[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1!

[patty60205]

So people who paid tons for riven mods are ruined? DE should really consider hiring economists...

On a side note, DE wants us to use crappy weapons by giving us amazing riven mods...sure, but how about buffing the weapons themselves so they are not insanely under powered? That way no harm would be done to anyone.

Edited November 15, 2016 by patty60205

[patty60205]

1 hour ago, Virsalus said:

If they do not do it, many more people will be pissed off than just you few who thought it would be wise to spend loads of plat on these new and experimental mods. Who do you think DE should consider more?

They should tell us that it's experimental, but i admit, ive been playing so long and still failed to realize that DE likes to nerf things. It's definately my fault, right? Obviously people who buy plat to support DE should be punished.

[Qevo]

Cant wait to see my simulor mod be that useless that i will remove it.

[Virsalus]

12 minutes ago, patty60205 said:

So people who paid tons for riven mods are ruined? DE should really consider hiring economists...

Maybe you should hire an economist. Because an economist would have told you that investing high amounts of money into a volatile market is a very risky thing to do.

[titan_sLAyer_]

The mods are kinda okay-ish, but the thing that bugs me is that the moment these mods went live, I saw people selling soma/dread/tonkor and other op weapon mods for like 1k-4k plats...that's unfair cuz instead of players being rewarded for the effort that they put in,they are rewarded purely on the basis of RNG.

Instead of nerfing these mods you should make  these mods untradable.And u can make the RNG pick the weapon which has 2 of the following-

Below 100 base damage

Below 10% critical chance

Below 10% status chance

Edited November 15, 2016 by titan_sLAyer_

[patty60205]

5 minutes ago, Virsalus said:

Maybe you should hire an economist. Because an economist would have told you that investing high amounts of money into a volatile market is a very risky thing to do.

I am an economist, and no we wont say that. However, an investor or businessman might.

[(XBOX)BULLS 0N PAR4DE]

18 minutes ago, patty60205 said:

So people who paid tons for riven mods are ruined? DE should really consider hiring economists...

On a side note, DE wants us to use crappy weapons by giving us amazing riven mods...sure, but how about buffing the weapons themselves so they are not insanely under powered? That way no harm would be done to anyone.

 No one made anyone pay anything for a mod. If you were foolish enough to pay outrageous amounts of plat for a mod I have nothing to say buy, WHY?

[tnccs215]

10 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

I really hate this whole idea. Sorry nothing you can do can really fix it, at least for me. If the idea behind riven mods is to encourage players to use unused wepaons then, well, sorry but why? We don't use those weapons for one reason or another, either power or style.

Style has no solution. Though effectively just being a set of programming instructions, each weapon has a unique feel that will make it attractive to some people (and not to others). There is no solution for that, trully, and that is ok.

Power, on the other hand, does have. Either by buffs, or in this case, by Riven mods. 

I'm not saying that they currently are a solution-- the fact they offer bonuses that literally cannot be applied to some weapons, and the fact they are also applicable to powerful weapons means nothing but raised bars. But they can be tweaked into that.

Quite honestly, while I would otherwise agree with you, I think you fail to see that Riven mods weren't (t least, I hope they weren't) design with you in mind. That is, not with those that are satisfied with already powerful and very capable weapons, but for those who actually would love to use the Daikyu, or the Stradavar, but simply feel they just don't pack enough punch. And, compared to your beloved Soma, they don't.

What I'm saying is that yes, drop table dilution is too a problem in here-- but, unlike most cases in warframe, not because it is a good item hidden in an enormous amount of bad ones; but because it includes good items exclusive to already stupidly powerful items (that really don't need another good item) in the same table has good items for items that actually need said good items to be competent in "late game".

Your soma, does not need a power up. My gorgon does.

[PoisonHD]

There is only one thing I am really hoping for from this.... a cap on rerolling costs.

Edited November 15, 2016 by PoisonHD

[BornWithTeeth]

@tnccs215

 

See, I'd frigging love to have a pair of Riven mods which allow my Daikyu and Fang Prime to hold their own in really high level content. But....DE bundled Riven mods which help lower tier weapons with mods for, of all the damned things in the entire bloody game, massively boosting crit chance and damage for the Tonkor and Simulor. 

