Riven mods, Power creep and RNG - DE, it's time to stop.

[Olematon.Mies]

DISCLAIMER - What I have written here may not be 100% accurate as it is mostly based on my own opinion and experiences. Keep in mind that I have 2500+ hours logged in over the course of 3 years. I will be talking a lot about power creep in this post, and my definition of power creep mostly based on this source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

 

Oh boy... where do I begin? For some reason I am so triggered over this topic that I can't stay silent any longer, so allow me to rant and blow off some steam.

 

When TWW first launched, I was happy. Very happy. The wait was finally over, the new quest was here in all its glory, new everything. It was magical. Riven mods too. At first I was excited to see a new system like this - randomly generated, potentially very powerful mods for a randomly chosen weapon with re-cyclable stats. What could go wrong?

I didn't see it immediately, but not too long after thinking I saw what was wrong about Rivens. Everything. Everything that could have possibly gone wrong, went wrong. Very, very wrong.

On paper, a system like this sounds great. On paper, this has incredible potential. On paper, in a small scale this kind of a system works wonders.

However, what we were given is not on paper. It still has potential, but that potential is far past game-breaking. with ascale is so astronomical that it will never be even close to working in a way that benefits everyone equally. That is broken.

But how? How can this be so broken when all it does is benefit everyone? Well... the answer is just as simple as one word - Luck. At their worst, the Riven mods are as good as it not existing in the first place. At their best, the mods are essentially free tickets to Godhood. On the right weapon with the right stats these mods are Godlike, as they can make previously unpopular and underpowered weapons great and on par with the current reigning champions of God-tier weapons. And you know what? That is exactly the problem.

For the past 2 years the weapons we have been getting have only been increasing in power, with a few exceptions here and there. Back then it was not too bad, as the selection of weapons was smaller and so was the scale of everything. Power creep was still a thing even back then, but overall it was nothing game-breaking. However, sad to say, but what little rivets of balance remained in Warframe in the past are now torn, ripped to shreds and tossed to a dark alley. Do we really need a mod - a single, randomised, potentially almost worthless mod - to bring an underpowered weapon back up from the grave? Do we really need that, when the mod itself is not even guaranteed to do so? I am absolutely certain that no, we should not need to use an unreliable mod to make up for an ever-increasing problem in power creep. The way I see it, there are 3 posible solutions to this.

Solution #1 is to go and completely rebalance every single weapon in the game to follow some form of a base-line. Let's say that this base-line is that an unmodded Braton can barely kill a level 7 Grineer Lancer. With this set as the definitive base-line for weapons, we could balance the rest of the weapons according to match this base-line in every aspect with a clear formula. Does it have high fire rate? Give it low base damage. Does it have a small magazine? Make it reload faster. Does it have higher base damage anyway? Make it reload slower. You get my point. With a clear formula that every weapon follows, it will be possible to make a well-balanced set of equipment with the only real variable being the player themselves - Do they like to use high fire-rate, low damage spray cans? Or do they enjoy the slower, more accurate, more powerful semi-auto rifles? I believe that all weapons general performance should be more or less the same, so ultimately their performance is limited by the user, their preferance and their skill. When choosing what weapon one wants to equip into a mission, the question should not be "What is the strongest and biggest stick?" and instead the question should be "What do I want to use today?" and in doing so, these Riven mods give more variation into the mix without absolutely destroying it. Something for everyone.

Solution #2 is to get rid of the Riven mods entirely and refine the system to a much more acceptable level. As they are now, Warframe is not ready for mods as powerful as some of the combinations that the Riven mods have, and how powerful those combinations can be on certain weapons - for example +161.7% crit chance and 92.9% multishot... on a f***ing TONKOR of all things. That is better than Split Chamber and Point Strike COMBINED! Or how about another example - +82.6% slash, +71.2% Status chance and + 130.4% base damage.... for the Soma. This is just way too much, and that's not even close to the other ridiculuse stats for weapons that already are way too powerful.. We all know how powerful both of those already are, so why in the hell should they, or any other weapon be allowed to exceed that and make the entire game trivial?

Solution #3 is to not do anything about the ever increasing power creep and let it run rampant. This is admittedly the easiest route, but should things keep going this way.... I'm not sure how much longer I can enjoy this game when all content becomes so trivial that all I need to do is look at a lv100 Grineer Napalm and it already falls over from fright, the poor thing. To me, that is not fun. To me, it is not engaging.

 

Now, to the subject or RNG. Here we go...

