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Could we have optional older looking/sounding operators?


WastedAlmond
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Okay, I don't post often and mainly lurk so bear with me. This post will go over mainly mine and then my group of friend's opinions of the state of operators on the audiovisual front.

I will go through this in the following manner: 1. My issue with the matter, 2. My reasons and 3. My suggestion for how to fix this. I've put some though on this, so please at least hear me out.

1. My issue with the operators looking and sounding the way they do now, more specifically my operator:

1.1 I have lost all connection to my "character", and every time I see or hear the kid operator I get reminded of it. This was further brought to light during the: "War within" quest line, which for me was a little lukewarm, at best. This was due to the focus being more and more on the operator, an element I do not like at all, in its current iteration.

2. My reasons

2.1 I fear that the game's story will focus on the operators more and more, and fear I will get alienated from one of my favorite games of all time, due to this.

2.2 I have generally never liked child protagonists, least of all when they are mass murdering wonder children. I find the concept slightly lazy and it does not appeal to me, moreover I rarely if ever connect with these characters.

2.3 Lastly fighting children make me uneasy, I had a violent childhood (not my parents, thank god), a thing I generally don't talk about, nor like to remember, and this reminds me of it. I do not want Warframe to poke at that scar all the time. As you can see this ties into statement 2.2

3. My suggestion

3.1 Add a "genemod kit" that allows for our operator to, at the price of a nominal fee, age or get younger. This would give you a new set of cosmetics (make new versions of the older stuff to fit an adult body or use the current syndicate jumpsuit) and audio (which would have to be brand new stuff as well), a huuge undertaking from the devs, and thus I would be ready to pay a premium on such an option.

3.2 Or we could find a story reason for this, we could for example have Teshin guide the Tenno on the path of becoming the master. So the Operator journeys to a shrine and begins his/her mental battle against the spirits of the shrine (gameplay). Nearing the end, the camera swoops out and we see days and nights flowing by in a blitz. Finally, once the battle is complete and the Operator is one step closer to becoming the master, the player is given a choice, to retain their current looks or to allow the effects of meager time to age their bodies, thus making the character a young adult. This could give some feeling of tangible progression, with the character getting older (optional) with some milestones. Also the option to revert or age would still be open if people want to mix things up for themselves.

3.3 No, I'm not asking for "sexed up" models, in fact a slightly atrophied or bio-mechanically enhanced look would fit the narrative better imo.

3.4 For me the operator would be so much awesome if they did not look, act nor sound like children. BUT I could still get behind a naive/childish adult far better than a little child.

3.5 This older looking and sounding operator would be optional, so if people like the current way of things they can keep it.

3.6 Lotus can still be our space mom! I'm grown up and still love my parents!

If you made it this far, thanks for reading, and please leave an opinion on the matter if you feel like sharing.

Also I can't speak for the inner working of my friends, but they agree with me in that the "kid operators" are a bit... "non-optimal", and adult version would be "badass". Generally my group of Warframe friends don't like the young operators.

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10 minutes ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

I believe it was Steve/Scott who recently said that they won't be adding more voice options for the Operator. Unsure if this is set in stone, however.

As far as I can remember that was in regards to TWW. Someone asked if there'd be new voices added in the update, and the response was no, but there'll be a lot of new voice lines for the existing ones.

Really not sure though, I can't find it.

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3 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

When they add more appearances and voices, I imagine this would be considered.

InB4 Consuming the Kuva elixir keeps you forever young while giving it to Teshin/Destroying it causes you to gradually age up. 

 

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9 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

When they add more appearances and voices, I imagine this would be considered.

 

7 hours ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

I believe it was Steve/Scott who recently said that they won't be adding more voice options for the Operator. Unsure if this is set in stone, however.

Actually, adding more voices won't really be necessary. I recall they don't want to record more lines with different people, but this thread started by @BalancedFury has a feasible solution:

Throughout that thread are some ideas for more unique voices. There are a few games with a slider like this, It would be really nice to have in Warframe. 

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I don't foresee this ever happening.

Creating new body types would require re-making every single outfit. It would greatly increase the workload and inhibit the addition of future cosmetics.

Additionally, from a narrative perspective it wouldn't make any sense -- in The War Within, they repeatedly refer to the player as 'child' or whatever. This would either require them to record entirely different dialogue to match an adult Operator or to simply keep the dialogue the same, and awkwardly refer to an adult as 'child'.

It's not strictly impossible, but it's just not a realistic expectation, unfortunately.