 

 

 

DE, I refuse to believe that this was a mistake. I really do. There is no way in hell that this was a simple oversight. This was a blatant attempt to put things out there which players would be tempted to shell out thousands of Platinum for.

[Nosaru]

I know that I already said it, but buff the riven mods drop. 5 sorties and still nothing (only endo and lens that you don't want to remove :7).

 

 

[titan_sLAyer_]

4 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

Style has no solution. Though effectively just being a set of programming instructions, each weapon has a unique feel that will make it attractive to some people (and not to others). There is no solution for that, trully, and that is ok.

Power, on the other hand, does have. Either by buffs, or in this case, by Riven mods. 

I'm not saying that they currently are a solution-- the fact they offer bonuses that literally cannot be applied to some weapons, and the fact they are also applicable to powerful weapons means nothing but raised bars. But they can be tweaked into that.

Quite honestly, while I would otherwise agree with you, I think you fail to see that Riven mods weren't (t least, I hope they weren't) design with you in mind. That is, not with those that are satisfied with already powerful and very capable weapons, but for those who actually would love to use the Daikyu, or the Stradavar, but simply feel they just don't pack enough punch. And, compared to your beloved Soma, they don't.

What I'm saying is that yes, drop table dilution is too a problem in here-- but, unlike most cases in warframe, not because it is a good item hidden in an enormous amount of bad ones; but because it includes good items exclusive to already stupidly powerful items (that really don't need another good item) in the same table has good items for items that actually need said good items to be competent in "late game".

Your soma, does not need a power up. My gorgon does.

You can't ignore the fact that the mods are not limited to just underpowered weapons. We spent hours to forma a weapon 5-6 times and now there's a mod selling for probably 5k plats that does the job without spending a single forma..that's not balanced at all

[ngrazer]

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style.

If you really wanted to force me as a player to use weapons I don't usually use, then you kinda failed. Because of this:

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The current maximum number of 15 Riven Mods

Why? Because, you see, we have: 1 warframe, 1 primary, 1 secondary, 1 melee, 1 sentinel/pet and (if you are using it) 1 sentinel weapon. Of course first of all I would've filled that 15 mod limit with 5 'mandatory' mods for those items, then 5 'off-mandatory' mods for these items, and what's left? That's right, 5 slots for every other mod. Ha. Ha.  

[patty60205]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE said:

 No one made anyone pay anything for a mod. If you were foolish enough to pay outrageous amounts of plat for a mod I have nothing to say buy, WHY?

Well DE did mention it's created for endgame, as a player with all the prime and most stuff in game, what else is there to do in the game? I dont think players who spend tons of plat should be tossed aside because we have a choice to not buy it. Why? Because if DE told us up front that it will change in the future, people wont dump plats on riven mods. What I am ultimately saying is DE shouldnt just put new things and mess around and say "oh its just an experiment thats all."

Edited November 15, 2016 by patty60205

[Virsalus]

1 minute ago, patty60205 said:

Well DE did mention it's created for endgame, as a player with all the prime and most stuff in game, what else is there to do in the game? I dont think players who spend tons of plat should be tossed aside because we have a choice. What if DE told us up front that it will change in the future? In that case would people still dump plats on riven mods? What I am saying is DE shouldnt just put new things and mess around and say "oh its just an experiment thats all"

Now you just sound like one of those people who'd sue a lighter manufacturer because nobody told them that fire can burn off your face...

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Hmmm. Look, DE and Rebecca, I really appreciate the Dev Workshop statement, but I am sorry to say that I find it somewhat suspect. The stated aim was to simultaneously make long term goals for invested players and encourage diversity of builds with under-used weapons, and that sounds great......but on launch, Riven mods included boosts which took top tier meta weapons and buffed them into orbit. It is simply not possible for that to have been an accident or an oversight. Those mods were created, the algorithms which generate them, the systems which catalog them, all of this was coded for, and all it takes is for someone who plays the game to look at one of the offending mods for about five seconds to realise the effect they will have. This did not evolve by accident over the course of several patches and updates, it was not a compromise between existing systems. Riven mods arrived pre-broken.

 

 

I find it highly doubtful that the entire process went by without even one person saying "Hang on a second, what are these mods for?"

