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[DE]Rebecca

[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1!

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Not a single word on reducing the randomness or the exponential growth of reroll costs. I don't like where this game is going.

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Would be interesting to know what DE plans for the "useless" mods...like Physical damage on a purely elemental mod.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your commentary about meta weapons has been taken to heart as well, and we will be tweaking the algorithm to account for 'Riven Disposition'.

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

wouldnt it make sense to rework that mastery rank then? i mean...we still have totally garbage weapons locked behind a high mastery. i have never seen a flux rifle being used, yet it needs mastery rank 6 to unlock, the same that Opticor and Soma Prime need. So its mastery rank reduces the effectivenes of its potentially good mod then.

What about weapons like Cernos, which is a rank 0 weapon that has a rank 12 syndicate version?

So i think including mastery rank in that list is a bad choice. the best thing you can do is to manually set a value to them based on how much the community uses them
 

also what about additional reroll options?

- Reroll Stat values only. The types stay the same, no new unlock needed
- Reroll Stat types. Thats what we have now
- Reroll everything. Including the Weapon it is for

also remove the exponentially growing cost please...
 

Edited by LazerusKI
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6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

respectful snipP

You make some good points, but please take a look at riven mods having nonsensical attributes towards some weapons such as my very own for the quanta, which gives me bonus flight speed on a beam weapon.

There are many such other cases, where a weapon with 2.5% status gets status bonus which is useless even if it is 120%, etc. 

Please allow more control in the RNG, and the bonuses to play into the weapons's existing stat pool strengths and mechanics. Please also consider attributes such as -100% crit chance on crit weapons, or weapons that already struggle to be crit viable.

Please soften the kuva costs for rerolling somewhat. As it stands now, it's RNG to get the mod, RNG to get stats, RNG to spawn kuva siphon, rng to roll.

It's not fun and instead feels punishing and frustrating to have so many layers of RNG in the system. Why is more reward being put on luck rather than effort in a system that's supposed to be, as i understand it, endgame?

I understand you wanting to stop people rolling and rolling until they get perfect stats, but at least if the system is going to give bonker stats allow us to refund kuva and recycle the mod somewhat, especially with the limited capacity.

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#Rivengate

 

Good to see you guys reacting to the meta issues. But you should really look at toning down the RNG factor too. We don't get to choose what weapon the Riven is for, what the stats are or if there are negative ones or the polarity (though that is a minor issue).

 

Being able to choose what the stats of the mod are by investing Kuva into the mod would be a good start. It can be a dynamic mod card that the player can invest into to work their way through a tree of sorts to tailor the mod to their playstyle for that weapon (without ridiculous things like muh Crit-Chance-Crit-Damage-Damage Tonkor).

 

I much prefer an investment as opposed to finger crossing I get something for a weapon I use/like and then finger crossing again that the stats aren't something stupid like increased zoom or negative damage. The investment idea would also let players pick benefits that fit the weapons themselves. What use is +crit chance on a weapon with 5% crit chance?

 

This is not a gambling game. Don't turn this into the CS:GO debacle.

Edited by Mr._Clean
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1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

You make some good points, but please take a look at riven mods having nonsensical attributes towards some weapons such as my very own for the quanta, which gives me bonus flight speed on a beam weapon.

There are many such other cases, where a weapon with 2.5% status gets status bonus which is useless even if it is 120%, etc. 

Please allow more control in the RNG, and the bonuses to play into the weapons's existing stat pool strengths and mechanics. Please also consider attributes such as -100% crit chance on crit weapons, or weapons that already struggle to be crit viable.

Please soften the kuva costs for rerolling somewhat. As it stands now, it's RNG to get the mod, RNG to get stats, RNG to spawn kuva siphon, rng to roll.

It's not fun and instead feels punishing and frustrating to have so many layers of RNG in the system. Why is more reward being put on luck rather than effort in a system that's supposed to be, as i understand it, endgame?

I understand you wanting to stop people rolling and rolling until they get perfect stats, but at least if the system is going to give bonker stats allow us to refund kuva and recycle the mod somewhat, especially with the limited capacity.

Actually flight speed affects the distance of the cubes.

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Infinitely increasing re-roll prices are fun, fun, FUN, FUN!

 

Especially with how WONDERFUL the Kuva farming is! 

