Majority dont like Riven Mods = Majority dont get good rolls

[ranks21]

well I don't see a problem with riven mods, other than the more exotic stats should be higher up in the reroll process which would give a player incentives to keep playing and progressing with the weapons they like.

for the lazy and complainers it is simple>> don't use riven mods.

this is one of the best systems of late that I can actually agree with DE for implementing in the game seeing how actively the masses is already after the completion of the TWW quest.

I don't normally give credit to DE until they earned it and in this case they have surpassed my expectations... well done.

Edited November 15, 2016 by ranks21

[Hitexh]

3 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

the way this goes is wrong

the idea behind riven mods is good

implementation is bad

you dislike the system but you like riven mods

riven mods are the system, the system that fails to perform it's intended function

instead of leveling the meta it just pushed it 20 levels higher

example:

200% damage for braton    200% damage for tonkor

damage changed? yes

actual difference achieved? no

So you are saying Prime Cyro Rounds 165% for braton and 90% for Tonkor?

Well we cant blame the mods. The weapon is the one need to be adjusted.

I am with you too as most of us dont like how Overpowered weapon get more benefits. But why dont we just nerf them all instead of nerfing the mods. Nerfing the mods will punish the current existing riven mods holders.

[Hero2102None]

27 minutes ago, Evanescent said:

First of all, if you want to start a conversation, belittling your participants is the best way to weaken your argument and turn the conversation toxic.

Second of all, no, your logic does not add up. Apple+orange=/=pineapple. 1 weapon good, 1 weapon still bad=/=people are salty therefore they rant. Assumptions=/=fact.

Now to the actual topic.

Yes, I think if more people got good mods, we wouldn't see so much complaining. It is also true that people who got good rolls will be more defensive of the system. So you see, it is just as easy for people to dismiss your argument as it is for you to do theirs if you go down this road. 

I don't think this is because they got bad rolls.

The main problem with the system is that there are like 7 layers of RNG with the grind. There is a once per day RNG to get a mod, then there is RNG in the requirememnt, there is RNG in the weapon roll so you may not get one for the weapon you want, there is RNG in the stat rolls, then if you want to reroll it there is rng for siphon to spawn, and then there is the mission grind for the kuva.

If there is one thing people hate in warframe, it is the loss of control. People hate nullifiers, the commander's switch teleport, knockdowns, rng for riven-can't you see why? All these take too much control out of their hands. The Riven system demands too much for too little control.

The problem comes from the fact that despite you both giving the same effort, your friend can get a mod with godly stats while you get one for a sentinel rifle, People don't appreciate that, they've never seen this before in warframe. You've always been able to know that there is a standard power in mod you can put effort into and get. Essentially, you know what you are getting before you sign up. This is not true for riven.

Then you have the fact that stat rolls can be ridiculous, such as critical chance on the miter and status chance on something with next to no status. You need a more balanced set of stats to draw from, and not vary the reward so wildly.

It should be that you are guaranteed a set amount of power, and then and then only you gamble for extra or nothing, otherwise the payoff isn't there and players are frustrated, which is not good.

Kuva is resented because it's not something you can farm in a controlled way. You have to use a clunky mechanic, and then have a silly rng just for the chance to farm it. If it was something permanent and available, people wouldn't whine as much over the roll costs. It's not fun spending the entire day in the same mission again and again to get a resource a precious few times. If this is your endgame, you've defeated the purpose of having the void rework-why are you forcing players into the same missions?

Give players some more control over the rolls, put some restrictions in how the stats are assigned, balance the distribution of attributes you can roll for, and people will like it more. Right now it's a cool concept with not so great implementation.

I mean, if it's there to make me love and use my braton again, it should prioritise my braton instead of cementing my soma further into my arsenal.

 

I agree that there's too many RNG checks to go through. I stopped playing Diablo 3 because the effort (time) invested in procurring  certain legendary ancient items did not pay off, hence the loss of interest and joy. And this is a game that has a very worked out drop and roll system. There you could rinse and repeat at least.

