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[TWW] Worth the wait? Or not?


LuckyCharm
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Hey all,

Now that we've had the chance to see the war within, and all that's come with it has it been worth the wait for you? All the months of delays, all the hours of waiting and contemplating what was to come, all the hundreds of hype memes and vines...was it worth it to you? I'm interested to hear your opinions on how you felt after completing the story and seeing everything the war within has brought to us. Please leave a comment on what you think. 

 

*Caution opinions ahead*

Personally for me... No. No it wasn't worth the wait at all. After months of disappointments with all the setbacks and delays, seeing all the hype, being taunted with "We can't show you anything yet but we have some great things planned for you."  I can't help but be a little bitter that after the final release... nothing has changed. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. I still have literally nothing to do in game. Hell i'm MR 21, I barely have anything left to level up, and nothing left to explore or challenge myself with. And after being promised so much, it feels like the complete opposite actually happened. If anything after this patch the game got EASIER. Let me lay this out for you... 

Our focus powers still give us op buffs, I still get just as much energy regeneration from all sources, enemies are just as weak as they always were, Invisibility is just as strong as it was (stronger now since it's almost a necessity for the new tileset spy vaults) and there still isn't anything for veterans to do. Now then... we just got new riven mods and the ability for the operator to jump out of your warframe and run about. But luckycharm, your operator running around isn't a buff...Isn't it? Are you sure? Seriously guys, now we have an invisibility and a teleport dash on command, for any warframe. You can literally do any spy mission or stealth mission with any frame now, while still having the added benefit of being a rhino, or titania, or whatever frame you want. And the riven mods...

Why were the riven mods even put in as the teased "late game" feature and the "change to sorties" that was promised. They aren't late game.. they aren't interactive, they aren't a feature.. they're a failure. The riven mods don't even reroll what weapon you have unlocked them for when you reroll, meaning that the few people lucky enough to get OP weapons like the simulor, literally are able to sell them for thousands of plat, while people (like me that got the galaxion) that get weak or sub-par weapons are left watching as the others get richer, or more powerful for a literal roll of the dice. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind rng at all in this case.. I would like mods like this  if they were done the right way. These aren't. They give stats that some weapons can't use. They can give damage numbers higher than any 2 mods for the most part (i traded for a snipetron mod that gives me Electricity, Toxin AND flat damage. WTF?) and there's others out there that give multishot or Crit damage and crit chance higher than the mods that give that normally. Why are the numbers so high.. you can literally double the damage or more of a weapon with just one mod now. There is a fix for these mods though, if DE were to take it.. (No idea why they were put in pre-damage 3.0 though) The fix would be to rescale all weapons based on class. Give all assault rifles the same damage, just differing damage spreads, same for launchers, same for dual pistols, that sort of thing. At least then any of these mods won't be stuck on an S tier weapon giving someone a huge advantage, because any of the weapons in that class will be viable for the same treatment. 

Quest wise, was the wait worth it to me?....No. I can see where the time went, but no.. a tileset i only get to see once isn't really my idea of time spent well. And as for the story line... I don't feel at all like any of my questions were answered, if anything more questions were raised than answered and it feels like none of the answers that I picked made any difference for the outcome. Drink the vial, control the vial, destroy the vial... from what i've heard it made no difference. Everyone got the same rewards, and for me.. destroying the vial, dafaq did I still get corrupted eyes and voices.. I just destroyed it..

And finally.. there's the bugs. The quest was fine for me but the fortress tileset seemed to have a lot of unexplainable bugs for me and my friend. He got stuck floating in midair, I fell through the floor and respawned completely invisible and unable to get rewards. My riven mod is buggy as f*** on my snipetron. Even now I still can't change it's mod loadout without it crashing my game. If you're going to keep delaying things, at least do what you said you were going to and remove the bugs before it even ships. We waited months, why was there still a last minute scramble and the release of a bug filled update. 

 

I really feel that this update felt completely rushed with all features other than the main quest. The operator idea feels half baked given it's low energy pool and stats less than my sentinel. The riven mods feel tacked on with no lore at all behind them. The fact that my operator got neutral for the questline even though I picked the majority of evil answers feels like a flaw there but since that does nothing currently.. another tacked on feature. and then there's the kuva system. This is annoying. It's not fun, it's barely soloable since your operator has 100 hp and these all spawn in high level planets. And the guards force you to be in operator form to even damage them. 