 

Just saying. :3

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I think that Riven mods can work but that the RNG on what they can roll needs to be removed. Just make it so that every weapon has 5-10 possible Affixes that are set, you can even make it so the more OP ones have a smaller chance if you want it to be more "fair". Then DE can balance each mod Affix for that weapon, I.E no physical damage mods of Elemental weapons or crit for no crit weapons. 

You can then balance the older out of meta weapons to have a higher Stat amount per mod and even unique effects that make them interesting to play. By doing this you can buff and nerf the outliers on a mod by mod case. If you want say the Flux rifle to be used more you could have it so that all of its mods are 50% stronger than the Tonkor or Soma versions and maybe even have it so that all Flux Riven mods do something in addition to the normal +crit or what have you such as increase damage and range the longer it fires. A little more work at the outset for DE but long term it would lower the difficulty of balancing and probably help with a lot of the community outcry.

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Just putting this here, didn't see that there was a thread about this one. So i posted in fan concepts but no one was there.

I'm going to write this idea by step so it can be easier to understand. Here goes.

- We get a blank "??? Riven Mod" from sortie. ??? = Weapon Typ(Rifle, Shotgun etcc.)

- We equip blank Riven Mod to weapon of choice. It binds it to the weapon for good. You cannot remove it but you can move it.

    -Blank Riven Mods have 0 capacity cost until given stats later on.

    -Under actions button in the mod screen. We get a new option "Riven Fusion".

    -Riven Fusion option allows us to give the preferred stats to the blank riven mod.

         -When you open Riven Fusion screen, you are presented with 3 empty slots by which where you will put your normal mods in. Minimum of 2 mods.

              -You cannot use rank 0 mods. Must be maxed. Fusion requires Kuva as payment. Mods are consumed in the process.

              -Primed mods cannot be used in Riven Fusion.

              -Empty slots are divided by Primary, Secondary and Tertiary.

                  -If mod is placed in Primary, mod stat gets 20% reduction.

                  -If mod is placed in Secondary, mod stat gets 40% reduction.

                  -If mod is placed in Tetriary, mod gets 60% reduction.

              -After fusion e.g. Serration(165%) + Point Strike(150%) + Vital sense(120%).

                  -Will have 130% DMG + 90% CritC + 50% Crit DMG.

              -Dual Stat Riven Mods Have 18 Drain maxed while Tri Stat Riven Mods consume 24.

              -Newly fused riven mod starts at rank 0. Consumes just as much endo when fusing as Primed mods.

              -Has a maxed rank of 10.

    -Unveiling no longer required but IMO blank riven mods should be rarer.

That's all. What do you guys think?

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6 hours ago, Jakkyr said:

i'm questioning how people manage to read this fast

I can, and have, gone through a 4,000 page unabridged (ie: tiny print) trilogy (encased in a single thick book, I may add) in under a month. Forum topics and responses are small fry next to that.

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa

This is a bad idea. Don't do this.

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The reason for re-rolling cost increasing discourages re-rolling a "underused" weapon riven mod, since it will cost so much more to get a "good" roll. (A good roll is usable stats, i got 3 rolls with unusable positive stats and a REALLY high negative one for the panthera)

 

make the cost increase be affected by how "meta" the weapon is?

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First, let me say that i'm ok with those mods(good endo/credits sink) and the random stats part in general, i was not ok the way you introduced them (trade mayhem, balance out the window) . After reading this I still have questions.

Why the new resource? The increased reroll cost could have been one way to deal with our existing resources. Most of them have been useless for quite sometime now and it's about time you give them some endgame sink. This is the problem every time you create a new resource, you negate the time invested in the game. 

Well i know why the new resource, cause it's tied to the second question, why are you forcing us to play the operator to have the new resource. This is so un intuitive that the game literally have to tell you what to do.(press 5 blablabla). Archwing have been kept from being merged too much, but operator stuff is already tied to your biggest endgame content sink? I play for the warframe, not the operator.

It's ok to make the mods rare, with random stats, even the veiled mechanic. But adding a new resource to grind with the operator really bother me.

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So to encourage players to use mods for less used weapons, the reroll cost increases every time, but through rerolling I personally got amazing stats like higher fire rate or zoom for the Penta, which is not even a benefit for them, just a waste of a mod space/kuva, and on the last iteration more crit damage for a weapon, that has a 10% crit chance. So far I am not impressed by the system, for me it discourages me from using these mods.