There should definitely be some stat narrowing parameters for the unveiling of a mod.

 As for grinding kuva, i don't really see it as an integral part of this RNG scheme, since u only need it for recycling. Rare resource needs to be treated as such, i.e. use it very consevatively. I do feel some changes will be needed here, since the cost scales, which means more and more of the same joyless kuva extracting which doesn't scale with level of the mission ATM.

Oh and i got 2 crappy riven mods.

 

 

 

[Mastikator2]

56 minutes ago, xXRiomaXx said:

[stuff]

The fact that this gap can exist is proof enough that the system is broken. [also stuff]

I think this is the main issue. The system is broken in its implementation, but it is ultimately a good idea. There are many ways to make the system less broken, it could even have certain balancing features (such as having better stats for worse weapons, having a bias for become a weapon you own and have equipped often).

[MeltenIngCream]

20 hours ago, Green_Alien said:

I for one LOVE the new mod system. It gives the game a lot more lifespan than just adding mods with fixed stats on them. I love it so much, but unfortunately, I have to question the 15 Riven mod limit that hampers it.

I have to agree with you there. I'm pretty sure most of the players who hate the new system haven't received a good Riven yet. I wasn't too fond of it when I got a crappy one for the Penta. As soon as I got my second one though, and it was decent (for the Gorgon though >.<), I saw the possibilities with the new system, especially when it comes to build diversity. Most players who claim to hate the new system will probably deny it, and of course, forcefully stick to their guns due to their inability to admit they were wrong.

Also, I think DE already mentioned that the future mods will be based on the usage statistics of the weapons. More popular weapons=less powerful Rivens. But of course, people will likely ignore that too.

But I'm not sure about them being the majority though. I remember a moderator guy from another forum who said that people usually that cry out in forums aren't the majority of the player base.

So it has Penta mod too ....  I'm very excited now.

[ShikiRen]

Also, the reroll getting more costly end with massive scamming in the market, as there is 0 way to know how often a mod has been rerolled, and the reroll-costs do not reset. So you might end with a trash mod for a weapon you like that you wanted to reroll, but guess what, already costs 4500 Kuva.

[Hitexh]

2 hours ago, Green_Alien said:

I for one LOVE the new mod system. It gives the game a lot more lifespan than just adding mods with fixed stats on them. I love it so much, but unfortunately, I have to question the 15 Riven mod limit that hampers it.

I have to agree with you there. I'm pretty sure most of the players who hate the new system haven't received a good Riven yet. I wasn't too fond of it when I got a crappy one for the Penta. As soon as I got my second one though, and it was decent (for the Gorgon though >.<), I saw the possibilities with the new system, especially when it comes to build diversity. Most players who claim to hate the new system will probably deny it, and of course, forcefully stick to their guns due to their inability to admit they were wrong.

Also, I think DE already mentioned that the future mods will be based on the usage statistics of the weapons. More popular weapons=less powerful Rivens. But of course, people will likely ignore that too.

But I'm not sure about them being the majority though. I remember a moderator guy from another forum who said that people usually that cry out in forums aren't the majority of the player base.

Glad to see you agree. I hope the upcoming hotfix can consider our humble opinions.

[Hitexh]

24 minutes ago, ShikiRen said:

Also, the reroll getting more costly end with massive scamming in the market, as there is 0 way to know how often a mod has been rerolled, and the reroll-costs do not reset. So you might end with a trash mod for a weapon you like that you wanted to reroll, but guess what, already costs 4500 Kuva.

Yeah, I agree, this trade system need to be update ASAP. I got scamed with Boltor Riven Mod for having 2.5 Kuva cost cycle. I got another scam unveiled Mod of Harpak. But this doesnt change that the Riven Mod is good. The bad one is the system or the weapon itself. Cheers...

