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[DE]Rebecca

[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1!

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1 hour ago, Vilmu said:

Will trade for Grakata, Zarr or Latron one ;) Have rerolled that 3 times I think, so the reroll cost is still quite low.

Don't have any of those..  :(

I'd have to reroll it. -zoom means no good. But I have 30k kuva so I think I can manage a couple.  :)

Feel free to message me, though, if you feel like taking plat instead.  :)

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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yes, meta weapons are in the selection pool, but Riven Mods are not needed to make this gear (like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor) more powerful.

 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

 

Hold on, so does that mean Rivens for meta weapons will still exist, but just have mediocre stats?

 

Edit:

Also, will the challenge algorithm be tweaked? From what I've seen, some challenges just outright forces people to mooch off other squad members (e.g. do no damage survival)

Edited by Punchedface
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I just think Riven Disposition should be a numerical value in the UI so we know the potential of the mod. 

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Hi,

For the first time in months,  I am loving it to spend more time in-game playing because of the new Riven mods.  Was so frustrated with all the nerfs that i was only logging in for rewards and random nitain alerts, and didn't buy any plats at all coz I had lost interest in the game.  I really love the Riven mods:inlove: and starting to love the game again because of these.  I have spent a good amount of plat in trading buying good mods, so don't even think about nerfing something that has got me back into game.  There will always be haters because they don't get good mods and RNG sucks for them(for me too).  So, please don't nerf the Riven mods, if u do, then i want the amounts of plats spent on buying them reimbursed to me, or its goodbye warframe for me. 

 

Really really love the Riven mods.  Also, there is  cap on how much each player can have, so its not game breaking in anyway. Please continue doing great things such as these Riven mods.

And thanks for Zarr semi-buff, wont say its all powerful, but I love it and have Riven mods for that too.

 

Thanks a lot.:satisfied:

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4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’.

This part of the post feels like PR fluff/BS honestly. 

You don't need to test negative damage or negative multishot etc. to know that it's not a great mod that would actually be a mistake to equip AT ALL... 

You are aware that some people even have over -100% damage on their mods? Or negative multishot that makes the weapon simply not do anything half the time you fire it? Do we really need to try these rolls out?

You're trying to sell us a system that supposedly had the purpose of making bad weapons good again, but you added horrid RNG that can actually make ANY weapon far worse off by equipping the mod. Your implementation does not mesh with your stated goals at all. It also does not coincide with your past claims of wanting to reduce the grind or of some of your devs comments about mistakes you made with the mod system or with RNG in past other systems (IE: Kubrow colors). 

You're hinting that early iterations on the system may improve RNG to some extent for "bad weapons," will that also include the removal of the possibility to get horrid negative stat mods that make the roll completely unusable? Also, is there some reason you didn't do this BEFORE releasing the system? I think 90% of the negative feedback about the system was easily predictable, which is likely why you never announced the system or discussed it ahead of its release. 

We're being told a lot of things (the "right things" so to speak) and then seeing you implement things that completely go against what you've said. You're talking the talk and then leaving flaming surprise bags on our doorsteps and pretending like you only had good intentions. Are we really supposed to think this wasn't an attempt to get people to buy plat to buy the insane lottery level luck mods? Not even just a little bit? Numerous layers of RNG, most of us only have gotten one riven mod so far because we can't even defeat RNG layer 1 (sortie RNG). Meanwhile, some people more than doubled their damage on their meta weapons (which supposedly wasn't the purpose of the system AT ALL). 

4 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is why we have prevented players from choosing what weapon the Riven Mod will be for; if we didn’t, we would end up with millions of Soma Mods and none for the Gorgon.

I strongly disagree with this point. If we could choose the weapon, people would choose them for fun weapons as well. I mean, some people are choosing to get rid of their godlike Tonkor mods as soon as they get them because some people just hate it. You can only have one per weapon. If you want to make X a great weapon because you like the style, you would intentionally farm mods for that weapon. Allowing us to choose the weapon we roll them for would have made the system dramatically less awful. Let people get mods for the weapons they actually enjoy using. 

Also, if your baseline weapon balance is so dreadful that nobody would intentionally pick a mod for weapon X, perhaps you should consider just buffing the weapon. 

Edited by Borg1611
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4 hours ago, Ibro156 said:

I think the Revin mods need to have "blacklist", which certain weapons cannot use the Riven. For example, Dread, Boltor Prime, Tonkor and etc.