All of these extra features and I still have nothing to do. Because they aren't engaging content, they aren't features you can do to level things, they aren't incentives to play different parts of the game, they're distractions from what this update really was. Empty. Hollow. There's not even incentive to go and farm anything new... because there's nothing new to farm after the first couple of hours getting kuva. 

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The wait for the quest alone? No, but at the same time I don't think anything short of perfect would've been the wait, and gonna be frank, TWW isn't perfect.

But I still love the quest and the update. Wish DE had kept their ambitions in check so u19 didn't turn into 6 major updates,

And what kind tempers my bitterness is that all that we've had for the past few months was meant to be TWW update, but they didn't want to keep us hanging out in the open, IMO if they kept all the updates together, then it would've been worth the wait. (Think if all the content we had these past few months arrived on friday)

So I guess im the fence sitter. I like the update, just hope that DE learned to keep ambitions in check, and we move on from there.

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It's seems to me that the riven mods were not fully fleshed out before they were released. 

The fact that you can have a weapon with full forma and still not be able to equip a full set of mods shows that they did not test any of this stuff.

Which leads me to believe that we are the testers. Many people have said this. 

 The pc users are the guinea pigs for the console users. Riven is clearly broken and DE is going to use our feedback to try and fix it.

That being said TWW was NOT worth the wait if this is all they could come up with. There is still nothing to do. Why even have these ridiculous damage mods if there is nothing to use them on. 

 

If you want my opinion on how to fix Riven then DE should allow the mods to be farmed outside of sorties. They can put them behind difficult missions but it would give you some incentive to go into the most difficult missions to get the strongest mods. By locking them behind a 24 hour time gate you will make people lose interest. 

We need to give people more things to do not less. 

Also the infinitely scaling kuva costs need to go away completely. Its one thing to have random stats every time you roll but increasing the cost only makes things worse. 

We need the option to only reroll a single stat on these mods.

 

Edited by pagepro
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I liked the quest itself. It wasn't everything I wanted, but I still had a good time with it.

Riven Mods: oh boy, I can't really defend anything about these. They're a resurrection of an old idea that was supposed to have been buried way back in Update 7. Random mods were scrapped as a concept for very good reasons back then, and they still aren't a good idea now.

It's a total mess. Players aren't helping, unfortunately, when they buy and sell these things for heartstopping amount of plat. I don't know how DE would begin to fix this. In a better world, this mess never happened in the first place, but it's here now and we will have to ride it out.

It's a polarizing problem. Just... be nice to each other when discussing it, because I know I'm completely exhausted of wrestling with it already.

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They hyped it up way too much and added way too little to live up to said hype.

The Riven mods are RNG-based band-aids that do nothing to benefit the game in its entirety. The transferance system currently seems out of place/disconnected from the rest of the game, they should have at least connected it to the Focus system somehow, so we can buff our Operators.

The content that they did add was okay, but there are so many things that they added that were used once for the quest and we'll probably never see them again until the next quest comes along. The Mountain Pass should be a community hub so players could walk around with their Operators without spoiling things for others in the relays, the archwing infiltration (when you had to dodge the lasers) should be a mission on its own.

Kuva siphon missions were a nice addition, but again, using the Operator right now feels too out of place.

The main quest was fantastic. It answered some questions whilst leaving us wanting to know more. The voice acting was heaps better than The Second Dream and the cutscenes were fantastic. Keith Power outdid himself with the musical compositions and the art team should be proud of themselves for the skyboxes and tilesets.

Overall, it was an okay update that added too few or too disconnected new items/systems, leaving us wanting more, but not necessarily in a GOOD way. 

Edited by xZetsumeix
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The ridiculousness of having the moons to align to unlock the riven mod for a bad gimmicky weapon while everyone but you(read:me) wins the lottery left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't even feel like finding the parts for the Orvius after seeing DK's video on it. And the broken scepter is slow as hell, should be more streamlined like desecrate. BouseFeenux was right. Everyone will rave at the small quest line and ignore the problems in the game.

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1 minute ago, xZetsumeix said:

The Mountain Pass should be a community hub so players could walk around with their Operators without spoiling things for others in the relays

Ooh, I really like this idea. I'm out of rep for today or I would toss you a green arrow. Man, that's clever.

you know things are hot on the forums when people are running out of daily rep.

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No. The quest was too short. I felt nothing for the queens. Like seriously, they're supposed to be these big antagonists... but the big one lives for about 5 minutes after you arrive...

