Vaulting needs to stop. Here's something to think about DE

[Stormandreas]

So, as many of you are now aware, Nova Prime, Soma Prime and the Vasto Prime are all being vaulted very soon.

Now, I understand completely about the economy of Warframe, and how DE makes their money, however, I have one thing to say. The Relic System.

Prime Vaulting was first introduced to stop the dilution of the drop tables in the void, so we could get new primes without having to siphon through 40567823489 keys to do it! That was fine, and it made sense, albiet annoyed a lot of players because they were then incapable of getting that item or warframe without having to shell out nearly 2000 platinum for it (the market skyrocketted because of the vaulting)

Now the solution DE had to this, was the Relic System, and I remember then distinctly saying that the Relics should hopefully stop vaulting as it will give them a much better way to distribute rewards, therefore leaving a lot of space for new primes to be added to the mix. This system is what we have now.
This is fine and all, however as soon as the Relic System was introduced, Nyx was vaulted.... I certainly facepalmed at this. Now we have Nova. So I ask.... why? There's no reason or excuse to vault the frames anymore. Yes ok, having more relics will dilute some drop tables, but nearly all relics drop EVERYWHERE!!! So instead, we can have specific ones drop in specific areas with similar drop chances (matched to level, so NOT ACCURATE VALUES Lv2-5 = 2% drop but Lv35-40 = 8% drop, as an example)
After that, there can still be other relics that drop through the same drop table

So what we fully end up with, is different Relics spread throughout the entire starchart, making players have to play on a variety of different nodes in order to acquire the relics they need for a specific prime.
The relic system is very very powerful, but is severely underused to its fullest potential, and I feel this way would really bring it into its own, and allow EVERYONE a fair and equal chance to get every piece of prime equipment in the game.

Now would this affect the economy? Short answer, yes. Long answer, it would stabilize it, as everyone can access everything now, so we'd no longer have people paying with their internal organs just to get the equipment they want, because there wont be a shortage of it. Would it affect DE and Warframe as a game financially... perhaps, however highly unlikely. The staple for Warframe is, everything is free, you only pay to get things faster. That's fine and its a great way to go by, but by completely stopping any access to content entirely, that ideal cannot ever be realized. Generally players pay for the prime access because they can't be bothered with the grind, or they want to support DE. This would still happen regardless if the relics were fully open to everyone all the time.
The only dip DE would ever see, would be a slight reduction in platinum sales around the vaulting times, but instead, the sales would spread out more evenly, just as the ingame market would for trading.

 

So DE, if you read this, please take all this onboard, and have a serious think about full public release of all primes. Many people I know are incredibly frustrated that they can't get the equipment me and others have, simply because they didn't play early enough. Its a poor way to treat newer players. "Oh well you didn't play earlier, too bad, just wait and shell out 60 bucks in 6 months time", should not continue!

TL;DR
Continue introducing new primes through Prime Access
Put new Primes into new Relics.
Re-introduce old primes into Relics
Sort out the drop Locations of Relics and spread them around, instead of just... every type of that relic can be gotten on that node.
?????
Profit?
 

[Sarge_Tarmus]

I agree. Actually, the most useful frames are vaulted or going to be vaulted. Rhino, Ember, Loki... And Nova is going to be next...

[KirukaChan]

Why would DE stop vaulting just because it would be better for the players? The little unvaulting events of theirs make them a ton of money, I bet.

[pauli133]

Vaulting will never stop. Period. Artificial scarcity is necessary for the health of the ingame economy.

If you look beyond Axi, relic drop locations are pretty varied. They're grouped in unusual ways; some can be had all over the place, some have much shorter lists. Things could be more interesting if they'd let us get relics from Sab and Mob Def missions. It's important to balance choice and efficiency - on the one hand, nobody should be required to play mission types they don't like as the only way to get relics they need; on the other hand, having locations that allow for reasonably focused farming is beneficial.

 

[Hitexh]

This thread will get less attention, why? because:

Prime vault = DE cash

Prime vault also = Old Players Plats

So its a win win solution. Oh wait, New Players? well thats their punishment for joining late. LOL

I agree with you though, prime vault need to stop. I dont like how the game content is being limited. We have ducats system here too to burn those prime parts. But it is just me. I believe most rich player from making prime part sold will object this.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Vaulting won't stop, DE needs to cycle old relics out and new relics in.  Otherwise the relic drop table will become so diluted that acquiring new prime stuff will become increasingly difficult.  Besides, vaulting stuff is a revenue stream for DE.  Do you want them to make less money? 

Yup, I'm sure they'll listen to any suggestions regarding making less money.  *rolleyes*

Edited November 15, 2016 by (PS4)Magician_NG
grammar fixes

[Achernaerii]

Well, I had nothing against 'vaulting' when it was first introduced.
As OP said - it was meant to "stop the dilution of the drop tables in the void", and it worked. The relic system was meant to bring more space for prime drops...

But after the whole "Prime Vault" became a source of income for DE and now is going to stay, I have mixed feelings.
I would prefer 'prime tables rotations' or something like (now gone) sortie seasons, that would change every month. 
 

