[Spoiler] A thank you to DE for making riven mods so awesome

[MobyTheDuck]

'Something to veterans to do'?

I'm sorry, I'm playing this game for 2 years now, and 7 layers of RNG and grind isnt something I'm willing to do just to make bad weapon less bad or a broken weapon more broken.

If you think a chain of grind and rng means content, you really have to check all these dead MMOs because of the same thing. Diablo 3 almost died for the same system and had to recieve a total rework to live again. Even then, the damage was already done.

[Xzorn]

14 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

In summary it's a whale hunting tool.

 

To my knowledge whale hunting is concept of getting certain personality types to pay money.

I think  you could apply that to most F2P games and their mechanics. There's no real line beyond personal.

[Xzorn]

8 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

If you think a chain of grind and rng means content, you really have to check all these dead MMOs because of the same thing. Diablo 3 almost died for the same system and had to recieve a total rework to live again. Even then, the damage was already done.

 

The problems with Diablo3 had nothing to do with RNG. They were because the game was a blatant cash grab.

The best part was people turned around and gave them more money to fix it after they'd already robbed everyone.

Kinda funny actually.

 

[MobyTheDuck]

6 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

The problems with Diablo3 had nothing to do with RNG. They were because the game was a blatant cash grab.

The best part was people turned around and gave them more money to fix it after they'd already robbed everyone.

Kinda funny actually.

 

Yes, Diablo 3 had its own problems, but at least the managed to fix most of it. The auction house was just one of the problems, you could spend DAYS playing the game to get one legendary item and it would have worse stats than a rare item.

The RNG and grind was cut to a level where you can get a good build with a few hours of playing and actually rewards you for trying the harder dificulties, while giving you SEVERAL ways to control your grind and rng. Even if you didnt got what you wanted, you could use the other stuff you got to try again.

The same way people spend money to get good weapons with the auction house, people are spending money with plat to get Riven mods for already powerful weapons. Its the same principle.

What is 'kinda funny' is that this random mod thing was actually a thing back in update 7, I believe, and a lot of people disliked it and it was removed. What suddenly made it ok after 3 years?

People are just going 'lol dont bother', 'its not mandatory' or 'you dont need it anyway', and that is the mentality that kills a lot of games, see: Payday 2 with the paid skin crates that added random stats. It hurt their sales and dropped both daily players and the game score on Steam, they had to rework that to get the trust of their players back.

If adding all these layers of grind and RNG becomes 'ok', I fear for this game's future.

[Snowbluff]

I like riven mods. It's like a little quest to improve my weapons.

 

i wish the kuva  costs were flat.

[Xzorn]

7 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

Yes, Diablo 3 had its own problems, but at least the managed to fix most of it. The auction house was just one of the problems, you could spend DAYS playing the game to get one legendary item and it would have worse stats than a rare item.

The RNG and grind was cut to a level where you can get a good build with a few hours of playing and actually rewards you for trying the harder dificulties, while giving you SEVERAL ways to control your grind and rng. Even if you didnt got what you wanted, you could use the other stuff you got to try again.

The same way people spend money to get good weapons with the auction house, people are spending money with plat to get Riven mods for already powerful weapons. Its the same principle.

What is 'kinda funny' is that this random mod thing was actually a thing back in update 7, I believe, and a lot of people disliked it and it was removed. What suddenly made it ok after 3 years?

People are just going 'lol dont bother', 'its not mandatory' or 'you dont need it anyway', and that is the mentality that kills a lot of games, see: Payday 2 with the paid skin crates that added random stats. It hurt their sales and dropped both daily players and the game score on Steam, they had to rework that to get the trust of their players back.

If adding all these layers of grind and RNG becomes 'ok', I fear for this game's future.

 

I'm not saying not to do it. I'm saying not to rush it. It's one of those things that works better with natural play time. I think I've gotten around 5k Kuva without actually trying. None of us know the Sorties drop rate, only that there's a wait wall, which leave the stats which people also have no info on other than they're random. We don't even know if they're weighted.

It's only one aspect of the game. a fairly small one as well, Why is this horrible and RNG Arcanes from daily raids okay?

Diablo3 isn't much different than it was IMO. It's easier for a casual player but if you want to hit the leader boards or get the season portrait you need 90% rolls most the time and most need to be ancients. You get class specific stats and sets but due to their ridiculous set bonus power creep there's usually only one good set to push the new season. So you end up with 1 set out of many sets, even more legendaries, they need 90% rolls and they need to be Ancient.

