[SPOILERZ] A lore question about the *player*

[MrM1]

By ''player'' I mean the Zariman child / dreamer (so yeah, technically the player).

I didn't get all the info about the Zariman but who exactly are they now? Are they some Orokin with special powers? If that is the case then technically they should be able to change / possess other bodies. That would even explain why the Operator at first has one face but if the player decides to even change genders, then it never was a problem lore-wise, so technically this just must be the case that the Zariman are Orokin.

And also in TWW the place where you meet the queens and defeat the elder one, you found out that the Operator was already there before. At the beginning of the quest there were also questions about the Operator's birth place too. Don't want to make a conspiracy theory, but all our current info just hints to the *possible* fact that the Operator was born in that place where you defeated the elder queen. The fact that the queens gave you the powers, and even wanted to take them away, at that place also just supports this theory.

I don't know if I missed something important, but am I correct so far? Are the Zariman normal Orokin? I mean, it could also be the case that the Zariman are just clones too. Some special clones made for war since they got their abilities

[Teloch]

I can hear a rustle of a thousand tinfoil hats at the distance...

[Latiac]

The quests open up more questions than they have answered - We don't know for sure, We don't know exactly WHAT the warframes are yet either, are they alive? Who knows.

 

All I can say is we have to wait till the next quest. and then the next.

[trunks013]

its hard to explain.

Have you done the war within quest tenno ?

If yeah read this

Good thing to keep in mind is that the title of orokin is actualy not neceseraly linked to the kind or the species as we saw in the war within.

Dax are not allowed to raise steel against an orokin but once you stolen the staff. Dax Teshin actualy stop attacking you and start obeying you. Further more if you ask him to kill the queen he does wich means she is not an orokin anymore ? was the staff making her orokin ( or the little part you can actualy drink )

Just a note to leave you thinking

[Lawmonark]

5 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

By ''player'' I mean the Zariman child / dreamer (so yeah, technically the player).

I didn't get all the info about the Zariman but who exactly are they now? Are they some Orokin with special powers? If that is the case then technically they should be able to change / possess other bodies. That would even explain why the Operator at first has one face but if the player decides to even change genders, then it never was a problem lore-wise, so technically this just must be the case that the Zariman are Orokin.

And also in TWW the place where you meet the queens and defeat the elder one, you found out that the Operator was already there before. At the beginning of the quest there were also questions about the Operator's birth place too. Don't want to make a conspiracy theory, but all our current info just hints to the *possible* fact that the Operator was born in that place where you defeated the elder queen. The fact that the queens gave you the powers, and even wanted to take them away, at that place also just supports this theory.

I don't know if I missed something important, but am I correct so far? Are the Zariman normal Orokin? I mean, it could also be the case that the Zariman are just clones too. Some special clones made for war since they got their abilities

This is a great read: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Story_and_History

But as of TWW, some could have changed. At the End, the question is "Who or what was that voice you heard?. Was it the Queen still alive.... or was that the "void" talking to you.

The original "Tenno" were an accident. But once the Orokin found out they could use the void to make Tenno.... they did.

[NightmareT12]

The child is of Orokin Empire, but most likely your standard human.

The Orokin were mostly the ruling class... Pretty sure they weren't just humans with the right position and titles. There has to be more to it, genetically/essentially speaking.

[YUNoJump]

My understanding was that the Zariman children were just the kids of normal Orokin and then the ships went crazy in the void, adults went crazy and the kids got Void powers. 

As for the Queens' chamber, when the Operator uses Transference they do physically transport to the thing they are transferring into (at least after the quest). When the Operator appears in the chamber it is because they physically teleported their body into their Warframe, then hopped out. The same phenomenon can be seen with the Golden Maw, you transfer into it and when you disconnect your body is somewhere else entirely.

The Queens do that thing with the Operator as part of an Orokin ritual called Continuity, where the user of the ritual reduces a host's mind to nothing, then transfers their own mind into this now-empty shell. This is how the Orokin achieve "immortality". The Elder Queen presumably wanted an Operator specifically so that she could harness their Void powers. 