  Hide contents

l8UcyOh.jpg

 
 
 

These overpowered weapons by themselves are already powerful with regular mods, but giving them with more powerful mods on top of their ready existing stats, it's just insane in my opinion.

Also, I felt like allowing these new mods to be tradeable in the beginning was a bad move. People have already forked over lots of plat to get their ideal mod. Just ripping them out of their hands will just cause salt, when change happens.

Lots of salt...

 

Ok, see, I see that Soma Prime and any hope that "Riven Disposition" is a properly weighted and implemented concept is GONE...

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4 hours ago, Lumireaver said:

Please consider releasing features like this with temporary trade embargos. That way kinks can be worked out before people invest lots of real world money which is hard to rollback. 

I would have to second this. I didn't get to experience The War Within content until 3 days post launch, but everything I was reading leading up to that point left me questioning why such a restriction was not already in place from the beginning.

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For me as a melee player, the fact this only currently exists for rifles is a downer. It would be more interesting to see this for Warframes, secondaries and melees. The potential is there for this system, to be fun and interesting, but as it is now, it's way too limited to be just that; at least as far as I am concerned. If we factor in the high RNG-factor into it all - it just adds up to not being appealing for me at all, in its' current form.

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if you know gorgon is bad and soma is good, then why not just straight up buffing gorgon instead of giving us a pool of mod and hope we get the one thats for S#&$ty weapons and hope we will develop the weapons around those riven mods? you already knew which weapon is good and which weapon is bad by just looking at your data, and now you dont want to spend time balancing weapon, instead, you are willing to spend time balancing a type of mod thats complete based on rng.

also, I dont want when someone suggests me a weapon, telling me all good about this gun. then at the end, he/she tells me that I need this specific riven mod for that weapon to meet this expectation. 

Edited by SLoading
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my problem is and will remain the increasing price for re-rolls, specifically because there are rolls that are entirely useless certain weapons just can not use status or crit, and mods that reduce damage make any sub par weapon completely useless, the dera for instance already has low damage and -77% damage would just kill any and all usefulness it does have, setting the re roll at 2000 (i think that's reasonably high enough to be an inconvenience, i am however not the dev) would incentivize trying out what you have, i have re-rolled my opticore mod 5 times and its at 3400 already, this is a big snow ball from 900 and i'm very afraid that this will quickly get far out of control, this is especially disgraceful at the fact that continuous rolls do not make guarantees of getting better, you set up a complete re-roll with the mechanics of an upgrade, THIS IS NOT HOW YOU MAKE A GOOD SYSTEM...i think that's all i have to say on the subject, thank you for your time.

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’.

One does not need to undergo extensive testing to be assured that a - Recoil, + Ammo Max, - Damage mod will be a funny clan chat anecdote at best. Doubly so when it's for the Wyrm's Laser Rifle (Which, oddly enough, cannot be equipped on the Prime Laser Rifle. Go figure).

Take a leaf from games that have done RNG stat generation for years (Such as Diablo 3) and prohibit some rolls and/or combinations from occurring. Provide the players who are willing to put in some time multiple avenues with which to help tip the dice rolls in their favour.

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This is why we have prevented players from choosing what weapon the Riven Mod will be for; if we didn’t, we would end up with millions of Soma Mods and none for the Gorgon.

Shall we address the elephant in the room? The fact that some of the weapons in Warframe are so utterly atrocious (Sometimes both in stats and in handling) that you need some kind of absurdly contrived mod shoved in there to make it vaguely passable?

We've had bandaid mods to excuse actual, meaningful adjustments to game systems in the past (Body Count because the melee combo timer is ludicrous, ditto for Harkonar Scope [except almost no one really uses sniper rifles anyway], etc.), but this just takes the cake.

If your intent is to preserve a linear progression between weapon "tiers", where the earlier ones are worse and the later ones are better, then you really ought to adjust costs to reflect this.

Ultimately, if you want to make a weapon like the Gorgon viable, you should buff its stats, not introduce an entire system that just screws with players.

And besides, even if you adjust the values on Riven mods for meta weapons, as long as that mod is stronger than what you'd get from a single mod slot, it will be used, farmed for, and traded for thousands of plat. Did we really need Primed Chamber 2.0?

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The current maximum number of 15 Riven Mods is a reflection of this, as limitations encourages creativity and choice.

This arbitrary limitation will not lead to creativity. These are weapon stats, not a set of oils and a canvas. The only "choice" will largely be a binary one: is this Riven mod's stats better than this other one's? If so, delete/sell the latter. DE has created a wonderful atmosphere with Warframe, with some truly unique and intriguing art styles. That is creativity. The cap on Riven mods is a simplistic value judgment, nothing more.