A month into every Season I play in Diablo3 I'm junking my entire inventory 100x over, crafting and junking that 30x over then doing it all again. I might get one slight upgrade in a week which is exactly how my progression was in the original release after a month of play. Nothing has really changed.

[LabraD0rk]

I totally agree with you! I'm having a ton of fun with the RNG of it. I have a Daikyu mod that's on it's 5th re-roll and still garbage. A Gorgon mod that makes the gun more viable in end game and I LOVE that bullet spigot. That one only took me 1 re-roll to get. I bought a Paris mod that was garbage and ended up with a +186% Puncture, +190% crit chance, + 90% recoil 0_o after 1 re-roll. And a ton of other garbage ones that make me want to go grind Kuva. Now with the lvl 80-100 kuva missions I am amped to find a solid team and keep gambling!

[Hyroncore2]

On 11/14/2016 at 9:21 AM, Kimimoto said:

Why not just add new mods for lesser tier weapons, or just buff the weapons themselves? These mods are broken IMO and shouldn't be in the game.

Based on what? The fact that there is absolutely no chance DE would if they are sane allow these mods in conclave? I dislike people saying something is broken when said thing takes a serious amount of effort and given the RNG nature it's even less likely you will see the particular stat roll you want.

[Hyroncore2]

9 minutes ago, ArabTRWrist said:

I totally agree with you! I'm having a ton of fun with the RNG of it. I have a Daikyu mod that's on it's 5th re-roll and still garbage. A Gorgon mod that makes the gun more viable in end game and I LOVE that bullet spigot. That one only took me 1 re-roll to get. I bought a Paris mod that was garbage and ended up with a +186% Puncture, +190% crit chance, + 90% recoil 0_o after 1 re-roll. And a ton of other garbage ones that make me want to go grind Kuva. Now with the lvl 80-100 kuva missions I am amped to find a solid team and keep gambling!

 

Thank GODS for someone who actually gets the concept of the Riven Mod.

This here player is the example of what is needed most in this community!

 

PS Hate you for that 1roll godtier paris mod :P

[LabraD0rk]

22 minutes ago, Hyroncore2 said:

Thank GODS for someone who actually gets the concept of the Riven Mod.

This here player is the example of what is needed most in this community!

 

PS Hate you for that 1roll godtier paris mod :P

My really good friend is refusing to talk to me right now. LOL! ANNNND here's what I got directly after re-rolling the Paris mod that I bought... (wait for it...) A Dread mod from the Sortie! Out of the seven mods I've farmed, bought, and rolled I'd say that I have 2 that are useful and the rest are pretty much holes to throw Kuva into.

IMHO--it's fun not to have a guarantee in the game. Now we all get a chance at the "Primed Chamber" of the Panthera world. This system is fun to me and the idea that everyone should have a guaranteed shot at a +1 billon% Crit dmg Soma mod is just absurd to me. I've done tons of sorties and come out with 2k Endo. I might even be looking forward to the day that I get some Niatan--because "dat Vauban life" and having a dojo with pretty much only 2 members, well that makes things scarce. For the record, I think that there are more than a few people that remember when Piercing Caliber was commonly going for 800+ plat. Rivens make that an unnecessary expense for all but the people who are really going for that min/max build.  The point being, that Riven gives you a shot at getting an amazing mod, for your time no plat involved. Trade them, farm them, buy them cheap (if you must), lower your salt intake and maybe you'll get lucky. It's a free-to-play game, not a charity and I personally think that a system that introduces more variety and less non-stop Bursa farming is a pretty nice thing. Feel free to friend me. I think the the community is pretty great and that DE does a fantastic job, for the most part. 

[Hyroncore2]

20 minutes ago, ArabTRWrist said:

My really good friend is refusing to talk to me right now. LOL! ANNNND here's what I got directly after re-rolling the Paris mod that I bought... (wait for it...) A Dread mod from the Sortie! Out of the seven mods I've farmed, bought, and rolled I'd say that I have 2 that are useful and the rest are pretty much holes to throw Kuva into.

IMHO--it's fun not to have a guarantee in the game. Now we all get a chance at the "Primed Chamber" of the Panthera world. This system is fun to me and the idea that everyone should have a guaranteed shot at a +1 billon% Crit dmg Soma mod is just absurd to me. I've done tons of sorties and come out with 2k Endo. I might even be looking forward to the day that I get some Niatan--because "dat Vauban life" and having a dojo with pretty much only 2 members, well that makes things scarce. For the record, I think that there are more than a few people that remember when Piercing Caliber was commonly going for 800+ plat. Rivens make that an unnecessary expense for all but the people who are really going for that min/max build.  The point being, that Riven gives you a shot at getting an amazing mod, for your time no plat involved. Trade them, farm them, buy them cheap (if you must), lower your salt intake and maybe you'll get lucky. It's a free-to-play game, not a charity and I personally think that a system that introduces more variety and less non-stop Bursa farming is a pretty nice thing. Feel free to friend me. I think the the community is pretty great and that DE does a fantastic job, for the most part. 