 

 

I'm glad to hear that they'll be receiving a balance pass, but to be quite honest the entire thing has shaken my trust in Digital Extremes' mechanical development.

this pretty much.

seriously, with all due respect, but you wanna tell us you implemented riven mods for old gear to shine anew, for more building variety? you did in fact not expect people to shell out obscene amounts of plat for tonkor mods instead because, well, those are OP already and don't "need" it?? (which funny enough is pretty much admitting we do have alot of OP stuff which would usually deserve a nerf)... and all that  coming along the very same update that reintroduces incentives to go for hours in endless?

really? right...

[Caramello]

Sorry Rebecca you forgot to mention in your damage control post, that riven mods are a cash-grab, everybody is starting to notice it, you guys dont want another vacuum fiasco do you?

Edited November 15, 2016 by CarameIIo

[Kracken]

21 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- snip -

"Something is moving " that a good sign. IMO it is bad that "mandatory mod rework" was killed moved into the far future.

Randomly generated stats might be a source of frustration. And I will tell you two things - If we can we will do it and we will reroll the mods till we get a more or less suitable stats (if you are it a cost cap would be a appreciated). Second this is people will find and will exploit any weak points of any system.
There is also no fun for having a broken mod (e.g. + something + something - fire rate for gorgon).

The aim you mentioned is more or less missed. Most wanted mods are those for meta weapons (like Tonkor). in the weekend a crit dmg/chance for soma was sold for not less than 2.5 thousand plat. After the change (that i whole hearty give kudos for) there will be salt.

It is whatsoever good way to promote less powerful/popular weapons (like Gorgon or Gram... not yet that is). God knows what it would be if you implemented Riven mods for all weapons on the first day in its current state of affairs. But I'm looking forward to seeing mods for all weapons in (far) future (especially for GRAM).
What do you think of removing stats (like +/- of nonexistent weapon stat, e.g. puncture for elemental weapon ) or even some weapons (META ONES) from the Riven mod pool ?

I also think that have a arsenal full of weapons - more or less fun weapons(60 +)but not powerful ones, while having ~4 meta weapons- to be able to have only 15 Riven mods is suffocating.

Still... some weapons by just adding a mod that will benefit it by a ~1/3 of overall stats (full moded stats minus the one you subtract to install the Riven) wont make it end-game able in one go. its much more complex. A % boost wont benefit a weak weapon. I also think that a flat stat boost is plain, something more than that would be not only cool but also add some spice to the mods.

To be fair in about the time that Mod 2.0 shipped i posted a idea on forums that would re-add the features that weapon lost with the mod 2.0...

Edited November 15, 2016 by Kracken

[patty60205]

14 minutes ago, Virsalus said:

Now you just sound like one of those people who'd sue a lighter manufacturer because nobody told them that fire can burn off your face...

Ur metaphors dont make sense, im not suing anyone.  Here is a better one, you bought some food from the grocery store. The expiry date wasn't labeled properly and Two days later the food went bad, so you told the company to label it properly. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by patty60205

[-TSA-Rubicon2.0]

17 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

It is actually considerably worse than that.

 

- Riven mods are gated behind multiple layers of RNG. They may actually be the most RNG gated thing in the entire game, as they drop from the Sortie rewards pool, which can only be rolled once per day, they are for a random weapon, they have random stats, they cannot be directly improved if they are bad, you have to randomly reroll their stats using Kuva, which is also RNG gated in itself. There is nothing in them which is directed by player thought or strategy. You just throw yourself at a brick wall once per day.

- They do not serve their purpose of allowing true diversity of builds. Now, DE have stated that this was an oversight and that they will rebalance, but the sad truth is that where before I would have believed this and had a strong degree of cautious optimism, now I do not. I will believe it when I see it, and only then. Until then, Riven mods are a rare means of taking already overpowered builds and powersliding them through the gates of Valhalla with +103.76% Crit Chance and +79.1% Crit Damage.

- These RNG-gated tools of ultimate broken-ness will have an additionally adverse effect on acquisition and trading because of one other critical factor: they are limited availability as well as RNG-gated. They are Sortie rewards, which means they rotate by season. If you would like to try a Riven build for a Primary weapon when it is Melee season, you are out of luck.....but Trade Chat beckons. I really, truly do suspect that a hefty part of the design of Riven mods was an attempt to encourage trading using large amounts of Platinum.

 

 

Seriously DE. We're not idiots.