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

As Developers, we want to emphasize: nothing is set in stone. Warframe is known to be always changing and adapting

I really don't want to be that gal, but we're still waiting for those Focus changes Steve claimed were "in the pipe" close to a year ago. It's doubly amusing that what seems to be a very Operator-centric system was added, but it's pretty much entirely divorced from what we've had until now.

Ultimately, whether deserved or not, DE has somewhat of a reputation among many players for rushing in a system, throwing out a few hotfixes, and then leaving it to rot. However...

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones. Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix. Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem. We wanted this system to allow players to experiment with their Arsenal in existing end-game missions.

... this sounds vaguely promising. It's a bold step by DE, and I applaud it. There will be drama, but I suppose there always is.

Edited by SilentCynic
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I have an idea for the "disposition" thing. Hopefully you guys track usage statistics for your ingame items...balancing things would be hard without it, right?

So...tie the "riven disposition" to a particular weapon's usage. Make it variable even, so that a mod's overall power doesn't depend on how many people have been using that weapon when it drops. That way, you can push updated values out with updates and hotfixes. (Yes, that means your mods' power will fluctuate with the weapon's usage statistics.)

Ideally, the least-used weapons should have the potential to be borderline (or even legitimately) overpowered, so that as people pick up on that fact, they'll be brought in line and eventually stabilize into the "usable" zone. Similarly, as the current most-used weapons fall out of favor or are made obsolete by new arrivals (please stop doing that), their respective Riven mods will increase in power to help them pick up the slack. Like a stock market for firepower.

It's not the most polished approach that could be taken, but barring a few fringe cases this should be almost completely automated, which means you don't have to constantly revise it to keep up with the current meta, because it does that by itself. A self-balancing weapon system.

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@[DE]Rebecca Maybe you guys should like make an announcement that current mods will be changed. Many players are investing in rare high teir mods for high teir weapons.

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Even though I've said my thoughts about the whole Riven Mods thing, I will still not agree with "meta weapons" to be given a boost in general, but of course I can only agree to disagree at this point. Though I am excited to see Prisma Gorgon, Karak, and other weapons that are low end get some love for veterans to enjoy in high end missions. Will be a refresher to see multiple weapons used instead of the same old weapons we see constantly.

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I really love the Riven mods, those have elevated some weak weapons i like to a better level. But if you guys want to readjust the stats, can you leave -damage and faction damage? -damage is a serious deal killer, putting any mod other than damage mod is already reducing your potential damage, i don't think we need more - damage. And limiting your weapon to a faction isn't really a good way to give more variety.

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I just have some thought on the matter. Please try to consider my opinions. Thank you.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style.

I love the premise for Riven mods to be used on older weapons to change up their play style but . . .

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We have started to add quirks to weapons, as shown with the recent Syndicate Melees, and this is supposed to be a continuation of that train of thought: we want players to be able to use their weapons in new ways that typical builds don’t encourage or allow.

I think i would've appreciated it more if riven mods were similar to what you guys did with syndicates. Straight up changing their use. I wish riven mods didn't give stats, or gave less of them from what they currently give, but give them a change similar to syndicates. For example, make a shotgun mod that reduces the pellet count to one but add an explosion to it. Or converts a rifle from a hit scan to a projectile or v.v.. Or make a bow be similar to Ivara's "4" where the bow can fire in a horizontal spread. These are just suggestions on the top of my head. After a general change to a specific weapon, THEN add the stat bonuses. And the re-rolls don't affect what the weapon does but only the stats and make them a bit more specific. Dread and Paris have a long charge time? make that stat re-roll more common. Get the idea? Don't just make the stat roll the same for all the weapons. Make some weapons have different stat pools to roll from, and not just the value. You could remove magazine capacity from the Stinger riven mod for example. Actually, remove sentinel weapons from the rifle weapons pool as well :|

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’.

I get the idea for this but at some point in time, It just becomes punishing. Add a cap to it, say 2.5k? and maybe reduce the inital cost but ramp up the reroll increment. Say start with 600 (since that's the average we get from one kuva siphon) then Increment it by 600 as well up to a maximum of 2.5k. It's either that or increase the chances for kuva siphons to appear. Or better, make a guaranteed mission for kuva. Excavations with kuvas instead of cryotics for example. That would be better.