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It would be a ton of work for the devs, and is therefore unlikely to happen, but I would like that. If I'm going to be seeing much more of my operator, I'd like her to seem a little more in line with the general maturity of the game. The childish voice in particular always stands out.

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5 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

 

Actually, adding more voices won't really be necessary. I recall they don't want to record more lines with different people, but this thread started by @BalancedFury has a feasible solution:

Throughout that thread are some ideas for more unique voices. There are a few games with a slider like this, It would be really nice to have in Warframe. 

I disagree with pitch control. Very slight changes might make them sound older but straight up raising or lowering the pitch always makes voices sound bad.

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10 hours ago, AM-Bunny said:

I don't foresee this ever happening.

Creating new body types would require re-making every single outfit. It would greatly increase the workload and inhibit the addition of future cosmetics.

Additionally, from a narrative perspective it wouldn't make any sense -- in The War Within, they repeatedly refer to the player as 'child' or whatever. This would either require them to record entirely different dialogue to match an adult Operator or to simply keep the dialogue the same, and awkwardly refer to an adult as 'child'.

It's not strictly impossible, but it's just not a realistic expectation, unfortunately.

I think it could be possible, if done correctly, to avoid having to redo earlier audiovisual assets. They could make it so that "growing up" requires a certain quest to be completed (for example The war within), thus there is no need to touch the animation, audio or visual assets from preceding cutscenes or separate voice lines. And after that point they could take into account these things in future narrative stuff, also if resources are an issue they could place a grind wall before the free option and then sell a plat version for those who really want it fast.

As for narrative, old people have always called adults "children", either as a belittling or affectionate term, 60 years of difference and suddenly that 20 something year old is a child in your eyes. And in Warframe the people are super old, Lotus could be like thousands of years old, even at the point she first met the Tenno. Or we could interpret it to refer to the lack of mental maturity of our Tenno, adults can be immature and act like children, thus on the narrative side, I think Teshin/others calling the operator a child could be explained. It could even be interpreted as a sign of extreme affection in some cases, as Teshin could be seen as sort of a father figure.

If you were refering to the children of Zariman lines used throughout the game, I think it could still work, if the event "sired" these Tenno, these individuals will always be the children of Zariman, adult or otherwise as they were "born" of it.

As for workload, they could start small, a re-texturing of the syndicate jumpsuit and expand from there as and when they please. It could even be considered a separate cosmetic "item" and as such they could even get away with focusing on the main children cosmetics, and occasionally throwing something at the adult characters. And as the warframes are built around the adult body, the adult operators could even reuse some warframe cosmetics, to essentially cut costs for DE (syndanas, armor pieces etc. Not helmets though =P)

I think it could be possible, but I recognize that it is a huge undertaking if it will ever happen. The reason why I'm having this conversation is because I feel the game is slowly pushing me out, due to the focus on the operators in their current form. After second dream quest, I could disable the operator voice lines and only occasionally activate the "ultimate", I could avoid the operator. But now the new high level gameplay absolutely requires the use of the operator, which for me at least, is a major bummer.

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On 16/11/2016 at 6:20 PM, WastedAlmond said:

I think it could be possible, if done correctly, to avoid having to redo earlier audiovisual assets. They could make it so that "growing up" requires a certain quest to be completed (for example The war within), thus there is no need to touch the animation, audio or visual assets from preceding cutscenes or separate voice lines. And after that point they could take into account these things in future narrative stuff, also if resources are an issue they could place a grind wall before the free option and then sell a plat version for those who really want it fast.

As for narrative, old people have always called adults "children", either as a belittling or affectionate term, 60 years of difference and suddenly that 20 something year old is a child in your eyes. And in Warframe the people are super old, Lotus could be like thousands of years old, even at the point she first met the Tenno. Or we could interpret it to refer to the lack of mental maturity of our Tenno, adults can be immature and act like children, thus on the narrative side, I think Teshin/others calling the operator a child could be explained. It could even be interpreted as a sign of extreme affection in some cases, as Teshin could be seen as sort of a father figure.

If you were refering to the children of Zariman lines used throughout the game, I think it could still work, if the event "sired" these Tenno, these individuals will always be the children of Zariman, adult or otherwise as they were "born" of it.

