[SPOILER] Post War Within confusion/questions

[Akavakaku]

5 hours ago, Spiral.mp4 said:

Since this thread turned into *@##$ing about the operator instead of confusion and questions I'll post some of each.

At the end of second dream the operator could barely move. That limit really drove home the fact that we where using something we shouldn't be. A pod kid who hasn't moved in years. So why now are we suddenly able to run, jump and generally be acrobatic and talkative? it seems very left-field

The twin queens refer to your warframe as an "infested puppet" and "metal cyst' combined with our newfound ability to straight-up possess our frames and the golden maw. Does this mean we will eventually be able to possess and control infested?

Why do the queens want the tenno? does continuity only work within the same species? did they want our void powers?

What is this lie everyone refers to? The mission flashback things where hardly shocking revelations

What is the point to our options with the mcguffin goo? I drank it, had some weird father memory and briefly saw forever

and why am I mad at the lotus?

1: Cryo stasis left us physically weakened, we've probably been recovering gradually. 

2: Theoretically, sure. I don't see much use of that though. 

3: The Red Queen was tired of using Continuity to take clone bodies, and wanted a real Orokin body again. 

4: Margulis obscured the Tenno's history from them to ease their pain. Before this moment we had no memory of the Zariman, or anything before Margulis found us. 

5: We don't know the full consequences of our choices yet. But if you drank the kuva, you have chosen to embrace the chaos of the Void. Also, the creepy "possession" happens regardless of your choice, but you say a different line.

6: I don't know, that's just your opinion. 

[Spiral.mp4]

2 minutes ago, Akavakaku said:

6: I don't know, that's just your opinion

the operator seems kinda peeved, this may be because I drank the kool aid

[Akavakaku]

Just now, Spiral.mp4 said:

the operator seems kinda peeved, this may be because I drank the kool aid

The Operator's lines aren't affected by your choices, except for the line you say right after making a choice. Not sure what you're referring to though. 

[Miser_able]

The operator is still being worked on. For example DE said they were working on making it possible to possess other enemies like with the ravenous golden maw (why did it have to be ravenous?)

[Kaotyke]

26 minutes ago, Spiral.mp4 said:

the operator seems kinda peeved, this may be because I drank the kool aid

 

24 minutes ago, Akavakaku said:

The Operator's lines aren't affected by your choices, except for the line you say right after making a choice. Not sure what you're referring to though. 

He meant the line you make before going back to the Mountain Pass and Destroying/Controlling/Consuming the Kuva.

It wasnt that we were angry at Lotus, its more like that the Tenno no longer wants excuses made for their mistakes any longer.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[Noabettiet]

I sort of get the point of making the operator extremely vulnerable.

The problems to the void beam are linked to the madurai skill tree however, welcome to our pain. The ridiculously underpowered skill tree.

[Horaciozhao]

On 12/11/2016 at 11:38 PM, nelu_Y3K said:

So the quest unlocked the ability to use the operator in combat. But he/she seems to have only 100 hp, no shields and no damage also the warframe is completely vulnerable while your out of it. I have to ask is there any point to using the operators in combat (except for obtaining Kuva)? Is there some special way of playing operators ore some way of modding them to make them stronger?

 

Also Ordis mentioned clearing the infested door in the orbiter once the quest was completed. Is there some way to clear it. or was this just a tease from the devs?

right now, it´s not for combat, only for getting kuva, but the devs said in the last devstream that operator gameplay will interact with focus schools somehow in future updates

[Beartornado]

On 11/12/2016 at 4:44 PM, Raniu said:

Well, you can basically teleport to otherwise unreachable places without playing a Loki.

Also, the new mechanic opens up opportunities, let's wait and see what amazing stuff can DE think up :)

I'm disappointed only that DE didn't release more content that makes use of the new operator mode that most likely caused so many delays to refine. It's clear it was intended to create alternative ways to fight and play the game.

Hopefully they create or rework Orokin void/derelict/moon tilesets with new challenges that involve taking control of orokin constructs to complete puzzles. Hell I've been having wet dreams about the thought of DE creating an Orokin-type raid involving 4-8 operators taking control of sections of a massive experimental kinetic defense platform to protect the moon or some other objective from a grineer/corpus/sentient invasion force seeking to decisively control the moon.