[Second_Measure]

I don't see why they didn't simply improved the stats on the weaker weapons themselves. Instead they mess around with pre-existing mod settings and you have to reorganize/reforma your mod setup to make them viable for the Riven one, if you can sacrifice the space for it in the first place.

[Crawd]

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

Those who dont agree with Riven Mod basically doesnt get a good riven mod. Thats why they make Reasons like:

First of all, I haven't played Warframe since Civ 6 was released because I was tired of the series of small updates where the idea has potential but didn't have anything to catch my attention to keep me playing. So I will say that my opinion is not based on getting a good or a bad Riven mod at all, it's totally based on the system itself and my very own point of view.

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

1. Powercreep on meta weapons. Are they blind? if you dont like the powercreep on meta weapons, just buff the underpowered weapon and nerf the overpowered ones, without blaming the mod. And Powercreep on Meta Weapon already exist since ancient time, where were you till now? So Prime Cyro Rounds isnt available for simulor but it does for other weapons?

Sadly, that's not anything players can do about it. If there was a way to change the meta weapons, I'm pretty sure it would already be done. While I do like the Soma and the Tonkor, I do also know that they are in the top tier weapon and I do not like them because they are top tier weapons. I like them because of their gameplay style.

Now, this being the point of agreeing or not with the Riven Mod, powercreep on meta weapon has already been something discussed since a while, the fact that they added even stronger mods for these weapon brings even more polarities. Those who like big numbers with trivialized gameplay, those who enjoy a balanced game with a balanced challenge, those who like tough challenges and there's other kind of players, hard to describe everyone.... Sadly, it's very hard to please everyone, because there's several opinions, several tastes and several point of view...

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

2. RNGesus. Are you not playing warframe till now? From the part of prime grind, mods grind, even the arcane energize farm, are all around RNG. Why suddenly you blame the mod  has to change? Arcane Energize is a game breaking but acceptable?

Another point where the player has even less control on it. Farm, farm, farm, grind, grind, grind. It's being said for a while by the developpers themselves that why wanted to reduce the grind, causing game exhaustions. Sure, some hardcore players will find it less challenging to get new stuffs, but, I'll use the point from above, there's several type of players to think about. In this case, there's casual players, hardcore players, chinese farmers and all those between those. Hard again to build a system where everyone will agree on.

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

3. Cost for cycle too expensive. Well, to max prime mods cost 40k endo and takes 1 million credit to trade. Now you are saying maxing Riven mods should cost 1k kuva only? Riven mods is better than prime mods, its a mod that contain 3 other mods, and its an endgame mod. So basically it suppose to be hard to get.

Being expensive combined with randomness isn't something that should come together. I'll take some other games where they buy crates for 3-5$ with a 0.5% chance of getting a special mounts out of the crate, yet more than half of the players have these. Something expensive should be rewarding... This business case is bringing the gaming industry in a bad direction. Sure, it's a free to play game and they need to create some ways to make a living, but there's several free to play games that aren't ripping off people's wallets instead of using paywalls. It's a matter of respect toward your clients.

I just don't see why being expensive makes the system a good thing? Specially since there's already a challenge to get it, there's a Mastery lock system and each reroll cost more than the previous one. It's not a matter of "Getting a good Riven mod" anymore, that's a matter of another grinding system, in a already grind heavy game.

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

4. Expert Traders. Got good rolls on current meta weapon, and sell them for 1k plats. Stocking good rolls on future meta weapons. This is what majority players who get insight on future development. So after they sold their goods, they will make a two-face said I got Good roll but I still disagree and claim to DE, please change the goods. And sell new ones...

I have nothing to say about that one, I don't even care about trading, because I don't like that at all.

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

If DE going to nerf all riven mod of meta weapons, wait for the next 3 months, those underpowered weapon that become a new meta weapon should get a nerf also?

The problem with the system is, the mod aren't build per weapon, they are generic suffix/prefix, like any Diablo games. It's nothing new they have created, it's was greatly inspired by Diablo system, but in Diablo, the progression of the game was built around this. In Warframe, even [DE]Rebecca said it:

Quote

Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem.

