(Opinion) -removed spoiler- Combine and multiply all the worst aspects of Warframe

[CaptainPepeg]

21 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Good thing about riven mod: It made me install Diablo II and enjoy it again.

Now you  make me want to play Diablo III. Thanks m8

[Seeryx]

48 minutes ago, Otis.Driftwood said:

Since the game is co-op having player on my team with God tier like riven mods on their primary weapon doesn't hinder my gameplay at all.

Part of Warframe's fun is grinding and then finally achieving something and in this respect teammates with god-tier OP mods are fine, as they make the grind go faster.

But it's just one part. Sometimes people enjoy triumping over the enemy hordes in something that resembles a fair and fun fight. They enjoy teamwork, coordination and tactics. Damage 3.0 was expected to provide even more opportunities for that. Instead, we're getting more of "A game of following a trail of bodes left by OP-teammate" or "Holding down W and LMB until mission completion screen" simulator.

[Otis.Driftwood]

9 minutes ago, Seeryx said:

Part of Warframe's fun is grinding and then finally achieving something and in this respect teammates with god-tier OP mods are fine, as they make the grind go faster.

But it's just one part. Sometimes people enjoy triumping over the enemy hordes in something that resembles a fair and fun fight. They enjoy teamwork, coordination and tactics. Damage 3.0 was expected to provide even more opportunities for that. Instead, we're getting more of "A game of following a trail of bodes left by OP-teammate" or "Holding down W and LMB until mission completion screen" simulator.

You see the problem isn't the mods themselves its people obsession with getting the highest kill count for some kind of self gratification, this is not a fault of the game/mod design but a fault of players who don't value team play and only want to make other players life boring. This is one of the reasons I play solo a lot of the time.

You cannot fault the game for something that is in complete control of your fellow teammates. There is always in every game that 1 person who just get satisfaction out of rendering every1 else useless. Then they have the hide to PM you and tell you "GIT GOOD". The fault lies soley upon players.

[Seeryx]

Just now, Otis.Driftwood said:

You see the problem isn't the mods themselves its people obsession with getting the highest kill count for some kind of self gratification

I'm not sure I get you right. You say that players trying to play as effectively and efficiently as they can is a problem, and even more, it's their own problem and DE has abosultely nothing to do with it?

[Volinus7]

"People obsession with getting the highest kill count" and "People obsession with getting the highest dmg out of random generated mod" don't feel that different for me.

[polarity]

13 minutes ago, Seeryx said:

I'm not sure I get you right. You say that players trying to play as effectively and efficiently as they can is a problem, and even more, it's their own problem and DE has abosultely nothing to do with it?

Back when I was playing WoW PVP, and was getting sick of getting farmed in one match after another by flavor of the month OP classes that no other class could kill (along with a huge number of other PvP players), I photoshopped the Blizzard logo onto a viagra pill, and gave it the title '$&*^ enablers'.  What players do in game is within the control of the developers.

In warframe that includes using a frame that is ridiculously overpowered for the content, especially compared to the other players, and denying them the ability to do anything other than spectate.  In any other gear progression game content is tiered to keep one player from hogging all the kills, or boosting others.

I already quit out of low level missions as soon as I see an ember or synoid mirage has joined the group.  Riven mods will be adding more reasons.

Edited November 14, 2016 by polarity

[Elkale]

I could not approve more of this post: each and every part of it. the problem is much deeper than many seem to acknowledge, and could very well be the push downwards (not that we were going upwards anyway) that ends in the worst scenario for all of us, players, developers, and gaming community since warframe failing would hurt us all. Anyway, there is another, minor point to add to your list; a side effect that is being clouded in smoke by this "riven mod crisis": the overdrive in ducat influx in the economy given by the Kuva farming players.

As we all know, Kuva syphons are protected by Kuva guardians and jesters. Those dudes, in turn, drop parts of the teshin weaponized party hat and, as drops, they can be boosted by nekros, hydroid, u know the drill. What do that mean? a HUUGE amount of ducats is being made by players selling those parts, at 45 ducats a piece, while players not knowing, or too worried about the riven crisis, cant see through that deep.

Those ducats entering the purse of the educated and knowing farmers, without any relic, trace hunting, refining, prime dropping, triple RNG farming required, in turn, will push up all baro´s stuff and inventory prices: since, as already expressed by DE before, the prices and offers of Baro are being molded in order to remove huge ducat stashes from players inventories.

650 ducats for a primed mod? 850 ducats for a cosmetic armor set? 1200 ducats for a prisma weapon? it is an exageration of course...or maybe not?