I would also recommend to ease up the challenges as some of them are just impossible to deal with. Some players just aren't skilled enough to complete them (i can't headshot while aimgliding 5x cause i suck at aiming at the head and i don't use tonkor/grenade launchers O.O) or give us some way to complete the challenge at a cost. Say, 4k kuva?

Another recommendation is to increase or guarantee us a chance at obtaining riven mods. There is too much RNG involved and Sortie's can just f*** you over (I've been having lenses and 2k endo for the last 2 weeks. FML). A recommendation i would give is give us a weekly quest with riven mods as a reward. Make it something like the Orokin Maw pit in TWW. It's not that hard but it is challenging and rewarding.

Edited by Cepheus-EN-
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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’.

Fist of all let me show you my mod I have got:
QxYcjqo.jpg

The positives and the negative is equal in raw dmg and I get 0.1% status chance which is 0.2% if I add a High Voltage (+15% status unranked) not to mention the added electic dmg.

So in my opinion there should be a stat locking method where rerolling a mod with full new stats should always cost 500-1000 kuva.
Rerolling 1 stat locked should cost 2.500-10.000 kuva.
Rerolling 2 stats locked should cost 12.500-100.000 kuva.
More than that is not allowed. Also rerolling 2 stats lock can result only that 2 stats remaining.
Each roll in the same area costs more like (changing it will reset cost to basic and it has maximum cost):
-Full reroll: 500
-Full reroll: 600
-1 stat: 2.500
-2 stat: 12.500
-2 stat: 15.000
-Full reroll: 500

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We wanted this system to allow players to experiment with their Arsenal in existing end-game missions.

As you can see I already formad the sentinel weapon 5 times to get something out of it but even if I spend 900 kuva then more and more can result me spend lot of my time doing basically nothing. Why should I even bother for a weapon if I am not going to use it anyway if the cost is to high?

The system has to change somehow its either not suppose to be a harder grind every time you reroll stats or make stats rerollable like one by one.

 

Edit:
Also not allowing us to have more then 15 Riven mods if we have 68 primary weapons it's kind of bad. (I am not against paying resources or plat to have more slots it's just doesn't make any sence limiting it)
Also what happens if I have 15 Riven mods and Sortie rewards me a Riven mod?

Edited by PETI258
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My personal experience with Riven Mods has been a refreshing one. About a week before TWW, I leveled and subsequently tossed a Hind, which of course ended up being my rewarded Riven Mod. At first, I was sad since I had held out hopes for something in my arsenal that I had kept and invested in already, but after getting the stats, I started building a new Hind to try it out. It rolled with +dmg, and +slash dmg, while -multishot. My first impression was that it was trash, but the next day I checked the maxed out stats and my mind was changed.

In this respect, the system got me to try a non-meta weapon I had previously leveled, which is great. However, the re-rolling is where I am hesitant. I'd suggest one of two things; make Riven Mods more consistently obtainable (this lets unwanted mods fall by the wayside with little angst in the pursuit of the better ones, also means we can re-roll a mod x times until the kuva cost outweighs finding a new mod for the same weapon, making it a steady grind for end-gamers while not wholly off-putting when we don't get our desired outcome) or, add the option when re-rolling to overwrite our mod, or keep the previous stats while still expending the kuva and knocking us up to the next tier. This option lets progressively better mods or subsequently lateral changes be made without the risk of downgrading, meaning we can work on one mod for much longer without the need to replace it for a cheaper, fresh one of the same weapon designation. In this respect, leaving the mods as tougher to find will mean more work and value goes into them, so a smaller pool is fine.

I don't see how a weekly Teshin quest for a Riven mod will pan out long-term, since I'm hoping this system branches out to warframes, secondaries, melees, and maybe even sentinels/companions themselves. The end result would be receiving a random mod from the whole pool, much like we get whatever sculpture is on the pedestal. We could trade for them, but this would mean more salty sailors when people go 3-4 weeks of getting the undesirables. Personally, I'd like SOME control over what I'm after, such as putting Rifle Riven Mods as a small chance out of the third cache in the Fortress (But let the record show, I meant better than Xiphos parts /sigh). If each category were target-able in this way, I think people would be more apt to focus their time and energy on the potential for an overall beneficial experience.

At the end of the day, I am very excited to see where this system goes and what it does for end-game variety.

   

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones. Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix. Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem. We wanted this system to allow players to experiment with their Arsenal in existing end-game missions. It's not our intention to add content where these Mods will be necessary - it brings new ways of experiencing the existing game.