Which I bring back my point at the #1 - Powercreep. There's several type of players: those who like big numbers with trivialized gameplay, those who enjoy a balanced game with a balanced challenge, those who like tough challenges, etc. In other words, the Riven mods will trivialize even more Warframe, because the difficulties of the game will be based around non-Riven mod builds, which, after a while, will trivialize even more the content.

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

You guys need to accept that there are God Tier Weapon in game, and it is in every game. You want to stick to braton till endgame? well you can do it with riven mod now. But dont push people who still want to use simulor.

Let me answer that with "What end game?" there's not really an endgame in Warframe, I haven't done raids simply because I mostly play solo or with a friend or 2, otherwise I did everything before I stopped playing when Civ 6 went out. I have yet seen some kind of endgame content.

2 hours ago, Hitexh said:

I agree the existing Riven Mods to be remain as it is. If DE would like to change it, nerf or whatever can do for the new batch riven mods.

I really wish these wasn't in the game because I am not sure they are healthy for the game. Now that I've state my point toward your opinion, I'll develop more about mine. I've played almost for 2 years and I really enjoyed the progression of the game. At some point, you unlock some new place, like the void, that brings new mods to help the progression. Then there's the derelict that brought specialized mod at the cost of another stats, which was very fine because it enforced some teamplay or synergy between some mods.

In some time, there's event mods, which some are debalancing a little the game, but bring some interesting concept. However, combine everything and the game is starting to lose it balance. At this point, hardcore players looking for tough challenge already start losing interest. I'm not one of those, because I enjoy a fun balanced game.

Now they bring this on the table... Sure it will please people who like big numbers dispite trivializing the game, but it will hurt the others. As I've said at the beginning, I don't even played Warframe since 3 weeks now and I was really looking at TWW update. Seeing the Riven Mod, I'm not sure if I want to come back now. So my opinion is not a matter of "getting a bad Riven mod", it's really a matter of seeing the new system removing the balance of the game.

Sure you can say that I don't have to use it, but the way I'm playing is to use the best gear I have knowing that the challenge and progression keeps up with that. Which is no longer the case with the addition of Riven mod now. You could also say that I don't have to get them, but what's the point of having a content and not doing it? Specially since I see the challenge to get them and I say: "This is interesting to do!" but the reward breaking the balance of the game isn't interesting.

Of course, it is hard (if not impossible) to please everyone, but adding a content should aim to please as many people as possible and this one seems to polarize a lot of people. Sure some people will be mad at the system because they didn't get a good mod, but that's not half of the player. Just like some people may like the system even if they get a crappy roll.

That's my 2 credits on the Riven mod.

TLDR: Getting a good or a bad roll on the Riven mod has nothing to do about liking or hating the system.

[Marvelous_A]

Ultimate RNG+ Ultimate Powercreep. I've sold few good riven mods for plats but I would rather not. The mods make some weapons so OP that you lost every other reason to use otherwise. I don't get why would we even get mods like these when DE claimed they want to remove "mandatory mods". Adding more damage mod is clearly not the right way to do it. Really bad decision making and for whatever reason they apparently didn't think it thoroughly before doing so. Why would they allow such OP stuff to get it to actual game? I demand to have my pre-nerf Excalibur and immortal Valkyr back and recall all previous nerfs if they are to keep these Riven mods, because they obviously don't care about balance.

To make weak weapons usable? Then they're just ultimate band-aid mods which clearly not needed by Warframe. If they want to do it, just buff them, not adding more powercreeping mods that can potentially make even more god-tier weapons.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Marvelous_A

[TheBrightKing]

Maybe people should look at this before commenting

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/718938-spoiler-dev-workshop-new-mods/

 

[Ghogiel]

4 hours ago, Hitexh said:

The correlation is:

While Those who already got riven mods --> The system is good / I dont care anymore.

Even with several rivens and one good riven worth lots of plat I still think the RNG implimentation is borked, it's like I am on pluto farming for the blue dual stat dmg/multishot mods in U6 all over again.

