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New Items are entering Prime Vault!

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Just now, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It really is a calculated risk they're taking. If Valkyr would had to have displaced any other frame with a moderate player base, the complaints they'd have raised would cause enough bad blood for them to not risk it. Then again, the only reason Banshee's skipped again is because the sheer potential profit Valkyr can bring compared to Banshee as a Christmas PA would have meant they'd have lost so much money if they went with Banshee. Now they only have to deal with the disgruntled fans of a frame that barely has a fanbase anyway, so there's basically on real drawback.

What I'm curious about is whether Banshee P gets pushed back yet again in 3 months because her frame is too similar to Bardframe's and DE doesn't want Banshee to steal her thunder when she's released.

Bardframe is a he, the infested frame will be female. At least insofar as I have been able to gather. And in reference to your post, yeah, they are doing what might make them a bit more profit over the holiday, but is it worth alienating customers over it? That's an extremely calculated risk that can backfire quickly. I expect there's people who do not care one lick about Banshee or Banshee Prime that are miffed just because it's yet another shattered statement. It gets hard to keep trusting them when they do things they say they won't do.

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4 hours ago, Freezing-Dragon said:

Honestly...

I'm tired of the 'Vault' system.

It's not fair for some players who just started.

Most of the vaulted primes are USEFUL..

The regular warframes are just as good, just because primes have bonus energy, or armor doesn't mean that those are the only kind that are playable. People like you make it seem like having the regular warframes are a waste of time. The new players will be fine, just like the people who missed out on excalibur prime are fine.

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4 minutes ago, Llewellyn_Lionheart said:

Bardframe is a he, the infested frame will be female. 

Other way around. Bardframe is female and infested frame is male.

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2 minutes ago, Llewellyn_Lionheart said:

Bardframe is a he, the infested frame will be female. At least insofar as I have been able to gather. And in reference to your post, yeah, they are doing what might make them a bit more profit over the holiday, but is it worth alienating customers over it? That's an extremely calculated risk that can backfire quickly. I expect there's people who do not care one lick about Banshee or Banshee Prime that are miffed just because it's yet another shattered statement. It gets hard to keep trusting them when they do things they say they won't do.

Spoiler

A60SGj2.png

And yeah, it's worth alienating potential customers if the projected number of them is so low that the profits from disgruntling them will far outweighs lost profits from them. Truth be told, with no frame(female, anyway) that'd be more likely than with Banshee.

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4 hours ago, residente said:

Don't you know the answer? The answer is Profit.

They have noticed your and every other Tenno thread about that matter. The fact that Prime Vault still exist is because later on they will unvault the stuff and sell it again for real money. No suggestion will be able to counter that

 

Care to explain how it helps the economy?

Friendly reminder that we could have EVERY prime item in the game if DE wanted to spare the parts properly between the relics we have.

Pic is outdated but my point stands.

oEW1nrR.jpg

you made your point there now i agree it is possible to do it

and for the economy part it still stands because every time something gets vaulted it becomes valueble and ppl that dont have it want it then and can only get it buying it from others. But here is the part DE gains from most ppl that want them are the new players, new players arnt common with the economy yet, and mostly when playing games these days new players expect ptp to be a main thing (wf is not exept cosmetic wise) and to not waste to much time with then seeming hard grind thus go buy plat to get the vaulted items. DE wins, seller wins, buyer wins.

And i know this same model can be used without vaulted but the rarety makes the price and the price is the factor for DE and the item seller because vaulted items usualy cost like 500plat ? and the ones not vaulted usualy go for like 100?

srry for my english not a native but ye this is it and ye im a salesman.

Edited by kreftet

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2 minutes ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:
  Reveal hidden contents

A60SGj2.png

And yeah, it's worth alienating potential customers if the projected number of them is so low that the profits from disgruntling them will far outweighs lost profits from them. Truth be told, with no frame(female, anyway) that'd be more likely than with Banshee.

 

2 minutes ago, NovusNova said:

Other way around. Bardframe is female and infested frame is male.

Thanks for the corrections. And like I said - if it's only Banshee users that get miffed, that's one thing. I do think there will be more people than that upset by the decision to break the pattern again though, even if it makes some sort of sense for them to do it. They repeatedly said they'd not go out of order again. People will notice that. 

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Just now, Llewellyn_Lionheart said:

Thanks for the corrections. And like I said - if it's only Banshee users that get miffed, that's one thing. I do think there will be more people than that upset by the decision to break the pattern again though, even if it makes some sort of sense for them to do it. They repeatedly said they'd not go out of order again. People will notice that. 