[Shifted]

Changing the operator's face / body / gender is very unlikely to have any lore explanation. It's just there for gameplay's sake.

We don't know who precisely classifies as Orokin.
It looks like it wasn't just everyone who was "human" (or whatever they were called), but rather a small elite of the rulers.

So no, Zariman children are likely not "Orokin" but rather just "regular" children, unless they were possessed by one at one point.

Which opens up a possibility of a "kotor-style" reveal when it turns out you're one of the evil rulers, in a body of a zariman child, suffering from amnesia.

As for why the operator knows he was there? We don't know whether it was for the continuity ritual (stealing bodies) or just for selection aboard the Zariman 10-0 ship to be sent into the void.

In the end there's plenty of paths the story can take.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Shifted

[Lawmonark]

1 minute ago, trunks013 said:

its hard to explain.

Have you done the war within quest tenno ?

If yeah read this

 

  Hide contents

 

Good thing to keep in mind is that the title of orokin is actualy not neceseraly linked to the kind or the species as we saw in the war within.

Dax are not allowed to raise steel against an orokin but once you stolen the staff. Dax Teshin actualy stop attacking you and start obeying you. Further more if you ask him to kill the queen he does wich means she is not an orokin anymore ? was the staff making her orokin ( or the little part you can actualy drink )

Just a note to leave you thinking

 

 

Could the Queen be "alive within the staff"? 

[trunks013]

2 minutes ago, Krhymez said:

Could the Queen be "alive within the staff"? 

I think the fact of possesing this staff or the thing attached to the staff makes you an orokin for whatever reason it could be.

Edited November 17, 2016 by trunks013

[FenricFox]

With the odd attending notion that we're walking around with the Orokin Imperial Regalia, casually using it just like any other weapon.

[Lawmonark]

4 minutes ago, FenricFox said:

With the odd attending notion that we're walking around with the Orokin Imperial Regalia, casually using it just like any other weapon.

I wonder if draining a certain amount of downed enemies does anything to the staff.... i am sure someone out their has been doing that.

Would be cool if something happened if you drain "x" amount.

[Brasten]

13 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

The fact that the queens gave you the powers

Why do people keep mis-remembering this line?

Quote

But you belong to me now. For you see, child, we conceived of these ugly, metal cysts.... We gave you your precious gifts.

The only thing the Queens gave, and I use that very loosely, us are our Warframes. Although Ballas seems to have been in direct charge of the project. At best the Queens were either his patrons or original designers of the Infested Golems that were eventually linked to us.

They did not give us our Void linked powers. This is their hubris, believing that we are powerless without the Warframes to channel through. They forget that at least one of us (not a Warframe) burned the face and skin of the a rescue crew.

As for us "knowing this place," do remember we served the Orokin before our memories were wiped in the Dream by Natah. We likely had direct contact with most of the Orokin elite. Including the Queens.

[MagPrime]

32 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

but all our current info just hints to the *possible* fact that the Operator was born in that place where you defeated the elder queen

Not really.  Where we fight the elder queen is inside a Grineer fortress that's been built inside an asteroid and had a couple Formorian engines stuck to it.  The entire aesthetic is Grineer, no hint of Orokin.

33 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

That would even explain why the Operator at first has one face but if the player decides to even change genders

I'd lean more towards this being a simple game mechanic to appeal to the players and has no connection to the lore.

34 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

I don't know if I missed something important, but am I correct so far? Are the Zariman normal Orokin? I mean, it could also be the case that the Zariman are just clones too. Some special clones made for war since they got their abilities

The Tenno are Orokin children that survived being stranded in the Void and subsequently mutated/altered.  I doubt they're clones of anyone.

[Brasten]

3 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

The entire aesthetic is Grineer, no hint of Orokin.

And the Queens were more or less shunned Orokin. Based on the Kuria, them being twins was not well liked by other Orokin. From that poem I got the sense they were marginalized within the rest of the Orokin elite hierarchic. They couldn't just kill them, and were forced to tolerate them, and likely any eccentricities they had. Which may have including the Black and Red trappings, over the Gold of other Orokin. Including their custom Black and Red "Kuva" chamber.

