[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 2!

[AXCrusnik]

9 minutes ago, Shichibukai88 said:

I dont understand how ppl fail to search forums for threads that have been already made...especially official ones...

To be fair... dev workshop part 2 is less than an hour old.

[Mekyo]

44 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- Kuva Cycling costs have been reduced significantly.

Thank you, that's a relief.

47 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- When Cycling a Riven with Kuva, you can now choose to "Accept" or "Decline" a Cycle result.

That sounds awesome ! Good way to manage the RNG for perfectionists !

[Zrima]

While I'm kinda happy with those changes, I'm still concerned with the kuva price increase with the cycling. I mean, there's no cap, and paying more and more does not mean I have a better chance to get something useful.

Also, the riven mods are hard to come by, now that Sorties can give the same rewards over multiple days. I don't feel very rewarded when I get 2000 endo from 3 difficult missions, I can get the same thing by staying a while in excavation. I really think we need a sure way to get at least 1 riven mod per week.

And have you seen the trade chat lately? Good riven mods are now more expensive than a vaulted warframe set. I'll even say that poor mods for good weapons are really expensive, because there's not enough of those mods, and everybody wants a little more power to their already powerful weapons.

 

I want to like this system, I want to say in sortie : "Oh, this guy has a flux rifle, and he does as much damage as that guy with that tonkor, his build must be pretty good".

But currently, riven mods are often very weak / not useful (zoom, multiple non damaging stats, high negative stat).

I really hope you'll find a solution for the situation, this system is interesting. It's just too random so far, and the market prices have exploded because the most powerful weapon have gained even more power from it.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Zrima

[LightBriite]

As I'd previously stated on other posts, I'd like to see these stats be no more or no less than 3 stats per riven mod, one being a dmg boost stat, the other being either QoL, elemental, or Mulstishot, and the last being a posible negative/down side, maybe less ammo per mag, or less zoom in etc. Basically make these rivens be a Corrupted Augment mod for weapons, something to give life into older discarded weapons, while also having a corrupted aspect to level out the benefits. Another interesting concept I've heard was being able to pay down Kuva to lock in certain stats that you're happy with and once you lock down that stat there's no changing the stat or resets, and you can do this for the two positive stats while the negative stat will not be able to be totally RNG.

[ADirtyMonk]

This still doesnt change the fact that this is pointless extra work that can be fixed by tuning the base stats and MR requirements of a weapon and/or giving the weapon useful and interesting alternate functions and/or allowing us to use resources to upgrade weapon stats of low MR/bad weapons. These mod's don't do anything interesting or have new effects. They just have a chance to compact several existing mods into an RNG bundle that just happens to have a lower overall point cost. So its nothing more than good old power creep.

Ignoring the fact that these mods are a terrible idea: Rejecting or accepting a roll is much better than what we currently have but we also need the option to lock in stats and to specify what weapon we want the mod to roll for in exchange for making the Riven mod permanently untradable. Because there is so much RNG involved there will be people who will unlock/roll tens of times and get abysmal rolls each time for weapon they don't want and lets be honest unless the "disposition" for a weapon like the Braton means it rolls stats several times higher than a weapon like the Tonkor, no one is going to want to trade for Riven mods of certain weapons. Please take some inspiration from Diablo 3's enchantress system which gives the player some measure of control over their equipment.

The 15 riven capacity cap needs to go as well if they are going to roll for every single weapon eventually. Especially if DE's plan to make underused weapons "viable" with these mods pans out. Personally between the hundreds of weapons in Warframe there are definitely more than 15 that I would like to use if they were made viable.

It also needs to be clarified: After cycle 10 does the cycle cost cap? 3.6k kuva is anywhere between 3 to 6 siphons depending on whether or not one has a booster and seeing as the fastest way to farm siphons is to run capture missions, this is going to burn payers out fast.

And what happens to the people who dropped thousands of plat on god rolls? As a F2P game you cant just piss off the whales which is definitely going to happen if their 3000 plat 100% damage/crit/crit chance tonkor/simulor mod drop in stats significantly. Grandfathering in current Riven mods and making them untradeable is one possible solution I guess but the best rolls of these mods are so insanely powerful that a small number of players will have an enormous advantage over new/unlucky/poor players.

Also, may I recommend you guys seriously consider a PTR? Stupid situations like this happen when you dont thoroughly test your ideas or even worse, and more likely what is happening, have someone that doesn't understand the game testing your ideas.

Edited November 17, 2016 by ADirtyMonk

[PoisonHD]

55 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- You will only have to Unveil a Riven Mod one time: on first discovery.
- When Cycling a Riven with Kuva, you can now choose to "Accept" or "Decline" a Cycle result.
- Kuva Cycling costs have been reduced significantly.

Thank you for these three especially.

[Desperada312]

I personally like this idea. I like the whole concept of it and am really excited to see what this does for those weapons I never thought I would pick up again. As someone who has almost every weapon I ever built still sitting in my inventory this could really freshen the game up. Ignore the whiners who are mad they can't get their 8 million damage modifier for their tonkor spamcannon. I think the proposed changes are a stepi n the right direction to making this a fair balance between effort vs rewards. 

