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[DE]Rebecca

[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 1!

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7 hours ago, -CM-Liverslices said:

 

Can someone explain how MR works into this? Does my MR 23 help or hurt my chances at a powerful mod for a non-meta weapon?

 

I would tend to believe that it's not about the player mastery rank but the riven mod. Higher mastery rank requirement for "meta weapons" or stronger mods something along that line. That or it totally might be higher mastery = better stat chance, wouldn't expect to opposite though.

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I personally really like the idea of Riven Mods. I like how much it can help under-used weapons. However, there are couple of things that I personally would like DE to have a second look at.

First, the 15 capacity Riven Mod limit is in my opinion too little. Personally I really enjoy collecting things in Warframe. I collect mods, warframes, and weapons. However, the fact that there's only 15 Riven mod capacity means I won't be able to do so. I think warframe is fun because of the flexibility we have in building our load-outs, but Riven mod right now does not offer this flexibility. These mods are currently really hard to get, and tossing them out is just really difficult for me to do. I might one day have interest in a weapon that I had tossed the Riven mod out because I need to make room, and I will probably regret that a lot. I personally wouldn't mind buying Riven mod capacity with Kuva or even plat, I just want a way to keep all my Riven mods.

Second, the cost of re-rolling for the Riven Mod being exponential is just too high in addition to how hard Kuva farming is currently. It means eventually Riven mods would become infeasible to re-roll, and will end up being useless. Please consider adding a cap to the cost or just make it flat rate.

These are just my personal opinion, and I hope it helps.

Edited by themajorissue

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My worry is, what happened to damage 3.0?

There was a some talk about getting rid of mandatory mods and instead damage increasing with weapon rank. Scott even said on a devstream there is a working prototype that "feels good," I was hoping that those changes along with rebalances of older weapons would be the way to address the handful of weapons dominating the meta.

Now what? Has the whole idea been scrapped? Or are those changes still going through?

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8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

What they can do is add an interesting buff to a comparatively underpowered weapon in order to encourage players to think outside of that meta box.

Underpowered weapons usually are underpowered for a reason. They have low crit, low status chance, low other stats. And Riven mods applying percentage bonuses to these stats. Don't you see the problem here? These mods won't do much for weapon with 5% or so base stats, but they will make already powerful weapons much much stronger.

I understand it's easier to introduce random bonuses system and make players gring for good combinations of these bonuses, but this is not a solution. Many weapons should be manually revisited and revived. This system won't change that, especially in its current form when it wasn't even implemented properly. It's a horrible mess for now where we can get weapon with -100% base damage modifier or crit bonuses for weapon with no crit chance at all, physical damage bonuses for elemental weapons, etc. 

Edited by ograzzt
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Thank you for riven mods!  I have seen people use way more different guns now in sorties.

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What I don't understand, is that if this supposed to make us look back at our old arsenal, and give weapons we would otherwise ignore a chance, why would they exist for "meta" weapons like Tonkor in the first place? It doesn't really address or mitigate power creep, it ends up feeling like more mandatory damage mods, just to get an otherwise ignored weapon to be approaching the same level of use you could get out of something like a synoid simulor with less effort.

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Please explain what do you mean by " Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix. ". Please elaborate more? if its just making 20% less damage. I can take it. But if the stat reroll into something garbage like zoom +100%, I think I will claim a complaint to DE for releasing another No Man Sky scam for this riven mod. If you really want to make this mod a prototype or subject to change, you should not make it available on market in the first place. This is just making case like me a victim.

I spend 2k Plats for my Tonkor Mod. I want to ask who is responsible for this upcoming nerf? You are just like taking back my Prime Chamber. I dont care if DE want to nerf all riven mods on the new riven mods, but let the existing riven mods remain as it is.. DE is also at fault and have to be responsible.

Donald Thrump says "muslim banned", the next day the post is deleted. You think Muslim people can forgive or forget that kind of mistake?

 

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10 minutes ago, Hitexh said:

Please explain what do you mean by " Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix. ". Please elaborate more? if its just making 20% less damage. I can take it. But if the stat reroll into something garbage like zoom +100%, I think I will claim a complaint to DE for releasing another No Man Sky scam for this riven mod. If you really want to make this mod a prototype or subject to change, you should not make it available on market in the first place. This is just making case like me a victim.