 

This is going to be increasingly complex. How is DE going to balance Riven mods for weapons like Cernos? In an attempt to nerf Riven mod for Rakta Cernos and (upcoming) Cernos Prime, the other versions like Cernos and Mutalist Cernos will be screwed even further.

What if some new mod buffs an out of meta into the meta? What if that weapon has a version (like Mutalist  or whatever) which doesn't benefit from the new mod? Will they nerf the Riven mod for that weapon?

I honestly think that balancing the game around Riven mods is not a good idea.

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So you're keeping the randomized numbers? Sheesh.
Can we expect weapon durability & breaking this year or is it the next then?

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In my eyes, it's a flawed take on an interesting system found in many other games - of course it will take some tweaking. It's 5am for me right now, so I'll just bullet some key points:

  • MR requirement should be base, the mods growing in strength as the owner's MR increases. This will take out part of the randomness and almost unfairness of the system (a MR20 player receiving a MR12 locked mod, which will be weaker than what they can use, for no good reason).
  • Cap the reroll cost. I'm a theorycrafter who loves fun weapons more than anyone, but +zoom/-damage isn't useful for anyone. At the end of the day, +damage/crits/multi-shot/punch through/elementals and -zoom (or magazine for vectis) are going to be king. I want the game to be more than damage/crit on meta weapons, but we need an entire combat overhaul before this can happen, not RNG on mods.
  • Remove the RNG upon RNG upon RNG. We have to roll for the drop in the first place, weapon, MR requirement (see first bullet point) and stats. This is insane! In another game, I've been killing a boss at least twice a day for three years in hopes of receiving a particular item, with absolutely nothing to show for it - on average, people get this within a couple of months. RNG hates some people and the feeling is mutual. Yes, reducing this makes it easier for that "perfect" roll, but people only want things close to perfect in this system. Nobody enjoys working hard for a +zoom/+ammo/+infested/-damage mod for the glaxion. Is this an extreme example? Yes, but it's just as likely as any other outcome. End game players have the time and resources to keep rolling, they will aim for perfection.

I don't want a game where everyone has +damage/+multi-shot/+crit/-zoom for their tonkors, simulors and somas - but that's what this system has offered us. Some players, through sheer dumb luck, will have insanely powerful weapons at their disposal and others will be annoyed that their hard work yields nothing. Riven mods are trying to be the gear progression from some RPGs that people love, but what we have now is another part of the cannibalised focus system, reincarnated in mod form by cultists worshipping the evil RNG. Things like riven mods, focus, augments, buffed stats from prime weapons all should've been one system, allowing players to improve and customise their gear. As they are, they're fiddly systems which don't mix well and lead to a mismatched mashup of powercreep slapped onto our stuff. Please DE, please do the proper rework that this game needs - balance weapons, frames, mods, enemy scaling and miscellaneous systems. This is coming from someone who can afford to just buy these perfect mods and continue to faceroll until the difficulty curve hits a brick wall.

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5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Finished The War Within? If so, then you've received your first of a new class of Mod: Riven Mods!


Riven by nature stands for 'to split or tear apart violently' - which is an accurate summation of everyone's reactions to them! Cephalon Samodeus invites you to learn more about them and Mods in general here. For those of you who don’t know the specifics, Riven Mods have randomly generated stats (including MR requirement and polarities) for one randomly-selected weapon that are revealed once you complete a specific challenge.


Firstly, we should all understand our goal and why this goal existed in the first place:

We want to give players something unique to them that can speak to their wider Arsenal. We want to give new life to the Arsenal in a non-static way.

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style. We’re all familiar with blazing through missions to the Extraction Point, but this system gives players new challenges that require them to test the creative limits of their Arsenal in their quest to Unveil their new Mods. Yes, meta weapons are in the selection pool, but Riven Mods are not needed to make this gear (like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor) more powerful. What they can do is add an interesting buff to a comparatively underpowered weapon in order to encourage players to think outside of that meta box.

 

The problem is that, say, a Tonkor is at a power level of 100. Let's say the Tetra is at a power level of, say, 10. A Riven mod that triples the power of the Tetra still just makes it go to 30. A Riven mod the only doubles the power of the Tonkor makes it completely broken. The problem is even with the powerful Riven mod, the Tetra is still pretty bad. It's even worse when players realize they can just pick up a Soma or Soma Prime and do better even without a Riven mod on them.

Overall the system doesn't help encourage weaker weapons to be used much, because the weaker weapons don't get enough power or some sort of utility to make picking them viable, and more importantly the stronger weapons also get the same powerful mods.

