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Let us list "useless" abilities that need to be looked at


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12 minutes ago, LazerusKI said:

Vauban:

Minelayer - Bounce is not needed anymore. Tripwire is a joke. Concuss and Shred would be better as Grenades, Conuss should open for finishers

I agree bounce is pretty pointless outside of screwing around. I kinda like tripwire but it does suck when all the enemies just walk/stagger through it instead of sprint and fall face first into a pile of balls. Shred should have a permanent armor debuff if you ask me... or double it's current duration. It's way too short.

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19 minutes ago, LazerusKI said:

Ivara:

Noise Arrow - has anyone actually found a reliable way to use it? Why should i use it when i can use Sleep Arrow instead?

Noise Arrow is useful for grouping enemies together. If you're doing stealth farming with a hushed Tonkor, you can use the noise arrow to group them up and blow them up in one shot. It's extremely niche, but not entirely useless.

As for my own nominations...

Equinox' Rage and Mend. Rest does everything Rage does, except it completely CCs enemies instead of giving them a speed boost, making Rage entirely obsolete. Mend is just an awful ability, with a two second casting time, after which enemies have to be killed in order to then release a single blast of healing that does not provide overshields. Mend does nothing if maintained either.

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14 minutes ago, Quanlain said:

Actually, a good unpunishable way to oneshot a lvl 100+ bombard. One of few. 

There are no doubt that there are better frames and a bunch of weapons that can kill high lvl heavies fast. 

But calling rift surge and limbo useless is a big mistake. 

Honestly I don't think Limbo is useless. I use him all the time for sortie defense :P but I don't like surge. I don't want surge gone, nor do I think it's plain bad... but I don't want to spend time/energy casting it AND bringing enemies into the rift with me.

What if say... we swap around Cata and Surge? Make rift surge a wave (like MPrime/Polarize) that actually increases damage dealt to enemies in the rift (instead of buffing only limbo's weapons, now the team gets the buff as well) but also add stagger/CC to it, so you can mass CC groups of enemies caught in Cata, then push that advantage with the damage buff

Edited by AXCrusnik
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1 minute ago, AXCrusnik said:

Honestly I don't think Limbo is useless. I use him all the time for sortie defense :P but I don't like surge. I don't want surge gone, nor do I think it's plain bad... but I don't want to spend time/energy casting it AND bringing enemies into the rift with me.

What if say... we swap around Cata and Surge? Make rift surge a wave (like MPrime/Polarize) but also add stagger/CC to it, so you can mass CC groups of enemies caught in Cata, then push that advantage with the damage buff (maybe affects all teammates in the rift now? or just any damage received by enemies in the rift)

What if Rift Surge went on the same system as Pacify? A toggle ability that -only- consumes energy if an enemy is in the rift? This would give Limbo stronger synergy with Zenurik and Energy Siphon, would off-hand the entire process so you don't have to micromanage too much, and would just generally improve Limbo's solidity.

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KK.

Spoiler

 

Sonic Boom, Silence, Sound Quake

Spectral Scream, Effigy

Metamorphosis, Rage, Pacify & Provoke

Hydroid

Devour

Banish, Rift Walk, Rift Surge

Decoy, Switch Teleport

Ballistic Battery

Sleight of Hand

Soul Punch

Null Star, Wormhole

Hallowed Ground

Toxic Lash

Well of Life

Rip Line, Paralysis

Tesla

Iron Jab

Tail Wind, Dive Bomb

 

Some arent entirely useless but need some serious QoL additions. Ive left a few out on on the basis that theyre somewhat useful but could still use changes.

Edited by Misgenesis
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Maybe some day we will get 5th power to every frame. Then we could choose from four or possibly only three to use in game?

Well, since that day we can talk about what we have, so:

 

Ash - he gets reworked soon(TM) in his ultimate department but his Shuriken, even stripping armor, could be easily replaced with something as ninja like but maybe with CC aspect: cover floor with spiked traps poisoning enemies.

Atlas - turning enemies to stone takes too much time so it needs a revision but I would first improve summoning on stone wall - if I target an enemy it should rise from below and damage my target

Banshee - sure, silence needs a tweak but her ultimate is too much of a sacrifice making her stationary and boring (press 4, watch YT video in another window) and a bit OP, stunning entire map with good build. Let her instead create a giant shockvawe, stripping armor, opening to finishers and marking enemies on map.

Chroma - breathing energy on enemies is never the best way to deal with them. This needs to be buffed with more range and power.