[Stormandreas]

Just now, Hitexh said:

This thread will get less attention, why? because:

Prime vault = DE cash

Prime vault also = Old Players Plats

So its a win win solution. Oh wait, New Players? well thats their punishment for joining late. LOL

I agree with you though, prime vault need to stop. I dont like how the game content is being limited. We have ducats system here too to burn those prime parts. But it is just me. I believe most rich player from making prime part sold will object this.

You've summed up this thread perfectly my friend. Yes the vault makes DE money, but its not done well. Old players scam new players out of plat, and new players get punished for not playing earlier.

I'm just waiting for the crazy Traders to come in and start shouting nonesense cause they want their 2k plat every 3 months without paying a cent.

[Freezing-Dragon]

I'd like to have a 'Sortie' seasons. So that any tennos did not obtain can have a better chance.

[Ginthus]

I think the vaulting system is ok, the only real change they need to do is with how you gather the relics. Running only defense or interception can get quite tiresome after a while. (ofc you can run other missions but lets try and be realistic here)

[anikj2020]

They can stop vaulting frames and weapons and just keep vaulting prime accessories!

That way they keep their income and at the same time people who want to farm can be happy :)

Well but it's never gonna happen so........Learn to let go  

[(PSN)Stanicek3]

The main reason I still want vaulting is so there isn't 100 relic types at once. The more relics, the lesser chance of getting a relic you need. This would be a problem with the key system, too. Too many drops for one mission and even a common item turns rare.

[Bipp]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Stanicek3 said:

The main reason I still want vaulting is so there isn't 100 relic types at once. The more relics, the lesser chance of getting a relic you need. This would be a problem with the key system, too. Too many drops for one mission and even a common item turns rare.

Only because DE choose to put at least 5 different relics in the same mission nearly everywhere you look.

Lith						Meso						Neo						Axi
A1	C1	K1	N1	S3	V1	D1	F1	S1	S2	V1	V2	N2	N3	S1	S3	V2	V3	A1	G1	N1	N2	N3	T1	V1	V3
Apollodorus (Sur)	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C
Boethius (MD)
Caloris (Res)
Elion (Cap)		✔				✔				✔		✔		✔
Lares (Def)	A	A	A	A		A	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C
M Prime (Ext)
Odin (Int)	A	A	A	A	A	A	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C
Pantheon (Ext)
Suisei (Spy)	✔	✔	✔	✔	✔	✔
Terminus (Sab)

See what I mean? 

Look at all those empty spaces in the other missions. 

And DE has just stuffed the endless ones (barring Captures which actually surprised me) with every relic that can drop for their appropriate level.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Keybopsef

[Godzilla853]

I noticed that most of all relics are found in defense survival interception and excavation. What about all the others?

Edited November 15, 2016 by Godzilla853

[trst]

While I agree that it would be nice for vaulting to not be a thing it does still serve a purpose outside of making money.

It's future proofing. Sure there is enough space on the charts right now for all the relics but what about a few primes down the line? Eventually there won't be enough nodes for all the relic drops.

It's not perfect but having every relic remain in-game is also not a perfect solution. Eventually we'd need some new system in place for the sole purpose of relic farming (relic relics?!).

[Stormandreas]

1 minute ago, Keybopsef said:

Only because DE choose to put at least 5 different relics in the same mission nearly everywhere you look.

Lith						Meso						Neo						Axi
A1	C1	K1	N1	S3	V1	D1	F1	S1	S2	V1	V2	N2	N3	S1	S3	V2	V3	A1	G1	N1	N2	N3	T1	V1	V3
Apollodorus (Sur)	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C
Boethius (MD)
Caloris (Res)
Elion (Cap)		✔				✔				✔		✔		✔
Lares (Def)	A	A	A	A		A	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C
M Prime (Ext)
Odin (Int)	A	A	A	A	A	A	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C	B/C
Pantheon (Ext)
Suisei (Spy)	✔	✔	✔	✔	✔	✔
Terminus (Sab)

See what I mean? 

Look at all those empty spaces in the other missions. 

And DE has just stuffed the endless ones (barring Captures which actually surprised me) with every relic that can drop.

Thank you. This is exactly what I'm talking about. Whats the point in this really? We can get every relic nearly everywhere.... whats the point in that? Given that each relic can have 5 items on you could make 3 new ones of each relic type and you've suddenly got space for 55 prime parts!!! Each prime access will have on average 10. That's 5 and a half prime access'!!!!!!!

[Ginthus]

the problem with survival and excavation is that they have alot higher chance to give you ammo drum or 2-4k credits and similarly insulting rewards for doing lvl 40+ content. Where in comparison, some inteception/defence mission will have almost 0% chance to not give you a relic

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by Ginthus
Defence < Interception

[Insizer]

6 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

Now would this affect the economy? Short answer, yes. Long answer, it would stabilize it, as everyone can access everything now, so we'd no longer have people paying with their internal organs just to get the equipment they want, because there wont be a shortage of it. Would it affect DE and Warframe as a game financially... perhaps, however highly unlikely. The staple for Warframe is, everything is free, you only pay to get things faster. That's fine and its a great way to go by, but by completely stopping any access to content entirely, that ideal cannot ever be realized. Generally players pay for the prime access because they can't be bothered with the grind, or they want to support DE. This would still happen regardless if the relics were fully open to everyone all the time.
The only dip DE would ever see, would be a slight reduction in platinum sales around the vaulting times, but instead, the sales would spread out more evenly, just as the ingame market would for trading.

