Primary Tier

[Oleker]

So... people are posting warframe tiers, melee tiers. So... what about primary gun? Share your thoughts about good/bad primary weapons!

[Mickey1779]

I use the Hek, very ammo efficient and still viable even after shotgun nerf.

 

Use a Bolto as secondary for longer range.

 

As a side benefit using a shotgun as primary frees up ALL my rifle mods for DETH MACHINE RIFLE, he's a beast.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Oi...  Well, I have a lot more experience with these than melee, so hopefully this list will be less guesswork...  Bear in mind that the list shall be as the weapons currently are, so weapons like the Burston and Latron are going to be far lower than they are by numbers due to the frame-rate bug for instance.

 

 

Tier 1: best in class, these weapons are stupendous for what they do.

Tier 2: fantastic weapons, these are going to be a great addition to any arsenal

Tier 3: good weapons that can be used to great effect

Tier 4: weapons that are generally outshone by others of the same type or generally mediocre

Tier 5: junk/too situational

 

 

 

Tier 1: Boltor, Supra, Ogris, Hek

Tier 2: Latron Prime, Torid

Tier 3: Paris, Snipetron, Lanka, Dread, Gorgon, Braton, Dera, Boar, Strun

Tier 4: Brandal, Burston, Latron, Vulkar

Tier 5: Grakata, Ignis, Flux Rifle

Edited July 2, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Fleischkloppa]

Tier 1: Boltor, Supra, Ogris, Hek, Latron Prime

 

Basically this.

[GottFaust]

Oi...  Well, I have a lot more experience with these than melee, so hopefully this list will be less guesswork...  Bear in mind that the list shall be as the weapons currently are, so weapons like the Burston and Latron are going to be far lower than they are by numbers due to the frame-rate bug for instance.

 

 

Tier 1: best in class, these weapons are stupendous for what they do.  Notably, all do AoE damage.

Tier 2: fantastic weapons, these are going to be a great addition to any arsenal

Tier 3: good weapons that can be used to great effect

Tier 4: weapons that are generally outshone by others of the same type

Tier 5: junk/too situational

 

 

 

Tier 1: Boltor, Supra, Ogris, Hek

Tier 2: Latron Prime, Paris, Snipetron, Torid

Tier 3: Lanka, Gorgon, Braton, Dera, Boar

Tier 4: Brandal, Burston, Latron, Strun, Dread, Vulkar

Tier 5: Grakata, Ignis, Flux Rifle

 

After fixing the frame rate bug, I expect something along the lines of this...

 

Tier 1: Boltor, Supra, Ogris, Hek, Latron Prime

Tier 2: Paris, Snipetron, Torid

Tier 3: Lanka, Gorgon, Braton, Dera, Boar, Burston, Latron,

Tier 4: Brandal, Strun, Dread, Vulkar

Tier 5: Grakata, Ignis, Flux Rifle

This is pretty much dead-on in my experience.

[Tatersail]

Acrid is missing, its Tier 1  I know its a pistol but it should be counted as a Primary, its large in size and has no issues working as a Primary

 

and sorry but Lanka must be moved down to Tier 4 at least

"outshone by others of the same type" counts pretty much all guns when compared to lanka.. pretty sure latron is a better sniper

Vulkar easily outshines it, able to shoot 3 times in the same time it takes Lanka to shoot once, with better accuracy.

"too situational" - is what I would call the Lanka.... I have never seen a Lanka till I made one, this has to tell you something?

A formaed, Potatoed Weapon that can't clear a T3 solo is not "can be used to great effect"  Its Situational at best.

 

Strun is also a fantastic shotgun, it does 130 damage 10 less than Hek at 140, but it fire 2 more shots, and its very easy to get, I have cleared t3's with it no issues, and while hek is a direct upgrade, this is still a Decent gun should be Tier 3

 

Dread is also considered a good sniper weapon with some insane crit damage on weak points, the argument goes on an on Dread Vs Paris but I do think dread should be moved up to Tier 3, it can rip out 7k crits against all factions

Edited July 1, 2013 by Tatersail

[Volt_Cruelerz]

The Lanka is one of the four primaries I've never used.  I've heard conflicting reports on it.  Most hate it, but others point out that it scales spectacularly well with modding due to its incredibly high base damage, even if it is electric.  And just because most people don't make something takes, what, 7 fieldron doesn't mean that it's UP, just not OP.