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

This does not work. Not until you go back and actually reclass weapons with a proper tier (Mastery Rank) structure. You have so much prior ground work to do before you try this system.

The examples that come immediately to mind are the Bratons, all of them. Every last Braton has a Mastery Rank of 0 (to craft, also as hidden stat).

In terms of stats playing an impact, not all stats are created equal. Especially not all damage types, rates of fire, and damage per second calculations. A top example is the Synoid Simulor. If you calculate its raw DPS you will actually miss a large chunk of its damage value because it is a Radius Damage weapon, and will hit multiple targets at once. Having to track that adds to the complexity of any "Stat assessment" algorithm. Which doesn't include some of the non-damage extras that have been making their way on to various weapons. With the way the Rivens launch, ya'll have not convinced me you've done that leg work in setting a robust algorithm. 

If you did that reclassification, and had a fair algorithm for assessing a weapon's place in the Horde Shooter Meta, you'd have a better starting point. You could, with that information, then use the "Tier" rank of the weapon as Inverse Scalar. But not for the RNG stat generation! Instead it is a scalar on the Stats when it is placed on a weapon in that family group.

Going back to the Bratons. Take an example "Braton Riven Mod". When this mod is place on the Braton Prime, its stats will be lower due to its higher tier. The Braton MK-1 would have the highest stats on the due to its lower tier.

This way the Riven mods can be adaptive to newly released content, either of the same family or just a higher Tier. The lower the Tier of weapon, the better the Riven Mod stats should be when equipped to that lower tier weapon.

If a weapon is Buffed or Nerfed, enough for its Tier (Mastery) to change, the Riven Mods for that weapon are now relatively scaled to match.

Edited by Brasten

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

I have currently rerolled the one Riven mod that I have twice. It wasn't to try to get a "perfect roll" or whatever, they were for the Zarr I had building at the time, it was because I can very easily tell what's going to happen when I toss on a +Puncture/+Toxin or a +Slash/-Recoil mod onto a weapon that doesn't have either of the physical damage types I rolled and where recoil doesn't seem like it'll matter. At best, a higher cost version of mods I already have, at worst, @(*()$ nothing.

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The current maximum number of 15 Riven Mods is a reflection of this, as limitations encourages creativity and choice.

I literally cannot see how limiting the number of Riven mods you can have at once will encourage creativity. In fact, if the cap doesn't go up at any point, I'm pretty sure the limited number of Riven mods you can carry is just going to encourage people to stick with a few weapons they like rather than branching out. We already have rifles, so it looks like we're going to get shotguns, pistols, and melee Riven mods later. Just 3 of each means you now have 12/15 slots filled, and while someone might find a new mod they like later, they're going to have to sell or junk some of them eventually. Which means at best, people will have a small stock of Riven powered weapons they rotate through, and at worst, they'll have the same sized stock than will be entirely static. Neither of which will open any more options that a large arsenal of Riven powered weapons. But I don't even know why I'm typing this out, you probably aren't going to read it and the people who would make any decisions about the game probably aren't going to listen.

Edited by Konork
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[My apologies. I only noticed this Dev Workshop after I had posted my own thread on the subject. I will transcribe a slightly edited version here.]

Hello, everyone!

Below I have provided my views on the addition of our latest mod type, the Riven Mods.

What Went Right

First, I want to discuss what I believe the Riven Mods did right. In particular, these three attributes are most notable: meaningful unveiling quests, the potential for the MR requirement, and the increase in build diversity. It is worth noting that all three of these benefits predominately affect late-game players (and in this regard, I say "Well Done, DE!"). Late-game still has a great deal of issues to overcome, but I believe that Riven Mods can help assuage the concerns felt by the community regarding late-game content, especially by veterans feeling disenfranchised and forgotten.

Unveiling Challenges Reward Empowering Gameplay

The missions required in order to unveil the Riven Mods empower players by providing a niche for specialized builds (such as an Ivara with Covert Lethality) which encourage refinement, communication, and collaboration on these builds, in turn expanding the limits of what the player can accomplish. I believe that this niche provides a unique crucible in which players can refine optimal builds for particular tasks, and look forward to more content produced with this design philosophy in mind in the future. These challenges have been criticized for their variation in difficulty and how they introduce additional barrier-to-entry to new players, but I believe both of these costs are more than worth the benefit gained.