No it would crash it, by making the value of effort people made worthless as time goes on. The initial release of prime stuffs will make their value exceedingly high as their supply is low and would quickly drop as more and more listings are added (supply increasing). Knowing this, no one will buy, the prime stuffs early (low early demand), preferring to wait it out. This low demand would drive the price down even quicker, making people scramble to sell this prime stuff, making the effort put in by people who wanted to sell worth very little, and keep getting lower as time goes on. At this point demand increases, bringing costs up, but not by much as there are already a large amount of listings. From here demand gets lower and lower and supply goes up due to people getting the prime stuff by accident. At some point the market demand will be sufficently met, and costs would only be sustained by people wanting to buy the prime stuffs to resell to Baro for ducats.

The market would stabilize at some point, but it would stabilize at Ember Prime set for 5p. Good for new players, not good for the people who actually put the effort in.

People farm prime stuffs because they are investing their effort for later. Knowing that all of this will happen, why would anyone invest effort to begin with? By large, they wouldn't. They will just farm for themselves and close friends, but that's it. Some will farm and sell to exploit the lack of supply, but facing the known fact that their effort's value is not guaranteed to be the same or more as time goes on does not make for a good selling point to people.

I'm no economist, but that's my two cents.

[Reidmaster]

1 hour ago, Stormandreas said:

Old players scam new players out of plat

Look I think that the whole vaulting system could be better but players are not "scamming" anyone. That's just how simple economics works, when supply goes down and demand goes up, the prices also go up.

 

The one good thing with the current system is the ability to get the exclusive cosmetics again (which is nice).

Edited November 15, 2016 by Reidmaster

[Hypernaut1]

I think vaulting primes help keep them special and it helps the regular variant stay relevant. without vaulting, we would end up with a growing pool of irrelevant tenno items... Like regular Ash.

It also a way to generate excitement. I seriously doubt it's JUST about plat, especially since everythime they vault something it gives me less reason to even think twice about buying plat. New players have a while before they even wrap their minds around missing out on primes

[Pepperdy]

Lets just make it so DE has a harder time making money, lets not pay for the people who create the content. Why don't we just shut down DE and warframe down all together, I mean who wants a free to play game anyways? Great idea, bravo. They already make it super easy to earn in game currency, just chill, stop asking for everything to be handed at to you, just because you think you are a special cookie who deserves it.

The new players can play the regular warframe. The Prime variant is only slightly better in stats, and with so many specialized skins coming out people won't have the excuse "but primes look better" There is literally no other reason for wanting the prime version than "I want to have everything" boohoo. The rest of us who never got excalibur prime got over it, the new players can too.

[Zepp_]

Why do people seem to think it is owed to them that all frames be available?  I see no problem with availability rotation.  This sounds an awful lot like entitlement.

[Zeclem]

29 minutes ago, Pepperdy said:

Lets just make it so DE has a harder time making money, lets not pay for the people who create the content. Why don't we just shut down DE and warframe down all together, I mean who wants a free to play game anyways? Great idea, bravo. They already make it super easy to earn in game currency, just chill, stop asking for everything to be handed at to you, just because you think you are a special cookie who deserves it.

The new players can play the regular warframe. The Prime variant is only slightly better in stats, and with so many specialized skins coming out people won't have the excuse "but primes look better" There is literally no other reason for wanting the prime version than "I want to have everything" boohoo. The rest of us who never got excalibur prime got over it, the new players can too.

new players missed out on more than just excalibro prime tho js. and vaulting is not helping DE all that much, its helping ingame economy. i'd be satisfied if there was seasons for prime drop tables myself instead of having everything farmable at once.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

5 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

Prime Vaulting was first introduced to stop the dilution of the drop tables in the void

Now the solution DE had to this, was the Relic System,

and I remember then distinctly saying that the Relics should hopefully stop vaulting as it will give them a much better way to distribute rewards

Your premise is built on two fallacies.   DE didn't start vaulting stuff for any consideration to drop tables and they didn't switch to relics to "fix" a problem that isn't there.  They vault stuff because it makes business sense for them to do so and that doesn't change from void with keys to fissures with relics.

They have never once to my knowledge said they would stop vaulting stuff.

Vaulting is not some evil thing we all need to hate.  All that is required is a reasonable way of getting the stuff unvaulted periodically.  We don't yet have that but I have hopes that DE is at least thinking about this.  It takes a toddler level intelligence to see that putting four sets of stuff into the vault while taking out two per year isn't a sustainable, acceptable model.  The folks at DE are A LOT smarter than toddlers, thus my optimism.

[Voltage]

If DE stopped vaulting and sold old accessories for money they would make just as much sales, people bought Targis/misa not Mag/Frost.