[Vox_Preliator]

I got a damn amazing roll, and I can't wait for this new system to get torn out by the roots.

One of the things I love about Warframe is that a Serration will always be a Serration, a Thermite Rounds will always be a Thermite Rounds, but Riven mods directly oppose this and are the embodiment of why I can't stand any Diablo-esque game. Procedural generation has its places, I've never believed gear should be one of them.

[Hitexh]

50 minutes ago, Crawd said:

 I've played almost for 2 years and I really enjoyed the progression of the game.

Mr Crawd,

Im amazed this is your first post. I believe you deliberately create an account to respond this discussion despite having 2 years experience in playing this game. Thank you very much.

57 minutes ago, Crawd said:

Sadly, that's not anything players can do about it. If there was a way to change the meta weapons, I'm pretty sure it would already be done.

For the powercreep and RNGesus part, I believe all of us aware that Riven Mod should be blame. But the system and weapon it self should be adjusted.

59 minutes ago, Crawd said:

Being expensive combined with randomness isn't something that should come together.

Indeed, After some discussion earlier I also agree that when the cost to cycle increase, the probability to get a better mod should also increase. I agree.

1 hour ago, Crawd said:

Let me answer that with "What end game?" there's not really an endgame in Warframe, I haven't done raids simply because I mostly play solo or with a friend or 2, otherwise I did everything before I stopped playing when Civ 6 went out. I have yet seen some kind of endgame content.

Yup we dont have endgame content at all. But so far, we have daily alert, syndicate, sortie, and raids. What I mean by endgame here are the raids and sortie.

1 hour ago, Crawd said:

In some time, there's event mods, which some are debalancing a little the game, but bring some interesting concept. However, combine everything and the game is starting to lose it balance. At this point, hardcore players looking for tough challenge already start losing interest. I'm not one of those, because I enjoy a fun balanced game.

Now they bring this on the table... Sure it will please people who like big numbers dispite trivializing the game, but it will hurt the others. As I've said at the beginning, I don't even played Warframe since 3 weeks now and I was really looking at TWW update. Seeing the Riven Mod, I'm not sure if I want to come back now. So my opinion is not a matter of "getting a bad Riven mod", it's really a matter of seeing the new system removing the balance of the game.

TLDR: Getting a good or a bad roll on the Riven mod has nothing to do about liking or hating the system.

Mr. Crawd, you are not included in majority that I mention. You are one of a kind who can see the fun aspect of a casual game. Like reaching maxing mods and only rank 9. You are the type of that person who satisfied with rank 9. But Riven Mod is design for endless grind, and its suitable for people who satisfy with max limit posibility. So Even the system and execution of the mod is perfect, I bet you still dont like it. Even Prime mod, you will not like it.

So im not debating with you, because we are enjoying a different aspect in the game. But I hope you still understand that mod should not change, if the weapon it self is correct.

The fact is: Actually this Riven Mods is just one of the elements that make the game unbalance. But it should not be the one to be blame for make it unbalance. Riven Mods encourage players to play/grind more which is good for me who already had nothing to do since there is no reward in endless mission.

If you want to see the true balance game, it was when you are still MR0 and shooting with braton in Mercury. The moment you step on Earth, you see the unbalanced part of the game. The enemy become so strong and crowded. It left you with no choice but to power up.

How much you power up depends on:

1. Top Tier weapons,

2. Max Mods,

3. Warframe ability.

4. Enemy scaling and ability.

From these 4 factors, Riven Mods implication on balance is only a small portion. With mod capacity of 8 slots. Riven mod boost the power of having 3 mods into one mod (perfect roll). While Prime mods are 2 mods in 1 mod. So having Riven Mod we have boost our Power into 10 slots instead of 8. Weapons and mods are there to compensate our warframe scaling factor towards enemy scaling. In conclusion Riven Mod is not the main reason game is unbalance.