Same argument can be used on the level of players who care about frames they don't personally play. There's a lot of players who don't play Mirage but would care a lot more about her being "mistreated", so to speak, than an unpopular frame. A frame's standing in the community is not just made up of players using it but also by other players caring about it, maybe because they like running with it in a squad, maybe they just like its looks, or maybe because their friend plays mains that frame. For every actual player of a frame there are a number of "fans" of it, meaning that the fewer players there are the fewer fans there are as well. In the case of a very unpopular frame being sidelined for a reasonably popular one, the relatively few complaints by players and miffed fans are sure to be drowned out by the droves of players and fans of the popular frame. And if we want to speculate even further, accidentally leaking those "bad news" early also serves to spread out the disappointment and anger before the official announcement is made, at which point the emotional momentum has already ground to a halt while the anticipation for the already known news suffocates any remaining dissent. Clever PR is what I call it.

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3 hours ago, residente said:

Care to explain how it helps the economy?

Well it drives the economy.

  1. The guaranteed appreciation of prime stuff value (and thus effort) upon vaulting gives people a reason to actually farm prime stuffs for more than just themselves and close friends. Why bother if it is a mad dash to the bottom pricewise? Once the demand is sufficiently met, the price will drop even more. Making prime stuffs like Ember Prime ducat fodder.
  2. Without the guarantee of vaulting the early (not initial) value of a given prime stuff, they would be worth a whole lot less, providing even less of an incentive to farm.
  3. The anticipation of vaulting keeps the pre-vaulting cost of a prime stuff high and stable enough to makes it more worth farming and selling and provides incentive to farm and, in some cases, buy.
  4. Vaulting recognizes peoples' effort and allows them to invest it. No vault means that your effort becomes worthless over time. That isn't a great selling point for getting people engaged in the marketplace.

I am not an economist, not did I major in anything close to it, but this how I see it. Sure, vaulting is bad for new players but not vaulting means there is little reason to play the game.

Perhaps DE could add some things to make it a little easier on new players, but vaulting is important.

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The relic system doesn't change anything. Do you really want 100 different relics diluting loot tables? It'd make it almost impossible for anyone to farm the things they want b/c getting the relic that you want would be a pain. Unless they have a unique node for each type of relic, the vault still needs to exist.

Edited by Yonm

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Can't say I'm bothered about those items going, I already have them all, but I do feel that vaulting things is a bad system.  The relics while improving some aspects of prime have introduced other problems. 

We now have another two syndicates where their sacrifices are being changed and I'm not sure about others but I normally keep a spare if one turns up for when I eventually get to the point of upgrading.... I suppose I best get on with unlocking cephalon suda as I have a nova neuroptics sitting spare for it and I don't really feel like having to farm for ANOTHER prime neuroptics just because somethings being vaulted (this is why I strongly feel a ducat sacrifice would be better). 

The other aspect is that getting the exact relic you want is hard enough as it is.... I have ZERO relics with nikana prime items in because I can't get any via rng, I actually have more dakra prime parts from relics and they all came AFTER it was vaulted ....

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More often than not I remember how good DE are as developers, but times where they neglect their existing content are a bit... disillusioning.

-Prime Time, Meg: "Oh hey this is really cool, fan concept of the week: Water themed warframe, I don't think we have one of those yet." *hear Hydroid sobbing into a bottle of rum in the distance*

 

-B: "Oh hey what about a sound-themed warframe? We'll call it the Bard frame."

A: "Yeah we already have one like that, Bansh-"

B: "SHUT UP TOM; anyway where was I? Oh yeah, a sound-themed warframe, how cool would that be :D"

 

-A: "So we're supposed to Prime warframes starting with the oldest, and then about the order they were released. Who's up next? Oh, looks like Bansh-"

B: "SHUT UP TOM; anyway I got a great idea guys. How about Valkyr next? Tons of people will like that! Way more than the number of people that'll care about Tom's beloved Banshee."

A: "Dude I don't even care that much about- I just thought we should try and do this right."

B: "Yeah OR we could do it this way and cash in on its massive fanbase. You really wanna make this harder than it needs to be?"

A: "K fine, you know what, I don't really care anymore. Do whatever."

 

Really lol. Is that about how those decisions get made?

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Gotta hand it to DE. They get to be lazy about loot tables WHILE raking in cash from plat sales. Because players buy plat to pay to other players for vaulted items. It's not really what I want as a customer, but it's what the market will bear.

DE is a bastion of capitalism in the great frozen north.

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soma prime is going away, FINALLY 

i can't wait to unload my sets for that glorious plat 

 

also if people are worried about syndicate rank ups nothing to worry about, they will just change it to one of the new drops with the next prime

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1 hour ago, Harutora-Joushiro said:

So how will we get syndicate rank up that asks for parts from these primes? I hope you won't also be locking people out from ranking up with syndicates.