As for workload, they could start small, a re-texturing of the syndicate jumpsuit and expand from there as and when they please. It could even be considered a separate cosmetic "item" and as such they could even get away with focusing on the main children cosmetics, and occasionally throwing something at the adult characters. And as the warframes are built around the adult body, the adult operators could even reuse some warframe cosmetics, to essentially cut costs for DE (syndanas, armor pieces etc. Not helmets though =P)

I think it could be possible, but I recognize that it is a huge undertaking if it will ever happen. The reason why I'm having this conversation is because I feel the game is slowly pushing me out, due to the focus on the operators in their current form. After second dream quest, I could disable the operator voice lines and only occasionally activate the "ultimate", I could avoid the operator. But now the new high level gameplay absolutely requires the use of the operator, which for me at least, is a major bummer.

This, though i would like to add that the aging either not be too significant to maintain the flow among all the quest lines; like lets say capped at 18 or so, of which one becomes a young adult and thus can have adult features while still having the liberty of being called children due to the obscene age gaps, like hek Darvo is like hundreds of years old yet he is still considered young.

OR

Alongside the one above, have the aging effects locked out of quest lines prior to that of the Update that includes the aging feature and also having the switching between young and older be free and toggleable once unlocked that would avoid having to redo the countless assets.

Oh and another thing that people all across forums keep forgetting, Warframe's universe is still ongoing, just because the Operators were once called children, doesn't mean that time stops progressing for them and they are forever cursed or blessed with being 15 year old children, that said it is even evident in TWW that the Tenno matured a bit, even if just mentally. They even stated that they are a child no more. They could be called children once, but it doesn't have to stop character progression.

Edited by Whitefox
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+1 for the pitching, even if they give us the option to make the voice weird sounding by pitching to high or to low, its something you alone experience and i dont see any problem in that.

The rest, is a bit "meh", more options to individualise your operator would be nice, but the work that would go into aging the whole stuff could be better used to make new stuff for the existing operators or the frames themselves. If you dont like the childish look, you can disable their voice stuff in the options and close the hood. To be honest, and i dont want to attack you in any way, but your concern is like telling the producers of Lara Croft "i dont like to play female, make her male or i quit".

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1 hour ago, Progr3zz said:

+1 for the pitching, even if they give us the option to make the voice weird sounding by pitching to high or to low, its something you alone experience and i dont see any problem in that.

The rest, is a bit "meh", more options to individualise your operator would be nice, but the work that would go into aging the whole stuff could be better used to make new stuff for the existing operators or the frames themselves. If you dont like the childish look, you can disable their voice stuff in the options and close the hood. To be honest, and i dont want to attack you in any way, but your concern is like telling the producers of Lara Croft "i dont like to play female, make her male or i quit".

Thanks for being frank, and polite. To refer your Lara Croft statement, I don't entirely see it the way you do. Sure Lara Croft is the protagonist in Tomb Raider, but for me in Warframe the protagonists or focus has long been on the warframes themselves (Generally adult human shaped ninja machines of death). It wasn't even right after the operators were introduced that I started having really any mentionable issues with them, apart from generally "meh". It was only after "The War Within" quest, where it was super clear that the new protagonists are going to be the operators, and that focus is shifting strongly in their direction, with gameplay that revolves around them.

So in my mind, they kinda replaced cool ninja adult "human(ish)" protagonists with just children, which at least to me clashes with the overall grimdark theme of the game.

So for me, at least, going back to Tomb Raider it feels like they replaced Lara as the protagonist with a completely unknown 12 year old, whom I don't really get at all as a character. And as a result I would like to have "Lara" back or even have some middle ground that is a little more to my liking. So yeah, that's my point of view. I hope I didn't come off as overtly defensive or offensive.

All in all it would obviously be a big task for the devs, but it could prove to be financially viable. As I am sure there are a bunch of people willing to put some coin into either unlocking (young)adult operator skins/audio, or if said skins/audio are free, unlock some cosmetics for them. Because currently, at least for some, if you don't like the current age/general look of your operator, you will definitely not be buying any cosmetic baubles or suits with plat for said operator. And some of the people who like/are not opposed to the current child looks, could also get the adult stuff, as they may like em more.

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I'm down for it. It would be a good way for the story to progress, and to really see the age of the Tenno. Most forget that we've actually slept for millennia, so something had to have kept us young for so long - I doubt its cryostatis because we've been using Transference all this time. Wouldn't be surprised if the physical conditioning module or something in the orbiter broke or could be broken/purged.

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  • 3 weeks later...

the idea of putting it behind a future update sounds really cool training with Teshin maybe lotus or syndicate members gradually aging your Tenno and making them stronger only to eventually suit up in there warframes Ironman style to hunt down and destory a big baddie like Hunhow that almost killed us as kids 

sounds like an amazing way for DE to continue the story 

also the robotic limb thing sounds really cool 

i

 

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