[Spoiler] Dev Workshop: New Mods Part 2!

[ChronoJXF]

So I'm kinda hoping that, doing more than 10 cycle will have the same, flat Kuva requirement from 10th cycle. while Kuva spawning is moderately balanced with it.

[Sannidor]

7 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Yup! We want to get it better set up on Rifles first before we expand, which is why they have had such a limited release so far.

What about Riven mods for sentinel weapon? Since when these are considered primaries? 

Will they be retrieved from future drop tables or removed? 

Also, will people who rolled several times with current kuva cost be compensated?

[kadun]

Too Old ; Don't Care

[Sakaguchi]

Good Work.

 

Keep it up

 

[Zarozian]

You guys are too late.

All that Kuva I wasted.....

Can I hope for Kuva compensation? ;<....

Like pleaase? I am so very tired from farming.... ;<

Edited November 17, 2016 by Zarozian

[EXlineEX]

Yeah, sounds like a good idea. :100: :joy: :ok_hand:

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Some of this Dev Workshop will be a continuation from Part 1 (https://forums.warframe.com/topic/719453-spoiler-dev-workshop-new-mods/), but the rest will cover some more clear changes coming to Riven Mods.

 

• Any word on removing the 15 mod cap?
• I know she reinforced the idea in dev workshop part 1 but do they really intend on keeping it that way?
• Are we really supposed to risk getting banned with alt mod holding accounts, or simply destroy Rivens for a whopping 23 Endo?
• No word on refund for lost kuva either?
• Rejecting or accepting a roll is much better than what we currently have but we need the option to lock in stats, in exchange for making the Riven mod permanently untradeable
• After cycle 10 does the cycle cost cap? 3600 kuva is around 6 siphons no booster, and this is going to burn players out fast, especially if it keeps increasing
• What happens to the people who dropped thousands of plat on god rolls? As a F2P game you cant just piss off the whales - which is definitely going to happen - if their 5000 plat 100% damage/crit/crit chance tonkor/simulor/soma mod drop in stats significantly

Overall sounds like DE is in too deep and is making it a lot worse

[Drakhnite]

Hi, don't read all the post before but why don't just make kuva cost for rerolling Riven mods just 900 not an increase cost for each attempt ?

We can have approximatively 600 +- kuvas each time for one siphon succesfully kick^^ With 900 kuvas for a reroll we need 3 siphons for 2 rerolls... And this new ressource could be use for another things later I suppose.

Argon dissapear why not, Nitain in alert or luckily in game ok but kuva can be a little less harsh to get. Thanks

[Vicious_Vipa]

1 hour ago, AzrielAsheron said:

Loving these changes, can we all calm down in the future and let the beasts do their work? The fixes and changes will come to us, like an answer to a prayer.

nope - (some of the desired) changes will only come after the community has given their feedback

Edited November 17, 2016 by Vicious_Vipa

[3thereal]

8 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

Part 1 Primer: Riven Disposition.
You may recall we talked about 'Riven Disposition' on Monday. Here's the repeated information in a nutshell: 


- This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way, and not increase the power of the top tier ones.
"This means that existing and future Rivens will have stats that skew based on a given weapon.  "                

Very, very simply put if you're looking to bring old weapons into the forefront you need to balance them against top tier ones. What's a 1000% Crit Chance mod going for the panthera which has a 0% crit chance, absolutely nothing. What is a 1000% percent damage modifier going to do to a damage that does 1 damage? It will add 10 damage to it. What will it do to a weapon that does 10 damage it will make it go up to 110 damage. You see mods working off of base stats simply doesn't work well even if the base stats are trash. If you're really trying to bring new life to old weapons, balance them against a damage baseline set against the top tier. No amount of band-aid mod is going to fix that, you need to actually sit down and balance your weapons, otherwise you add a level of "balancing" over an inherently unbalanced layer which will cause it to fail.

[3thereal]

What about the problems of all stats being randomized. This is one of the biggest short falls of the current system, how are you guys going to fix that?

[TheKurtiStryke]

- This modification will also affect existing Riven Mods to reflect our desire to give new life to ‘discarded’ weapons in a unique way

 

ok,but,instead of create  new mods that can donate new life at the discarded weapons,what about "Balance or improve the discarded weapons???(like the old ones)??.

[Volinus7]

They feign ignorance and let this farce continue.

DE is not much different from NCsoft and Nexon now eh?

You traded people trust for a short burst of money from knee jerked whales.