I spend 2k Plats for my Tonkor Mod. I want to ask who is responsible for this upcoming nerf? You are just like taking back my Prime Chamber. I dont care if DE want to nerf all riven mods on the new riven mods, but let the existing riven mods remain as it is.. DE is also at fault and have to be responsible.

Donald Thrump says "muslim banned", the next day the post is deleted. You think Muslim people can forgive or forget that kind of mistake?

 

It's not DE's fault you paid 2000 plat for something, a price tag is clearly there.. you were impatient to get a tonkor riven yourself from RNG along wih good stats .. so you paid 2000 plat, clearly that is your own fault. DE did not come and tell you to "GO BUY THIS MOD OR YOU WILL BE A PLEB".

It's an MMO there will always be rebalancing, yes DE did execute it poorly, since it shouldn't have been a tradeable mod to begin with at least not until all the balance kinks are sorted out, but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to fix it / rebalance things still ~

All I hope is that DE has learned from this mistake and will improve the execution from now on.

Just my 2 cents,

~Jester.

Edited by Jester.
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This is another problem I've noticed, and that's weapons being given effects they can't use because of the random generation. I've seen synapses get added slash damage, simulors be given extra impact, etc. If these are meant to make weapons that fall by the wayside get more use, then they definitely need to be tweaked to make sure they can actually GET used in the first place.

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3 minutes ago, ZackOak said:

This is another problem I've noticed, and that's weapons being given effects they can't use because of the random generation. I've seen synapses get added slash damage, simulors be given extra impact, etc. If these are meant to make weapons that fall by the wayside get more use, then they definitely need to be tweaked to make sure they can actually GET used in the first place.

Yeah I kept getting +Puncture on my Zarr .. like 4 times n a row now.. :( It keeps ruining that perfect stat combination.

Just now, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Let people keep the stats of what they have now just balance the new ones unveiled after the fix.

 No, we don't need another Primed chamber situation in here again..

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1 minute ago, Jester. said:

It's not DE's fault you paid 2000 plat for something, a price tag is clearly there.. you were impatient to get a tonkor riven yourself from RNG along wih good stats .. so you paid 2000 plat, clearly that is your own fault. DE did not come and tell you to "GO BUY THIS MOD OR YOU WILL BE A PLEB".

It's an MMO there will always be rebalancing, yes DE did execute it poorly, since it shouldn't have been a tradeable mod to begin with at least not until all the balance kinks are sorted out ~

All I hope is that DE has learned from this mistake and will improve the execution from now on.

Just my 2 cents,

~Jester.

Mr Jester,

Do you think I have not notice that kind of weak defense?

No Man SKy didnt come and tell you to "GO BUY THIS MOD OR YOU WILL BE A PLEB". Its an Open World Sandbox, there will always be rebalancing. Yes, No Man Sky did execute it poorly, since it shouldnot have been multiplayer to begin with, at least not until the upcoming DLC sorted out.

Afterall that, I still admit that my tonkor is powerful. I Can accept for a slight nerf like damage -20% from the existing mod. But if its rerolled, that I will be very upset. You know that we are not paying/rerolling mod, for it to be rerolled again by DE, isnt it?

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6 minutes ago, Jester. said:

Yeah I kept getting +Puncture on my Zarr .. like 4 times n a row now.. :( It keeps ruining that perfect stat combination.

 No, we don't need another Primed chamber situation in here again..

Not really fair to people who spent plat. Buffing the ones for forgotten weapons and nerfing the stats of new unveiled meta weapons would be the fairest solution.

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3 minutes ago, Hitexh said:

Mr Jester,

Do you think I have not notice that kind of weak defense?

No Man SKy didnt come and tell you to "GO BUY THIS MOD OR YOU WILL BE A PLEB". Its an Open World Sandbox, there will always be rebalancing. Yes, No Man Sky did execute it poorly, since it shouldnot have been multiplayer to begin with, at least not until the upcoming DLC sorted out.

Afterall that, I still admit that my tonkor is powerful. I Can accept for a slight nerf like damage -20% from the existing mod. But if its rerolled, that I will be very upset. You know that we are not paying/rerolling mod, for it to be rerolled again by DE, isnt it?

Oh my god, dude.

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I believe that nerfing OP weapons mods and buffing underpowered ones mods is a good choice. Waiting for these changes :3

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I am really excited about Rivens at the moment, I even started running sorties again in an attempt to get more. But I can see some problems with them. Some of them revolve around the dreaded RNG, it can make your new mod feel less like Christmas morning and more like a big disappointment.