With respect to the concerns about the variety of mission difficulties, I think that many people understate the degree to which skill, experience, and proper builds can affect the ease with which these tasks are completed. If I rely on traps in order to perform synthesis target scans, for example, then I would find the synthesis challenge more difficult than some other players. I have yet to see any challenges that cannot be completed with a proper build and a bit of patience by a low-to-moderately skilled player. In addition, as of 19.0.3 several of these concerns have been addressed directly. To the allegations of barrier-to-entry, I would point out that Riven Mods are explicitly designed to be late-game content; just as DE does not design Raids to be accessable to new players, nor is it reasonable to expect Riven Mods to accommodate experienced veterans and blooming neophytes alike.

MR Requirements (Can) Reward Player Progression

The MR requirement for Riven Mods accomplishes two tasks at once: first, it establishes that these mods are late-game content, indicating to newer players that they should aspire to acquiring and including these mods at a later date after they have experienced more of the content that Warframe has to offer; second, it provides a gratification for players that can meet these mastery rank requirements that legitimizes their efforts and investment in the game.

Most notably, though, is the impact this has on those that are *just under* the mastery rank requirement for a particular Riven Mod. I believe that these mods substantiate and encourage the investment that players around MR 15-20 have put into the game right around the time they begin to encounter severe diminishing returns. At this rank, the extra 1000 daily standing or one (or two with potatoes) starting mod capacity loses a great deal of its significance and most if not all weapons have become available. Thus, Riven Mods encourage players that have already invested this far in the game to continue playing by rewarding them for the progress that they have made and providing incentive for them to progress.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Firstly, we should all understand our goal and why this goal existed in the first place:

We want to give players something unique to them that can speak to their wider Arsenal. We want to give new life to the Arsenal in a non-static way.

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style. We’re all familiar with blazing through missions to the Extraction Point, but this system gives players new challenges that require them to test the creative limits of their Arsenal in their quest to Unveil their new Mods. Yes, meta weapons are in the selection pool, but Riven Mods are not needed to make this gear (like the Tonkor or Synoid Simulor) more powerful. What they can do is add an interesting buff to a comparatively underpowered weapon in order to encourage players to think outside of that meta box.

This is why we have prevented players from choosing what weapon the Riven Mod will be for; if we didn’t, we would end up with millions of Soma Mods and none for the Gorgon. The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

Raising the Ceiling for All Weapons Increases Build Diversity

There have been many vocal concerns raised about how part of the community feels that it is inappropriate for "good" weapons such as the Tonkor, Soma Prime, or Synoid Simulor to receive these benefits along side less powerful weapons. I vehemently disagree. Making all weapons more powerful increases the amount of options and interactions that can occur in mid-to-high level content. Sorties in particular benefit greatly from the combination of new weapons and the mission restrictions imposed, allowing for new and interesting builds to surmount or subvert difficult challenges.

While these Riven Mods allow for strong weapons to become even stronger, these weapons were already excelling at level-100 Sortie missions. Even endurance runs tend to rely less on the damage of weapons and more on the utility (such as Akstilleto Prime to deal with nullifiers, or Covert Lethality daggers that kill regardless of damage or health amount) when reaching the threshold of available high-level content. The only real issue I can see with allowing these weapons to become stronger is the impact that it may have on future late-game content; I will address this issue in another section down below.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your commentary about meta weapons has been taken to heart as well, and we will be tweaking the algorithm to account for 'Riven Disposition'.

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones.

This makes me nervous, personally. What happens when an older, "discarded" weapon becomes more popular? Will it's Riven Mods get worse after it surpasses some threshold on the bell curve? In principle, I support it. In practice, I am concerned how viable this system will be. At the very least, I have faith that if it doesn't work out you will find an amicable solution to best serve the community.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Secondly, this system will be slow to roll out and include iteration.

Perhaps you've noticed only Rifle Mods exist in the Riven tier at this time - this is no accident.

We want to hear what our community thinks, which is the reason why we only implemented these for Rifles. Perhaps there are tweaks to this system that can make these Mods more unique and interesting beyond randomized stats so that our intentions are clearer. This mechanic is something that hasn’t existed in Warframe before, and we want to be careful in making sure it doesn’t undermine our ultimate goals for the game.

