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[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1!


[DE]Rebecca
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11 minutes ago, patty60205 said:

Ur metaphors dont make sense, im not suing anyone.  Here is a better one, you bought some food from the grocery store. The expiry date wasn't labeled properly and Two days later the food went bad, so you told the company to label it properly. 

It's not a better example because you can't know exactly how fresh food is. Common sense however is a thing everyone should possess. And it is common sense not to invest heavily in stuff that has been in the game for two days.

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23 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

@tnccs215

 

See, I'd frigging love to have a pair of Riven mods which allow my Daikyu and Fang Prime to hold their own in really high level content. But....DE bundled Riven mods which help lower tier weapons with mods for, of all the damned things in the entire bloody game, massively boosting crit chance and damage for the Tonkor and Simulor. 

This is actually something that must also be adressed.

Increasing the crit chance of Soma by 153% is awfully overpowered. Increasing the crit chance of Gorgon is mediocre at best.

Why? because the Soma has 30% crit chance, while the Gorgon has 10%.

This is the issue with multiplicative mods (with are the default). They give power to the powerful and give nothing to the powerless. Hell, if I don't use Point Strike in my Gorgon because it's not worth it, why would a quasi equivalent Revin mod be more desirable?

This is something that happens at others aspects of the game. Hallowed Ground, for example: gives a 20% armor buff. Irrelevant for those who have no armor (because it gives nothing more), and redundant for those that do (because they are so much more protected, they don't need it anymore).

The solution is simple, and already in existence in some Syndicate Mods: Additive Values, that add to the base instead of multiplying, create  much bigger difference on low stats weapons and a smaller difference on great stats ones. It even opens doors to actual new builds, like the Supra's Syndicate Mod makes it a (okayish) Status light machine gun; while the original supra is a raw damage LMG.

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Alright I'm going to go through this bit by bit. TL,DR is that Riven mods are easily the most RNG mechanic added to a game that already has absurd amounts of RNG and do nothing to fix any problems with meta mods and loadouts.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style.

This instead of just making old weapons good enough to use instead of meta weapons? You have created this system to FIX the disparity between meta weapons and old garbage weapons? Because you can get these mods for meta weapons, there is a disparity between a perfectly Rivened garbage weapon and a perfectly Rivened meta weapon. 

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We’re all familiar with blazing through missions to the Extraction Point, but this system gives players new challenges that require them to test the creative limits of their Arsenal in their quest to Unveil their new Mods.

The problem is some of these challenges are trivial (get 350 kills in one day) to outright absurd (capture simaris targets without traps or powers without getting hit while having hobbled dragon key equipped). You have created a disparity for players to even get these weapons. Some people will NEVER be able to unveil some Riven mods due to these absurd requirements.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yes, meta weapons are in the selection pool, but Riven Mods are not needed to make this gear (like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor) more powerful.

See above, a meta weapon that has a good Riven mod will always be chosen over a garbage weapon with a good Riven mod.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

What they can do is add an interesting buff to a comparatively underpowered weapon in order to encourage players to think outside of that meta box.

Adds an Interesting buff? It just adds up to 4 stats that are available in other mods in a chaotic (read RNG) way, I would hardly call that interesting.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is why we have prevented players from choosing what weapon the Riven Mod will be for; if we didn’t, we would end up with millions of Soma Mods and none for the Gorgon.

So you just decided to leave it up to RNG, instead of maybe giving us a few choices, or maybe having a table of the least powerful weapons and letting us choose from that? That would have been more in line with your goals.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’.

Without any guarantee of the mod getting better with each exponential roll, the chances of an even remotely "perfect roll" are extremely low. Or worse, it is stuck behind an absurd challenge to even unlock it again.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

Is that avenue trading significant amounts of platinum?

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have started to add quirks to weapons, as shown with the recent Syndicate Melees, and this is supposed to be a continuation of that train of thought: we want players to be able to use their weapons in new ways that typical builds don’t encourage or allow.

