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[DE]Danielle

[TWW] New Tileset: Kuva Fortress Feedback

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I'm actually quite disappointed...

When I first saw the spotlights, I thought I could shoot it out. Doesn't seem to be the case.

I expected Archwing to Land combat and visa versa.

I actually disagree with the Kuva siphon spawning on Kuva Fortress, it just sounds contradictory. Taking in Kuva to where you store it... kinda like withdrawing money and then depositing it right after.

It's dark. Very, very dark. I kinda want to suggest a manual flashlight. I know... what you're thinking, but its either bright on one end or DARK on another. Love the contrast, hate it on the eyes.

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Less hitscan Kohm's please. Also WTB better GPS to exit. the objective arrow is bad at giving them.

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Just did Pago for the first time.

1 vault looked like a reactor and was quite interesting.  It had some cool little shortcut passages, but mostly it was a straight forward hack this, then that, finally the console type vault.  It was a bit disorienting at times because of the number of unused doors in the room, but all in all, it was nifty.

The second two vaults I would not have known I was in the vault if it weren't for the Lotus telling me so.  I literally walked straight in, hacked 1 door and hacked the console to complete the vault.  There wasn't even a nifty hidden route, dangerous enemies to avoid, or complex securtiy systems to disable.  It was just 1 door, 1 terminal.  There was a jailor or something or other in one of the vaults, but he could have been easily avoided, and I wouldn't have noted his presence had he not survived my initial stealth attack.

Lastly, there were a number of areas with unnecessarily bottomless pits, visible holes in the level geometry (I made a bug report post about those), and areas which LOOK like you can transition to archwing, but really they're just bottomless pits.

The GPS on the map was really bad at times.

I was hoping for a bit more of a ninja challenge.

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I feel that--as I see others do as well--that having invincible cameras is a big hassle. If anything, just have them stop at the point where they were destroyed, so that while they'll still be on, they won't be moving any more. Hek, they can even be unaffected by all except Operator Void powers, but then they'd still be affect-able.

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13 minutes ago, AandOE said:

If anything, just have them stop at the point where they were destroyed, so that while they'll still be on, they won't be moving any more.

or perhaps temporary disablement. i guess.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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On 17/11/2016 at 10:12 PM, Chalef said:

Kuva Fortress... unfortunately disappointed me.

Don't get me wrong, there's been some very very nice design to it, it's beautiful (for being a fortress within an asteroid that is), however that's exactly the issue. It's only.. beautiful. It offers nothing new except a change of scenery. I completely hate to admit that, I honestly do not feel any need or urge to go back there and replay them. Because there's no incentive or rewards attached to them.

This new tileset is beautiful, music is great and I really love the atmosphere. But I'm disappointed too, because I was waiting for a tileset populated by a high(er)-level enemy. Somewhere between level 60 and 100.

After so many planets for new players it would have been pleasing to finally see a planet for vets, or just for players who like a good challenge.

"Play through and experience some of our most difficult and heavily fortified missions yet." - I can finish these missions on the Fortress without breaking a sweat, so I'll just skip this tileset and replay sorties instead.

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Until Kuva resource is added to the tileset (either as drop from enemies, endless missions, or caches) there won't be any incentive to visit it after clearing the nodes for the first time.

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On 11/12/2016 at 8:58 AM, AdunSaveMe said:

I still think the orokin tower and moonbase tilesets are the best looking

The best thing I like in the Kuva fortress is the enemy spawn rate, in other survivals we often just running around to find the enemies, in the Kuva fort. the supply is decent.
The tiles are sometimes hard to navigate through, it is most likely intentional since it is a fortress.
I wish there were more purpose to go there(kuva fort, LUA oroking moon), it's hard to find a team sometimes.

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I have to ask, what's the incentive to come back to this area after finishing it? For the moon tileset, there's unique enemies and missions that drop exclusive mods.

 

So, what's the reason to come back this time around in terms of rewards?

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Ok. I've been pretty down on DE recently, but on the topic of the Kuva Fortress tileset, I have nothing but good things to day. I think it is legitimately the very best tileset in the entire game in terms of level design.

 

Aesthetics/Atmosphere

Wonderfully dark and foreboding, winding and labyrinthine, with a constant air of menace and need for alertness, balanced by dark hidden corners. More than any other tileset in the game, being on the Kuva Fortress feels like being on hostile ground, in the enemy's house. I like how much it feels like, well, imperial Grineer. It's the most flawless Grineer installation, unlike their ramshackle ground settlements and crude, submarine-esque battleships. I like the sound design of the levels, the constant screeching announcements, the rumble of huge guns. The propaganda stencils, the parade grounds, the sheer size of some of those tiles, it is a fortress, a true military headquarters.
        The view from the external decks is spectacular. The constant motion of the rocks is a reminder that you're in the middle of a swirling maelstrom of space debris, hidden and kept safe in the midst of ship-wrecking danger.

I love it.