What is the meaning of this? in the eventuality that DE manages to solve somehow the riven crisis, which is, as u said, a game breaking path i and many other experienced players have seen many many games take, sadly to their demise and leading to total vanishing, there will be the underliying crisis of thousands upon thousands of ducats that entered the economy hidden from sight, "under the hood" if it might be called that, making primed items in the future go up to unreachable heights in ducat prices for the standard prime-to-ducat sellers due to "clearing ducats inventories" from some.other lucky, or knowledgeable, players.

Another side is that, as we all know, Baro stuff means platinum. some things more, some things less, but it can all be translated to plat.so, not only the Kuva farmers get ducats: they get platinum in a simple to follow flow from Kuva dudes-Orvius parts-Ducats-Baro items-plat.

Just another item for your list to consider.

 

Yours truly,a worried Tenno with 1800 hours, according to Steam.

 

P.S.:excuse any typos please, english is not my mother language ^^

 

 

 

 

[Otis.Driftwood]

28 minutes ago, Seeryx said:

I'm not sure I get you right. You say that players trying to play as effectively and efficiently as they can is a problem, and even more, it's their own problem and DE has abosultely nothing to do with it?

Getting the highest kill count has bugger all to do with effectivity or efficiency its plain "i want to hog all the kill cos I'm better than you". Its this kind of playstyle that kills team based tactics. Players have a choice of lvld content its NOT DE's fault simple minded people play low level trash to gain some kind of god like status.

And like I said these reasons are why I solo.

DE cannot controls peoples bad habits.

And for those who don't realise steam time is NOT actual in game time.

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Otis.Driftwood

[Seeryx]

Just now, Otis.Driftwood said:

DE cannot controls peoples bad habits.

Except they can and they should. Jeez, I mean, look around. Every game has meta-items and tryhard players, but many manage that situation and end up with regular players enjoying the game just to the same degree as tryhards.

Basically, it's all Game Design 101. Different player types, different kinds of fun - and it's game designer's job to make more fun for more players. More importantly, you can't fix players while game mechanics in general and Riven Mods in particular are completely within the control of dev team.

 

[Otis.Driftwood]

From my experience this game already has all those options you described.

Having the ability to control your own actions is what I enjoy about the game its just some people like to ruin the fun you are having.

Find like minded players have fun.

I mean really what kind of game would it become if we have to stick to a pre determined track where at every corner we are dictated what we can and cant achieve.

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Otis.Driftwood

[Mekyo]

Aren't you guys sure you aren't overreacting a tiiiny bit ? Regardless, I'm waiting for the devstream, see what the crew has to say about this new mod category.

[Sahansral]

5 hours ago, Otis.Driftwood said:

You see the problem isn't the mods themselves its people obsession with getting the highest kill count for some kind of self gratification, this is not a fault of the game/mod design but a fault of players who don't value team play and only want to make other players life boring. This is one of the reasons I play solo a lot of the time.

You cannot fault the game for something that is in complete control of your fellow teammates. There is always in every game that 1 person who just get satisfaction out of rendering every1 else useless. Then they have the hide to PM you and tell you "GIT GOOD". The fault lies soley upon players.

By implementing multiple layers of RNG which forces to repeat content over and over and over again,  you can't blame players for strifing for possibilitites to reduce boring grind (clean missions as fast as possible) at the cost of fun of their fellows.

I'm not happy with this behaviour either, but game design is responsible. Adding more and more RNG won't better this. I thought, the Devs realized this, hence void 2.0.

[low1991]

[For balance] I'm waiting for Damage 3.0. where all damage deal in terms of numerical figures are all hidden. (When i punch you using my fist, do you say how many damage i dealt to you?). Specific elemental & physical damage resistance/ defense values, no more straight % damage reduction. Across the board weapons nerf to fit damage 3.0

Waiting for better Armor system. Where well armored area can be broken off after multiple shots at it (go waste your bullets), and therefore shredding that piece of armor on that specific area to 0 armor.

Reward 2.0?, reward/ loots should scale to planet' level, lvl of enemies, and environments. Why is there nano spores (infested stuff) in grineer-run-mission map?

The above 'should' provide challenge to other players (different term of challenge here), while players playing the game can have fun if all meta disappear and that all weapon have a sport in the game. {See above}

IF DE wants to, go ahead and nerf all my arsenals to hell, in-exchange for the above.

Just my opinion.

[StabbyTentacles]

45 minutes ago, low1991 said:

[For balance] I'm waiting for Damage 3.0. where all damage deal in terms of numerical figures are all hidden. (When i punch you using my fist, do you say how many damage i dealt to you?). Specific elemental & physical damage resistance/ defense values, no more straight % damage reduction. Across the board weapons nerf to fit damage 3.0

Numerical figures are fine, we're in the warframe it has a hud, we see the huds/warframes interpretation of damage... if anything the hud needs major work, (we need more hud) we're in a super god like warmachine with a map that has full blown aids (lol) 

[weirdichigo]

" if anything the hud needs major work, (we need more hud) we're in a super god like warmachine with a map that has full blown aids (lol)  "

NO, no it doesn't and we don't need more HUD. Hud Is fine just as it is (and that is my professional opinion as a visual artist and a designer). There could be some minor tweaks style-wise among  existing elements for better composition but for now it's good. It's minimal, shows the information you need to know, and that's what's important. They could always make damage numbers optional. Like toggling them in the Options. But there is currently much bigger problem and it's called "Riven mods."