Syndicate melee weapons were interesting idea (I love my Vaykor Sydon). Moderately powerful weapons that have an extra interesting mechanic in them for free. However, Riven mods do not continue this train of thought at all. Continuing that design philosophy would have Riven mods giving a decent bump to a stat or two, then adding an interesting mechanic on top of that.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The current maximum number of 15 Riven Mods is a reflection of this, as limitations encourages creativity and choice.

Limitations remove choices. Having a maximum number of 15 Riven Mods does nothing to further the goals you have laid out with this system. What Limitations do encourage is trading, and trading for platinum.

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


In the past 3 or so days since The War Within has been released, our community brought up some very pertinent points concerning this system. The first is trading, and the lack of UI indication of how many times a Mod has been Cycled and the Weapon it is for, which will soon be added to both Veiled (after the initial Unveiling) and Unveiled Mods

Because the players need to know if the Soma and Tonkor Riven mods they paid a lot of platinum for can still get the "perfect roll" right?

19 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your commentary about meta weapons has been taken to heart as well, and we will be tweaking the algorithm to account for 'Riven Disposition'.

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

Then why not let us pick what weapon the Riven mod is for? Then it could be a bad Riven mod for an already great weapon, or a great Riven mod for a bad weapon. Unless you're not confident with RNG to properly balance weapons for you, instead of actually making old weapons useful.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

It's not our intention to add content where these Mods will be necessary - it brings new ways of experiencing the existing game.

There will be part of the player-base that will believe good Riven's are mandatory for high level missions.

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The Riven system will go

Yes, please

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

and change

.........

20 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

for those who choose to use it, this is a post that covers what you can expect!

Here's my biggest problem, there are going to be only two groups of people who are going to use Riven mods consistently.

  1. The people who genuinely got lucky through all the Random Number Generators and got a mod for a non-meta weapon that they love and that weapon becomes effective enough to use consistently. The people who manage to get a Riven mod from the Random loot table of sorties, that has a random challenge that they can complete, the Riven randomly binds to a weapon that they have and love, and it either has stats that are useful, or the player must go find Randomly Generated siphons to get enough Kuva randomly in order to Randomly cycle the mod, praying that it has a Random challenge that is complete-able every time that the stats are garbage.
  2. The people who buy Riven mods for non-meta weapons that they love and hope it's stats can make that weapon useful.
  3. The people who buy Riven mods for meta weapons so that they can min-max even harder.

Which group of people is going to be bigger? I think I can make an educated guess.

 

To try and sum this up, the game-play you are claiming to be fostering with this system is the edge-case scenario. The RNG of sorties followed by the RNG of the Riven challenge followed by the RNG of the Riven being an old weapon that the player will use followed by the RNG of getting good stats before it becomes prohibitively expensive or locked behind a challenge the player cannot complete makes the odds of this actually happening small.

Trading someone a Riven you have for a Riven they have has even lower odds, meaning you will be trading them for platinum. Which, if you are trading for platinum already, why not try and get the ones for meta weapons with your real-money.

The difference in playstyle you want to see, old weapons becoming competitive, is a good goal; something I've supported for a long time in WARFRAME (I'd do dark, unspeakable things to have my Braton Prime and Lato Prime be good again). However, trying to boost old weapons with this amount of RNG is not the way to do it.

What you have actually created is a real-money auction house for power. That is the only reasonable way players are going to get Riven mods for the weapons they want, whether they are meta weapons or not.

In trying to remove the disparity between meta and non-meta weapons, you have created a strong disparity between those who have useful Rivens, those who can buy useful Rivens, and those who cannot.

 

This is my last point, Steve said years ago that WARFRAME will live or die based on it's amount of content. Your last point seems to say "well if you don't like Riven mods, dont use them" even though the content should be designed for all the players to enjoy in order to keep WARFRAME alive. Unless you believe that the significant amount of platinum required to "Trade" the mods people do want will keep WARFRAME alive, which I hope is not the plan. 