Should have been a quest before this vs the Queens imo, to introduce them and build up their character so they're actually meaningful.

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I can assume that the only reason why it took so long was because they could not settle on the new system they wanted to introduce, which affected their ability to finish the story and therefore delays ensued.

In the ten months we got, we were given a very outstanding quest, which is a plus. However, the lasting systems are definitely negative. The transference system is niche and a novelty. The Riven mod system is absolutely horrendous; the last thing we needed was something hidden behind ludicrous amounts of RNG, only to get something that may make a weapon absolutely broken or something that is completely useless. Riven mods were the system they landed with, and the pitiful thing is that Riven mods have no context within the quest; they were literally tacked on at the very end and likely the last minute decision DE made as their final deadline was getting closer and the patience of the player base was slowly waning to empty.

The quest was spectacular and the DE should be proud of that. However, time was wasted on a system that essentially adds up to being the Warframe lottery. The Second Dream had both a great quest and a lasting and welcome system in Focus.

So, in conclusion, I don't find the ten months wait to be worth it, at all. But, I must make it clear that the quest itself was extremely well done, and I thank DE for that.

Edited by R34LM
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28 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Hey all,

Now that we've had the chance to see the war within, and all that's come with it has it been worth the wait for you? All the months of delays, all the hours of waiting and contemplating what was to come, all the hundreds of hype memes and vines...was it worth it to you? I'm interested to hear your opinions on how you felt after completing the story and seeing everything the war within has brought to us. Please leave a comment on what you think. 

 

*Caution opinions ahead*

Personally for me... No. No it wasn't worth the wait at all. After months of disappointments with all the setbacks and delays, seeing all the hype, being taunted with "We can't show you anything yet but we have some great things planned for you."  I can't help but be a little bitter that after the final release... nothing has changed. NOTHING HAS CHANGED. I still have literally nothing to do in game. Hell i'm MR 21, I barely have anything left to level up, and nothing left to explore or challenge myself with. And after being promised so much, it feels like the complete opposite actually happened. If anything after this patch the game got EASIER. Let me lay this out for you... 

Our focus powers still give us op buffs, I still get just as much energy regeneration from all sources, enemies are just as weak as they always were, Invisibility is just as strong as it was (stronger now since it's almost a necessity for the new tileset spy vaults) and there still isn't anything for veterans to do. Now then... we just got new riven mods and the ability for the operator to jump out of your warframe and run about. But luckycharm, your operator running around isn't a buff...Isn't it? Are you sure? Seriously guys, now we have an invisibility and a teleport dash on command, for any warframe. You can literally do any spy mission or stealth mission with any frame now, while still having the added benefit of being a rhino, or titania, or whatever frame you want. And the riven mods...

Why were the riven mods even put in as the teased "late game" feature and the "change to sorties" that was promised. They aren't late game.. they aren't interactive, they aren't a feature.. they're a failure. The riven mods don't even reroll what weapon you have unlocked them for when you reroll, meaning that the few people lucky enough to get OP weapons like the simulor, literally are able to sell them for thousands of plat, while people (like me that got the galaxion) that get weak or sub-par weapons are left watching as the others get richer, or more powerful for a literal roll of the dice. Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind rng at all in this case.. I would like mods like this  if they were done the right way. These aren't. They give stats that some weapons can't use. They can give damage numbers higher than any 2 mods for the most part (i traded for a snipetron mod that gives me Electricity, Toxin AND flat damage. WTF?) and there's others out there that give multishot or Crit damage and crit chance higher than the mods that give that normally. Why are the numbers so high.. you can literally double the damage or more of a weapon with just one mod now. There is a fix for these mods though, if DE were to take it.. (No idea why they were put in pre-damage 3.0 though) The fix would be to rescale all weapons based on class. Give all assault rifles the same damage, just differing damage spreads, same for launchers, same for dual pistols, that sort of thing. At least then any of these mods won't be stuck on an S tier weapon giving someone a huge advantage, because any of the weapons in that class will be viable for the same treatment. 

Quest wise, was the wait worth it to me?....No. I can see where the time went, but no.. a tileset i only get to see once isn't really my idea of time spent well. And as for the story line... I don't feel at all like any of my questions were answered, if anything more questions were raised than answered and it feels like none of the answers that I picked made any difference for the outcome. Drink the vial, control the vial, destroy the vial... from what i've heard it made no difference. Everyone got the same rewards, and for me.. destroying the vial, dafaq did I still get corrupted eyes and voices.. I just destroyed it..