Every time vaulted stuff has been used for a Syndicate, the requirement for the syndicate is moved to a non-vaulted equivalent part.  Just like Scindo Prime Blade was replaced by Nikana Prime Blade.

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14 hours ago, [DE]Drew said:

Tenno, you have one week left! Obtain the Relics before they are gone!

Already ahed of you Drew :clem:

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9 hours ago, Insizer said:

Well it drives the economy.

  1. The guaranteed appreciation of prime stuff value (and thus effort) upon vaulting gives people a reason to actually farm prime stuffs for more than just themselves and close friends. Why bother if it is a mad dash to the bottom pricewise? Once the demand is sufficiently met, the price will drop even more. Making prime stuffs like Ember Prime ducat fodder.
  2. Without the guarantee of vaulting the early (not initial) value of a given prime stuff, they would be worth a whole lot less, providing even less of an incentive to farm.
  3. The anticipation of vaulting keeps the pre-vaulting cost of a prime stuff high and stable enough to makes it more worth farming and selling and provides incentive to farm and, in some cases, buy.
  4. Vaulting recognizes peoples' effort and allows them to invest it. No vault means that your effort becomes worthless over time. That isn't a great selling point for getting people engaged in the marketplace.

I am not an economist, not did I major in anything close to it, but this how I see it. Sure, vaulting is bad for new players but not vaulting means there is little reason to play the game.

Perhaps DE could add some things to make it a little easier on new players, but vaulting is important.

Other than, ya know, playing the game.  If artificial rarity spikes like vaulting are required to give people a reason to play, then there is a MUCH bigger elephant in the room than some database with drop info on it.

On the note of it driving the economy *shrug* an economy of any sort generally requires three things, a resource (this can be either materials or manpower), a "business" layer (craftsman, salesman, etc.), and a consumer everything else serving to modify the processes and prices involved (supply and demand etc.) 

The way I see it vaulting provides an artificial rarity/supply and demand spike at the price of game content availability, and that's NOT a trade I would ever make if my opinion on this mattered in the grand scheme of things.

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15 hours ago, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It really is a calculated risk they're taking. If Valkyr would had to have displaced any other frame with a moderate player base, the complaints they'd have raised would cause enough bad blood for them to not risk it. Then again, the only reason Banshee's skipped again is because the sheer potential profit Valkyr can bring compared to Banshee as a Christmas PA would have meant they'd have lost so much money if they went with Banshee. Now they only have to deal with the disgruntled fans of a frame that barely has a fanbase anyway, so there's basically on real drawback.

What I'm curious about is whether Banshee P gets pushed back yet again in 3 months because her frame is too similar to Bardframe's and DE doesn't want Banshee to steal her thunder when she's released.

What if they released both? I know that isn't likely, but imagine the $$$ brought in from TWO sets of Prime Access. And isn't Valk p getting released late november, with frost and ember P being unvaulted around Christmastime?

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I thought the whole relics thing came to be in order to remove the need for a vault at all! As I understand it the vault exists to keep drop rates in such a way that farming for a certain part only requires a few of tries in order to get it, as opposed to the hundreds of tries it would take if all the primes were available at the same time. However, with the relics system I though this would no longer be needed. As a player and paying customer that entered this game relatively recently it upsets me to know that I have no access to game content that was available a couple of months ago, let alone years ago, and that the cause is mechanic that no longer makes sense.

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i kek'd at all people who dislikes Prime Vault
i mean, do you even know there is a saying "Things Come and Gone"?
when something is coming, there must be something that gone.

also, if you really really want Primes to not get vaulted, good luck getting relic number 1340.

 

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4 hours ago, rei.ief said:

i kek'd at all people who dislikes Prime Vault
i mean, do you even know there is a saying "Things Come and Gone"?
when something is coming, there must be something that gone.

also, if you really really want Primes to not get vaulted, good luck getting relic number 1340.

 

Right now I'm counting 47 Prime Items that need seperate construction queues.

13 of them are frames.

52 parts to build all primed frames so far.

9 primaries which for the most part take 4 items to construct 5 for paris prime.

37 more parts

8 buildable secondaries which take a varying count of parts so generalizing four parts per.

32 parts

12 buildable prime melees again generalizing four parts per

48 parts

2 sentinels four parts each

8 parts

 

177 parts in total, each relic can fit five of those parts and still have room for a forma >_>, so it would only take THIRTY SIX DIFFERENT RELICS to support the current drop variety. divide by the four levels of relics and you'd only need about 9 relics per tier to support that.

You could LITERALLY put a relic tier on FOUR NODES OF THE SAME MISSION TYPE and support the ENTIRE prime variety sans the founder gear.  The only reason things are still as they are is to induce rarity via vault and low drop rates.  You'd be MR 50+ by the time the game would HAVE to support relic number 1340.

Edited by Irorone
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