I can't say I know how to fix  Riven mods because I never would have implemented them in the first place. However as above:

  1. Making Riven mods not tied to the sortie system to allow the playerbase a greater pool of them in order to get Riven mods for the weapons they want.
  2. If you are confident in your RNG so that weaker mods go on meta weapons and stronger mods go on non-meta weapons, then let players choose the weapon that the Riven will be bound to. Just make the Riven Bind to the weapon it was on when it unveiled.
  3. Change Riven's so that they give decent stat bonuses and a new, interesting mechanic, like the Syndicate Melee weapons that you referenced.
  4. Make Riven mods gain power simply by playing the game, like Syndicates or Focus. A long term system that has definite rewards along the way is far more FAIR than this feast-or-famine system totally based on RNG.

 

This went really long, thank you for making it all the way through,

Signed: A guy who has given this game an unreasonable amount of time and money, but enjoyed all of it.

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2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Hmmm. Look, DE and Rebecca, I really appreciate the Dev Workshop statement, but I am sorry to say that I find it somewhat suspect. The stated aim was to simultaneously make long term goals for invested players and encourage diversity of builds with under-used weapons, and that sounds great......but on launch, Riven mods included boosts which took top tier meta weapons and buffed them into orbit. It is simply not possible for that to have been an accident or an oversight. Those mods were created, the algorithms which generate them, the systems which catalog them, all of this was coded for, and all it takes is for someone who plays the game to look at one of the offending mods for about five seconds to realise the effect they will have. This did not evolve by accident over the course of several patches and updates, it was not a compromise between existing systems. Riven mods arrived pre-broken.

 

 

I find it highly doubtful that the entire process went by without even one person saying "Hang on a second, what are these mods for?"

 

 

I'm glad to hear that they'll be receiving a balance pass, but to be quite honest the entire thing has shaken my trust in Digital Extremes' mechanical development.

This guy gets it.

I invested alot of Platinum into the Weapons i play most and that are meta because i find them to have my desired power and utility at the same time. Now you are saying that what i invested in was a fake and shouldnt be for sale anyway. Good Job.

I dont know how this got greenlit by whoever made this system. It was effen obvious that ppl like me are loving to min max their gear when you are able to get absurdly good stats for meta weapons? I even applied for the test cluster and were told its already full? did they ever test this? who is testing this system and who is actually putting it in real world application?

i'm somewhat disappointed that we are getting punished for the lack of foresight of the obvious dilemma you are creating with the system. if you wanted to buff underused weapons then give them effects or stats that match weapons that are meta or nerf them all completely. there is no reason to play the tetra or dera with a riven mod when they still underperform heavily against a tonkor with 2 mods installed. in the meantime you introduce more and more powerful weapons with each prime access to give players a reason to buy it in the first place.

you are punishing your players with the lack of oversight and testing your systems before on a test cluster, which you are way to selective off.

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I think :

1) They are the worst thing you have added to the game since Corrupted Mods. Anyone who doubts the damage Corrupted Mods have done to this game should ask themselves if they didn't exist would we have the constant nerfs / changes to powers, E-Gate, Draco, Viver & AFK gameplay, and be honest with yourself! Riven mods are worse, they are a declaration that any semblance of balance is off the table.

2) You should now reverse the statement that you want to do something about mandatory damage mods. Because if you ever do something about Serration, Split Chamber, etc, you have only changed the mandatory mods into an "endgame" grind that is based on RNG, therefore even further increasing the gulf between old and new players. Of course if you plan to remove the damage aspects of Riven mods it beggars belief that you would add them now.

3) If you really wanted underused weapons to be used there are better ways of doing so than RNGiven mods. Syndicate mods, or a balance pass and tweaking some stats would have been far easier and less time consuming than implementing these mods!