Riven mod as a content is hollow and improves nothing in gameplay. How many more layers of powercreep will you put in this game until you're satisfied? These shackles you used to bind players will drive many away because it's too shabby it's like 3 months long homework that you finished in just 3 hours.

 

DE if you give up on players who waited so long for balanced and fun gameplay, they will give up on this game too.

[sharkie_]

Hey guys! I just wanted to say that these all sound like some GREAT changes and that I have the utmost confidence that you guys will do a GREAT job implementing them! I'm super excited for these well executed changes! Everybody had better buckle up and get ready for the funtown express!

[Sebastianx]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

• Rejecting or accepting a roll is much better than what we currently have but we need the option to lock in stats, in exchange for making the Riven mod permanently untradeable

 

That, I like. Making the mod untradeable after you first open it would mean DE can give us more options and steer the system in a direction that would help us more easily get what we wish, making it so you don't need to really spend plat to get the mod for the weapon you want, as is the case right now.

Also stat locking as I said in a post above, yes please.

7 minutes ago, Drakhnite said:

Hi, don't read all the post before but why don't just make kuva cost for rerolling Riven mods just 900 not an increase cost for each attempt ?

We can have approximatively 600 +- kuvas each time for one siphon succesfully kick^^ With 900 kuvas for a reroll we need 3 siphons for 2 rerolls... And this new ressource could be use for another things later I suppose.

Indeed, seeing how many re-rolls you need for even a remotely decent set of stats, making it cost more than 500 even seems like pure torture. It's very fun and fresh to constantly re-roll stats and find out what might be right around the corner, giving that feeling of "1 more Kuva run...1 more re-roll and i'll probably have the best weapon EVER". We need that encouragement in order to continue re-rolling, it's rather frustrating using 3k Kuva to get an even worse set of stats for the mod than previously and now to try again you need to spend 4k Kuva??? It's really demoralizing to say the least.

[Kagisnad]

still no details on how existing mods may be skewed? percentage, or stats themselves?

i'm anxious because i have three mods i'm very happy with, one of which is for amprex. will that one get shot in the shins? crit dmg / crit chance / heat... a powerful enough combo.

[ograzzt]

1 hour ago, AzrielAsheron said:

Loving these changes, can we all calm down in the future and let the beasts do their work? The fixes and changes will come to us, like an answer to a prayer.

Where are my focus system changes? Still beta inside beta?

[matrixEXO]

Like the idea of changing up the way Riven mods are currently working. But, I'm going to nit-pick on two things. Didn't say it last thread so I'm going to say it here.

---

1) Riven Mods not incentivizing 'interesting' buffs but rather sometimes 'unusable' buffs.

The problem with the current Riven mods is that it applies buffs based off the weapon's base stats. That means that a Riven mod that gives +150% crit chance on a weapon that only has a 5% base crit chance value will not see a significant enough benefit to call it even usable. It's also why all the mods benefit the 'better' or 'meta' weapon more than the 'worse' or 'underpowered' weapons. Value differences doesn't matter when it takes a base value that's already bad. Eventually, people will be finding buffs for stats that benefit the weapon more, like Damage on Daikyu, rather than buffs that could be an interesting buff and changes up gameplay (IE: Crit Chance on Daikyu). These Riven mods should include base stat buffs like +20% base Critical Chance. Such a radical chance should improve certain weapon designs and shift the gameplay of weapons that couldn't previously do a certain thing into being able to do certain things.

That's not to say that these current reliant-based buffs couldn't be bumped up to a high enough value that would eventually make it more viable (IE: 1000% crit chance multiplier on a 5% will make it 55% crit chance) but it doesn't solve the main issue which is that it's undervalued at most points until it reaches very high values.

---

2) Stat buffs are not 'interesting buffs'.

I think you should know this already but stat buffs are and will never be 'interesting buffs'. Rather, effects that change up gameplay or change the weapon itself up like the Thundermiter from the Conclave would be a much better version of 'interesting buffs'. Interesting buffs sometimes need not be powerful but just redefines a weapon by altering part, if not all, of it's core gameplay design. IE: A bow mod effect that has a chance to put the target to sleep. Such a radical shift in design and eventually the way one uses the weapon will always classify these kinds of buffs as 'interesting'. Viable? Maybe not but at least these kinds of buffs are actually interesting.

---

 

EDIT: On another topic, will we be refunded for the excess Kuva spent in rerolling after the changes or will it be lost for good?

Edited November 17, 2016 by matrixEXO

[MuninDeShyra]

Like these changes very much, but sadly they dont influence me in any way as i wasnt able to get any riven mods so far thanks to the poor sortie rewards... You should check into your sortie drop tables and stop the constant stream of endo up my bumhole.