 

Gameplay and Level Design

This is gonna sound odd, but bear with me: I think the Kuva Fortress is the very first tileset in the entire game which is designed to account for the fact that the Tenno are ninjas. At first glance, the place is practically impenetrable. Every approach has multiple layers of gates and watch towers, and the indestructible fortress scanners watch every ramp and every door. If your first instinct as a player is to charge in and start blowing things up, you will rapidly find yourself in the middle of a pitched battle, getting hit from all sides by explosions and shrapnel while your ears ring from the sirens.
               However.....when you attempt stealth, what becomes apparent is that out of every single tileset in the entire game, the Kuva Fortress makes the very best use of verticality. For players who enjoy stealth runs, the Kuva Fortress is a revelation. Every access port is multi-leveled. Every nest of scanners can be bypassed by making the right jumps, the right wallruns. On the fortress exterior, the sheer depth of the playable area is spectacular. When you go high, every bridge and tunnel connecting the asteroids can be overlooked from sniping positions, every watchtower and pillbox can be reached by defying gravity and pulling off a long bullet jump. When you go low, you can sneak through the under-rails and get through the ventilation shafts, because there are almost no heavily guarded entrances which don't have flaws, gaps in the coverage.

 

For anyone who thinks that the Fortress is odd or not fun, I suggest doing the following: equip a Warframe which does not have invisibility. Load one of the Exilus mods for enhancing bullet jumps. Bring your favourite bow. Set yourself a goal of not setting off any alarms. Get yourself into the mindset of a sociopath space ninja, and remind yourself that you're not here to fight the Grineer. You're here to hunt them.
               It's frigging great.

 

 

 

So yes. Top notch. The best designed tileset in the entire game, very clearly designed to encourage multiple playstyles and reward players for being sneaky and athletic.

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The Kuva fortress has absolutely wonderful atmosphere, but I feel that its dangerous, foreboding appearance does not match its actual danger level. I was expecting that setting off an alarm would entail running through a woodchipper to extraction, but it was only a little more dangerous than the other tilesets. That said, I really enjoy doing stealth runs in the fortress because its atmosphere alone makes it feel rewarding.

The invulnerable cameras are also a little irritating. If we don't have a way to break them or lock them in place, it would be nice to have a console or system somewhere that we can sneak into to sabotage them as an alternative stealth solution.

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Kuva Fort is the best tileset todate.

Issues:

- Indestructable cameras

- AW label is misleading

- No good reason to return after unlocking each mission node.

- Kuva Syphon missions should be a separate mission and be locked to only those that have completed the quest - maybe require the use of a key?   I came across a Kuva Syphon mission before I had completed the quest and had no idea what was going on.

 

 

 

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The Assault mission, the "destroying the galleon"... I expected a big explosion, instead there are a set of smaller ones, the ship turns dark and then goes "Exit stage left".

Also: Floating rocks

fyHFWTN.jpg

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I think the 'exit stage left galleon' was a time crunch thing.

I really like the Kuva tileset as well. Really good tileset overall, I can see the work and thought that went into it.

There are a few tweaks that need to be made, map waypointing being an important one. I'm sure DE is working on those tweaks.

But I REALLY want there to be a unique set of rewards. A reason to go in there and really hunt around. You've got unique spy vaults, a variant of caches and an overall great tileset. But without any rewards that can be found elsewhere, my only reason to go there is a good droprate on neural sensors. I mean, of course they don't have to be radically different, but there should be something.

Kuva is a good start. I'd find it silly to find siphons there, but why not have kuva in spy vaults or exterminate caches? Not much, wouldn't wanna crowd out siphon missions, but it seems like there should be some of it around somewhere. A chance for some to appear on rotation C of survival/defense missions also seems suitable. Imagine void missions increasing the amount of kuva found on every fourth round? Yay endless missions! Another thing that might be a draw would be a higher spawnrate of rare containers? Those things are so incredibly rare, I wonder how many players have never heard that hum. And we all know there are mods that currently exist only in event droptables...

Or hey, maybe DE already has some stuff in the works, it just didn't make it in time. They've already lamented their poor time management involved in TWW. The making of the Tileset and the story mission was the hard part. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if most of the current missions rewards are placeholders. That's what I'm hoping anyways.

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Really good map design, the feeling and aesthetics are incredible.

Also, the trap system is a great way of adding a layer of challenge that isn't directly linked to the enemies we fight, making the Kuva Fortress Exterminate mission the only exterminate mission i have fun running.

 

Though, there are a number of bad sides:

  • the scatter mines, or whatever they're called, do WAY too much damage on a too short sound cue. Probably lenghtening the timer before activation would be better
  • There is absolutely no incentive in going there

To incentivise more going there, i'd say a couple of things could happen

  • Add Kuva Guardians to the spawn rotation, and a moderate amount of Kuva (say 40-60) to the drop table of the Guardians
  • Add Kuva Siphon/Flood missions on the Fortress OR BETTER make a new kind of Kuva mission which is endless, gives less Kuva per siphon but it's the Siphon equivalent of Excavation in the Fortress
  • MAKE IT A SORTIE LOCATION. Particularly the Assault mission. Since Sorties now unlock after TWW completion, there is absolutely no reason why this isn't a thing, and a Sortie Assault would be incredibly interesting.
  • On a side note, the Fortress Assault mission needs a LOT more mobs spawning in the tile. It's way too empty for what the mission is (which is the worst sabotage we do to a Grineer installation in the whole starchart) 

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does this tileset adjust depending on the mission?

