[RIVEN MODS] The Kuva issue

[-NR-Dabears]

Hey.

So, this topic is about the increasing Kuva fee when you cycle the same Riven mod over and over again. As more information about them is being gathered, I already think some things should be changed. And what I understood from the Dev Workshop post this is not mentioned there.

As you know, the Kuva fee of the mod you cycle increases everytime you cycle your Riven mod. Most people don't know that the equation for this is 100*(amount of cycles-1)²+900. So, the problem with that equation is that the Kuva fee increases ridiculously fast for someone who aims to get the best possible mod (or just the mod he wants).

For example: If you wanted to get the Cernos Visi-Critaton or the Cernos Visi-Critacan you would have a really low probablity of getting that mod, since the amount of other possible outcomes of the cycle is just too high. So if you would cycle that mod about 20 times (which already is a challenge), then you would have a fee of 37000 Kuva for the 21st cycle.

And now just imagine you have to grind 37000 Kuva for just the low chance of getting that mod.
You normally get 600 Kuva (might also be a little bit more or less, but we will use 600 here, since it's kinda the average) per run, so that would be atleast 62 runs. Then you also have to consider that the Kuva Siphon also has a certain spawn-chance which is around 30% (according to some user researches).
You can use the Charm ability from Kavats and some resource boosters to farm it faster, but that still would make it a ridiculous high amount of time that you'd have to invest for a proper mod.


To be honest, this kinda feels like you are "forced" to get a new Riven mod of the same weapon type which hasn't been cycled that often, just to be able to cycle it more often by yourself.
I suggest a new equation for it, one that does increase by a certain value in a linear equation.

What do you think about it? Let me know about your opinion below.



I also got a feedback topic regarding the Zarr. Feel free to take a look at it.

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by -NR-Dabears1337

[PerishedFraud]

yes. Kuva mods literally don't need this silly cost scaling. Just keep the cost as 1k permanently. Why ruin freedom of a limited resource?

[low1991]

Problem which might be against what DE planned for 'balance'

1. A consistent 900 KUVA for cycle, will rather encourage players to farm n cycle for 'meta' mod for old weapon. Possibly making them the new meta weapon for so-called end game. What DE want to for old weapon to near par, not above current weapon.
2. U have no idea what's the upper and lower limit of the stats of Riven mod could go, once these information are release to public, by some method. All players whom are hardcore will farm and rush for that specific stats.

[-NR-Dabears]

6 minutes ago, BeeOverlord said:

yes. Kuva mods literally don't need this silly cost scaling. Just keep the cost as 1k permanently. Why ruin freedom of a limited resource?

An increasing fee is fine, but it shouldnt increase that extremely, in my opinion. I rather thought about something like additional 50-150 Kuva for every cycle.
 

[NinjaKitsune56]

6 minutes ago, -NR-Dabears1337 said:

An increasing fee is fine, but it shouldnt increase that extremely, in my opinion. I rather thought about something like additional 50-150 Kuva for every cycle.
 

This would work... And anyone saying you need a specific Riven mod stat-set down the line would be a moron... even if you got the same stats, odds are you would have either better or worse numbers on those stats. Needless to say... getting the same benefits period would be hard... getting those stats with the same or better numbers? Ridiculous.

[-NR-Dabears]

2 minutes ago, low1991 said:

Problem which might be against what DE planned for 'balance'

1. A consistent 900 KUVA for cycle, will rather encourage players to farm n cycle for 'meta' mod for old weapon. Possibly making them the new meta weapon for so-called end game. What DE want to for old weapon to near par, not above current weapon.
2. U have no idea what's the upper and lower limit of the stats of Riven mod could go, once these information are release to public, by some method. All players whom are hardcore will farm and rush for that specific stats.

Regarding point 1: I didn't say that an increasing Kuva fee was bad, what I meant is that it shouldnt increase that drastically.

Regarding point 2: The limits of the percentages of the stats are not known surely yet, I agree with that. But we already know how the mods are "constructed". I will just drop you a Wiki link, take a look at the tables, then you know what I mean. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Riven_Mods

Since we already know about the Prefix-CoreSuffix thing by now, players will start to search and farm for those specific mods. However, farming them is a task that might be impossible to complete for most people, since it's too time-consuming compared to all other functions in the game. Searching them by trading will increase the chance of getting it, but they are expensive like hell and people still have to get the Riven mods for sale in the first place.

[AnemoneMeer]

IMO, the fee increase should be removed and replaced with an escalation of challenge difficulty. Move the scaling fee over to being used to instant unlock the mod. This still prevents infinite rerolling, but does so through demanding more skill instead of more time, much like mastery tests (though there is still a time element, Kuva does take effort to get)

[-NR-Dabears]

1 minute ago, NinjaKitsune56 said:

This would work... And anyone saying you need a specific Riven mod stat-set down the line would be a moron... even if you got the same stats, odds are you would have either better or worse numbers on those stats. Needless to say... getting the same benefits period would be hard... getting those stats with the same or better numbers? Ridiculous.

Yeah, as I said the probability of getting the mod you are searching for is absolutely low. I didn't even include the probability of getting a unwanted negative-effect on the mod, so that's decreasing it even more.

[-NR-Dabears]

1 minute ago, AnemoneMeer said:

IMO, the fee increase should be removed and replaced with an escalation of challenge difficulty. Move the scaling fee over to being used to instant unlock the mod. This still prevents infinite rerolling, but does so through demanding more skill instead of more time, much like mastery tests (though there is still a time element, Kuva does take effort to get)

That would also work, but then some challenges would have to be reworked to suit that properly. Then we also need a proper scaling for the escalation, so the challenge difficulty itself doesnt escalate.

[NinjaKitsune56]

Just now, -NR-Dabears1337 said:

Yeah, as I said the probability of getting the mod you are searching for is absolutely low. I didn't even include the probability of getting a unwanted negative-effect on the mod, so that's decreasing it even more.

Very true... then you have what I like to call "Riven Trolling", where you get something completely useless for the weapon it's locked to... Like [+Crit Chance] for a Hind.

[low1991]

21 minutes ago, AnemoneMeer said:

IMO, the fee increase should be removed and replaced with an escalation of challenge difficulty. 

Example please. 

Is 5 head shot (Killed by a shot to the head) during a single aim glide hard? I had an idea, you bounce on Vban' bounce and assisted by Mag' bullet attraction (from knowledge, shooting on top of circle = headshot)

What is the 'challenge difficulty'? From what i know of challenge & impossible, it's a thin line.

ie, For players without Irava, to do [Survival in lvl30+ without killing anyone with bleeding key equipped, and not downed/die], it's down right impossible. But excluding the [Downed/dying] part, it's can be a challenge. 

And a (made-up) [Survival in 30+ for 20mins without killing anyone with hobbled key equipped] it's a challenge for players with some idea or concept of know-how, but impossible for those without.