I'm sure this won't be the popular stance on these mods though, because "MOOAAR POWA!!". Like the millions of enemies dying at the blink of an eye really warrants it...

Good luck with the tweaks though, you just massively increased the variables, and therefore the task at hand. Not exactly efficient, but the plat changing hands must help.

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2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

 

 

I find it highly doubtful that the entire process went by without even one person saying "Hang on a second, what are these mods for?"

 

 

 

We had a discussion with clanmates and we are still wondering why do we need this mod? We mostly fight vs lvl 50 mobs ( sometimes even less) so you dont need good mods) Honestly IMO this is just few weeks hype, then it will be huge dissapointmen, i am not gonna farm Kuva and i will still wondering what to play in this game ( most probably i will making circles in my liset )  For a moment i though this gonna be END game grind,which is kinda good imo,but now i release that when i got 15/15 mods ( most probably NERF mods ) i will stop playing again, and yes is DE saying to themself " Hang on a second, what are these mods for?" "

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

 

I LOVE that you're trying things, but I think you should have looked at what happened with Destiny, when they allowed (briefly) people to re-roll weapons at the Gunsmith.  If there is a way to get a perfect roll, people WILL go for it.

Okay, so my take on Riven mods:

1.  Riven mods should look at the stats of the weapon it is for, and the pros and cons should always affect the weapon in some meaningful way.  I saw a Dread mod with + 140% Damage, +123 Crit Damage, and something like -50% impact.  Dread only HAS 50 impact in the first place, so that "drawback" was so weak it's hardly a drawback compared to the benefits (which outweighed the drawback ENTIRELY).  I also saw a 187% crit chance/+120 Slash on a Tetra... which has a base crit of 2.5 (so jumping up to what, 6% crit chance) and ZERO slash damage, so 120% of zero is still... zero.  That mod doesn't bring it into viability territory at all.

Right now, re-rolling mods has gotten me so many rolls where the benefits are marginal at best, or flat out no benefit at all.  If the idea is that we are encouraged to experiment before we seek good rolls on it, then they need to at least roll with "huh, that's fairly decent" as a minimum.  I shouldn't look at it, and immediately laugh because it's giving the worst possible choices from a list, to weapons that don't benefit, as benefits.  I'm okay with you saying that the "ultra-meta" weapons might get differently-balanced riven mods.  But the "out of meta" weapons need to at least get mods that aren't fairly useless.

2.  Because of #1, the cycling costs going up exponentially are sometimes like a kick in the shins.  I re-rolled a riven mod, only to go from a Harpak +Fire Rate +Mag size - Accuracy, and got a +Impact +Slashing -Piercing.  Literally, if it was modded up all the way, the -Piercing would completely wipe the increase of the base 7 Impact Base 7.5 slashing 37.5 Piercing.  So, I rerolled, only to get "ha! unlucky you, this mod's "benefits" are completely outweighed by the drawback, so you have to reroll AGAIN."  If EVERY time I reroll, the riven mod is going to be at least an "Okay" mod, it wouldn't hurt as much.  But being told you need to farm 5,100 Kuva, because you kept getting crap rolls that weren't worth the mod space the mod as asking for... 

3.  Farming Kuva needs to be less RNG: there needs to be a consistent, active way to farm this. Right now, due to people wanting to re-roll, I bet you Rusalka on Sedna is getting a LOT more traffic, as people do Capture missions over and over hoping to get Kuva as a resource.  The fact that Kuva doesn't even show up every time, even on longer maps like Sabotage or Assault, makes it even grindy-er.  Not only do I need to re-roll a bunch just to get a DECENT outcome, but then I need to Grind the kuva to be ABLE to reroll, and not only that, but I need to grind MORE than what I did for the LAST time.