 

My time with the Strun was biased as it is the only weapon in the game to give me motion sickness within moments of firing the first few shots.

 

Dread is another weapon I don't have, but generally speaking, slashing is worse than armor-ignore which is why I put it where I did.

[Qynchou]

Braton>>>>>>> Boltor. I'll hold my oppinion untill boltor has more DPS/more accuracy/no bullet travel time.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Braton>>>>>>> Boltor. I'll hold my oppinion untill boltor has more DPS/more accuracy/no bullet travel time.

Perhaps you should look at this then: http://www.mediafire.com/download/x5ykdufbk64nols/Warframe_-_Weapon_Damage_Verus_Enemies.xlsx

[Qynchou]

Perhaps you should look at this then: http://www.mediafire.com/download/x5ykdufbk64nols/Warframe_-_Weapon_Damage_Verus_Enemies.xlsx

Cool, now make one for the ancient boot.

 

Also this is only base damage, elemental damages dont inherit armor pierce/ignore.

 

My point being elemental damage will scale off better from higher DPS weapons.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Qynchou

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Cool, now make one for the ancient boot.

 

Also this is only base damage, elemental damages dont inherit armor pierce/ignore.

 

My point being elemental damage will scale off better from higher DPS weapons.

True, but even elemental damage has to deal with armor scaling.  My point was that the Boltor's place is high-level defense for Corpus and Grineer.  It has its place and excels in it.

[Verazix]

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/10oqFLiZxS7TpkrSpshjoaCTjpqQAaNOOill-NhmuF3c/viewanalytics?pli=1

That's a random poll I saw on Reddit once that gives a fairly accurate and large evaluation on what people do/don't like.

The Lanka is one of the four primaries I've never used.  I've heard conflicting reports on it.  Most hate it, but others point out that it scales spectacularly well with modding due to its incredibly high base damage, even if it is electric.  And just because most people don't make something takes, what, 7 fieldron doesn't mean that it's UP, just not OP.

 

My time with the Strun was biased as it is the only weapon in the game to give me motion sickness within moments of firing the first few shots.

 

Dread is another weapon I don't have, but generally speaking, slashing is worse than armor-ignore which is why I put it where I did.

I rather like Lanka. I'll admit it's not "quite" as powerful as I'd originally believed it would be, but it's still nothing to scoff at either. It has 250% the magazine size of a normal sniper clip, nearly half the reload, the charge scales with fire rate (it's around the same charge time as an arrow), and the scaling on it is absolutely phenomenal with it's 200 base damage. My problem is the fact the damn charge sound finishes before it's actually done charging and tends to throw me off when I haven't used the weapon in a while (even a simple day or two's break).

[Volt_Cruelerz]

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/10oqFLiZxS7TpkrSpshjoaCTjpqQAaNOOill-NhmuF3c/viewanalytics?pli=1

That's a random poll I saw on Reddit once that gives a fairly accurate and large evaluation on what people do/don't like.

I rather like Lanka. I'll admit it's not "quite" as powerful as I'd originally believed it would be, but it's still nothing to scoff at either. It has 250% the magazine size of a normal sniper clip, nearly half the reload, the charge scales with fire rate (it's around the same charge time as an arrow), and the scaling on it is absolutely phenomenal with it's 200 base damage. My problem is the fact the damn charge sound finishes before it's actually done charging and tends to throw me off when I haven't used the weapon in a while (even a simple day or two's break).

It's a poll, doens't mean it's correct.  There were a huge number of respondents giving opinions that are clearly flat-out wrong.

[GottFaust]

It's a poll, doens't mean it's correct. There were a huge number of respondents giving opinions that are clearly flat-out wrong.

This. Furthermore: I'm willing to bet that most of the voters don't actually have the Braton Vandal or clan research weapons, but vote randomly or based on hear-say anyway.

Edited July 1, 2013 by GottFaust

[Qynchou]

Well consider this:

Supra: 437.5 DPS

Boltor:158.4 DPS AP

 

Now, lets add serration, MS, AP damages onto the weapons:

 

Supra: 437.5*2.65*1.9=2202 damage which translates into 2202*0,6=1321 AP damage (60% piercing hit)

Boltor: 158.4*2.65*1.9=797 and then we add AP mod 797*0.6=478 then we add them 797+478=1275 AP damage

 

So basically just alone with an AP mod supra has more AP damage than the boltor.

