive to reward long runs, which is fine. I personaly like it and is a big reason i will do these mission in the future.

Two small improvements i would love to see is on mission UI is: if we are in the reward/relic selection screen or for defense in the stay or extract screen. Dont remeebr excatly which one it is where the buffs show, but some indication what the next buff is maybe. i know the rotation is the same, but it might be a good addition to let people know and maybe someone see "oh i get more drops, maybe i will stay longer". This would help public groups i think. And the secound an indication when the next "free relic" is coming. This information would be nice fore defense in/before the stay/extract screen or in it. So people know, if they stay only like 5 minutes/5 waves more it would be worth it. i assume most player dont know you can get these relics, at least i did not before checking the wiki as when the buffs cap out i stumbled on to this. So it would definilty help these missions if the rewards would be a little more advertised so to speak. In terms of players wanting to play these and finding them worth to play. Both the buffs and relics stuff could be shown at once, maybe if the game would show the fissure  mission special rewards some where for x future waves/minutes/excavator/rounds in endless a head. so yeah would would love to see these small UI info additions in game, since i think it would help group play a lot at when to leave and how long to stay. (it would help realize players that it is worth searching for endless groups in recruitment chat again and bring more live into it too^^ so better advertisement for the treasssssure :thumbup:)

thx for reading and great work, really enjoy the mission and glad i have a fissure type i enjoy ;)

fight on tenno.

 

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