And finally.. there's the bugs. The quest was fine for me but the fortress tileset seemed to have a lot of unexplainable bugs for me and my friend. He got stuck floating in midair, I fell through the floor and respawned completely invisible and unable to get rewards. My riven mod is buggy as f*** on my snipetron. Even now I still can't change it's mod loadout without it crashing my game. If you're going to keep delaying things, at least do what you said you were going to and remove the bugs before it even ships. We waited months, why was there still a last minute scramble and the release of a bug filled update. 

 

I really feel that this update felt completely rushed with all features other than the main quest. The operator idea feels half baked given it's low energy pool and stats less than my sentinel. The riven mods feel tacked on with no lore at all behind them. The fact that my operator got neutral for the questline even though I picked the majority of evil answers feels like a flaw there but since that does nothing currently.. another tacked on feature. and then there's the kuva system. This is annoying. It's not fun, it's barely soloable since your operator has 100 hp and these all spawn in high level planets. And the guards force you to be in operator form to even damage them. 

All of these extra features and I still have nothing to do. Because they aren't engaging content, they aren't features you can do to level things, they aren't incentives to play different parts of the game, they're distractions from what this update really was. Empty. Hollow. There's not even incentive to go and farm anything new... because there's nothing new to farm after the first couple of hours getting kuva. 

as ps4 player I think the new quest is fine from what I have done on my pc account it just feels like the riven mods need a serious rework I believe they should all come with a series of negative status effects or better yet set a series of limits and abilities based on the weapon chosen like a damage decrease of 100% should never happen.

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This update really wasn't worth the wait. The quest itself was great. I can see where they spent a lot of time on. Not as good as waiting ten months, but still good. If they had kept their 6 updates and released them all at once, I would've loved it. With this messy riven update, everyone dissatisfied, and a generally clunky update, I have to say no. I don't dislike Warframe; I never did. I just want the devs to fix the game.

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Why must the vocal majority here be always so whiny...

Come on, the quest was actually pretty long for something where you dont have to wait for items to be built. It has over half an hour of animations and voiceacting. The new tileset is easily the most awesome in the game so far. Seriously, name one other game that has something even comparable to the War Within quest. PAID games actually struggle to deliver something of this quality.

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To me? No.

In fact, this might even be the update where I finally give up on Warframe. The game has been diverging further and further from what I originally enjoyed and what I continue to (try to) enjoy, vs what it is becoming/has become. This update pretty much amplified all my least favourite parts of Warframe, and added nothing I enjoy except a kind of cool tileset. The riven mods in particular are pure cancer.

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I gotta agree. I hate to say this, but... I do.

DE; don't get me wrong, you did fantastic work by any means, but there's a lot of room for improvement.

The queens, while infuriating are... Shallow. For such 'big' antagonists, they got... What? 2-3 hours in the spotlight? Meanwhile hunhow and stalker are still out there. The war within shouldn't have really begun and ended with the queens, it should've been only part of their storyline. I must admit though, I do kinda like what went down with Teshin, and the tenno's past. Good work on that front!

The transferrance system, while cool as hell, is gimmicky and currently somewhat out of place. Needs quite a bit of work, and it also needs to at least interact with focus.

Our choices should mean something more than just a change in dialogue on loudspeakers. No seriously, other than the guage which I'm fairly sure is broken atm, there's no difference aside from what mini queen rants about in the Kuva Fortress.

Speaking of the fortress, while buggy... I love it. It's amazing. The meaningful traps, the atmosphere... Amazing. Truly. Most tilesets introduced in the quest are amazing also. Though, as another viewer said, they would prove to be a very interesting meeting grounds for post-TWW tenno to meet up and step out of their 'frames for a bit.

The Riven mods... Damn. Just... Damn. I'm not really mad, but you really need to think these things out a little more, DE. Completely randomised mods? Oh no, that can't go wrong at all. No sir! Nothing to see here. A simulor that's gone from god tier to a step up? Nothing wrong with that. Nope. xD

The cinematics were great, and while the questline wasn't phenominal, it had it's ups and downs. Didn't answer all that much about the nit and the grit of the frames though, aside from one or two lines from the elder queen as she tentacle-drilled into our skull... Little creepy, that bit.

 

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22 minutes ago, -skimmer- said:

Why must the vocal majority here be always so whiny...