Ember - WOF is insanely OP and that's the real problem - every QOL change to her powers must be on expense of the ultimate. I would merge accelerant with third power - expanding wave knocks enemies and makes them recieve more fire damage, team gets a buff. WOF shrinks with time. "Ring of fire" being improved third power should lose power over time but expand a bit, accelerant would make it explode single time.

Equinox - day form second power could do a heavy stun or knock enemies.

Excal - Slash dash is not something I enjoy using, any change to that mechanics would please me. Otherwise I would get rid of flash animation on exalted slide attack, it's annoying.

Frost - first power should allow for: press and hold to freeze more, as simple as that. 

Hydroid - both first power and water wave are awkward to use, concepts are fine but the execution was awful. They need to feel satysfying. How about creating a cloud pouring corrosive rain, shooting electricity on enemies? 


Inaros - sand tornado is a decent CC, in theory. Even with augment this power is not worth using over weapons. Increase the damage on energy cost, maybe?

Ivara - I know people love navigator and we should focus on "not so useful" powers but I would not miss it if the power was replaced by something else.

Limbo - I tried to play with proper builds and coordinated team but he's not my favorite so it's easy to criticize. He can seriously mess with a team, still a king of trolls - players in a team with Limbo should be much less affected by his powers, able to pick up datamasses and drops, even visual effects on his powers are annoying. 

Loki - intergrate decoy with teleport - if pointed at enemy, decoy or teammate=teleport, if pointed at empty space=decoy. Also, hold power pointed at decoy to deactivate it. New power should camouflage Loki as one of enemies. We all know invis will get movement and energy drain nerf sooner or later so why not have something fun as another power.

Mag - her ultimate needs to be buffed, it's a waste of energy now - enemies pop out of crush without even touching the floor, mandatory augment on this makes it too costly.

Mesa - I tried using first power to emininate heavy enemies - honestly there are better ways to deal with challenges as Mesa. And she needs to walk using her ultimate, being a tenno turret is boring.

Mirage - she does not benefit enough from creating traps in stationary missions. Changing drops to bombs with augment is an awful idea. Both need a fix.

Nekros - Soul Punch should be replaced or augmented with "Soul Pinata" = enemy is marked with a curse and drops extra loot on death

Nezha - chackram throw and teleport are not very useful, maybe someone knows how to use them well but I never bother

Nova - obviously her first power, orbs should be purely defensive, absorbing damage and augment could allow us to send them on enemies with recast

Nyx - yes, her psychic bolts are awful, could be replaced with real offensive projectile just to spice her up

Oberon - needs a rework on healing power, it should be better than Trinity, maybe also a passive healing team in 10m radius

Rhino - His buff to team is useful but not very imaginative. I would prefer to have another CC/debuff to enemies

Saryn - Her ultimate is a sad reminder of lost power, I would prefer to create an expanding field of corrosive power, increasing growth and spread of spores

Titania - maybe it's just a personal preference but I consider her to be a failed experiment, rework all the way...

Trinity - just like Nyx, she needs some way to do direct damage once in a while. Maybe some augments could give her scaling damage on power casts?

Valkyr - she's female Volverine, not Spiderman, ziplines must go. I barely see anyone using them to travel now that parkour 2.0 is free, fishing for enemies to pull them from crowd of heavies seems fun but only on paper.

Vauban - all the extra traps he got from recent rework are underwhelming. Tripping enemies? Seriously?

Volt - not sure what to say, I liked him much more before changes to speed effects, it used to look good and feel great. I guess otherwise he needs a buffs to his ultimate and no energy drain on carrying shield.

Wukong - poky stick is dull, augmented poky stick is less dull but what a weird frame he is overall. 

Zephyr - rework all of her powers ASAP please. She makes no sense in post parkour 2.0 world, all invisible ceilings on most maps mess with her mobility, her ultimate is unreliable even with augment.

 

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49 minutes ago, Azrael said:

I was expecting to see this, and you're totally wrong. Silence is powerful and useful, and is certainly not made pointless by her passive. Most of the time when I play Banshee Silence is my main ability.

 

Surprised nobody's mentioned Trinity's Well of Life. While it has a few niche uses, it's absolutely terrible at what it's supposed to be for, which is healing. It definitely needs a rework.

I personally fail to see the use, the stun is barely useful for the 75 cost. Augment doesn't allow >1 finisher per cast and overall I just can't find any reason to use this power. You did say it's your main ability so care to enlighten me what exactly is good about it?

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13 minutes ago, Sannidor said:

Trinity - just like Nyx, she needs some way to do direct damage once in a while. Maybe some augments could give her scaling damage on power casts?

 

I'm sorry but I have to disagree, not every frame needs damaging skills.