Look at Diablo 3's reroll system: it requires resources that you can CONSISTENTLY farm.  Basically if you sat down for about an hour (as I played, others got faster by playing on torment 10 or whatever)  and dedicated yourself to it for a bit, you'd have what you need for a reroll.  However, in their system, you CAN get a bad roll, but there is no exponential cap: that is why it is accepted.  It takes the same amount of time to do a reroll each time.  You're not in a situation where your roll is completely useless, and now it takes 8 times as long as it did your first roll to farm the materials for the roll.  and that's if you're lucky, and the map your on decides that yes, you CAN have some kuva today.

I'd prefer a system where you can actually get Kuva intentionally, like maybe Grineer Survivals or the like, an equivalent to Void Fissures.  I'd take getting less per instance, if I can guarantee that I don't do 10 missions in a row without even getting a chance.  I can consistently farm Void Traces, Credits, Endo, or any other resource.  With Kuva, I have to HOPE that I get a map that spawns the resource... not fun.  One way I'd suggest to fix that is that Kuva is something you can farm, but you spend Kuva and, say, Neurodes, to do the re-roll.  I know that there are many players like me that have 1000+ Neural Sensors and Neurodes and stuff like that; give us a sink for THOSE resources

4.  Discouraging re-rolls for "perfect roll" hunting seems counter-intuitive with this system:  This is where I feel you're missing some gamer psychology.  If we can get a perfect roll, there is incentive to try for it.  Look at Diablo 3, or Destiny's Gunsmith before they stopped allowing perk rerolls due to how that re-balanced the game.  If you can roll a BAD roll, you're encouraged to get a GREAT roll.  If you want to discourage hunting perfect rolls, then you need to make the system itself prevent that: give USEFUL rolls, but never the perfect one for that weapon.

 

5.  Challenges have made me think that most players are too hung up on their own meta to think outside the box.  Nearly everyone complains that their missions are too hard, yet, nearly everyone I see, I have either done, or could say  how to do.  Defense, Solo, no damage to the defense?  Ember, max range, with a ranged weapon, and Firequake, and a max-range ignis modded for blast, sentinel modded for blast and long range.  Killed the infested dark sector defense with no problems.  Honestly, the challenges are the only thing I don't have a problem with.

Edited by CorrinAvatan
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1 hour ago, tnccs215 said:

Style has no solution. Though effectively just being a set of programming instructions, each weapon has a unique feel that will make it attractive to some people (and not to others). There is no solution for that, trully, and that is ok.

Power, on the other hand, does have. Either by buffs, or in this case, by Riven mods. 

I'm not saying that they currently are a solution-- the fact they offer bonuses that literally cannot be applied to some weapons, and the fact they are also applicable to powerful weapons means nothing but raised bars. But they can be tweaked into that.

Quite honestly, while I would otherwise agree with you, I think you fail to see that Riven mods weren't (t least, I hope they weren't) design with you in mind. That is, not with those that are satisfied with already powerful and very capable weapons, but for those who actually would love to use the Daikyu, or the Stradavar, but simply feel they just don't pack enough punch. And, compared to your beloved Soma, they don't.

What I'm saying is that yes, drop table dilution is too a problem in here-- but, unlike most cases in warframe, not because it is a good item hidden in an enormous amount of bad ones; but because it includes good items exclusive to already stupidly powerful items (that really don't need another good item) in the same table has good items for items that actually need said good items to be competent in "late game".

Your soma, does not need a power up. My gorgon does.

Then again, they should buff those weapons. Think about what you are saying. TWW offered literally nothing to a large segment of the community then. Literally nothing (aside from the short quest). Riven mods are dominating the discussion and trade chat. They are the new "thing" to be acquired for completion and veterans of have done everything but collect the newest gear.... but they were meant only for people that use or prefer certain gear.

Buffing old weapons via an RNG Mod system, that is placed in the way as clutter for others is not a great solution at all.

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2 hours ago, patty60205 said:

So people who paid tons for riven mods are ruined? DE should really consider hiring economists...

On a side note, DE wants us to use crappy weapons by giving us amazing riven mods...sure, but how about buffing the weapons themselves so they are not insanely under powered? That way no harm would be done to anyone.