Realistically, there's no way they can make the operator replace any aspect of the warframe. Rather, the operator is meant to do new things that warframes cant, possibly even complimenting your warframe's combat without overshadowing it (I.E. at least we can reset sentinel/stalker damage immunity with the beam).

Edited November 30, 2016 by Beartornado

[Spiral.mp4]

4 hours ago, Venom-Snake said:

It wasnt that we were angry at Lotus, its more like that the Tenno no longer wants excuses made for their mistakes any longer.

That's just what's confusing me. My lore is a bit rusty.. but does the operator blame themselves for being tricked into turning on the orokin? was it a mistake to defend themselves in the void? What mistakes are being excused here?

 

5 hours ago, Akavakaku said:

1: Cryo stasis left us physically weakened, we've probably been recovering gradually. 

I'm late in getting back to this, but it's the crux of my confusion. Sure at one point the operators where regular children. But after years of likely being stuck in pods, then in cyro, then back to exclusively living through a warframe I struggle to accept that they haven't atrophied to the point of immobility. I can accept them being aware of transferance and able to pull back from it, maybe even lash out should somebody try and mess with their pod. but freedom of movement and physicality in meat-space shouldn't be possible. We should be uncomfortable, even afraid to step out.

The outside world is an abstraction viewed through the warframe. Even awoken I believe the operators should exist in a dreamlike state where nothing is really real beyond the static, warm comfort of their steel womb

[Kaotyke]

9 minutes ago, Spiral.mp4 said:

That's just what's confusing me. My lore is a bit rusty.. but does the operator blame themselves for being tricked into turning on the orokin? was it a mistake to defend themselves in the void? What mistakes are being excused here?

"You were only just a child."

That is an excuse. It means that all your actions and mistakes, no matter what they are, cant be put on yourself, after all: "You are just a child, what do you know? How could you have known? You are not responsable for you actions, your mistakes. I, your father/mother/guardian, am."

Edited November 30, 2016 by Venom-Snake

[Beartornado]

34 minutes ago, Spiral.mp4 said:

 

I'm late in getting back to this, but it's the crux of my confusion. Sure at one point the operators where regular children. But after years of likely being stuck in pods, then in cyro, then back to exclusively living through a warframe I struggle to accept that they haven't atrophied to the point of immobility. I can accept them being aware of transferance and able to pull back from it, maybe even lash out should somebody try and mess with their pod. but freedom of movement and physicality in meat-space shouldn't be possible. We should be uncomfortable, even afraid to step out.

The outside world is an abstraction viewed through the warframe. Even awoken I believe the operators should exist in a dreamlike state where nothing is really real beyond the static, warm comfort of their steel womb

The War Within basically confirms that we aren't quite human and we aren't fully inhuman either. After acquiring our Void Dash Teshin tells us that we "Exist on the fold between two worlds," referring to what we consider normal reality as the world of "blood and steel" and the world of the Void as the one that "dreams and watches." I think it's clear that the tenno are more resilient than a normal human would be without being significantly reliant on the void to survive and exist. 

More importantly, the Tenno grew up as normal human children, you wouldn't so easily forget what it was like to experience and interact with reality as a human. It's the reason warframes were designed with a baseline of humanoid shapes and genders. I don't think their view through the warframe was that abstract at all. It's intended to be as close as possible to what their normal bodies were like while still being capable of withstanding their power. And there's a lot of mounting evidence that the core flesh within a Warframe is in fact an infested body, meaning it's far from a steel womb. In TSD Hunhow was clearly misinformed about the true nature of warframes when he referred to them as being merely "metal puppets." 

And we're talking about absurdly advanced technology in general, well beyond the realm of possibility. Whose to say transference pods and cryopods aren't designed to mitigate that kind of atrophy, or at least allow for a faster recovery afterwards. Considering all the tenno were concentrated into the Orokin moon base, it seems pretty shortsighted to ensure they'd be absolutely useless outside of their pods if they ever had to move them in an emergency (I.E., an angry vengeful sentient finds a way to force the moon out of the void).

Edited November 30, 2016 by Beartornado