[DarkOvion]

The 'reward' for reaching the Endgame, should not be more grind.

[DarkOvion]

32 minutes ago, morningstar999 said:

so getting a random mod that may be rubbish which you then have to grind over and over to try and get lucky with is our new end-game?

your mistaking lots of pointless grind for content again. please, please stop this. 

there needs to be a balance between grind and fun, 100% RNG does not do this. 

at least when farming for prime parts you get to try and increase your chances! (even if it is poor) with RNG mods you wont be able to do that at all, so it makes it all the more worse. 

pure luck is not something we as players should keep having to rely upon. 

 

Basically this.

[Shion963]

54 minutes ago, Phatose said:

Anything being talked about on the side of making them more obtainable, or able to change what weapon they're for?

Got one for the Daikyu - which I detest.  And trying to get another mod is frustrating, to say the least, with the low chance and one roll per day sortie only acquisition method.

Can we have a one-time refusal of the initial unveiling to reroll with weapon included?

I understand and support the reason that you can't outright choose what it's for, but unveiling a Paracyst mod when you never ever plan to make the weapon isn't gonna suddenly make me use the hideous thing. Getting it for one of the multitudes of weapons I've made, maxed, and kept would.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Shion963

[LightBriite]

1 minute ago, DarkOvion said:

The 'reward' for reaching the Endgame, should not be more grind.

What in the world are you talking about, there is no real end-game. We legit have these OP mods and no proper end-game to see them in real action.

[7grims]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

We should certainly take some time to speak to the doom that RNG Mods being a sign of nefarious dealings.

DE, once again:

How will you EVER FIX MANDATORY MODS, and introduce damage 3.0, when riven mods block that from ever happening?????

How will you remove serrations, multishot, etc mods, if riven can in 1 single mod be a serration a multishot etc???

 

Are you scamming players, to chase the carrot at the end of the stick?

Because, whenever you will make mandatory mods useless, unworthy, non-needed, you will also have to make riven mods equally useless, unworthy, non-needed.

 

Realize riven mods, are immensely armful for the game!

Remove them! Or make them whit utility stats only!

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by 7grims

[SamuraiPizza]

I'm... I'm...I might be in board with this.

Go on, go on... Let's see where this system leads. 

[wtrmlnjuc]

I think RNG is fine, but the problem with it is that it makes players lose that sense of control. Something a little more tuneable would be better than something that's completely random.

[CJBael]

I really wish there was another way of getting them, not had one from Sorties and the only one I got (reward) is for a weapon I don't even have, while others have a few already from Sorties, it's just a sucky way to get them since many won't likely get one no matter how many Sorties we run due to dumb luck.

[DarkOvion]

15 minutes ago, LightBriite said:

What in the world are you talking about, there is no real end-game. We legit have these OP mods and no proper end-game to see them in real action.

Ahem:

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

RNG Mods in Warframe!?
We should certainly take some time to speak to the doom that RNG Mods being a sign of nefarious dealings. While it may pre-date many accounts, Warframe already had RNG Mods in the game. In fact RNG Mods used to be the only type of Mod you could find for Upgrading your gear. We switched to a static Mod system in Update 7, and now 12 Major Updates later we are revisiting the concept with completely different intentions: an End-Game option rather than the only path. 

Digital Extremes are referring to the Riven Mods as an 'end game option'.

But as you point out - there isn't an end game, just more grind. That is your 'reward' for getting to MR21/22.

[Mak_Gohae]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

RNG Mods in Warframe!?
We should certainly take some time to speak to the doom that RNG Mods being a sign of nefarious dealings. While it may pre-date many accounts, Warframe already had RNG Mods in the game. In fact RNG Mods used to be the only type of Mod you could find for Upgrading your gear. We switched to a static Mod system in Update 7, and now 12 Major Updates later we are revisiting the concept with completely different intentions: an End-Game option rather than the only path. 

Thanks for reading, stay tuned for more updates!

I remember that!

And that was the reason to continue to do OG defense missions. So we can get more mods and hope for a good stat mod.

[BBOTAA]

59 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

RNG Mods in Warframe!?
We should certainly take some time to speak to the doom that RNG Mods being a sign of nefarious dealings. While it may pre-date many accounts, Warframe already had RNG Mods in the game. In fact RNG Mods used to be the only type of Mod you could find for Upgrading your gear. We switched to a static Mod system in Update 7, and now 12 Major Updates later we are revisiting the concept with completely different intentions: an End-Game option rather than the only path. 

Does this explain or justify the tremendous amount of rng in this mods?
....
Because the point it's not existance of rng mods, or their history in warframe, but amount of rng involved, to get one, to get one for a weapon of your liking, whatever weapon that may be and obviously if the stats even have any influence on said weapon.

I think this are the fundamental points that should be adress, that and the cycling being completly ramdom without any locking options and infinitly scaling cost of cicling.
There should be limit to the cost or you should be able to lock stats or both, not having either one of those options will render mods useless after some cicling was done and it's too much rng tied to, too expensive costs.
Sorry for any typos hope you understand it all clearly and thank you for your atention.

