Discussing the problems with Riven mods and their egregious RNG

[-EP-Fenris72-Prime-]

16 hours ago, hukurokuju5 said:

aber ich denke, der Schlüssel, was eine Mission abschließt, ohne den Boden zu berühren und Schaden zu nehmen, kombiniert mit der Tötung erf

 

 

16 hours ago, CaptainDavian said:

Ich muss tun Mission auszurotten, wo ich ohne jeden Feind zu töten, während entdeckt zu werden Tragen hinkte Drachen Schlüssel und Feinde über lvl 30 sein muss.

Und jetzt Feinde nicht toten Körper zu ignorieren, welche die Stealth-Kills ist ruiniert 

ich hasse mein Leben

Ist das extermination oder extinction

[GreenVajene]

I got aim glide 5 headshots, hobbled. This is my formula for success:

1. Tittyania with max aimglide and speed (she has an aimglide boost as her passive).
2. Soma/Prime with max fire rate.
3. Get a friend with Equinox.
4. Go to Earth excavation.
5. Friend waits for clusters of Grinners, then sleeps them.
6. Jump+aimglide+spray'n'pray at above-neck-level.

Tried a number of weapons. Ignis and Penta were fail. You definitely want a high fire rate/accuracy/magazine weapon.

Shots to the head don't seem to count; they have to be headshot kills.

**BE WARNED, WEIRD BUG**

I found going into fairy mode will cancel the mod (for whatever crazy reason). I unlocked the mod, went into fairy, then it suddenly showed as 0/5 again, and said it unlocked when I returned from mission, but in inventory it was still locked, had to run again. Might want to be careful with channeled abilities with these mods.

Edited November 13, 2016 by GreenVajene

[Zaniel_Aus]

21 hours ago, JSharpie said:

So don't do it? You have a choice. Just so you know though, the mod I got was quite good.

Great? So some people get god mods that are easy to unlock and other people get garbage mods with impossible unlocks. Sounds balanced to me.

[notlamprey]

1 hour ago, Zaniel_Aus said:

Great? So some people get god mods that are easy to unlock and other people get garbage mods with impossible unlocks. Sounds balanced to me.

I'm beginning to edge toward "dawning horror" regarding this new mod system.

Stat-RNG gone mad, and the trading market gone madder still. Even if DE were to try putting this mess back in the tube, how would they begin? I don't know how they could survive that heartburn, and I fear this mess is here to stay.

 

[Volinus7]

WF is a game that RNG doesn't govern your equipments. I played this game because I was tired of those RPG BiS maxed stats random rolled equipments.

If I can vote, I vote for total removal of riven mods.

[Demon.King]

16 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

WF is a game that RNG doesn't govern your equipments. I played this game because I was tired of those RPG BiS maxed stats random rolled equipments.

If I can vote, I vote for total removal of riven mods.

Or just remove the RNG from Riven mods and make them a set of mods with fixed stats that are still unlocked by completing tasks (+ No more stupid tasks and no crap stats please)

Edited November 13, 2016 by Demon.King

[Shockwave-]

17 hours ago, POSIX said:

How ever am I going to do that? /s

I don't like the RNG nature of those mods either. Hopefully they rework that system soon.

Put ember on.... doesn't say you have to use the weapon to do it.... Just says don't use ammo consumables. I had one that was kill sentients while sliding but i didn't have to use the weapon, i could use my other weapons, so I assume here that using frame to kill would work.

[Shockwave-]

8 hours ago, Necromanrius said:

I've got the capture synthesis target with hobbled key and without traps or abilities or taking damage.

Which is hard enough by itself, but even worse since I can't seem to even find a target!

does it say you have to be alone? Find an exterminate with the target, have a friend run ahead and kill everything in the map. Then have them use an ability (like Trninty well) to hold the target and then you scan it.

[Shockwave-]

5 hours ago, GreenVajene said:

I got aim glide 5 headshots, hobbled. This is my formula for success:

1. Tittyania with max aimglide and speed (she has an aimglide boost as her passive).
2. Soma/Prime with max fire rate.
3. Get a friend with Equinox.
4. Go to Earth excavation.
5. Friend waits for clusters of Grinners, then sleeps them.
6. Jump+aimglide+spray'n'pray at above-neck-level.

Tried a number of weapons. Ignis and Penta were fail. You definitely want a high fire rate/accuracy/magazine weapon.

Shots to the head don't seem to count; they have to be headshot kills.

**BE WARNED, WEIRD BUG**

I found going into fairy mode will cancel the mod (for whatever crazy reason). I unlocked the mod, went into fairy, then it suddenly showed as 0/5 again, and said it unlocked when I returned from mission, but in inventory it was still locked, had to run again. Might want to be careful with channeled abilities with these mods.

Fairy mode uses archwing weapons right? Since it puts away they weapon with the mod that might have something to do with it, not all channeled abilities.