[(NSW)Estalior]

@[DE]Rebecca What about primes and their counterparts? I used soma lots so its on the top of my stats. So will soma prime be affected too, since it's not that high up my stats list?

[Opherie]

Any plans to allow Sentinel Weapon Rivens to work on all sentinel weapons? :( No %stat is going to make Deth Machine Rifle ever viable :/ can't risk modding sentinel weapons anyway due mod sharing confusion. Or at least give flat +20 +70 stats on sentinel Rivens.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Opherie

[PanicPrime]

9 hours ago, ADirtyMonk said:

And what happens to the people who dropped thousands of plat on god rolls? As a F2P game you cant just piss off the whales which is definitely going to happen if their 3000 plat 100% damage/crit/crit chance tonkor/simulor mod drop in stats significantly. Grandfathering in current Riven mods and making them untradeable is one possible solution I guess but the best rolls of these mods are so insanely powerful that a small number of players will have an enormous advantage over new/unlucky/poor players.

 

I wonder how many people will stop playing though when they discover that less than 1% of the community got access to uniquely powerful mods that are no longer available? Finding out that other players gained power from a lottery and you will never be able to be on their level is a major turn off.

Will the rage from a few impulsive buyers with no self control be as financially damaging as the reputation the game will get if they leave those mods alone? It's exactly the kind of scenario that will have people saying "meh, I quit because nothing I can get is going to be as good as a mod that got patched out."
It's what people will tell their friends about for the next year in order to ward them away from even bothering starting the game. Why bother investing at all if your sub-standard status is already predetermined?

 

On the other hand, I'm probably what would be considered a whale. I've bought every prime pack (except loki and vauban because I was on a break at those times), and would have bought founder if I was around in time to do so. I've bought plenty of platinum in addition, and most of the content on my account was bought from trade rather than farmed.

Yet, I didn't pay 1k+ platinum for experimental mods, because while I may be financially stable, I'm not stupid. People like me will absolutely turn off immediately and plan on giving DE no more money until this has gone through.
That isn't a "threat" to DE, just giving you some perspective on what why losing some whales isn't necessarily a bad thing, if the alternative is losing another group who believe in fairness and equality.

 

Just to be clear on the "no more money" statement, if DE do the right thing and keep this game fair and equal for everyone, with every player getting a fair chance at the same power level, then I'll absolutely continue throwing money at them so long as I'm having fun, but my criteria for having fun is the belief that I have as much chance as anyone else at being the best player in the game in terms of gear power.

Edited November 17, 2016 by ChasePanic

[Minjas]

[Lyravain]

@[DE]Rebecca

In the update, could you do us a favor and not veil what weapon a Riven mod affects? Lots of people are having issues. Veil the rest (as they DO get re-rolled), but keep the weapon obvious. And, if possible, some way to let us know how many cycles it has gone through.

Other than that, thank you for the heads up, you're awesome :D

[tnccs215]

7 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

Um accepting or declining a roll is 100% useless. It might be a "feel good" measure but it has no practical value. You still spent the Kuva. If the new roll is worse than the existing (the only use case that having this option is valid for), then two things will happen.

1) You will accept the worse stats on the mod, and end up with a Riven mod you want to reroll.

2) You will decline the roll, and end up with a Riven mod you want to reroll (because you already tried).

How does this help you? The only time this helps is if you are your "last roll" before it becomes too expensive. in every other case you are re-rolling that mod whether you accept or decline, and you are spending the kuva if you accept or decline.

 

If you keep the kuva then it allows lots of rerolling for high stats, I doubt that is what DE means. Seems like it will be spent, but you can not accept a worse mod.

You are simply considering extremes. Sometimes, mods can be "ok", but not ok enough for you to want to settle.

Some people roll a rather acceptable mod in hopes of getting an even better. If the new roll is worse, the ability to return to the previous is welcomed.

And this is no supposition, it happened to me, with my Zhuge mod, and many other people. My default Riven was +toxin and +ice damage; which isn't bad, but definitely not great either. I rolled in hopes of getting a better one, and I got a +zoom, -fire rate one; a substantial downgrade for the first.

I like the Zhuge. I was already using the first. It would be a case in which staying the same would be welcomed.

Sure, you'll waste the Kuva, but if you liked the weapon,you won't have to sacrifice a perfectly okay mod because of a gamble.

If anything, it increases its plat value well you sell it.