Jump to content
[DE]Rebecca

[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1!

Recommended Posts

Finished The War Within? If so, then you've received your first of a new class of Mod: Riven Mods!


Riven by nature stands for 'to split or tear apart violently' - which is an accurate summation of everyone's reactions to them! Cephalon Samodeus invites you to learn more about them and Mods in general here. For those of you who don’t know the specifics, Riven Mods have randomly generated stats (including MR requirement and polarities) for one randomly-selected weapon that are revealed once you complete a specific challenge.


Firstly, we should all understand our goal and why this goal existed in the first place:

We want to give players something unique to them that can speak to their wider Arsenal. We want to give new life to the Arsenal in a non-static way.

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style. We’re all familiar with blazing through missions to the Extraction Point, but this system gives players new challenges that require them to test the creative limits of their Arsenal in their quest to Unveil their new Mods. Yes, meta weapons are in the selection pool, but Riven Mods are not needed to make this gear (like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor) more powerful. What they can do is add an interesting buff to a comparatively underpowered weapon in order to encourage players to think outside of that meta box.

This is why we have prevented players from choosing what weapon the Riven Mod will be for; if we didn’t, we would end up with millions of Soma Mods and none for the Gorgon. The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

We have started to add quirks to weapons, as shown with the recent Syndicate Melees, and this is supposed to be a continuation of that train of thought: we want players to be able to use their weapons in new ways that typical builds don’t encourage or allow. The current maximum number of 15 Riven Mods is a reflection of this, as limitations encourages creativity and choice.


Secondly, this system will be slow to roll out and include iteration.

Perhaps you've noticed only Rifle Mods exist in the Riven tier at this time - this is no accident.

We want to hear what our community thinks, which is the reason why we only implemented these for Rifles. Perhaps there are tweaks to this system that can make these Mods more unique and interesting beyond randomized stats so that our intentions are clearer. This mechanic is something that hasn’t existed in Warframe before, and we want to be careful in making sure it doesn’t undermine our ultimate goals for the game.

We took a risk (Warframe wouldn't be here without risks), and the insight our fans offer us is so incredibly valuable as we work to make Riven Mods, and Warframe, better. As Developers, we want to emphasize: nothing is set in stone. Warframe is known to be always changing and adapting. Remember that groups work best together when respect is shown, so while we can and do look past a lot of vitriol to find what you think, it's better that you express your thought without it.


Lastly, what is the immediate iteration you can expect?

In the past 3 or so days since The War Within has been released, our community brought up some very pertinent points concerning this system. The first is trading, and the lack of UI indication of how many times a Mod has been Cycled and the Weapon it is for, which will soon be added to both Veiled (after the initial Unveiling) and Unveiled Mods. For example, a Cycled Lanka mod will appear as Lanka Riven Mod until it is unveiled again.

Your commentary about meta weapons has been taken to heart as well, and we will be tweaking the algorithm to account for 'Riven Disposition'.

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones. Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix. Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem. We wanted this system to allow players to experiment with their Arsenal in existing end-game missions. It's not our intention to add content where these Mods will be necessary - it brings new ways of experiencing the existing game.

These are just some immediate changes we will be making, but we will be taking the rest of your feedback into consideration as we further develop this system.


Thank you for taking the time to read this post. The Riven system will go and change, and for those who choose to use it, this is a post that covers what you can expect!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

Interesting, thanks for the insight Rebecca.

i'm questioning how people manage to read this fast

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Jakkyr said:

i'm questioning how people manage to read this fast

Fast reader, I saw it in new topics when she posted it and was more interested in the "What happens now" parts than "Why this exists" but all of it is interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate the news that meta weapons will be having their Riven stats decreased, while underperforming weapons get more boost, as this will effectively level the playing field.

Edited by AandOE
Forgot the other half. Oops! :3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So existing OP Riven Mods are going to be nerfed? Oh, this is going to be delicious.