Cause i just did the first mission on the map, the extermination mission, and it looked like i was playing the same map as TWW took place in.

I soloed it , for some reason it was empty in public, and i actually, i think, spent half the time running around because enemies were spawning so far apart cause this stage is sooooo big.

You need compact version, adjusted versions, for different missions.

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On 12/8/2016 at 6:03 AM, Autongnosis said:

Really good map design, the feeling and aesthetics are incredible.

Also, the trap system is a great way of adding a layer of challenge that isn't directly linked to the enemies we fight, making the Kuva Fortress Exterminate mission the only exterminate mission i have fun running.

 

Though, there are a number of bad sides:

  • the scatter mines, or whatever they're called, do WAY too much damage on a too short sound cue. Probably lenghtening the timer before activation would be better
  • There is absolutely no incentive in going there

To incentivise more going there, i'd say a couple of things could happen

  • Add Kuva Guardians to the spawn rotation, and a moderate amount of Kuva (say 40-60) to the drop table of the Guardians
  • Add Kuva Siphon/Flood missions on the Fortress OR BETTER make a new kind of Kuva mission which is endless, gives less Kuva per siphon but it's the Siphon equivalent of Excavation in the Fortress
  • MAKE IT A SORTIE LOCATION. Particularly the Assault mission. Since Sorties now unlock after TWW completion, there is absolutely no reason why this isn't a thing, and a Sortie Assault would be incredibly interesting.
  • On a side note, the Fortress Assault mission needs a LOT more mobs spawning in the tile. It's way too empty for what the mission is (which is the worst sabotage we do to a Grineer installation in the whole starchart) 

it already is a sortie location.

also regarding the feedback, ill just say its cool but it is listed as an mix between normal and archwing mode and so far there has not been a single instance in the kuva fortress that makes me go archwing mode, really would  love to be able to enter in archwing mode at will in missions marked as archwing hybrid

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2 hours ago, Huanthus said:

it already is a sortie location.

also regarding the feedback, ill just say its cool but it is listed as an mix between normal and archwing mode and so far there has not been a single instance in the kuva fortress that makes me go archwing mode, really would  love to be able to enter in archwing mode at will in missions marked as archwing hybrid

Yeah i realised that Yesterday when the sortie happened, thought it wasn't since there was no indication of it in the patch notes while instead the Moon was actually listed.

And 100% agree on the AW part, thought we would be able to use AW to move around the more open areas such as the cannon area in the  Assault mission. Also, as far as i can tell the AW insertion tile that TWW quest uses is not used anywhere else which is really unfortunate.

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8 hours ago, Huanthus said:

also regarding the feedback, ill just say its cool but it is listed as an mix between normal and archwing mode and so far there has not been a single instance in the kuva fortress that makes me go archwing mode, really would  love to be able to enter in archwing mode at will in missions marked as archwing hybrid

While I'm not a fan of the current control scheme of archwing, I would be more than happy to see the whole archwing system tied more closely into the usual gameplay. My biggest gripe with archwing is that it seems barely related to the game at large and as such it seems like unfortunately wasted effort.

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Wow.

The Kuva tile set shows just how much DE's level designers have learned in years of working on Warframe. It's brilliant in its maze-like lattice of ingress and egress points. It is vertical, deep, and invites you to use your ninja skills to the fullest. And let's not forget the artists and lighting folk that brought this place to life. Thank you to all that worked on this. Your hard work paid off: it really is an accomplishment.

As a solo player, I loved Assault. But please, offer some kind of interesting reward for solo Assault play in the Kuva fortress. Let me make progress, even if slow progress, on getting Kuva. I don't like playing Sorties, and frankly my frames are just not equipped for that. I love to go solo, love to stealth, and I want to spend lots of time in the Kuva fortress. Let me find cool loot there of some sort!

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The Kuva Fortress Tileset was a very cool addition to the game overall it felt like.

Showing the more advanced technology of the Grineer, combined with the new music and focus on the Grinner Queens, helped flesh out the Grinner Faction a lot more compared to before.

For the Assault mission type, it was interesting to have a long mission type. And from this, I would also enjoy seeing similar types of Assault missions appear on previous planets & possible new Planets/Locations as well.

The Defense hazards from the Defense mission were interesting and spiced up the defense missions, but a way to temporarily disable any one of the natural hazards of that map I feel would be helpful, rather than having all traps be completely immune to being disabled/destroyed. It could potentially be done through a computer console that needs to be hacked, and each time it is hacked, it disables one trap for a small period of time

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