Come on, the quest was actually pretty long for something where you dont have to wait for items to be built. It has over half an hour of animations and voiceacting. The new tileset is easily the most awesome in the game so far. Seriously, name one other game that has something even comparable to the War Within quest. PAID games actually struggle to deliver something of this quality.

WoW? League of legends? Guildwars 2? Blade and Soul? Do i needa keep naming games? Aura kingdom?.. LoL regularly releases a new cinematic when they release different champions now..Hell even Runes of magic released an entire new quest zone and barely anyone even plays that game any more. 

Granted they don't all release huge cinematic quests, but damned if they don't add more content for players to actually do when they do release things. A new tileset with the same sort of missions isn't really what I'd call ideal. If they'd really wanted to push the box they'd have actually filled in the existing tilesets with lore and story, making a point to playing the nodes we normally leave alone.. like hijack missions or rescues on planets like venus. Or hell.. even a daily challenge system saying things like "kill X enemies on X planet with only a bow." to get rewards. I mean challenges were what most of us expected when we got junctions. Not the random spectre fight that dies with the first sneeze. 

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27 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

WoW? League of legends? Guildwars 2? Blade and Soul? Do i needa keep naming games? Aura kingdom?.. LoL regularly releases a new cinematic when they release different champions now..Hell even Runes of magic released an entire new quest zone and barely anyone even plays that game any more. 

Granted they don't all release huge cinematic quests, but damned if they don't add more content for players to actually do when they do release things. A new tileset with the same sort of missions isn't really what I'd call ideal. If they'd really wanted to push the box they'd have actually filled in the existing tilesets with lore and story, making a point to playing the nodes we normally leave alone.. like hijack missions or rescues on planets like venus. Or hell.. even a daily challenge system saying things like "kill X enemies on X planet with only a bow." to get rewards. I mean challenges were what most of us expected when we got junctions. Not the random spectre fight that dies with the first sneeze. 

Really? You feel like all those games actually come close to the quality the animation The War Within had? Or lenght even? I know those games. Do I actually have to put the videos here side by side for you to see the difference?

Also LoL gets their cinematics by outsourcing them to different companies who dont even care about getting the characters and designs right. From top of my mind: remember when Ryze had the "undestroyable" scroll on his back cut in half? Yeah. I could name more. DE creates these THEMSELVES! On a f2p game model. Half the games you mentioned are not even f2p...

Also, bunch of npcs sending you on bunch of fetch quests barely counts as new content. I know what those games deliver in their content updates...

Edited by -skimmer-
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1 hour ago, -skimmer- said:

Why must the vocal majority here be always so whiny...

Come on, the quest was actually pretty long for something where you dont have to wait for items to be built. It has over half an hour of animations and voiceacting. The new tileset is easily the most awesome in the game so far. Seriously, name one other game that has something even comparable to the War Within quest. PAID games actually struggle to deliver something of this quality.

The quest is itself is hardly on the table. It is widely agreed that the quest is good. What isn't good is that the update offers nothing but a lottery and a novelty afterwards.

Edited by R34LM
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1 minute ago, R34LM said:

The quest is itself is hardly on the table. It is widely agreed that the quest is good. What isn't good is that the update offers nothing but a lottery and a novelty afterwards.

hmm...to be fair, the content they initially planned for the update was split into smaller 4 parts so we wouldnt wait so long for what they promised. As far as I was concerned, I expected only the quest to arrive during this update, which it did. And we were actually told that way ahead. Then we got some extra stuff like the rivens.

I dont see whats your problem here.

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5 minutes ago, -skimmer- said:

hmm...to be fair, the content they initially planned for the update was split into smaller 4 parts so we wouldnt wait so long for what they promised. As far as I was concerned, I expected only the quest to arrive during this update, which it did. And we were actually told that way ahead. Then we got some extra stuff like the rivens.

I dont see whats your problem here.

The problem is that rivens are an rng monstrosity that will either be useless or power creep weapons like Soma Prime or Tonkor. Rivens don't even have any form of context within the quest; they are just thrown at us out of the blue.

Edited by R34LM
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2 hours ago, -skimmer- said:

Why must the vocal majority here be always so whiny...

Come on, the quest was actually pretty long for something where you dont have to wait for items to be built. It has over half an hour of animations and voiceacting. The new tileset is easily the most awesome in the game so far. Seriously, name one other game that has something even comparable to the War Within quest. PAID games actually struggle to deliver something of this quality.

believe it or not people can have opinions that differ from your own
crazy, I know

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