 

Im not even including elemental mods which supra scales off from like crazy.

 

As far as braton goes, yes, it does have less AP damage than the boltor, but I still think its much more versitile than the boltor unless youre fighting level 1300 enemies, but in that case youd have a banshee and it wouldnt matter.

[Verazix]

It's a poll, doens't mean it's correct.  There were a huge number of respondents giving opinions that are clearly flat-out wrong.

This is also a poll, where people give opinions (which are just that, opinions). There's no way to state anything said here as fact outside of the numbers. Generally getting 100+ votes about something is better than the small minority that will post here, and if not, it'll be nearly the exact same. People giving their opinions about how they feel about weapons (many people hate Vulkar, I think it's an alright weapon, quite a few hate Grakata, a small minority worship it, etc.). In the end nothing changes, people will use what people like, and certain people will be better with weapons than others. Having a larger amount of opinions never hurts (even if they disagree with your own).

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Well consider this:

Supra: 437.5 DPS

Boltor:158.4 DPS AP

 

Now, lets add serration, MS, AP damages onto the weapons:

 

Supra: 437.5*2.65*1.9=2202 damage which translates into 2202*0,6=1321 AP damage (60% piercing hit)

Boltor: 158.4*2.65*1.9=797 and then we add AP mod 797*0.6=478 then we add them 797+478=1275 AP damage

 

So basically just alone with an AP mod supra has more AP damage than the boltor.

 

Im not even including elemental mods which supra scales off from like crazy.

 

As far as braton goes, yes, it does have less AP damage than the boltor, but I still think its much more versitile than the boltor unless youre fighting level 1300 enemies, but in that case youd have a banshee and it wouldnt matter.

AP is different from AI which is what the Boltor is.  AP is just an element that generally speaking does more damage than bullet damage.  AI does "true" damage as it were.

 

 

 

This is also a poll, where people give opinions (which are just that, opinions). There's no way to state anything said here as fact outside of the numbers. Generally getting 100+ votes about something is better than the small minority that will post here, and if not, it'll be nearly the exact same. People giving their opinions about how they feel about weapons (many people hate Vulkar, I think it's an alright weapon, quite a few hate Grakata, a small minority worship it, etc.). In the end nothing changes, people will use what people like, and certain people will be better with weapons than others. Having a larger amount of opinions never hurts (even if they disagree with your own).

 

And while polls have their uses, they just indicate what people think.  Just because people think the Brandal is good doesn't mean it is.  It used to be top-tier until it got nerfed overly hard.  Now it's subpar.

Edited July 1, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[Slifar]

I'm personally of the opinion that MOST of the guns are actually pretty close in terms of OVERALL performance, barring bugs and a few special cases (Burston....)

 

I also feel that making these tier lists brings the problem of people forming opinions with no personal experience, or very little.

 

For example, in the tier list above, the Grakata is stated as being bottom tier. However, once a Grakata is rank 30 and properly modded, it actually can output DPS exceeding that of most primary weapons. It's ammo economy is still strange, of course, but overall I don't feel it's quite appropriate to appear to paint it as such a garbage weapon. It has it's uses and is overall about as useful as any other weapon in the long run with a proper loadout.

 

Likewise, the Dread has, for whatever reason, been said to be strictly inferior to the Paris simply because it does not have armor ignore, despite the fact that it has far greater damage, crit chance, and crit damage, and the only enemies in the game where the lack of armor ignore could really be an issue are Ancients, as everything else has freakishly large head hitboxes. Plus if you wish to use either weapon for a general-use weapon you'd need Thunderbolt anyways, at which point it becomes more efficient to simply use uncharged shots to proc Thunderbolt, which does explosion-type damage, which ignores armor. So, when fully modded, the only actual time the two need to compete (generally) is when sniping/picking off single targets, which the Dread is generally far more effective at due to the nature of headshots and its superior damage and much lower falloff.