I really enjoy the concept, and I think it could use some alterations (more ways to gain Kuva, and I'm really not fond of infinite increasing re-roll cost) but hopefully this system will get a generous amount of attention.

Appreciate the workshop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The idea to bring old weapons back into the light was a good choice, but the "borderlands" style rng is tough. Meta players will always gravitate towards the OP weapons (such as Soma, tonkor, and synoid simulor) knowing that rivens will just boost the damage. I hope that the mods offer a QoL changes instead, like faster reloading or weapon swapping, instead of adding multishot, crit chance, and damage all bundled into one beautifully destructive mod. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a mastery rank 22 player who had taken a break for a couple months, these mods really reinvigorated my interest in Warframe and I'm really exited to get Riven mods for my favorite weapons that aren't quite top tier.

There are a few things I think should change:

1. Add a weekly mission with Teshin to get a Riven mod, so that it isn't totally Sortie RNG

2. Don't increase the cost of rerolling mods. The reason people want to reroll a mod is because it is a weapon they like and they want the mod to suit it better, this simply discourages players from rerolling mods for weaker weapons.

3. Add caps to stat changes, -100% on basically any stat can ruin a weapon, if it is damage the weapon basically ceases to work.

 

Like it so far and can't wait to see it evolve!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the Riven system, it really brings new life to endgame and gives that visceral Loot feeling you get from games like Diablo/Borderlands.

More Please!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yes, meta weapons are in the selection pool, but Riven Mods are not needed to make this gear (like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor) more powerful.

My thoughts exactly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this new Mod type, anyone can get good Mods assuming the drops are in your favour, but you have to earn this one, and i like that. Thank you very much Rebecca.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If DE didn't make trash weapons then we wouldn't need a whole system to make them useful. Riven mods seem like a band-aid solution to the actual problem that DE makes some weapons obviously weaker than others. It's the power creep problem that has been building over time. Do away with Riven mods and look at how and what DE releases in general. I see this as unnecessary system clutter. My friends, as new players, are already confused as hell with what there is. 

Riven needs to go and a look at damage, enemy scaling, enemy difficulty, and weapon stats/enhancement, needs to be addressed to fix the meta and unused weapon issue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need some actual documentation on the suffix/affix elements for this system at the very least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This sounds like a promising first step towards refining this system.

Any thoughts on increasing or removing the cap. If the idea is to get people to use underused weapons in their arsenal, the cap seems counter intuitive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Props to you DE for enabling weaker weapons. Earlier today I watched two people trade Gorgon and Burston mods because they wanted a mod for their favorite weapon. I am now able to "minmax" my favorite weapons and actually see them perform instead of putting them back on the shelf and only using them for fun.

"'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa"

Can someone explain how MR works into this? Does my MR 23 help or hurt my chances at a powerful mod for a non-meta weapon?

 

Edited by -CM-Liverslices

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Creating mods without a bias towards builds and incentivising the usage of less 'meta' weapons is a noble goal for the system, albiet one its far from reaching and i don't believe this is something you'll be able to completely control since there's a very large human element to how these mods will be used and (in some cases) abused.

Riven Disposition is a must for weapons that already lend to the higher end of the power creep spectrum, however the effectiveness of randomisation is mitigated by the 20-70,000 concurrent players available to trade and receive these mods and ultimately a large factor of this system's functionality -as well as its potential monopolisation - is a strictly human element.

It's easy to say that the rules which the community govern themselves aren't the concern of developers, but in reality these mods have bred a very toxic underbelly in the community's attitude to how scaling is meant to be perceived, regardless of the system's intention - it is how it can currently be gamed that will decide the final factors for this system to sink or swim.

This needs a lot of community feedback and a lot of tweaking as soon as possible before the entitlements of the way things were cloud how things are meant to be.

I hope we can pull this system through for the future.