[shiny_pants]

On 11/12/2016 at 1:28 AM, Plasmaface said:

TLDR: The Riven mods seem to have really obtuse and un-fun leveling requirements. The RNG is nuts and needs to be toned down. 

If you've completed The War Within, you should have received a Riven mod. The mod I received apparently applies to rifles, and the condition required to level it is unusual.

Instead of pouring in endo, I need to acquire 3 rare syndicate medallions without setting off any alarms. So the first thing I did was switch my mode to Solo and enter a syndicate spy mission. I made progress as usual, until 2 of those new Kuva guards showed up out of nowhere and utterly ruined my stealth run. I don't even think I like the idea of having to level a mod by fulfilling a tricky special requirement, but if the game is going to throw new elements at me, making it far more difficult than it should be to achieve my goals there isn't even any point in trying. It's not even worth the frustration. 

Even if the Kuva guards hadn't shown up, the requirement of finding rare medallions without triggering alarms seems obtuse and really just not fun. I've never played Warframe for stealth, I feel like the game was never designed for it. It just doesn't seem like a good idea to make that a requirement. As different or interesting as it may be, it's a real pain to scour every inch of the map in hopes of finding a rare medallion just to find out what this mod even does. 

Edit 1. I have just found that the game lies about the requirements. It says that it needs 3 rare medallions, but in reality any 3 will have the same effect. I'm not sure why the listed requirements are wrong, but they are. 

Edit 2. The Mod I got is for the Gorgon. An under-powered weapon that nobody willingly uses outside of farming MR. 

Edit 3. Why are these mods weapon specific? Why do I have an interesting mod that I can only use on an objectively bad weapon? As long as my mod is limited to the gorgon, the mod is worthless to me. 

There is simply too much RNG involved in this. The unlock requirements are downright insane for some people I have seen, the stats range from godlike to utter trash, you can only get more Riven mods from Sortie RNG, and you need loads of Kuva to re-roll your Riven mods. Oh, and did I mention how unpleasant it feels to farm Kuva? It's flat out not reliable, and you can try all day without getting a single Kuva Siphon to harvest from. 

Allowing RNG to determine a mods stats means throwing balance straight out the window. I've seen Riven mods that are absolutely game-breaking, and I've seen some that are truly worthless, like mine.

 

Now for some potential solutions:

Easily the largest problem with Riven mods is that you must contend with multiple layers of RNG to get one, and then you can only hope that the final layer RNG gives you a mod with good stats that isn't tied to a useless weapon (Gorgon, anyone?). 

So the most obvious solution is to remove at least 1 layer of RNG. I suggest removing Riven mods from sorties and making them a guaranteed reward from alerts, with identical frequency to Nitain extract. That's still RNG, but it would feel much better than wasting an hour on arduous sorties and getting nothing good in return.

I also think it's a good idea to lift the individual weapon restriction on Riven mods. Let a Rifle Riven mod be used on any rifle. My mod is only usable on the Gorgon, and the Gorgon is useless. If I could put it on a Penta or Supra it might actually be worth using. 

I've got 2 riven mods thus far. One from the quest and one from sortie. The first one requires me to kill 65 enemies in a row undetected and the other one to per form 20 kills consecutively while wall jumping without touching the ground once.

It took me a while to do that but I think they're some fun challenges.

My only problem is that I cannot use the mods even though I'm mastery rank 18 while the mods only requires rank 9 and 11 respectively to use. 

Hope DE read this post and patch this up soon

 

[--Q--XFA]

The whole system reminds me of re-calibration table in the Division which is kinda un-fun.

[Multicom-EN-]

Riven mods need to go or be toned the hell down. I have seen some game breaking mods. And wny are these mods even allowed on the best weapons in the game? 

i,e Tonkor, Simulor etc....

[Sahansral]

1 minute ago, Multicom-EN- said:

Riven mods need to go or be toned the hell down. I have seen some game breaking mods. And wny are these mods even allowed on the best weapons in the game? 

i,e Tonkor, Simulor etc....

Not only will these mods widen the gap between toptier and mediocre weapons; because of the huge demand and therefore expensive trading prices, people will get mad if DE changes any of these mods. I can't comprehend why they released these kind of mods after already realizing and mentioning the problems of damage 2.0 in the dev streams...*really confused*

[Osmenion]

My only question on the Riven mods would be: do we really want mods like these to exist in a game that already massively struggles with game balance and powercreep? 

After so much talk about re-balancing weapons, mods and enemies (e.g. armor scaling), it feels like game balance has now been thrown out the window entirely. Instead of scaling things back, now we have mods (and the artificial market introduced with them, undoubtedly making DE a lot of money) that are way stronger than anything we have ever seen in the entire game so far. I just really don't understand the direction this is going.