First, you have a concept of making us try weapons we don't usually favour. This can only happen if the Riven we get has great stats. But that's not guaranteed. Often the stats are irrelevant to a weapon, and sometimes they are even negative. Rather than spending time, effort, and an ever-increasing number of resources to try to fix a bad mod for a weapon you dislike, it's more likely to head directly for the trash bin.

Second, there's the underlying problem of the current damage system and the meta it enforces, that is, utility is often ignored in favour of damage, critical is the queen of all. So if the Riven's stats focus on utility, that's a likely reroll. What's more, due to the way stats are calculated, a non-crit-viable weapon can never become crit-viable and will still be ignored in favour of something more meta.

Third, if Rivens exist for the meta weapons, then those will be the most sought-after ones, even if the stat increase is reduced compared to less popular weapons. And if it is reduced so much that they become undesirable, then that loops straight back to being as punishing as getting a bad mod you wouldn't keep in the first place. The only way I see around it is to completely remove some weapons from the Riven pool.

Lastly, the way stat generation is handled is a bit worrysome. The mod I got, for example, offers two types of bonus damage to a weapon I am fond of. I was happy with it, until I saw that there's a possibility of three or even four bonus stats. From here it's a cruel gamble - do I try for a better combination, whilst risking losing my piece of good luck? Perhaps it would be better if we could refuse the rerolled stats - the time and resources cost, including cost increase, would still apply of course, but at least the sting of a bad reroll would be softened. In addition to that, perhaps the stat increase could be balanced around the number of stats on the mod. For example, for two stats, a possible increase up to 180%, but for four stats, only up to 90% each, so that a dual stat mod is not automatically worse than a quad stat.

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9 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones. Prepare to see a difference in stats of existing Riven Mods in an upcoming hotfix.

Okay, so does this mean that people should immediately stop trying to acquire Riven mods with good stats, since they are going to be retroactively changed? I have only purchased some veiled ones so far to see what I would get. But there are people out there who have been spending THOUSANDS--and I mean multiple thousands per--of platinum to acquire extremely powerful mods for the most popular and powerful weapons (Simulor, Tonkor, Soma, Dread). This has me worried, even as a person who has only invested about 100p in the Riven Lottery. Are you saying that you guys are going to be able to handle the blowback from the retroactive changing of mods that people have payed the equivalent of hundreds of dollars in legal tender for?

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8 minutes ago, Sushi_Desires said:

Okay, so does this mean that people should immediately stop trying to acquire Riven mods with good stats, since they are going to be retroactively changed? I have only purchased some veiled ones so far to see what I would get. But there are people out there who have been spending THOUSANDS--and I mean multiple thousands per--of platinum to acquire extremely powerful mods for the most popular and powerful weapons (Simulor, Tonkor, Soma, Dread). This has me worried, even as a person who has only invested about 100p in the Riven Lottery. Are you saying that you guys are going to be able to handle the blowback from the retroactive changing of mods that people have payed the equivalent of hundreds of dollars in legal tender for?

I understand this

Not really fair to people who spent plat. Buffing the ones for forgotten weapons and nerfing the stats of new unveiled meta weapons would be the fairest solution.

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5 minutes ago, Sushi_Desires said:

Okay, so does this mean that people should immediately stop trying to acquire Riven mods with good stats, since they are going to be retroactively changed? I have only purchased some veiled ones so far to see what I would get. But there are people out there who have been spending THOUSANDS--and I mean multiple thousands per--of platinum to acquire extremely powerful mods for the most popular and powerful weapons (Simulor, Tonkor, Soma, Dread). This has me worried, even as a person who has only invested about 100p in the Riven Lottery. Are you saying that you guys are going to be able to handle the blowback from the retroactive changing of mods that people have payed the equivalent of hundreds of dollars in legal tender for?

Thank God, Some of us still humanly understand what our tonkor players feel about this.

Edited by Hitexh

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When can we expect to see Melee Riven mods? I'm a melee-player and Rifle or Secondary Riven Mods don't really have any use to me, even though i love the System and where it's going.

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Just a question...

How is it possible you didn t see this?

It was a path already taken by so many games that turned them into a grinding inferno.... its not some new idea but something that Diablo, GW2 and many Others already took to put grinding inside their game.

You even copied the rarity colour :( .....how could you expect it to be a good idea?