Edited by -CM-Phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please consider releasing features like this with temporary trade embargos. That way kinks can be worked out before people invest lots of real world money which is hard to rollback. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My one current thought upon this, while I wait for the dust to settle so to speak beyond some apprehension over the prospect of a shift in power for meta and non meta weapons is that If the cost for rerolling the mods is to remain, would it be possible to at least have some form of cooldown / reset / reduction for the cost, so that as time passes, the cost for rerolling it decreases back to its baseline?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it would be even better if they weren't locked behind sorties so you could get real feedback. and while youre at it fix the kuva enemies spawn rate>> 3+ days and not one has shown up in any high level grineer mission even on the fortress where they should be plenty.

could careless about riven mods and rifles had my fill of almost all the weapons when they were good @ their release, melee is all I want to see get a bit of power.

Edited by ranks21

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, thanks for the insight Rebecca. I'm curious as to who this new Cephalon is, but I guess time will bring us to him. On the other hand, and the real important thing, it's great to know what you wanted to do with them actually. I think it helps direct the feedback a bit too.

On my end, all I can say is that perhaps what's failing in this new system are, mainly, two things:

-The first one, and I'm pretty sure most people will feel the same way, is the fact that these new mods have no 100% certain way to be acquired. People get one for completeing the quest, and then we need to complete Sorties for a chance at one. That's not bad per se, I feel Riven Mods are a good reward for a Sortie, but the problem is we have nowhere else to get it, and as it stands right now, it's pretty possible to not get those many. This would make sense if these were instantly available to all players, but with the War Within requirement for Sorties AND the Mastery Rank lock in place, it's like you guys are already asking for a commitment from people to use them. So I strongly believe you guys should search for a way to add these somewhere else.

Personal suggestion here: People keep saying we don't have enough end game content. I see a correlation with Endless Missions here, you could perhaps try to add those to the later rotations. What the heck, now that Prime rewards are out of the question from the rotations themselves, you may as well relook into them, so that current rewards keep flowing at the same rate but we can have more meaningful stuff at the later levels. I know you guys can do it.

-Second one, but I'd really need to keep revisiting it myself: This feels like it should work like a Super powerful Corrupt Mod from the Derelicts, where you get a positive attribute at an expense. I'm pretty sure everyone has seen plenty of mods with only benefits. Taking into account we were foretold of a system that would give us "great power, but at a great cost", I'm asking myself where it's failing. Then again, as I've already stated, I need to check all the things people are running into before really asking myself what I'd suggest you here as a player. So I'll trust the community for this one.

 

Interested to see what comes out of this, I can't wait to finally reuse my cool looking stuff that's shelved at the depths of my arsenal. I'm looking at YOU Latron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This particular suggestion probably doesn't fit here, but it'll get seen and can be moved to the appropriate place

Since we have weapons with crit chances that can go over 100% and grant ever sought after RED crits, I was thinking that something similar could be implemented for status procs as well, a few weapons are able to reach 100% but they can never go above. I was thinking that we could try to have things changed slightly so that status chances above 100% would have an affect on the game. I have two ideas:

1) A 'red' status proc would either double the duration or effectiveness of a standard status proc giving either longer bleed or a higher bleed damage, etc.

2) A 'red' status prco if it was a secondary elemental proc (from two primary elements i.e. cold + fire) would also proc the status effects of the two primary elements that compose it.

 

Because of the Riven Mods, there is a fair chance that some other weapons previously unable to reach this 100% status threshold will finally be able to, and if it becomes more ubiquitous, I would like to see it have some additional fun effects if it becomes more widespread in the future.

A fairly loosely linked response to the topic of the OP, but I felt it was related enough to suggest this idea that literally just came to mind as I read it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Server said:

 I hope that the mods offer a QoL changes instead, like faster reloading or weapon swapping, instead of adding multishot, crit chance, and damage all bundled into one beautifully destructive mod. 

1

The problem being that if those are not substantial QoL changes, the players are likely to not bother using them with their immense drain.

If they were to give only QoL stats, then I would even go as far as suggesting to add a separate riven mod slot to each weapon and release some Doodads / challenge etc. that will unlock that slot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...