Some people paid 100-200 for lesser naramon lenses in the first week after focus was released. Then DE put Greater lenses in the market for 40p, making those lesser lenses worth about 10p.

DE released the relic system by making Ash BPs uncommon and Nova Systems common.... so yeah anyone who paid for those the week before got screwed.

They have a history of not thinking things through before they release them. DE should release 100% of new things untradable. Period. They should become trad-able only after a week or two of feedback, or a month.

So it's not unexpected. It has always been buy new things at your own risk.

 

Edited by Shockwave-
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1 hour ago, patty60205 said:

Well DE did mention it's created for endgame, as a player with all the prime and most stuff in game, what else is there to do in the game? I dont think players who spend tons of plat should be tossed aside because we have a choice to not buy it. Why? Because if DE told us up front that it will change in the future, people wont dump plats on riven mods. What I am ultimately saying is DE shouldnt just put new things and mess around and say "oh its just an experiment thats all."

 First off I am a MR22 in this game own yes own in my inventory every possible weapon except the damn duel either daggers but that is another story(Damn I wish I knew it was a reward weapon) that being said I also have tons of plat. Now when I get an update granted its on console so I have all the info at hand so its to my advantage but that is not the point, When we get shiny new stuff I sure as hell do not pay top dollar for them day one. I have the time invested into this game to know that what costs 100 plat day one will be 20 plat a week or 2 down the road. I'm sorry a lot of people can not control the urge to have stuff day one and get ripped off.

   So again I'll ask why are any of you felling ripped off when youre the ones that cant control something that you have 100% control of. I mean do you really and I mean really in terms of the game need these mods to keep playing as you were the day before they released? No, You want them to be a show off or desire to having something to feel like your the best. So no I do not in any way feel sorry for people like that and laugh at the ones that feel it is DE fault they got duped into buying something only to have it changed a few days later

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14 minutes ago, (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE said:

 First off I am a MR22 in this game own yes own in my inventory every possible weapon except the damn duel either daggers but that is another story(Damn I wish I knew it was a reward weapon) that being said I also have tons of plat. Now when I get an update granted its on console so I have all the info at hand so its to my advantage but that is not the point, When we get shiny new stuff I sure as hell do not pay top dollar for them day one. I have the time invested into this game to know that what costs 100 plat day one will be 20 plat a week or 2 down the road. I'm sorry a lot of people can not control the urge to have stuff day one and get ripped off.

   So again I'll ask why are any of you felling ripped off when youre the ones that cant control something that you have 100% control of. I mean do you really and I mean really in terms of the game need these mods to keep playing as you were the day before they released? No, You want them to be a show off or desire to having something to feel like your the best. So no I do not in any way feel sorry for people like that and laugh at the ones that feel it is DE fault they got duped into buying something only to have it changed a few days later

I have to agree.  Anyone who's played at all knows that the first day mods come out and are new, the prices a inflated REDICULOUSLY.  I was selling Drifting Contact and Chilling Reloads for 50p each when Nightmares came back.  made nearly 600p in one day.

To me, if people don't know that they shouldn't buy things before it's on warframe.market, that's the BUYER'S problem.

Edited by CorrinAvatan
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Welp, you said you wanted honesty from the community SO here is our collective wall-o-texts.

 

"Perhaps you've noticed only Rifle Mods exist in the Riven tier at this time - this is no accident.
We want to hear what our community thinks, which is the reason why we only implemented these for Rifles."

Okay then I will give my opinion.

"Riven Mods have randomly generated stats (including MR requirement and polarities) for one randomly-selected weapon"

Now see, here's the thing, we can stand and tolerate RNG for regular things in the game as you have not yet found a way around that yet. And even the RNG that's been iterated on so many times that already is in the game can either be good for you (I got all of the acolyte mods the first shot :)) OR you can spend YEARS working at something and never get it (I spent a year looking for a vectis receiver and then FINALLY got it a year later.) SO its DEFINITELY a non-optimal system. My argument and some others I have seen is that you put a random mod into an ecosystem of near-scientific measurement and testing. WHen I first got thsi mod I automatically assumed that "Well.. I guess we get a new slot to put this on...maybe the operator?...and WHY is it random?" But later found out it directly impinges on our currently OK (again, not ideal) mod system.