 

I hear ya lol.

The one thing I have sadly noticed is many people on this game have that "I want it now" mentality and the problem for most MMO's no matter if its warframe or more traditional RPG types is the risk v reward has gone from gaming for the most part. Entitlement in gaming when people dont get the intricate balance involved sucks and its refreshing to see a different point of view.

[LabraD0rk]

On 11/14/2016 at 5:15 PM, Snowbluff said:

I like riven mods. It's like a little quest to improve my weapons.

 

i wish the kuva  costs were flat.

   I don't know about the Kuva cost thing. I kinda like that there is a fairly steep barrier to infinite re-rolls, as I feel that the idea of spending all of your time in the casino would be contrary to the spirit of Lootcifer  RNGesus, I praise RNGesus of course I do. [uncomfortable Laughter] 
   I think that it's more rewarding to not win every time you step up to the table, there comes a point where you start to think about a second mortgage on your house and wonder if the "juice is worth the squeeze."  Should I pawn my wife's engagement ring for chance to win back my car payment? Maaaybe I should just start over again.

[Snowbluff]

35 minutes ago, ArabTRWrist said:

   I don't know about the Kuva cost thing. I kinda like that there is a fairly steep barrier to infinite re-rolls, as I feel that the idea of spending all of your time in the casino would be contrary to the spirit of Lootcifer  RNGesus, I praise RNGesus of course I do. [uncomfortable Laughter] 
   I think that it's more rewarding to not win every time you step up to the table, there comes a point where you start to think about a second mortgage on your house and wonder if the "juice is worth the squeeze."  Should I pawn my wife's engagement ring for chance to win back my car payment? Maaaybe I should just start over again.

Yeah, there should be achance to not get what you want, but that's why we can keep our old one if we want.

What i want to avoid is lower level rivens (like for crummy weapons) getting locked behid a ton of rerolls and still not having good stats, as well as the incredible grindiness of kuva.

[-Costi-]

Heya Desu nice post , You are right

P.S i'm one of his daily friends for raids :))

Edited December 2, 2016 by -DR-DangerRO

[schilds]

Riven mods are a gambling mechanic for bored players. It's inevitable that they will impact gameplay for the rest of us - who don't like gambling or the  associated heavy trading that is the only way to overcome their rng - because their stats need to be attractive enough to encourage investment in them.

Edited December 2, 2016 by schilds

[marelooke]

13 hours ago, schilds said:

Riven mods are a gambling mechanic for bored players. It's inevitable that they will impact gameplay for the rest of us - who don't like gambling or the  associated heavy trading that is the only way to overcome their rng - because their stats need to be attractive enough to encourage investment in them.

Given that many people seem to accept this mechanics I predict more of this kind of stuff will seep into the rest of the game. If I were the cynical type I'd see PWE influence here...

[Naqel]

Riven mods are not awesome.

They're the worst kind of grindy garbage, that just bolsters the power available to the player without anything to actually do with it.

It's another case of an untested system, that required significant changes immediately upon release to even do what it was supposedly meant to do, being immediately monetized via platinum trading. Once again DE is adding a thing to the game that ruins their ability to improve upon it's core issues at a later time, and cutting themselves away from the possibility of maybe removing it if it doesn't work out. There is literally no thought being given to the long term health of the game, with the sunk-cost and good will of the playerbase being once again exploited instead.

That's not even taking into account the ridiculous nonsense like IPS damages being a possible stat on purely elemental weapons, etc.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Naqel

[BlackCoMerc]

On 11/13/2016 at 6:54 PM, PraetorGix said:

LOL. Sure, the game must not change to suit his entitlement, but it sure is nice that it changed to suit yours isn't it? And the most pathetic of it all is that you think you are so wise in your statement but you can't see you want the exact samething the other guy wants. If all the content in the game can be done with a Braton and new mods are useless except to cater to the player's entitlement for power, then what the he*k are you happy about? You had a point when you tried to say RNG is only a probkem when you care about it, but your way of rationalizing it? Very poor.

Edit: and none of these comments even address the real problem: these things can be used in PVP. That is straight up P2W.

This game has already become pay to progress. Why not add pay to win to the mix?

I have to wonder: How much have people been paid/incentivized to defend a system as badly implemented and as unfun as Riven mods?