We took a risk (Warframe wouldn't be here without risks), and the insight our fans offer us is so incredibly valuable as we work to make Riven Mods, and Warframe, better. As Developers, we want to emphasize: nothing is set in stone. Warframe is known to be always changing and adapting. Remember that groups work best together when respect is shown, so while we can and do look past a lot of vitriol to find what you think, it's better that you express your thought without it.

What Went Wrong

The "elephant in the room", of course, is the RNG variation that these mods introduce into an otherwise relatively-stable build environment. If we describe certain attributes and gameplay within Warframe in terms of the genres from which they originate (such as the clans and raids fostering a collaborative community akin to an MMO or the implicit roles and classes within squads that resemble MOBA teams) then this change seems to borrow from the aRPG style of build progression and customization. I don't believe that this is an inherently bad thing, but it's important for us to understand this change within the context of aRPG game design.

aRPG's rely upon a very constrained statistical buff or debuff for any particular item in order to facilitate the variation inherent within that genre. Scott and Steve have discussed on previous devstreams how one of the things that they would do differently if they could go back and change the design of Warframe would be to reduce the amount of benefit that an individual mod provides on a pure mathematical level. Anecdotally speaking, it is much easier to accommodate the fringe cases for variation when the buffs you provide are 3% instead of 187%. It is important to consider, then, how the issues with random variation in any game become exacerbated in the context of a game like Warframe where these values, and the results of compounding them together, are heavily increased.

This section will focus on discussing how the variation described above can be mediated as well as addressing the poor communication that the players have suffered thus far and how Riven Mods may negatively impact the design of late-game content in the future.

Taming the RNG Beast

I believe it would be a grievous mistake to leave Riven Mods as they exist presently in the game. To allow the number of benefits, the number of detractions, the types of benefits and detractions, the values of the benefits and detractions, the maximum rank, the polarity, the MR requirement, and the weapon to which the mod is bound to *all* vary randomly is too much. It is simply too much. After a certain point, this amount of variation impedes rather than enhances the identity of each mod as unique and interesting. In the list below, I have collected recommendations that I hope DE will consider when implementing the next iteration of Riven Mods.

  • The MR requirement and maximum rank both vary with little correlation to the value of the Riven Mods (in terms of damage or utility). While I would strongly recommend for any standardization of both of these attributes, I offer one solution in particular: scale the MR requirement by two or three with each rank of the mod. This would allow someone who is below a particular MR threshold to still be able to use a lower-rank version of the mod and further encourage that player to progress to unlock its full potential (see the above section on the benefits of MR requirements).
     
  • In addition to the above point, please standardize the maximum rank of the Riven Mods. I maintain the unwavering position that both Auras and Riven Mods should have consistent maximum ranks. To do otherwise unnecessarily inhibits the potential for build permutations and in the case of Riven Mods, prevents the identity of a particular attribute combination from being fully actualized in a manner that overcomes the opportunity cost of traditional, pre-existing mods.
     
  • Re-rolling is currently exceptionally heavy-handed and punishing. Having a geometrically compounding kuva cost with no upper limit potentially punishes players for investing in Riven Mods for weapons that they would like to use in a wider variety of situations. Thus, establishing an upper limit on the cost for re-rolling (for example, 5000) would prevent the feeling of gambling on potential lost investment when the kuva cost becomes too great to reasonably surmount.
     
  • Re-rolling can also benefit from greater granularity. If there were options to re-roll a particular attribute for less kuva, or all attributes *and* the weapon to which the mod is bound for more kuva, I believe these alternatives would help lessen the frustration that players feel with this new system. Both Destiny and Tom Clancy's The Division serve as relevant precedence in this regard that demonstrates the community benefit afforded by greater granularization of customization.
     
  • It is possible for "beneficial" attributes to provide no bonuses to a particular weapon. As a glaring example, gaining additional flight speed for a hit-scan weapon provides no real buff whatsoever. If these Riven Mods are balanced around the benefits outweighing all costs and detractions, these cases should be eliminated to prevent unbalanced combinations of stats from occurring.
     