 

When the nerf will come many player will be upset.... but you will save the game anyway on the longer run.

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10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Your commentary about meta weapons has been taken to heart as well, and we will be tweaking the algorithm to account for 'Riven Disposition'.

'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.
 

Let's see... This algorithm effectively screws all sniper type weapons (MK1 Paris has 60 damage non charge) out of potentially powerful Rivens as well as

Stradavar - MR 8

Supra - MR 7

Bad idea?

Bad idea.

Edited by HyokaChan
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I was wondering what this grand new system was, the Riven mods kinda disappointed me, tho I did start building a weapon because I got one decent Riven mod, it still doesn't make old weapons great again like you promised it would, I thought we would get a sort of augment on weapons that opened a skill tree that needed Kuva to get increased. would have been a fun system to toy around with because it would also have its limit with how many skills you can activate. Just an idea

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So...basically you first release a new system, then admit it's flawed and then you punish players for your lack of playtesting? 

It should have been obvious from the start people would go after meta weapons rivens. It's obvious. The whole rng thing will maked the nerfed riven mods useless to get so meta users will not bother. And in the end you have another forgotten system.

DE, this mods have potential. They really do. But please stop releasing things then taking them back from your players. Especially if people invest forma or in some cases real money on the system.

Either remove them and compensate the people who spent plat or just leave them in without nerfing things. Players will always follow power creep. And a tonkor dealing higher damage numbers hardly changes the facts its top tier. Meta people are happy to see their big numbers, low and mid tier weapons get a push into "high end" content.

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10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Riven Mods were added to incentivize end-game players to revisit old weapons and to change up their play style.

In their current state they are doing a rather poor job at it. Adding a bit of damage or crit on a weapon that has been gathering dust over a year is not going to make anyone use it. Players will just seek out good Riven mods for meta weapons and forget the rest if the system remains untouched. Let's face it, Warframe is a "Player VS Horde" game, and while Glaxion or Synapse with a good Riven mod is better than just plain old Glaxion/Synapse, it's still a bland and boring weapon on top of being an underpowered one.

Solution? Take a good, long look at how Diablo 3 legendaries work, then adapt it into Warframe mechanics. Acid Shells was a step in the right direction - Sobek suddenly found a FUN use in starchart missions. But that's one step. Take more of them. A lot more. Add Riven modifiers that are ALWAYS there on a Riven mod for that weapon and randomize the rest. 

Some examples for unique Riven weapon modifiers right off the bat:

Make Glaxion create a puddle of ice/freezing cloud on contact that deals Cold damage with a chance to proc. Or make enemies explode on kill, dealing low damage and freezing anyone in the blast with 50% chance. Or give it a 10% chance to deal 1000% increased damage to frozen enemies (you'll see a lot of Frost players with Glaxion after this). 

Make Synapse deal 1% more damage for every point of Energy your Warframe has. Or 20% chance to turn individual enemies into Lightning traps, Volt's ult style, that zap others in the vicinity. Or maybe restore 0.5% Energy on crit. 

Make Warframe-specific Rivens, even. Volt Prime is featured with a Latron on his icon? Add a Riven Latron mod that stops all other actions from depleting Volt's passive count and gives an Alt-Fire to Latron, which shoots a slow, piercing ball lightning that deals the entire amount of passive's charge worth of damage to everything in its path until it hits a wall. 

 

Then, lose the negative modifiers entirely. No one likes to install a super-rare weapon mod that makes you deal less damage. 

 

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

The exponential Cycling costs are there to encourage players to try the existing stats before they embark on the journey to the ‘perfect roll’. For those of you who want to find the best Mod possible, that avenue is available to you, but that is not the goal behind this system.

Kuva needs to be more readily available. Right now, farming Spihons is an RNG-heavy chore which is not fun nor very productive. We need more ways to get this resource. Guaranteed 5,000 Kuva per Sortie completion? Anything?

 

10 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

This mechanic is something that hasn’t existed in Warframe before, and we want to be careful in making sure it doesn’t undermine our ultimate goals for the game.

Don't be afraid to add crazy stuff to the game. You can always limit the Conclave availability for the sake of fair fights, but PvE has never been about fair. Horde slaying, remember? Right now, "difficult" in Warframe means cheesy, means "need to CC the hell out of it". Make it "crazy and fun", no one will complain. I won't at least. ^_^

 

Edited by Reifnir
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