 

Also the fact that people would put down a Gorgon leads me to think that the vast majority of people have either not used a gorgon, or play in such a way as to not allow the gorgon to reach its full potential, as it has one of the higher DPS's in the game while still maintaining a pretty solid ammo economy. It's a very solid weapon, though it too has it's drawbacks.

 

Plus, it's kind of hard to judge a weapon without using other weapons, as they're all generally balanced with the fact that you WILL have a secondary weapon in mind.

 

And yes, I am aware that someone is going to go ballistic because I have said this lol

[Qynchou]

AP is different from AI which is what the Boltor is.  AP is just an element that generally speaking does more damage than bullet damage.  AI does "true" damage as it were.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And while polls have their uses, they just indicate what people think.  Just because people think the Brandal is good doesn't mean it is.  It used to be top-tier until it got nerfed overly hard.  Now it's subpar.

Youre right. AI - deals damage as dps, AP - 150% to armored units, which heavies and grineer are, so yeah, supra is even more superior then.

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I'm personally of the opinion that MOST of the guns are actually pretty close in terms of OVERALL performance, barring bugs and a few special cases (Burston....)

 

I also feel that making these tier lists brings the problem of people forming opinions with no personal experience, or very little.

 

For example, in the tier list above, the Grakata is stated as being bottom tier. However, once a Grakata is rank 30 and properly modded, it actually can output DPS exceeding that of most primary weapons. It's ammo economy is still strange, of course, but overall I don't feel it's quite appropriate to appear to paint it as such a garbage weapon. It has it's uses and is overall about as useful as any other weapon in the long run with a proper loadout.

 

Likewise, the Dread has, for whatever reason, been said to be strictly inferior to the Paris simply because it does not have armor ignore, despite the fact that it has far greater damage, crit chance, and crit damage, and the only enemies in the game where the lack of armor ignore could really be an issue are Ancients, as everything else has freakishly large head hitboxes. Plus if you wish to use either weapon for a general-use weapon you'd need Thunderbolt anyways, at which point it becomes more efficient to simply use uncharged shots to proc Thunderbolt, which does explosion-type damage, which ignores armor. So, when fully modded, the only actual time the two need to compete (generally) is when sniping/picking off single targets, which the Dread is generally far more effective at due to the nature of headshots and its superior damage and much lower falloff.

 

Also the fact that people would put down a Gorgon leads me to think that the vast majority of people have either not used a gorgon, or play in such a way as to not allow the gorgon to reach its full potential, as it has one of the higher DPS's in the game while still maintaining a pretty solid ammo economy. It's a very solid weapon, though it too has it's drawbacks.

 

Plus, it's kind of hard to judge a weapon without using other weapons, as they're all generally balanced with the fact that you WILL have a secondary weapon in mind.

 

And yes, I am aware that someone is going to go ballistic because I have said this lol

The Burston's really not that bad and would be a decent weapon if it weren't for the frame rate bug.  TTK is already effectively instant, it's fire rate is just wonky due to the bug.

 

I've used all but four of the primaries: Dread, Lanka, Flux, and Grakata.

 

The Grakata is a short-range SMG that lives off crits.  It consumes ammo at a rate that is frankly stupid which is where a lot of its problems come from.  In terms of DPS at short range when completely maxed and forma'd, it's not bad, but it's not a gun you want because of the terrible ammo economy.  If you're going for DPS though, why not get a Gorgon or Supra?

 

The Dread does do more damage, but the armor ignore is still a very relevant differentiation.  When talking about weapons that fire as infrequently as bows do, you have to make sure your target always goes down in one shot which is where the AI is handy.

 

I didn't put down the Gorgon.  It's a solid weapon and its placement in my list reflected that.  It's a good weapon to keep around.  Not really my style, but it is definitely good.

[Verazix]

And while polls have their uses, they just indicate what people think. Just because people think the Brandal is good doesn't mean it is. It used to be top-tier until it got nerfed overly hard. Now it's subpar.

Generally tier listings are biased based on the elitist minority. It's hard to come up with actual numbers in a game that requires you to think reactively, and has dynamic differences from one round to the next. Not to mention weapon synergies with abilities (Torid and Vortex/Bastille, Venom and Flux Rifle, Sonar and Latron/Snipers, etc). I guess you could break it down to what's best all around, but even then it serves little purpose outside of what "you" (the people who make the tier listing) find best per situation, which could be different one to the next unless one weapon is just truly too good (which this game had done pretty well in avoiding until the new research weapons came out, after the Hek/Gorgon nerfs).