Let's face it - the RNG wall that these Riven mods are being placed is absolutely ridiculus. Wall #1 is the sortie drop table. Wall #2 is how punishing the unlock challenge is going to be. Wall #3 are the stats that get applied on to the mod itself. Wall #4 is what weapon the mod is equippable on. That already puts one Riven mod behind a quad-RNG wall in order to even get one, but that's not even the end of it. Optional wall #1 is the Kuva grinding if you want to re-shuffle the stats of your Riven mod if you don't like what you get the first time. Optional wall #2 is yet another challenger, however brutal or kind it might be. Optional wall #3 are once again the stat rolls and how lucky you can get. So assuming that you shuffle your mod ONCE, your mod is now behind a total of 7 RNG walls, with another +3 for each re-shuffle. Just... really? I do not understand the idea behind this excessive use of RNG in not only on the stat types, but on the amounts as well.

We are almost in a similar place as back when Hydroid first came out. He was behind a quad-RNG wall as well, maybe even more. And how did that turn out, I wonder?

 

With that said, I do hope that DE does something about the ever growing issue of power creep and excessive use of RNG. Honestly, RNG is a wonderful thing when done right and used in the right places, but there are times when RNG is simply not good when used way too much. RNG is a good servant, but a bad host.

[p3z1]

Too long, skimmed.

Just limit Riven mods to the lower-tiered weapons.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Riven mods are just another hamster wheel.

Since most of the content players experience doesn't require these mods I view them as just another form of e-peen.

At the moment they're opulent and pointless, but maybe DE will someday create content (or adjust player power) to make riven mods relevant.

[painterman]

Its just another kind of "endgame". At first, i thinked like the 90% of the people: powercreep+insane rng. Now, after the dev post, i think they are somewat fair. Why? because if its in an underpowered weapon, it can be brough up a few "tiers" with a bit of efort( or even none¡¡¡) and if its on a overpowered weapon( EJ: soma, simulor, tonkor, etc) it wont make it more overpowered, they already are top tier, and already cheese tru 90% of the game, with the new mods, and made perfect, they will cheese tru 92% of the game. More important, this mods add the posibility of utility+the dmg lost of not using another 90% element just to fix some weapons falls( like low ammo reserve, or need punchthrough).

There are other things, like why the F**** it the cost gets so dam high so soon, at a point were is just better to let it go and try to get another mod, but you cant because there is no reliable way of getting then for now, and then you leave for another 3 monts beacuse there is nothing left for you to do, but thats another history.

[Olematon.Mies]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Riven mods are just another hamster wheel.

Since most of the content players experience doesn't require these mods I view them as just another form of e-peen.

At the moment they're opulent and pointless, but maybe DE will someday create content (or adjust player power) to make riven mods relevant.

For now they might very well be exactly that, another hamster wheel.

For now. In time, if nothing is done about the balance of the game, they will become a necessity. DE can easily create content where it is an absolute Must to have a Tonkor with a riven mod that increased Crit damage, base damage and multishot. You can put a tinfoil hat on me if you want, but I can already see the meta of the game going towards that if these mods remain as they are.

Edited November 15, 2016 by maikkeli31

[RagingGrizzly]

These mods can be powerful, but it takes a lot of work and time (Constant re-rolls on them because we almost always get  rolls because of all the stats that can be applied to the mod itsef) to get them like that. Right now I'm trying to get my Karak riven mod to actually be useful, but after the 5th (or so, I lost count) re-roll, the grind to keep getting more kuva outweighs my desire to trying to make it useful.

These mods are pretty much a ton fo risk (In terms of time) for the payout for a really good mod on a weapon that is really outperformed by others, or a weapon that is already good. They could still use a look at, but not in the way you think.

[Banansa47]

Yea this was just another band-aid solution's of their player population lost since the kept teasing us way to much with the war within that many left.

really riven mods should have been utility focused not damage buffing.

all this does is give them a reason to use the poor scaling system they put in place.

[Olematon.Mies]

6 hours ago, Banansa47 said:

Yea this was just another band-aid solution's of their player population lost since the kept teasing us way to much with the war within that many left.

really riven mods should have been utility focused not damage buffing.

all this does is give them a reason to use the poor scaling system they put in place.

I believe that these mods will make people quit the game faster than actually give people incentive to grind too much on them.

Anyone with even a portion of reasonable thinking capability left can tell that these Riven mods are only going to hurt the game and make the balance issue that much worse.