*So in short these mods need, I emphasize NEED a do over.* Because they mix warframes arguably best system with its arguably WORST trait.

cQ3elHF.gif

 

" Firstly, we should all understand our goal and why this goal existed in the first place: "

I understand. Your doing this for diversity of build, change meta and give veterans something to do.

" Secondly, this system will be slow to roll out and include iteration. "

Good.

 

" Lastly, what is the immediate iteration you can expect? "

At worst a repeal of this system, at best maybe change how the system works and maybe even make it not interact with the WARFRAMES at all.

 

"  Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem. " This though gives me good hope that this system will eventually improve the game over all if you take community feedback into account, make like your engine and Evolve.

 

Edit: As for non - meta weapons....I think fixes may just be the better solution for out of date weapons than RNG bonuses. To this day I have not upgraded or used my snipertron mod even though I could fully upgrade and use it right now because I don't think its a good idea (in case of rework and because the random stats are....non optimal, and random.)

 

 

]\'[

Edited by MokutoBunshi
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32 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

Some people paid 100-200 for lesser naramon lenses in the first week after focus was released. Then DE put Greater lenses in the market for 40p, making those lesser lenses worth about 10p.

DE released the relic system by making Ash BPs uncommon and Nova Systems common.... so yeah anyone who paid for those the week before got screwed.

They have a history of not thinking things through before they release them. DE should release 100% of new things untradable. Period. They should become trad-able only after a week or two of feedback, or a month.

So it's not unexpected. It has always been buy new things at your own risk.

 

 

u are right, and I do blame myself for forgetting that. But I think that doesnt make what DE is doing right. I think it's wrong and they should stop.

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16 minutes ago, (XB1)BULLS 0N PAR4DE said:

 First off I am a MR22 in this game own yes own in my inventory every possible weapon except the damn duel either daggers but that is another story(Damn I wish I knew it was a reward weapon) that being said I also have tons of plat. Now when I get an update granted its on console so I have all the info at hand so its to my advantage but that is not the point, When we get shiny new stuff I sure as hell do not pay top dollar for them day one. I have the time invested into this game to know that what costs 100 plat day one will be 20 plat a week or 2 down the road. I'm sorry a lot of people can not control the urge to have stuff day one and get ripped off.

   So again I'll ask why are any of you felling ripped off when youre the ones that cant control something that you have 100% control of. I mean do you really and I mean really in terms of the game need these mods to keep playing as you were the day before they released? No, You want them to be a show off or desire to having something to feel like your the best. So no I do not in any way feel sorry for people like that and laugh at the ones that feel it is DE fault they got duped into buying something only to have it changed a few days later

I think you are not right about that some people can not control themself, they believe that DE will not Nerf new things that they release and we ( Old players ) know that they always and always nerf  99% of the new stuff, but there is aways a HOPE that they wont do it. This is one of the reasons that they continue to lose players, which is really sad imo :( 

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I think it needs to be said, you're not going to convince anyone to make use of non-meta weapons if you force them to jump through endless hoops in order to do so [edit: and limit them to a total of just 15 out of all the weapons present, and give them very little control of choice which weapons those 15 are].

Just balance the base stats instead.  Make the game better for everyone, by giving everyone access to a wider choice of viable weapons.

Edited by polarity
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Problems I have with Riven Mods:

I can't get a mod 100% of the time, then I can't guarantee for which weapon (fine if you think I would hoard 15 Soma mods or something...), I can't work towards which combination of stats I get, and finally I can reroll to get a worse mod.