I guess in the end I feel a tier listing in a game like this will hold no bearings except to show what's truly too powerful, and even then it'll either end up the opinions of those who can't see past their own nose, or based on numbers in a "specific" situation. If you can somehow account for every single situation, mission, and weakness/strength (synergies/ammo efficiency), more power to you (without it being your opinion on how much it weighs into things). I just believe it'll be nigh impossible (but I'm totally fine with you proving me wrong).

[Volt_Cruelerz]

Generally tier listings are biased based on the elitist minority. It's hard to come up with actual numbers in a game that requires you to think reactively, and has dynamic differences from one round to the next. Not to mention weapon synergies with abilities (Torid and Vortex/Bastille, Venom and Flux Rifle, Sonar and Latron/Snipers, etc). I guess you could break it down to what's best all around, but even then it serves little purpose outside of what "you" (the people who make the tier listing) find best per situation, which could be different one to the next unless one weapon is just truly too good (which this game had done pretty well in avoiding until the new research weapons came out, after the Hek/Gorgon nerfs).

I guess in the end I feel a tier listing in a game like this will hold no bearings except to show what's truly too powerful, and even then it'll either end up the opinions of those who can't see past their own nose, or based on numbers in a "specific" situation. If you can somehow account for every single situation, mission, and weakness/strength (synergies/ammo efficiency), more power to you (without it being your opinion on how much it weighs into things). I just believe it'll be nigh impossible (but I'm totally fine with you proving me wrong).

I do try to comprehensively include all things within reason.  Obviously DPS, TTK, and any special properties are king.  Next come things like ammo efficiency and accuracy and how they play into the above.

 

And if you disagree with the listing I provided, feel free to explain what you believe should move up or down.

[Dasmir]

Acrid is missing, its Tier 1  I know its a pistol but it should be counted as a Primary, its large in size and has no issues working as a Primary

 

and sorry but Lanka must be moved down to Tier 4 at least

"outshone by others of the same type" counts pretty much all guns when compared to lanka.. pretty sure latron is a better sniper

Vulkar easily outshines it, able to shoot 3 times in the same time it takes Lanka to shoot once, with better accuracy.

"too situational" - is what I would call the Lanka.... I have never seen a Lanka till I made one, this has to tell you something?

A formaed, Potatoed Weapon that can't clear a T3 solo is not "can be used to great effect"  Its Situational at best.

 

Strun is also a fantastic shotgun, it does 130 damage 10 less than Hek at 140, but it fire 2 more shots, and its very easy to get, I have cleared t3's with it no issues, and while hek is a direct upgrade, this is still a Decent gun should be Tier 3

 

Dread is also considered a good sniper weapon with some insane crit damage on weak points, the argument goes on an on Dread Vs Paris but I do think dread should be moved up to Tier 3, it can rip out 7k crits against all factions

 

Acrid is god tier, nothing can stop a acrid.

[Verazix]

I do try to comprehensively include all things within reason.  Obviously DPS, TTK, and any special properties are king.  Next come things like ammo efficiency and accuracy and how they play into the above.

 

And if you disagree with the listing I provided, feel free to explain what you believe should move up or down.

If you'd read what I'd said, you'd see more that I believe "tier listing" is too generic to truly encompass everything in the game due to the dynamics of it all. There's a vast difference between "high end defense missions" "Tier 3 Void Missions" and "everything else." I think it's great that you're trying so hard, I'm just stating that this isn't a sandbag style game where we only have a few stats, since the entire functionality of each weapon can be so different.

Flux Rifle is phenomenal for Infested Defense missions, if used in conjunction with Venom it is probably vastly overpowered (and has no ammo efficiency problems this way, you should try it some time). Lanka/Vulkar/Snipetron make T3 voids a joke since they can one shot even the heaviest enemies there on a crit (which they crit 50% of their shots properly modded). Shotguns (particularly Hek) typically outperform most other weapons in run and gun play styles. Weapons with AP/AI base are typically amazing for Grineer/high wave defenses, but aren't any better than anything else outside that.

[Dasmir]

Also you can even mod a pillow into a killing machine, so tiers arent that accurate.