Good point! 
 I believe that this Riven Mods will be not so popular if they got nerf, because you need to remove one mod to fit Riven Mod. And not all weapons could let you do this.Since you have can be happy owner of 15 riven mods, this is not END GAME grind, because what is the point to farm Kuva ? once you got the mod you need may be 14/15 then u are in dead end :) 

[Otis.Driftwood]

Having these things locked behind ridicoulous RNG sortie drop tables is absurd.

If you want people to test these things out putting them behind a 1 in 8 chance once per day RNG wall isn't the way.

Your are already seeing the people who don't have riven mods complaining endlessly they cant get a single one perhaps a bit more prior thought should go into how we aquire these things.

While we are on the subject of sorties I was under the impression it was risk Vs reward. Rewarding players with 2000 endo or a lens for putting themselves through sometimes utter hell is NOT well for me very rewarding AT ALL.

Metallica's new song "Hardwired to Self Destruct" is how I believe you should be feeling right now as this whole thing is a damn fiasco.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Otis.Driftwood

[CorrinAvatan]

13 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

@tnccs215

 

See, I'd frigging love to have a pair of Riven mods which allow my Daikyu and Fang Prime to hold their own in really high level content. But....DE bundled Riven mods which help lower tier weapons with mods for, of all the damned things in the entire bloody game, massively boosting crit chance and damage for the Tonkor and Simulor. 

 

 

 

DE, I refuse to believe that this was a mistake. I really do. There is no way in hell that this was a simple oversight. This was a blatant attempt to put things out there which players would be tempted to shell out thousands of Platinum for.

Except, there is no way to buy a Riven mod from DE.

Everyone gets one for completing War Within.

Then, everyone can get one doing Sorties as a random chance.

So, the only way to buy Riven mods, is from other players.  

I'll admit that it MIGHT have had a few people pruchase plat just to buy that one mod, but in my experience, the people dropping thousands of plat are the more experienced farmers, who are able to make 200+ plat a day, and were just sitting on thousands of plat, just waiting for something worth their plat to show up.

For every person who spent 2000 plat, there was ANOTHER person who GOT 2000 plat, and can now buy things that THEY might like.  One of my friends who doesn't play that much got a decent Opticor mod, and was able to sell it for 600.  That's good for him.

Yes, it's a redistribution of the platinum, but aside from the interest generated by the system causing people to play more, I don't see how DE "made" a bunch of money off this system.

(and yes, I can understand that plat being used by the people who got it to then buy cosmetics and the like causes a drain of plat out of the economy, but I'm not going to go into fourth-level game economics here)

[DeadScream]

I... I don't know what to think about these mods. 

They bring interesting things for some weapons, and at the same time they become "yet another mandatory damage mod" solution. 

 

Where is Damage 3.0 ? Did you entirely scrap the idea of making the game better by bringing balance and real gameplay customization instead of this "collect good things to make your good things better" ? :(

[Firetempest]

Stats are boring as hell. Why are there not unique fire modes? Or bullet changes.

If a weapon is not hit scan. why not the opportunity for the mod to roll guided rounds that follow the cursor.

Or turn bullets into hit scan. Or add unique anti unit options. like that syndicate mod for miter you shared months ago that never happened that popped nullifier bubbles?

If something does not have a secondary fire, add a list of secondary fire modes it could choose from. Like if its semi-auto. add a full auto that wont let you move when you use it.

If its a laser gun. a secondary fire charge that uses the clip and creates a smaller volt energy shield in front of you.

Again. Stats alone are boring.

 

[tnccs215]

15 minutes ago, titan_sLAyer_ said:

You can't ignore the fact that the mods are not limited to just underpowered weapons. We spent hours to forma a weapon 5-6 times and now there's a mod selling for probably 5k plats that does the job without spending a single forma..that's not balanced at all

Oh, but I agree. Ence why I said this:

24 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

What I'm saying is that yes, drop table dilution is too a problem in here-- but, unlike most cases in warframe, not because it is a good item hidden in an enormous amount of bad ones; but because it includes good items exclusive to already stupidly powerful items (that really don't need another good item) in the same table has good items for items that actually need said good items to be competent in "late game".

Your soma, does not need a power up. My gorgon does.

Maybe you missunderstood me, and took the idea of "good things for good items in the same place as good things for "bad" items is the problem" literally? I meant to say the problem is the existence of said powerful mods, not that they are packed together.