DE we NEED to have a serious talk about Riven mods

[TheSketchDevice]

I  case you all missed it.

 

[Doothers]

50 minutes ago, TheSketchDevice said:

I  case you all missed it.

 

If we dont get refunded the kuva we spent on trying to reroll a bunch I'm gonna be kinda tilted :/

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

5 hours ago, TheSketchDevice said:

I  case you all missed it.

 

 

4 hours ago, DeathHeart64 said:

If we dont get refunded the kuva we spent on trying to reroll a bunch I'm gonna be kinda tilted :/

• Any word on removing the 15 mod cap?
• I know she reinforced the idea in dev workshop part 1 but do they really intend on keeping it that way?
• Are we really supposed to risk getting banned with alt mod holding accounts, or simply destroy Rivens for a whopping 23 Endo?
• No word on refund for lost kuva either?
• Rejecting or accepting a roll is much better than what we currently have but we need the option to lock in stats, in exchange for making the Riven mod permanently untradeable
• After cycle 10 does the cycle cost cap? 3600 kuva is around 6 siphons no booster, and this is going to burn players out fast, especially if it keeps increasing
• What happens to the people who dropped thousands of plat on god rolls? As a F2P game you cant just piss off the whales - which is definitely going to happen - if their 5000 plat 100% damage/crit/crit chance tonkor/simulor/soma mod drop in stats significantly

Overall sounds like DE is in too deep and is making it a lot worse

[SinergyX]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

• What happens to the people who dropped thousands of plat on god rolls? As a F2P game you cant just piss off the whales - which is definitely going to happen - if their 5000 plat 100% damage/crit/crit chance tonkor/simulor/soma mod drop in stats significantly

 

Sorry but if you are that stupid to spent trashload of plat already on such a 'new' system that is doomed to have several revamps, you should loose all your plats.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

1 minute ago, SinergyX said:

Sorry but if you are that stupid to spent trashload of plat already on such a 'new' system that is doomed to have several revamps, you should loose all your plats.

I didnt personally but I know several players that did and "will quit warframe if DE ruins" their broken OP mods

Their stance is the opposite of yours. 

BECAUSE they were early adopters and bought into it, they feel as though they should keep the mods. Similar to how people with the Arcane Helmets could keep them.

[Jukantos]

On 15.11.2016 at 7:08 AM, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

 

I just sincerely hope that DE isnt banking on the influx of xmas noobs - to make up for the exodus of the veterans disgusted by the Riven mods and lack of endgame content

Could very well be "planned obsolescence" to remove us old grinders and farmers, and replace us with brand new (ignorant) plat and Prime Access buying new players for more profits and less developmental effort

very unlikely. Warframe was literally founded by its playerbase and they have kept a very active whale-friendly system (Prime access/ories) for a long time to reward people sticking around and pouring large amounts of money into the game. And what do those veterans need to enjoy the game? That's right, teammates. Because it's a cooperative game. And because helping new players and seeing them experience the cool stuff in this game is so incredibly rewarding. When i help people unlock a new cool tileset, or bring them up to the cinematic quests (Natah, TSD, TWW) their reactions are so cool and genuine. That wouldn't happen if the player numbers dwindled because of this mechanic.

Warframe has some questionable systems that have in my opinion single handedly kept it from being a much larger game than it is. Heck, i myself stopped playing it for 8+ months after initially trying it because of how much the waiting periods for the foundry annoyed me and if it wasn't for LoL going south i would've probably never returned to it.

That doesn't mean this new system will kill veteran interest, but it will probably end up hurting the game's balance to a point where they have to actually revert it because it is causing damage to the gameplay feel of the game.

[Volinus7]

Trade people trust for a short burst of money?

Worth it

 

Not that many people keep analyzing how numbers should be balanced mathematically anyway, they're all blinded by "ooh shiny" , "oohhh bigger numbers".

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

2 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

Trade people trust for a short burst of money?

Worth it

 

Not that many people keep analyzing how numbers should be balanced mathematically anyway, they're all blinded by "ooh shiny" , "oohhh bigger numbers".

And then later they can "fix it" by "listening to the community" to double dip on people's support and earn the trust right back

Just in time for Valkyr Prime Access 

[Buzkyl]

4 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

I didnt personally but I know several players that did and "will quit warframe if DE ruins" their broken OP mods

Their stance is the opposite of yours. 

BECAUSE they were early adopters and bought into it, they feel as though they should keep the mods. Similar to how people with the Arcane Helmets could keep them.

It's their choice to shell out thousands of plat on an obviously broken system. DE never set the price of the mods, that's a player made price. While i have thousands of plat i am never going to spend 1000p on a mod.