  • Given the amount of variation currently present in the Riven Mods, I find it hard to justify the necessity for the value of the benefit to fluctuate along with everything else. If I have a mod that gives damage, toxin, and status chance, while having decreased ammo capacity, that feels like a complete and cohesive mod identity. I fear that allowing the value of these attributes to change does little more than provide hidden, intangible power to certain mods that is not granted to others, while failing to allow for any meaningful decisions on the part of the player with respect to this variation; if someone is going to re-roll a mod in the current setting, they're going to do it because they don't like the attributes it has, not because the values are not as high as they would like. Please reevaluate the extent to which this variation provides value to the Riven Mods.
     
  • It is currently possible to have a Riven Mod that gives damage, critical damage, and critical chance... on a crit-based weapon. It is also currently possible to have a Riven Mod with two (potentially useless) benefits and a glaring detraction on a nearly-universally desired attribute such as multishot. I do not see how this variation contributes to the identity, value, or niche of Riven Mods and would strongly recommend one of two alternatives: the first would be to standardize the number of benefits and detractions for each Riven Mod (e.g. all Riven Mods will have 3 benefits and 1 detraction); the second would be to assign relative values to each attribute to attempt to balance very strong benefits with equally meaningful detractions while avoiding overwhelming modest benefits with debilitating detractions.
     
  • Sentinel weapons are currently included in the Riven Mod drop table. While I consider this to be a lower priority issue, I still believe that the consistency of the scope of the Riven Mods should be resolved. If the sentinel weapons are to be included, then shotguns, secondaries, and melee weapons should also be included if for no other reason than design consistency and functional orthogonality. If the scope of the Riven Mods is intended to be refined to primaries or even rifles, then sentinel weapons should be excluded from the drop table in the future.

My Kingdom for an Explanation

Many of the issues that I have with how Riven Mods were integrated into the game stem from DE's failure to effectively communication pertinent information to the players. There is currently no clear, in-game explanation (or reminder) for the fact that you need to have the Riven Mod equipped in order to complete the challenge to unveil the mod. Nor is it communicated outside of the "Mods" UI that Riven Mods can be re-rolled. Though perhaps more grievously, it is not possible to tell how many times a mod has been re-rolled yet. Apart from being inconvenient, this facilitates scams regarding re-rolling a mod and passing it off as having never been unveiled. Finally, a storage capacity of 15 has been established (seemingly arbitrarily) for Riven Mods, but it has not been explained whether that capacity can be increased and if it can, how to do so.

All of these lapses that I have listed can probably be supplemented by the wiki, the forums, and other third-party sources of information. But they shouldn't have to be. DE should be clearly communicating this information to the players as soon as new features like the Riven Mods are implemented, and failing to do so bleeds far beyond a simple inconvenience to negligence that facilitates dishonest trading and breeds frustration from players who don't understand why their mod has yet to unveil. I know that DE can do better, and I expect that they will do their best to improve in the future.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

In the past 3 or so days since The War Within has been released, our community brought up some very pertinent points concerning this system. The first is trading, and the lack of UI indication of how many times a Mod has been Cycled and the Weapon it is for, which will soon be added to both Veiled (after the initial Unveiling) and Unveiled Mods. For example, a Cycled Lanka mod will appear as Lanka Riven Mod until it is unveiled again.

This is wonderful news, but it does not address the issues with communication I discussed above. I hope that DE will prioritize more resources into providing this kind of information before hand to protect the interests of the players that are trusting that the information they are provided is genuine. In the case of these "Rifle Veiled Mods", this is an outright shortcoming.

Into This Brave, New World

The greatest issue I have with respect to game design is how these Riven Mods may affect the scope of late-game content in the future. If new late-game content is being made with the assumption that Riven Mods are readily accessible for powerful, meta weapons, then it is entirely possible that a large section of the community will be left unable to effectively complete and engage with that content. This, I believe, is the greatest risk incurred by these mods. However, there are additional concerns as well. As several other people have pointed out, if and when DE decides to transition into "Damage 3.0" the grandfathering of all the damage-inherent Riven mods is going to make things more complicated than they were previously. I would urge DE to strongly consider omitting Riven Mods from the equation when assessing the scope of content in the future (and the present issues with late-game scaling). Only time will tell if this will become an issue.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem. We wanted this system to allow players to experiment with their Arsenal in existing end-game missions. It's not our intention to add content where these Mods will be necessary - it brings new ways of experiencing the existing game.