 

[Tyrarl]

5 hours ago, Hitexh said:

2. RNGesus. Are you not playing warframe till now? From the part of prime grind, mods grind, even the arcane energize farm, are all around RNG. Why suddenly you blame the mod  has to change? Arcane Energize is a game breaking but acceptable?

People have done better dissecting the rest of your post. I'm just going to say something about this though.

RNG for void drops is not the same as Riven mods, because even BEFORE the relic system I could control which table I pulled from by running specific missions.

RNG for mob drops is not the same as Riven mods, because I can control where I hunt (which affects what spawns in a given mission) and I can use tools like Pilfering Swarm or Desecrate to even the odds in my favor.

RNG for Endo is not the same as Riven mods, because there's very specific things I can do to increase my Endo at a decent rate, such as hunting for Ayatan or doing Dark Sector Excavation on Pluto for the 400 Endo drop, or using Hydroid/Nekros again to even the odds in my favor from mob drops... AND while doing all that I can sell all the duplicate mods I get to boost my Endo even further.

 

Do you see what I'm getting at? Riven Mods are by far and away the most toxic form of RNG we have seen to date. You need to hope you get one from a Sortie, hope you get a challenge you can do with whatever equipment you have available, hope that an assassin doesn't show up and ruin your challenge, hope that it's for a weapon you actually like to use, hope that the stats on it make sense... and if it's not a good mod by any stretch of the imagination, you have to run high level grineer tileset missions and hope that the Kuva Siphon spawns, and then when you reroll, you have to hope that it's better than the first iteration and not somehow worse after you hope for another doable challenge.

That's about 8 layers of RNG for a SINGLE ITEM IN THE GAME. Nothing else in this game comes anywhere NEAR the absurdity that is Riven mods. Their current implementation is as toxic as a real life lottery system.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

No, I don't need to accept anything just because it exists. That attitude can justify anything without any logic behind the argument whatsoever.

Powercreep can be combated by nerfing(more efficient) or to a lesser extent buffing.

There is fun RNG that make you repeat content a handful of times, and there's infuriating RNG that make you repeat it 200. Your argument puts those two examples on exactly the same level, and if you connect straight up stat bonuses to the latter you're putting luck and performance into a relationship that is will make it so much more frustrating to reach the point of maximum efficiency. Properly balanced gear wouldn't cause that problem in the first place.

Ideally, luck shouldn't be a part of your performance in game at all, but we've all gotten used to that idea. Up to a certain point, that issue can be neglected because it doesn't take too much effort for players to gain the mods they need to be on par with everyone else. This new system introduces mods with nearly infinite stat combinations of which just a handful will be considered essential, and to get those players have to spend a completely unreasonable amount of time farming, first for increasing Kuva costs which practically limit the amount of times a mod can be rerolled, and second for new mods themselves.

So, a sea of uselessness you can fish in only a few times for the new meta mods before having to get a new rod. And you're trying to defend this as acceptable, fun game design? Don't kid yourself.

 

[Hitexh]

50 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

To make weak weapons usable? Then they're just ultimate band-aid mods which clearly not needed by Warframe. If they want to do it, just buff them, not adding more powercreeping mods that can potentially make even more god-tier weapons.

Agree. Dont screw the mods, just screw the weapons. LOL

The upcoming hotfix DE will nerf Riven mod for meta weapons, and I disagree just like you. If they want rescue the underused weapon, just buffed them.

[Hitexh]

38 minutes ago, mstriker said:

Maybe people should look at this before commenting

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/718938-spoiler-dev-workshop-new-mods/

 

I make this topic after looking at that thread. I dont like the nerf on the upcoming hotfix. Thats why here I am hoping DE can overlook the existing mods.

[Hitexh]

13 minutes ago, Tyrarl said:

RNG for void drops is not the same as Riven mods, because even BEFORE the relic system I could control which table I pulled from by running specific missions.