A mod for the Soma with +135% damage, +1.7 punch through and +119.2 % critical chance... why would I ever use any other weapon in the game ever again? For a first attempt at randomizing mods, the Riven mods and their implications for the game are a pretty horrible result imho.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Osmenion

[QQSausage]

DE  ==>  DƎ

 

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

On 11/12/2016 at 3:05 AM, jofdeath said:

The mods them self are stupidly powerful, and random generated

[

there more or less weapon specific godly powerful mods, required 6 sentient kills, and used 7k endo to max out after its uncaped

Well the idea of balance was nice while it lasted.

[3thereal]

Yeah they really should of made these Random but with two caveats:

 

1. Since you have to equip the mod on the weapon to complete the challenge the Riven Mod should get associated with THAT weapon (type). I.E. Run a mission with your dread, you get a dread mod etc

2. Make it so that you can re-roll certain stats on it without the all of the attributes. You like the crit chance on it? Great keep it and re-roll one of the other 2 attributes.

[Tricky5hift]

Riven mods shouldn't be flat buffs/nerfs that only makes them even more prone to powercreep abuse.

[Chico141]

I unlocked the 2 I got, I just don't know what weapon they fit.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6lPUo-l2vh4bkxDd2RrcGo1RUU/view?usp=sharing

Im trying to insert Pic, is not working.

[Brynslustafir]

I don't know if it would be too difficult to implement, but I thought of perhaps letting us choose which weapon the mod works on by putting it on that weapon before unlocking it's effects. 

When I unlocked my Gorgon mod, it was equipped on my Dread. Just saying. 

If this change ever makes it's way into the public build, it would get rid of 1 annoying layer of RNG. 

[Luxpluff]

8 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

WF is a game that RNG doesn't govern your equipments. I played this game because I was tired of those RPG BiS maxed stats random rolled equipments.

If I can vote, I vote for total removal of riven mods.

This. I left games like Diablo 3 and Dungeon Defenders for the exact same reason. I know DE couldn't care less about one less player playing their game, but if this mechanic is not changed I'll end up leaving Warframe as well

[Multicom-EN-]

4 hours ago, Sahansral said:

Not only will these mods widen the gap between toptier and mediocre weapons; because of the huge demand and therefore expensive trading prices, people will get mad if DE changes any of these mods. I can't comprehend why they released these kind of mods after already realizing and mentioning the problems of damage 2.0 in the dev streams...*really confused*

I know right? It makes 0 sense. Makes me think that damage 3.0 is not cming...

[notlamprey]

10 minutes ago, Luxpluff said:

This. I left games like Diablo 3 and Dungeon Defenders for the exact same reason. I know DE couldn't care less about one less player playing their game, but if this mechanic is not changed I'll end up leaving Warframe as well

Agreed. I play Warframe because its loot systems avoided this stuff.

I'm deeply disappointed, because it feels like they have sacrificed the greatest strength of Warframe's player progression system: its "knowability." Now, different copies of the same mod don't even grant the same bonuses!

People are scamming each other for huge sums of plat over these things, and other folks have discovered that you can farm {nope} for obscene amounts of ducats.

What a mess.

[mothrascales]

For me personally, Riven mods stink of Skinner Box mechanics tied with desperate and long term RNG. I'd love to see the math of how many sortie runs it would take on average to finally get the Riven mod for the gun you want - stats non withstanding. My personal hope is that they are removed from the game completely ASAP and then re worked so that instead of random they are able to be customized at least to the gun you're using. I got a Riven mod for the Laser Rifle - a sentinel gun (and a bad one at that in my opinion). I don't even equip my sentinels with weapons because I don't want them getting aggro. It's disheartening mechanics that I had hoped to never see in one of my favorite games.

[Luxpluff]

10 minutes ago, mothrascales said:

For me personally, Riven mods stink of Skinner Box mechanics tied with desperate and long term RNG. I'd love to see the math of how many sortie runs it would take on average to finally get the Riven mod for the gun you want - stats non withstanding. My personal hope is that they are removed from the game completely ASAP and then re worked so that instead of random they are able to be customized at least to the gun you're using. I got a Riven mod for the Laser Rifle - a sentinel gun (and a bad one at that in my opinion). I don't even equip my sentinels with weapons because I don't want them getting aggro. It's disheartening mechanics that I had hoped to never see in one of my favorite games.

I find it really, really unlikely they are even touched upon by DE, much less removed entirely. Each new update just throws a new mechanic at the player base in order to sell more, without expanding on previous mechanics (remember the Focus school mechanic? It was supposed to be a major mechanic, but has hardly been touched since its introduction).

If they do revisit them, I would love if they followed a suggestion made in another thread that I found quite interesting: make these mods count as 2 mods fused together, effectively saving up 1 mod slot. E. g., a +Dmg +Reload Speed riven mod would give the same bonuses as a Serration and a Fast Hands of the same ranks, and one wouldn't be allowed to equip that riven mod alongside either of Serration and Fast Hands.

Additionaly, it would be great if a) we had some control over which weapon the mod will be restricted to; b) the unveiling tasks were balanced; and c) kuva farming was less obnoxious (having 1 event trigger every 10 missions is not okay).