This is reassuring, but as some have mentioned before me, it does feel like PR. DE's word about what you intend to do has waned in value over time. I will reserve judgement (and maintain hope) until the next piece of late-game content is released.

6 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix.
[...]
These are just some immediate changes we will be making, but we will be taking the rest of your feedback into consideration as we further develop this system.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post. The Riven system will go and change, and for those who choose to use it, this is a post that covers what you can expect!

Do we have any details about how the stats of the Riven Mods will change? Or which will be affected?

 

As a parting note, I just wanted to thank everyone at Digital Extremes for all the hard work they've put into this game. Dialogues like these make me appreciate the extent to which everyone is invested in providing the best experience you possibly can. That effort does not go unnoticed. Keep up the good work!

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im not sure on changing riven mods that people have already worked for and spent a lot of plat on. Doing that is basically just a big middle finger to anyone who has spent a crap ton of time and kuva to get really good stats for their weapon.

I mean i spent over 10 hours re rolling my rubico mod only to get utter garbage every time. I cant imagine the frustration of people who have spent 20 or 30 hours or hundreds of plat to get a good one only to make them not even worth it.

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Hi, i have a question for the dev team. Can the same specific "prefix" be cycled more than once for that mod? Currently i am under the impression that it can, but because there are so many prefixes that i can't keep track of it seems it doesn't. It would be nice that the more you cycle, the specific prefix cannot be re-cycled again.  Plus can we get more kuva from breaking down the riven mod instead of endo? Adding on that idea, can we get kuva in correlation to the rank of the riven mod (so a Rank 10 riven mod will give more kuva than a rank 0 riven mod).

 

Im pretty ambivalent towards the riven mod. But i like the good stats, and despise the bad ones. 

Edited by dual1020

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:


Lastly, what is the immediate iteration you can expect?
Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix. Warframe content will not be balanced around Riven Mods, but Riven Mods will be balanced within their own ecosystem.

does this mean +dmg +multi +crit chance +crit dmg mods are going to be altered or removed

 

please consider plat and time investment in those that exist. a rollback would be fair so that tenno spending hundreds if not thousands of plat arent given something they didnt pay for just to accomodate some balance

 

and if they complain just say its the price of beta testing 

 

also my post on trading them: tinyurl.com/rivenmod

Edited by PookieNumnums
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2 hours ago, Borg1611 said:

I strongly disagree with this point. If we could choose the weapon, people would choose them for fun weapons as well. I mean, some people are choosing to get rid of their godlike Tonkor mods as soon as they get them because some people just hate it.

Having been part of many threads and posting many times on the devstream in demand of launcher rebalancing, that feel when I get a Riven mod from a Sortie and it turns out to be for the damned Tonkor... I am the kind of person of whom you speak.

Shame it didn't have excellent stats, could've vented it for a thousand plat or two. Tempted to reroll it myself, for that potential...

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Remove Riven Mods all together and fix your scaling and balance.

Or maybe dont release really S#&$ weapons, followed by really op weapons once in a while, that might even solve the problem.

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The "Riven disposition" is one hell of a bad idea.

So, you prefer adding a statistical nerf on some weapons' Riven Mods, based on their OP-ness.

- How will you determine which weapon's Riven Mod should be nerfed ? Beyond Tonkor and Simulor that are obvious, how do you determine if the Convectrix deserves a better probabillity for a good Riven Mode than Opticor ?

- Why don't you just buff up unused weapons and keep the same Riven Mods for everyone ? Makes more sense to me. You still won't be able to use your Grakata vs your Soma if you don't have the perfect +500% crit +500% dmg +500% corrosive Grakata Riven Mod that will cost you 3 billion hours of game time and 6 billion of Kuva.

Seems you're trying to fix the weaponry problems by adding more.

Edited by Chewarette
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3 hours ago, feellling said:

I think its unfair to change the stats,people have spent lots of plat on specific mods for their specific stats.Its like buying an orange,coming home and it miraculously turning into a pear.I hope my 600p spent on my sybaris mod wasnt wasted

Yup, I have spent way too many plats on good mods to see them nerfed. I will straightaway uninstall this game if the nerfs happen(and if I not reimbursed the plats I spent buying if the nerfs happen). Riven mods are what got me back to playing this game.

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7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

to encourage players to try the existing stats

YES, LETS TRY A CRIT MOD ON THE PANTHERA, GOOD JOB DE

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