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


This is why we have prevented players from choosing what weapon the Riven Mod will be for; if we didn’t, we would end up with millions of Soma Mods and none for the Gorgon. The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

I do not think having no control of the mods works though. Some weapons are frankly better then others (Soma Prime to most other rifles for example, Tonkor to every other explosive weapon), and the degree to how much greater they are means a Riven mod would need to roll perfectly on 3+ stats to even attempt to compete with a no riven power house. The cycling costs do not help much, as weapon builds have been generally solved. Every weapon except the simulor likes multishot, every weapon wants damage. A Riven mod with amazing status doesn't help if a weapon has weak status, a Riven mod with more ammo doesn't help unless a user is making a entirely for fun attack speed build. There is only a few "good" outcomes of a Riven mod, and the only use for them is rerolling to get those so the Riven mod does not have 1 worse then normal mod + 2 irrelevant mods.

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


We have started to add quirks to weapons, as shown with the recent Syndicate Melees, and this is supposed to be a continuation of that train of thought: we want players to be able to use their weapons in new ways that typical builds don’t encourage or allow. The current maximum number of 15 Riven Mods is a reflection of this, as limitations encourages creativity and choice.

But limitation when some Riven mods are for weapons so bad a user has no reason to use them even with the best roll does not help. If I can only hold 15 mods, and 5 of them are for, say, the Gorgon, I'd rather sell them or just throw them away to try and get an actually good mod, not repeatedly reroll them in the hopes of making the Gorgon closer to, but still worse then, the Soma.

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


Secondly, this system will be slow to roll out and include iteration.

Perhaps you've noticed only Rifle Mods exist in the Riven tier at this time - this is no accident.

We want to hear what our community thinks, which is the reason why we only implemented these for Rifles. Perhaps there are tweaks to this system that can make these Mods more unique and interesting beyond randomized stats so that our intentions are clearer. This mechanic is something that hasn’t existed in Warframe before, and we want to be careful in making sure it doesn’t undermine our ultimate goals for the game.

I think adding some control over the mods and having some "special" affixs show up would be better. For instance, a rifle mod could have an affix that non critical strikes increase crit chance by a flat 10% until a crit, or that bullets/arrows that passed through an enemy have a blast proc with X damage, or other such 'special' effects that provide something other then the same stats as normal but RNG.

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


We took a risk (Warframe wouldn't be here without risks), and the insight our fans offer us is so incredibly valuable as we work to make Riven Mods, and Warframe, better. As Developers, we want to emphasize: nothing is set in stone. Warframe is known to be always changing and adapting. Remember that groups work best together when respect is shown, so while we can and do look past a lot of vitriol to find what you think, it's better that you express your thought without it.


Lastly, what is the immediate iteration you can expect?

In the past 3 or so days since The War Within has been released, our community brought up some very pertinent points concerning this system. The first is trading, and the lack of UI indication of how many times a Mod has been Cycled and the Weapon it is for, which will soon be added to both Veiled (after the initial Unveiling) and Unveiled Mods. For example, a Cycled Lanka mod will appear as Lanka Riven Mod until it is unveiled again.

Your commentary about meta weapons has been taken to heart as well, and we will be tweaking the algorithm to account for 'Riven Disposition'.

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

I think this will help a bit, but it seems to me like this is making it so the Tetra will get that 3x mod more often and the Tonkor will get mostly a 1.5x mod. But that still leaves the Tonkor at a massively higher power level and getting more overall power (the Tonkor being increased by 50% is a significantly higher amount of damage then the Tetra being increased by 500%). I do not think this alone will help make Rivens for weak weapons make them played. It might help mid tier weapons be competitive (after all, the Braton or Stradavar might become close enough to be nice with a good riven)

5 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:



This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones. Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix. Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem. We wanted this system to allow players to experiment with their Arsenal in existing end-game missions. It's not our intention to add content where these Mods will be necessary - it brings new ways of experiencing the existing game.

These are just some immediate changes we will be making, but we will be taking the rest of your feedback into consideration as we further develop this system.


Thank you for taking the time to read this post. The Riven system will go and change, and for those who choose to use it, this is a post that covers what you can expect!

 

Thank you for the post.

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Requesting Kuva reset cap to 3k at most. Or whatever you devs choose. Since Kuva reset at Trade is sure to be exploited. And put how many times the Riven mod has been resetted/show Kuva reset cost on trade. This, I think, will be fool-proof.

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