RNG for mob drops is not the same as Riven mods, because I can control where I hunt (which affects what spawns in a given mission) and I can use tools like Pilfering Swarm or Desecrate to even the odds in my favor.

RNG for Endo is not the same as Riven mods, because there's very specific things I can do to increase my Endo at a decent rate, such as hunting for Ayatan or doing Dark Sector Excavation on Pluto for the 400 Endo drop, or using Hydroid/Nekros again to even the odds in my favor from mob drops... AND while doing all that I can sell all the duplicate mods I get to boost my Endo even further.

OK i agree the new implementation of Fusion core and void system is good. Let says we got Nekros prime set in one run, happy? of course I like it, but then I have nothing else to do. Well but this is another matter on upcoming nerf in Riven Mod.

Because majority dont like the RNG stat of Riven Mod, DE took it wrongly and come out with nerfing riven mod. This is upsetting. You Think Braton only got bad stat? no. even Simulor can get bad stat riven mod. So its fair.

[TheBrightKing]

14 minutes ago, Hitexh said:

I make this topic after looking at that thread. I dont like the nerf on the upcoming hotfix. Thats why here I am hoping DE can overlook the existing mods.

I do like it, since these mods are a good idea they need something like this

 

 

And also another way of obtaining them

[Hitexh]

31 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

This new system introduces mods with nearly infinite stat combinations of which just a handful will be considered essential, and to get those players have to spend a completely unreasonable amount of time farming, first for increasing Kuva costs which practically limit the amount of times a mod can be rerolled, and second for new mods themselves.

So, a sea of uselessness you can fish in only a few times for the new meta mods before having to get a new rod. And you're trying to defend this as acceptable, fun game design? Don't kid yourself.

 

Why not? its worth it, because I spend a lot on getting my existing riven mod. The new mod will replace the current one, but let it be. At least they are giving me more stick, instead of stealing my existing sticks. I am not defending the system, I am just defending existing riven mod. So I agree with you, please change the system, but dont nerf my mod.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Hitexh

[GKDK]

If this was DE's idea of end game, it's a flop. Not because I didn't get a riven that's great, I have a Soma critatonic doomanatrix. But the question is...do I even need one? My soma can already kill anything to complete anything the game has to offer.

This update once again fails to make an endgame system but adds another rng grindfest with layers and layers of rng. 

It's fun the first few times but after awhile, when the kuva siphon dont spawn after 10 runs, when I get worst stats afer cycling and realized its above 3k kuva to reroll, and when I'm about to restart the grind, I ask myself why am I doing this? 

*resumes playing other games*

Edited November 15, 2016 by GKDK

[Skaleek]

I got an amazing Cernos and Opticor riven mod, and i absolutely loathe the system... Not because of the Riven mods themselves, but because of the 15 limit, and because of the kuva reroll exponentially increasing cost.

[HomShaBom]

It is objectively a terrible system because of the randomness. You can invest thousands of hours into these mods and end up with absolutely nothing to show for it but a mod that increases impact damage and status duration on a weapon that deal slash damage and has no status chance.

I'm all for making new powerful mods for under used weapons, but the amount of randomness involved is absurd.This is the reason why I stopped playing Dungeon Defenders II and started playing Warframe. Now DE is making the same mistakes that TE made.

If the goal of these Riven mods was to make previously useless weapons viable and make people invest a lot of time farming, that could have been achieved by removing the randomness and make it so they can only be infused with Kuva instead of Endo. We would still have a grind for Kuva, like they want, but it would give people a goal that they can actually work towards instead of just crossing their fingers when they click the cycle button and end up with something even worse than what they previously had.

You can just write off everything I say because I'm salty about getting S*ty mods. But I can say you only like it because it makes you feel like a special snowflake that you were granted a favorable dice roll so other people cant get mods as good as yours. The reality of this situation is that players are being punished for being unlucky. That's really all there is to it. There's skill involved, there's no target or goal that you can work towards, and make progress on, it's all completely random. 100% based on luck.

Edited November 15, 2016 by HomShaBom