DE makes new OP broken toy-----> People buy/abuse system----->DE rebalances it.

This isn't new an shelling out no amount of Plat will stop it. Keeping the mods as is is poor for the health of the game and letting them keep the OP dread,tonkor,simulor ect mods because they paid for it is literally Pay-2-Win.

[marelooke]

Oh, btw, since it hasn't been mentioned yet. Warframe already has a system to make underpowered weapons viable, and it's mods, Syndicate mods to be precise.

Just thought I'd mention it...

[Coaa]

Blaming people for spending 1000s of plat on shiny new mods is absolutely absurd. How about we place the blame on DE? How hard would it have been for them to NOT MAKE THEM TRADEABLE while they worked out the bugs - they have done it many times in the past. Once they figure stuff out, then you let them be traded.

I don't blame players AT ALL for trying to get more powerful stuff right away. Prices of stuff have skyrocketed before because people waited, they have also fallen sometimes as well.

Stop kidding yourselves. The players that spent the plat are not at fault by any means at all. This is completely 100% unquestionably DEs fault and oversight.

So it's my fault I bought the shiny new phone on the market, that turns out a few months later they are exploding and setting on fire killing / hurting people? Give me a break people.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

49 minutes ago, Buzkyl said:

It's their choice to shell out thousands of plat on an obviously broken system. DE never set the price of the mods, that's a player made price. While i have thousands of plat i am never going to spend 1000p on a mod.

DE makes new OP broken toy-----> People buy/abuse system----->DE rebalances it.

This isn't new an shelling out no amount of Plat will stop it. Keeping the mods as is is poor for the health of the game and letting them keep the OP dread,tonkor,simulor ect mods because they paid for it is literally Pay-2-Win.

 

7 minutes ago, Coaa said:

Blaming people for spending 1000s of plat on shiny new mods is absolutely absurd. How about we place the blame on DE? How hard would it have been for them to NOT MAKE THEM TRADEABLE while they worked out the bugs - they have done it many times in the past. Once they figure stuff out, then you let them be traded.

I don't blame players AT ALL for trying to get more powerful stuff right away. Prices of stuff have skyrocketed before because people waited, they have also fallen sometimes as well.

Stop kidding yourselves. The players that spent the plat are not at fault by any means at all. This is completely 100% unquestionably DEs fault and oversight.

So it's my fault I bought the shiny new phone on the market, that turns out a few months later they are exploding and setting on fire killing / hurting people? Give me a break people.

He also ignores the fact people bought OP arcane helmets with real money or plat, and got to keep them after and can still sell them for loads of plat

Its definitely not the buyers fault. Or the sellers looking to make easy plat.

Its DE's fault for allowing an experimental system to be tradeable- and it just isnt logical to think DE actually ignored and forgot their entire history of trade scams and issues with these types of things

Which the only logical explanation is - DE intentionally set this system up to milk whales then screw them over later.

Just like the old valuable "untradeable auras" such as EMP Aura, Dead Eye, Pistol Amp, Shotgun Amp, and Loot Detector - which DE milked then released nerfed and easy to get to kill the prices. Oh and lets not forget the Affinity Amp scandals that keep happening, where DE lets players acquire and trade them, only to remove them from the game later, then repeat the "mistake". And need I even mention Primed Chamber?

[Buzkyl]

1 minute ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

 

He also ignores the fact people bought OP arcane helmets with real money or plat, and got to keep them after and can still sell them for loads of plat

Its definitely not the buyers fault. Or the sellers looking to make easy plat.

Its DE's fault for allowing an experimental system to be tradeable- and it just isnt logical to think DE actually ignored and forgot their entire history of trade scams and issues with these types of things

Which the only logical explanation is - DE intentionally set this system up to milk whales then screw them over later.

Just like the old valuable "untradeable auras" such as EMP Aura, Dead Eye, Pistol Amp, Shotgun Amp, and Loot Detector - which DE milked then released nerfed and easy to get to kill the prices. Oh and lets not forget the Affinity Amp scandals that keep happening, where DE lets players acquire and trade them, only to remove them from the game later, then repeat the "mistake". And need I even mention Primed Chamber?

Except the Riven mod system is far more broken than the Arcane Helmet systems ever were, a majority of Arcane Helmets are useless with only a handful of them selling for a worthwhile amount of plats, values that are dwarfed by the current Meta Weapon Riven Mod prices.