[low1991]

49 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Numerical figures are fine, we're in the warframe it has a hud, we see the huds/warframes interpretation of damage... if anything the hud needs major work, (we need more hud) we're in a super god like warmachine with a map that has full blown aids (lol) 

Enemy should not have HUD. And i'm refering to the damage dealt to the enemy. Yet again, can u see how much damage (irl) you dealt to the person in front of you, in numerical figure?

Numerical figures are NOT fine, they are the sources of all meta/ OP/ Buffs/ nerfs.

Edited November 15, 2016 by low1991

[Cortanis]

I couldn't agree with this more. Riven mods as a whole have managed to break the game in ways that are astounding. Take the Tonkor nerf for example. The god mode riven mods in question take that nerf, shove it out the window, roll it into a shallow ditch, and then set fire to it with a finisher of urinating on the ashes. Their is absolutely no way in this game that it will be possible to even in the most remote sense to balance  any of this with when a player gets a good roll on a riven mod... and let's face the facts, it only takes one good riven mod to break everything now.

[xxfiurionxx]

In general a great idea that would problaly greatly diversify everyones loadouts with many diferent guns depending on what rng gave you if they liked their riven mod.

Greatly buffing allrdy strong weapons? Not so much :|        Sadly strong weapons gonna be even stronguer and weaker weapons gonna continue to be weaker :\

Overall loved the updade but for now i just hope a day dont come were for me to stay "competitive" with other folks in a party i either need to wait to get lucky with a sortie drop only to hope being extra lucky right after with a godly tier riven mod or being "forced" to just outright buying it...

At the end of the day i dont think DE will be able to make everyone exactly happy with this adition by "pleasing" a certain side since the mods are allrdy out there and some folks PAID good plat for it but from my part just gonna continue enjoying the game for now and see were this go with time.

 

[StabbyTentacles]

11 hours ago, weirdichigo said:

" if anything the hud needs major work, (we need more hud) we're in a super god like warmachine with a map that has full blown aids (lol)  "

NO, no it doesn't and we don't need more HUD. Hud Is fine just as it is (and that is my professional opinion as a visual artist and a designer). There could be some minor tweaks style-wise among  existing elements for better composition but for now it's good. It's minimal, shows the information you need to know, and that's what's important. They could always make damage numbers optional. Like toggling them in the Options. But there is currently much bigger problem and it's called "Riven mods."

Ha.

I'm a graphic designer, so  

The question is not an aesthetic one. But go ahead 'tweak' away.

You think the military go hmmmm its great but... hmmmm that hud is too useful; could we minimise that?

The question is Form Follows Function (FFF); you feel a minimal hud shows the information you need to know, I do not. 

If only this was a game, with the possibility of options, like tiny minimal, or military, futuristic interface, wait...

Agree with the Riven mod issue, do not agree with a minimal hud. It simply makes no sense. (Unless warframes are devices built to leisurely stroll down the shops with.) 

A warframe, an example of highly advanced technological wizardry;  military, highly advanced, technological wizardry; needs its hud to create/portray high-quality impressive visuals of a military and futuristic interface.   (and that is my professional opinion as a gamer, and a graphic designer). 

[weirdichigo]

26 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

Ha.

I'm a graphic designer, so  

The question is not an aesthetic one. But go ahead 'tweak' away.

You think the military go hmmmm its great but... hmmmm that hud is too useful; could we minimise that?

The question is Form Follows Function (FFF); you feel a minimal hud shows the information you need to know, I do not. 

If only this was a game, with the possibility of options, like tiny minimal, or military, futuristic interface, wait...

Agree with the Riven mod issue, do not agree with a minimal hud. It simply makes no sense. (Unless warframes are devices built to leisurely stroll down the shops with.) 

A warframe, an example of highly advanced technological wizardry;  military, highly advanced, technological wizardry; needs its hud to create/portray high-quality impressive visuals of a military and futuristic interface.   (and that is my professional opinion as a gamer, and a graphic designer). 