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12 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

I personally fail to see the use, the stun is barely useful for the 75 cost. Augment doesn't allow >1 finisher per cast and overall I just can't find any reason to use this power. You did say it's your main ability so care to enlighten me what exactly is good about it?

They probably have shorter range than you. If you don't stun the whole tile at once you can move from enemy to enemy as they get stunned, or maybe they do primarily stealth runs... but my bet is on the former. Also (this is from a commenter on the wiki not by first hand account, so I could be wrong) you can re-trigger the stun by moving the enemy outside the radius then back in.

Edited by AXCrusnik
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2 hours ago, Quanlain said:

But rift surge allows to onehit kill enemies in rift with pretty much any melee weapon. 

I love it how people, who do not know the certain warframe's meta are calling his abilities useless. That's a shame. 

Only one thing that i would change in Limbo is combine his 1 and 2.

I would prefer combining 2 and 3. Its bothersome buffing yourself twice and there's no reason to keep the two buffs separate since 3 only works in the rift anyway. Let his 3 be a form of crowd control for rifted enemies because even though he has virtually infinite weapon damage scaling, he's still very squishy.

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15 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I would prefer combining 2 and 3. Its bothersome buffing yourself twice and there's no reason to keep the two buffs separate since 3 only works in the rift anyway. Let his 3 be a form of crowd control for rifted enemies because even though he has virtually infinite weapon damage scaling, he's still very squishy.

Actually, i had a thread about limbo, there i suggested to turn surge into a rift passive, Limbo's current passive into all-time passive (reload and holster speed, as it is not quite a passive, if you have to use skills to get it.) and combine 1 and 2,thus limbo will have 2 empty slots for skills. Giving DE a lot of free space i terms of not even changing, but even adding more skills to Limbo' pool. 

I'll try to find my thread later and post here a link, so you will be able to critisize my ideas. 

P. S. Rift wave is nice thing though. But adding it on top of rift surge would be better than exhanging one. 

There it is, let's not go off topic and move every limbo argument in this old thread of mine. Also, there is a big mass of text with my positions about Limbo.

Edited by Quanlain
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2 hours ago, Azrael said:

I was expecting to see this, and you're totally wrong. Silence is powerful and useful, and is certainly not made pointless by her passive. Most of the time when I play Banshee Silence is my main ability.

 

Surprised nobody's mentioned Trinity's Well of Life. While it has a few niche uses, it's absolutely terrible at what it's supposed to be for, which is healing. It definitely needs a rework.

Silence does way more than just silence enemy and your sound inside the radius and stun. It also slows down enemy reaction time and allows degen procs to stealth kill enemies without breaking stealth multiplier. Granted, For normal run and gun gameplay on the stagger is useful, which is why it could benefit from a secondary debuff effect on enemies, like decreased accuracy or longer KD recovery time due to their inner ears being fracked up.

What Trinity lacks IMO is mobility on some of her abilities, and WoL is the worst offender in that regard. It has the longest cast time, gives little to no advantage over Blessing except for a single target stun, and allows the players to heal themselves while outside of Blessing range. I think the stun should be sacrificed for a change in how the ability works, turning it into a one handed, vampiric cast on ally weapon/frame buff similar to the elemental frames' first ability augments. That way Trin can allow the ally to heal themselves like the used to with the stationary target without having to be in her range, and most importantly, keep moving.

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22 minutes ago, Quanlain said:

Actually, i had a thread about limbo, there i suggested to turn surge into a rift passive, Limbo's current passive into all-time passive (reload and holster speed, as it is not quite a passive, if you have to use skills to get it.) and combine 1 and 2,thus limbo will have 2 empty slots for skills. Giving DE a lot of free space i terms of not even changing, but even adding more skills to Limbo' pool. 

I'll try to find my thread later and post here a link, so you will be able to critisize my ideas. 

P. S. Rift wave is nice thing though. But adding it on top of rift surge would be better than exhanging one. 

I don't mind it being a passive as long as it still scales with Power Strength and can still be built for infinite damage scaling.

On topic, I've only liked using 9 warframes so far and I'm gonna list abilities that I don't believe are useless but are least used for my play style.

Excalibur's 3: I know its not useless and is a nice room clearing nuke but I've used it very little because its over shadowed by his 2 in situations where you could use his 3 but why would you as his 2 scales against really really high leveled enemies better and uses less energy.

Rhino's 1: I've used this the least because his 2,3 and 4 are all way more useful for defense, damage and CC respectively. I would rather just melee my enemy than waste energy on his 1.

Trinity's 1: I found this very impractical because her 2 recharges my energy infinitely so in the end, I can just spam her 4 which is WAY better than her 1.