Which they then fortified against wave after wave of Grineer rebels, until they were proclaimed "Queens".

[Blakrana]

29 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

I didn't get all the info about the Zariman but who exactly are they now? Are they some Orokin with special powers?

The Tenno, aka Orphans of Ten Zero, were originally children within the Orokin Empire and comprised part of the crew...or something...of the Zariman Ten Zero ship.

The Zariman Ten Zero then had something happen to it, some form of Void jump accident (or "accident" depending how you read things, still open to wonder) causing damage to the ship and the gradually declining mental well being of the adults of Zariman. Only the children, the eventual Tenno, could seemingly retain their minds within the Void...and it is this that eventually gave them their power.

Ergo, technically one could consider Tenno Orokin in a "citizens of the empire" context, but they are not of the Orokin ruling caste and to be fair...they were still regarded as pariahs even during the Orokin era amidst the Old War. Tenno may have lost any claim to 'citizenship' purely by merit of the horror that was the Zariman Incident.

By comparison, any abilities of the Orokin specifically seem tied to complete and total control of their exceptionally powerful technologies and systems; gene-locks on the Solar Rails controls travelling capabilities, whilst the use of Kuva and the Continuity ritual leads to their immortality at the low price of breaking the minds of children just to steal their body afterwards...or at least, the form of immortality the Queen employed. Ballas' contemporaries among the Executors might have had an even stronger form of it, what with "shrugging off" Ordan's attempt on their lives.

38 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

And also in TWW the place where you meet the queens and defeat the elder one, you found out that the Operator was already there before

When you start the Quest, you see the cinematic with the Queens. Now...whilst this is your standard gameplay thing...the Lotus does immediately comment after it ends and you have control that "Your somatics output seems...high" and the Operator is slightly disorientated, believing they may have just "nodded off".

Now...whilst it's not set in stone, I think this is set up to imply that the Operator saw that event, by virtue of either their Void nature or the Transference systems, in a manner akin to either a precognitive dream or perhaps astral projection. Toss in that Teshin describes the Void as "the realm that watches and dreams" I'm hesitant to suggest that the Void nature is the thing...and the Somatics merely amplified this capacity.

Bear in mind that the Tenno seemingly have some capability to draw out memories or impressions related to a location, such as Margulis' and Ballas' comments on Lua or Baro's Mother during Sands of Inaros. This may be part of their 'Void' nature beyond the capabilities the Quest showed us outright. However, much of what I've stated is for now just inference until proven otherwise. Take with a pinch of salt as it were.

45 minutes ago, MrM1 said:

I mean, it could also be the case that the Zariman are just clones too.

Personally I consider that a dubious over-complication. Fact remains that whilst we don't know how large the Zariman was, we know it was large enough to contain Biomes which...the simple fact there were multiple implies great size. Furthermore, the simple nature of the children becoming the Orphans of Ten Zero could have been far too complex to simply replicate...and Cloning would logically only clone the Tenno on a genetic level...something that I don't feel the Void necessarily affects. And that's supposing the Tenno even still have a completely human physiology which is a good question in and of itself...alas, no answers either way yet.

Fact is...there's a lot we don't know as of yet, but here's my general best thoughts on the matter.

Apologies for going on, as ever.

[UrielColtan]

Orokin are humans, but ascended to "immortality" by drinking Kuva , as the Cephalon fragments suggest, and are given general genetic domain over everything in their empire with genetic locks.(Kuva, beyond mere allowance of body transfer, also seems to afford a bit healing factor, given how some Orokin rise again from presumed fatal attacks in one of the Cephalon fragments.)

So Orokin are basically just humans who drank Kuva.

Some of the Orokin survived and went on to naturally have offspring, if the Anti Moa synthesis is any indication, and Alad V is called an Orokin., which would also support that notion. It's also likely that, given how the people manning the Orokin ship that the kids were on, would have to have been Orokin to even be able to operate the thing, it is very likely that the Zariman children were indeed, spawn of Orokin blood.

Edited November 17, 2016 by UrielColtan