Oh well.
We can run a debate forever then ^^
Of course, the form doesn't always have to follow the function. And definitely not in the area of video games, right ? But my opinion is, that in a game where your screen is exploding in million colors, with hyper dynamic/fast gameplay, where your sight is being already bombarded by intense amount of visual information, I'd stick to a "Less is more" approach concerning the HUD design. It's a quite logical thing to do in such situation (later versions of the Wipeout HUD design is a solid example of a good HUD in a fast paced game). As I've said before, stylizing? sure why not, futuristic, high tech sci fi...etc. but it's the least of problems warframe has now. Also a lot of games tend to go overboard with interface design, so I'd rather stick with this (neutral) minimalist one where i can 100% read both informations instead, the "gameplay" and the "HUD" at all times. It being a game doesn't mean you can do whatever with it. Also the thing with Warframe is that they surpass the "millitary" frame or "warmachine". They're kinda in the area of "metaphysics" and super powers atm. But what should it look like? well, that's very subjective. Neutral works fine for everyone here. Unfortunately nether do you or I work at DE so It's kinda up to the Art director to decide what we roll with : 7 

hmm If only warframe had a workshop... wait.....

you know, we could ask DE to give us access in a workshop to HUD files to make custom HUDs, You could customize your own HUD.
Actually that shouldn't be a problem, It's just an overlay. I think that every modder in the gaming society has messed around with those, at least on the basic level, such as colors, sizes, positions, etc.. The only problem would be copyright issues with fonts...

 

[StabbyTentacles]

7 minutes ago, weirdichigo said:

hmm If only warframe had a workshop... wait.....

you know, we could ask DE to give us access in a workshop to HUD files to make custom HUDs, You could customize your own HUD.
Actually that shouldn't be a problem, It's just an overlay. I think that every modder in the gaming society has messed around with those, at least on the basic level, such as colors, sizes, positions, etc.. The only problem would be copyright issues with fonts...

 

OMG DE Please please pleeeaaaaase.

Great idea weirdichigo. So Tennogen huds... Grineer huds, Corpus huds, Infested huds, ...Stalker huds, Grustrag three huds... 

 

[Schregger]

I can put my thoughts on this with but one word: IGNIS

 

I got it, I used it, I maxed its level, and I tossed it out because, I just didnt like it... And my first Riven mod is for the Ignis... and you can actually reroll the mods. Oh yeah, you can reroll and get different stat bonuses, but you cant change the weapon it goes to.

BTW, anyone want a Ignis Riven mod? Only been rerolled once...

[Prophane]

Riven mods = lip stick on pig that is sitting on the titanic which is slowly sinking.

I have played this game less than a year but I'm mr21 and have invested a lot of time and a lot of real money into this game because there were so many fun and enjoyable aspects. Now it seems the much hyped, ever delayed war within is a rainbow with a bucket of poo at the end, and that poo is pulling a Donald Trump on my mother. Just a gut punch after the quest was all done and I waited a day to actually get my quest rewards.

I understand features might be beta....this whole game is beta. Look at focus...a year later still says it beta feature. Feature finish not feature creep. We need features that are well thought out and polished, not more random features that are thrown at the wall to see what sticks. I shouldn't have the expectation in a game to avoid a new feature or playstyle because history has shown it will be terrible to start out with and buggy and broken and 3 months after intense feedback something might change. 

Need to pull riven mods now. And figure it out later. I would like to see them be operator mods. Need to change how to get kuva as well, that while system of trying to get a kuva spawn, then get kuva without something bugging out, only to have to that 20 times for 1 roulette spin....overwhelming frustrated.

[Mr.Lube]

On 11/14/2016 at 6:32 PM, Seeryx said:

Except they can and they should. Jeez, I mean, look around. Every game has meta-items and tryhard players, but many manage that situation and end up with regular players enjoying the game just to the same degree as tryhards.

Basically, it's all Game Design 101. Different player types, different kinds of fun - and it's game designer's job to make more fun for more players. More importantly, you can't fix players while game mechanics in general and Riven Mods in particular are completely within the control of dev team.

 

I think the problem is that DE tries to make everyone happy, but just ends up making nobody happy. The game has no clear vision at the moment; it just has to many loose ends that lead nowhere.

[Volinus7]

devstream 83

"Our goal whether you agree with it or not"

"Is to give new lives to old stuffs"

Why don't you just buff the weapons? You didn't add any new weapon mechanics on riven mods, they're just constant value offsets.

They're unnecessary if you just buff weapon stats directly.

 

Weapon progression is separated and becomes staircase instead of linear because of riven mods.

Instead of previous mods that can be used on all weapons, these mods are locked with specific weapons only. If you want this specific "bad" weapon to be "good", riven is necessary right? And your effort on this specific weapon cannot be used on other weapons, this discourages people from trying to perfect various types of weapons they'd rather focus on few most powerful meta again whether riven creates new meta or not. 

Players grind mandatory mods from r-0 to max rank this is where linearity ends, next you need to climb the RNG staircase to make this bad weapon become good.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Volinus7