Nova's 1: I'm not sure how to use it.I'm assuming its defensive where it auto damages enemies that come near and sneak up on me but once you get 4 out, enemies won't come near you. I've used it least. Even her 3 is fun to use on some spy missions.

Ivara's Noise Arrow: Its fun luring enemies around when you're soloing and nothing's alerted but why would you need to do this practically? Is it so that you can hit them all with one sleep arrow? Why not just shoot multiple sleep arrows instead? It seems gimmicky and more for fun's sake than anything else.

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3 hours ago, Colyeses said:

Equinox' Rage and Mend. Rest does everything Rage does, except it completely CCs enemies instead of giving them a speed boost, making Rage entirely obsolete. Mend is just an awful ability, with a two second casting time, after which enemies have to be killed in order to then release a single blast of healing that does not provide overshields. Mend does nothing if maintained either.

I can't speak on Rage, but Mend is actually fairly useful when you get used to it. It could use a boost to maintaining, but it is a lifesaver as a Night-form Peaceful Provocation user.

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4 hours ago, Major_Phantom said:

I personally fail to see the use, the stun is barely useful for the 75 cost. Augment doesn't allow >1 finisher per cast and overall I just can't find any reason to use this power. You did say it's your main ability so care to enlighten me what exactly is good about it?

 

4 hours ago, AXCrusnik said:

They probably have shorter range than you. If you don't stun the whole tile at once you can move from enemy to enemy as they get stunned, or maybe they do primarily stealth runs... but my bet is on the former. Also (this is from a commenter on the wiki not by first hand account, so I could be wrong) you can re-trigger the stun by moving the enemy outside the radius then back in.

There are many ways to effectively use Silence, short range is one of them. @AXCrusnik is correct about the re-stun, if you move out of and into range you can re-stun enemies. I used to run a relatively short range banshee and just move really fast, but these days I prefer to run low duration with higher range. By cutting the duration down to around 17% (I prefer it to 12%) I can re-cast silence at around the same time that the stun ends. Also silence has other uses, for example it slows down enemy reactions times and silences their guns as well as yours (which is why Banshee's passive doesn't invalidate this aspect). Also silence forces the stealth multiplier to apply to DoT's, allowing effective killing using gas or slash procs without a sleep or blind ability. Savage Banshee is a fast paced playstyle with high risks and high rewards, so it suits me very well.

 

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I would prefer combining 2 and 3. Its bothersome buffing yourself twice and there's no reason to keep the two buffs separate since 3 only works in the rift anyway. Let his 3 be a form of crowd control for rifted enemies because even though he has virtually infinite weapon damage scaling, he's still very squishy.

While I'm sure you have plenty of well thought-out ideas, this is a thread about useless abilities, not abilities that some people don't enjoy using. If some people find an ability to be useful, then it probably doesn't belong on this list, imo. There are lots of abilities that are useful, but could still use some changes.

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8 hours ago, Sannidor said:

Excal - Slash dash is not something I enjoy using, any change to that mechanics would please me.

It's by far my favorite movement skill in the game, AND it works great with Excal's theme. As an Excal player, I use that to get to melee range quickly and with invincibility. It also sets up ground finishers, which play into the whole melee theme too, even though that's usually a bit slow. But yeah, super good vs Bombards, super good vs crowds, and super good for parkour. Sorry you're not having fun with it, to each their own I guess

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tidal surge- should become the first ability then makes tempest barrage the 2nd giving it something extra for the cost

silence- should have a continuous stun every certain amount of time like a pulse

radial javelin- falls off to quickly due to the damage types and has a terrible stun that doesnt always work and limited number of enemies and line of sight. id rather it turned into blades around you giving a chance to deflect bullets or simply just give it duration for the stun, or you could simply allow it to get the finisher's damage from when you cast radial blind.

null star- should just blast proc instantly without the augment

rift surge- good for damage i guess but should really just be a passive or give it an extra effect.

well of life- allow it to heal you on its own instead of damaging it yourself

snowglobe- nothing wrong just hate the visual effect inside id love a turn off switch for it or make as snowflakes. should stop aoe damage going through or at least scorches flamethrowers going through from halfway across the map unless its a bug.

ballistic battery- never use it or forget to use it as its more annoying than anything for charging it up and to release it when weapons can do it faster. rather it gave a massive multishot of projectiles

dive bomb/tail wind- should just be combined together

physic bolts- augment should just be the innate ability

nezha the 2 ability?- doesn't scale well maybe just give it a flat health heal for the damage not on kill

slash dash- nothing wrong with it except about 80 percent of the time im only hitting about 2-3 max enemies 

Edited by tris1
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