Arcane helmets provides stat bonus no larger than 25% at best  vs Riven Mods which Provide over 100% bonus damage, crit AND  damage on the same mod on already stupidly powerful weapons. Paying money does not mean they're any less broken than they are. The mods itself shouldn't even be tradable however the damage is done and the process to fix it shouldn't be hindered by the fact that people spent money on them. People spent hundreds of dollars on Prime Acess and DE still can and has nerfed frames to the ground.

And before we go into "DE allowed us to keep arcane helmets" once again look at the bonuses arcane helmets give vs Riven Mods, taking into account that riven mods go on already powerful weapons. And on the point of primed chamber, it's only applicabale to sniper rifles the worst category of Primary weapons in the game and the mod just barely tilts the scale of balance, only being useable on weapons like the Vectis and It's Prime variant.

[-Preacher-]

Ooooooohh... Shhiny.. Whats this?
A Riven mod?
Ohooooooo!

 Woe is me.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

1 hour ago, Buzkyl said:

Except the Riven mod system is far more broken than the Arcane Helmet systems ever were, a majority of Arcane Helmets are useless with only a handful of them selling for a worthwhile amount of plats, values that are dwarfed by the current Meta Weapon Riven Mod prices.

Arcane helmets provides stat bonus no larger than 25% at best  vs Riven Mods which Provide over 100% bonus damage, crit AND  damage on the same mod on already stupidly powerful weapons. Paying money does not mean they're any less broken than they are. The mods itself shouldn't even be tradable however the damage is done and the process to fix it shouldn't be hindered by the fact that people spent money on them. People spent hundreds of dollars on Prime Acess and DE still can and has nerfed frames to the ground.

And before we go into "DE allowed us to keep arcane helmets" once again look at the bonuses arcane helmets give vs Riven Mods, taking into account that riven mods go on already powerful weapons. And on the point of primed chamber, it's only applicabale to sniper rifles the worst category of Primary weapons in the game and the mod just barely tilts the scale of balance, only being useable on weapons like the Vectis and It's Prime variant.

My point is after all the scandals and nerfs, DE still put out the most broken system ever conceived, and allowed it to be traded right from the start

Keep in mind, they spent a year developing this system

Its not an oversight. These mods were intentionally made to be broken OP, intentionally designed to sell for thousands of plat, and intentionally planned to be nerfed eventually - as the PVE meta wouldve collapsed in the long run. 

If this truly was an alpha test of these mods, they wouldve been account bound and non-tradeable - just like Prime parts were for the longest time. And special weapons. And archwing parts. The list goes on.

[Volinus7]

I went back to read this again.

Spoiler

Firstly, we should all understand our goal and why this goal existed in the first place:

We want to give players something unique to them that can speak to their wider Arsenal. We want to give new life to the Arsenal in a non-static way.

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style. We’re all familiar with blazing through missions to the Extraction Point, but this system gives players new challenges that require them to test the creative limits of their Arsenal in their quest to Unveil their new Mods. Yes, meta weapons are in the selection pool, but Riven Mods are not needed to make this gear (like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor) more powerful. What they can do is add an interesting buff to a comparatively underpowered weapon in order to encourage players to think outside of that meta box.

This is why we have prevented players from choosing what weapon the Riven Mod will be for; if we didn’t, we would end up with millions of Soma Mods and none for the Gorgon. The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

We have started to add quirks to weapons, as shown with the recent Syndicate Melees, and this is supposed to be a continuation of that train of thought: we want players to be able to use their weapons in new ways that typical builds don’t encourage or allow. The current maximum number of 15 Riven Mods is a reflection of this, as limitations encourages creativity and choice.

From what I read, I interpreted it into "Please Forma more on weapons you haven't forma[because we gain money from that]" and "We also gain money from knee-jerked whales who want best stats mods".

 

Play style [META included] is the result of enemy-player interaction design. You want to change player play style? Change enemy-player interaction design. 

OP/UP weapons are parts of your progression design DE. Players feel accomplishment when they moved from UP weapons to better weapons or OP weapons. 

You want absolute weapon balance? Make all weapons have same kill/time and ammo efficiency then.

A lot of holes and logic failures....

Riven mods contribute NOTHING to points stated both Play style[META] and OP/UP weapons balance.

It only makes people forma weapons that they haven't forma yet, forma more on OP weapons to stuff these new mods in and gains high price on best stats.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Volinus7

[PsychoTech.ARMS]

20 hours ago, IceColdHawk said:

And i have to disagree with you there. My burston prime is actually my strongest assault rifle now, even outdpsing soma prime. And more than viable enough for sorties.

Burston Prime has never been in the bottom Tier weapons (which is what I'm talking about) and is the reason why a riven mod helps out that weapon more so than it does the weaker weapons that people wish were viable. Using a weapon that is already good as an example of a bad one, is just a bad example.