[Gloupi]

1 hour ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

- You will only have to Unveil a Riven Mod one time: on first discovery.

Can we have a daily / weekly with those challenges?

I really liked the idea (more than OP mods to be honest), and I'd gladly continue to do random weird challenges just for the fun of it. ^^'

 

(Also thanks for the changes, they seem quite reasonable :))

[morningstar999]

7 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

Ahem:

Digital Extremes are referring to the Riven Mods as an 'end game option'.

But as you point out - there isn't an end game, just more grind. That is your 'reward' for getting to MR21/22.

At this point i would like to earn really hard to get mods if they where guarenteed to be useful and wheren't so rng. 

The only thing i like out if the new mods is the idea of doing harder random challanges to unlock them but i want to be rewarded for doing so not get a useless mod i might have to gamble and re-roll over and over and still end up with rubbish...

It makes too much grind and doesnt give us morr content.

Edited November 17, 2016 by morningstar999

[Evers]

What aout those of us who already invested alot of Kuva into Cycling? Will we get the already invested Kuva back once the cycling cost reduces or will the Kuva we spent be lost?

I for example already cycled 7 times which would mean i would have lost around 5000 Kuva once the cycling cost reduce which are a bit more then 8 successful Kuva Syphon Runs (which are a pain to do right now).

[--Trollin--]

24 minutes ago, ADirtyMonk said:

And what happens to the people who dropped thousands of plat on god rolls? As a F2P game you cant just piss off the whales which is definitely going to happen if their 3000 plat 100% damage/crit/crit chance tonkor/simulor mod drop in stats significantly. Grandfathering in current Riven mods and making them untradeable is one possible solution I guess but the best rolls of these mods are so insanely powerful that a small number of players will have an enormous advantage over new/unlucky/poor players.

Also, may I recommend you guys seriously consider a PTR? Stupid situations like this happen when you dont thoroughly test your ideas or even worse, and more likely what is happening, have someone that doesn't understand the game testing your ideas.

Yeah, I have spent plats on some good mods, would really piss me off if they got nerfed to the ground. Just because some players got a middle finger from RNG, doesn't mean the players who got good mods should be screwed over. I would like the stats of exiting Riven mods to stay the same and make them untradeable . I don't given a damn about what DE nerf after that. 

[HyokaChan]

Quote

- 'Riven Disposition' is the way in which power level of Mods is attuned to the weapon it is generated for. Mastery Rank and Stats will factor into this attunement, so you can expect to see more powerful Rivens for less used weapons and vice versa.

This is a bad idea because this will screw out bad non-meta weapons such as Stradavar and Supra (MR 7/6) and all sniper-type/slow rof high damage weapons (even the Paris MK-1 has 60 IPS).

Please reconsider the algorithm before it even becomes a thing.

Edited November 17, 2016 by HyokaChan

[Keltik0ne]

I wonder if Sheldon will ever claim in another devstream that he's heard the complaints about too much rng, and will do something about it.

 

Although, I suppose adding more rng, WAS doing something about it :P

[ShkNBke]

*Disclaimer* This is not meant to be pessimistic or malicious in any way!

While I appreciate the effort to make progressive changes to a not so well received system I still Strongly Dislike this system. What confused me the most when I got my riven mod was why it wasn't for my operator? And here is why. When you complete Second Dream and choose a focus school you are then given a lens to put on a preferred weapon or Warframe to earn focus via affinity and progress in your focus discipline. And while the focus system itself is a somewhat "failed" system (and yes i Know DE Scott wants to pull it out by the roots and have another look at it) you are always progressing through your focus trees to maximize the effectiveness of your focus. cool

Now we have TWW and up until the revelation of the Riven Mods I loved the update, it had an awesome quest, new weapons and cosmetics and game mechanic with our operators, so what do we get when we complete they quest?....a damage mod...for our rifles? We already have those right? Why do we need more? I had expected that this "Riven Mod" that I had acquired was for my operator, I mean it makes sense right? Introduce a game mechanic where you can take your operator into a mission and use the abilities learned in TWW and here is a way to help progress your operator in addition to focus. I mean thats what you guys did with Second Dream as I stated before.

And I dislike the reason that this system exists to make lesser weapons more used or perform better, you can do that without mods, you can nerf or buff weapon stats to push them up or down in power, I mean you just did this with the Zarr and other weapons in the past...so I feel that's a BS reason to introduce this system. And the little sub note about how RNG mods pre-dated most accounts on WF currently makes me wonder why they were removed in the first place and were replaced with the system we have had for a long time....so why did it come back? As far as I know no one asked for more damage mods for our weapons, and I know Damage 3.0 is somewhere on the horizon and I imagine that it will change how we mod our weapons greatly....and if thats the case again why is this system here??

DE I love playing your game I really do and when stuff like this happens it makes me nervous, I hope/expect to hear a lot about why this decision was made on the next DEV Stream.

Edited November 17, 2016 by ShkNBke