 

I would prefer to have at least a way to farm for these mods, I would like to (maybe) choose the weapon its for, and finally let me maybe pay more Kuva or whatever to work towards the stats I want AND NORMALIZE their % increase! I'm serious, we need standard % bonus on these mods, not a random roll on a random roll on a random roll etc...

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On 11/14/2016 at 5:14 PM, immolator1001 said:

As a mastery rank 22 player who had taken a break for a couple months, these mods really reinvigorated my interest in Warframe and I'm really exited to get Riven mods for my favorite weapons that aren't quite top tier.

There are a few things I think should change:

1. Add a weekly mission with Teshin to get a Riven mod, so that it isn't totally Sortie RNG

2. Don't increase the cost of rerolling mods. The reason people want to reroll a mod is because it is a weapon they like and they want the mod to suit it better, this simply discourages players from rerolling mods for weaker weapons.

3. Add caps to stat changes, -100% on basically any stat can ruin a weapon, if it is damage the weapon basically ceases to work.

 

Like it so far and can't wait to see it evolve!

Your "weekly guaranteed acquisition" is a great idea.

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31 minutes ago, polarity said:

I think it needs to be said, you're not going to convince anyone to make use of non-meta weapons if you force them to jump through endless hoops in order to do so.

Just balance the base stats instead.  Make the game better for everyone, by giving everyone access to a wider choice of viable weapons..

On top of that it should also be said that some weapons are way less used because they have bad mechanics, like way to much ammo consumtion or way to bad modability. A single mod, no matter how OP he is, will most likely not fix the issues for most weapons, it will just lift some of the OK weapons to the upper level.

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2 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Then again, they should buff those weapons. Think about what you are saying. TWW offered literally nothing to a large segment of the community then. Literally nothing (aside from the short quest). Riven mods are dominating the discussion and trade chat. They are the new "thing" to be acquired for completion and veterans of have done everything but collect the newest gear.... but they were meant only for people that use or prefer certain gear.

Buffing old weapons via an RNG Mod system, that is placed in the way as clutter for others is not a great solution at all.

Creating another system that does nothing but shoot top tier weapon's power through the roof and into orbit is an even worse decision. Not only does it not offer anything for the outclassed weapons, it just comes to reinforce even further the status quo.

Whether you call it cowardice, idiocity, or unorthodoxy, it is more than clear enough that DE does not favor the easy, direct approach. It is not as direct, but it does allow some more esoteric builds... In theory.

The truth is, there are valid reasons to believe DE released this in the state they did on purpose-- not doing so would make describing them without questioning their cognitive faculties downright impossible-- but it is unquestionable that taking such measure as acceptable, and seeing the busilis not as the fact this mods give unprecedented power to weapons that don't need it, but yes the fact that said power is kinda-but-not-really diluded in layers and layers of RNG.

We are coming to a point in which Dynasty Warriors games seem incredible marvels of refinement and balance compared to this. Accepting this mods is cutting the last threads.

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2 hours ago, mhn23-EGT- said:

This guy gets it.

I invested alot of Platinum into the Weapons i play most and that are meta because i find them to have my desired power and utility at the same time. Now you are saying that what i invested in was a fake and shouldnt be for sale anyway. Good Job.

I dont know how this got greenlit by whoever made this system. It was effen obvious that ppl like me are loving to min max their gear when you are able to get absurdly good stats for meta weapons? I even applied for the test cluster and were told its already full? did they ever test this? who is testing this system and who is actually putting it in real world application?

Finally someone that admits they, as a human, want to min max, to make better; and that a game that let's them do this beyond acceptable levels is a poorly designed game.

Finally someone who has the nerve to admit it.

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These mods were a terrible idea, fortunately they were implemented so badly that they will generate a lot of player hate organically.

Several devstreams have made bold claims that you understand the player frustration with rng, and several updates have called lie to these claims. 

 

You really need to rethink the almost slavish devotion to it.

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