Damage 3.0 Discussion - No More One Hit Kills

[(PSN)BigVinZ007]

I'm hoping the new damage system will bring (gun)skill and challenge back to the forefront.

Simplify enemy levels. Keep them between 10 to 50. (being the equivalent of 10-100 today)

None of our weapons one hit kill enemies except for bows/snipers and shotguns. Exceptions be stuff like Opticor. For example a Soma Prime is not gonna ridiculously one shot a level 10 grineer for 10,000 damage. Its gonna take an average 3 shots. 

Neither will enemy factions one hit finish us. Thinking back of hour long void survival, Corpus Tech grenades and Bombard homing missiles could use a subtle indicator and Nullifier snipers leave us with 10% HP so we could retreat.

I would keep the same mods just make the numbers less. Like 20% multi shot instead of 120% for pistols. Haven't done the math so don't quote me on this but it would make everything less of a headache for the developers and players who invested in it. Plus give 2 extra utility slots for weapons. 

With a scaled back system like this they would also have to double check the warframe abilities because Ash blade storming through a crowd all day long and never using a weapon wouldn't fit in it. I feel with Zenurik, energy pads and efficiency mods they really shot themselves in the foot by allowing the player base to spam abilities and removing challenge. They are powerful and should be but not this frequent. Also we need at least 1 augment mod slot. 

Would love to hear what you wanna see in Damage 3.0

Edited November 19, 2016 by (PS4)BigVinZ007

[Levi]

I wrote up an entire like words for this topic but I decided to just say, If I were to one day login and not 1 shot something with my dex sybaris I would log right back out because I don't want to have to resort to actually trying to kill something because the game revolves around grinding and if grinding makes me grind more I'd probably just quit.

[NativeKiller]

Not being able to one-shot a lvl 10 enemy -> 10/10, would uninstall the game again

[PoobahTheGrand]

Stopped reading after keeping enemies lvl 50 max.

 

 Ok I did read the whole thing. But I regret it and should've actually stopped at the lvl 50 part

Edited November 19, 2016 by PoobahTheGrand

[Noobverest]

Not being able to one shot enemies = super bad idea.

Having a difficult time/annoying time getting through lower level content is the worst thing you can do in a game where you occasionally have to run through lower level content when you have everything unlocked already.

I remember in Guild Wars 2, there was a system where even if you were lv 80 (level cap before it went F2p IDK anymore), if you wanted to explore a lv 40 region, you scaled down to level 40 and a lv 40 mob was as hard to kill as a lv 80 mob. Horrible idea, and stupid.

[KotoKuraken]

Keep between lvl 10 and 50? No.

More like 1-500.

Not be able to oneshot lvl10? No, that would be like not being able to kill basic slimes.

[Irorone]

"Balance"

>_>

[(PSN)BigVinZ007]

Level 10 would be the equivalent of lv 50 today if that makes sense. 

 

[KotoKuraken]

Currently, the spectrum goes from 1 to 9999. Lvl 50 shouldnt be the cap, because then youd only ever see level 1 to 10, and each rank would be EXPONENTIALLY bigger than the last.

Das no bueno

[EmptyDevil]

I think damage 3.0 should capitalize on the the strengths + weaknesses of elements and health types, with the removal of flat damage bonuses that do not have drawbacks. Conditional bonuses would be fine. All channeled Warframe abilities should have the Hysteria treatment, in which the longer it's left on, the more energy it consumes. Enemies should take a hit to scaling as well.

[Obviousclone]

guild Wars 2 has a neat system of scaling down players in level/damage output whenever they enter a low level zone, so high level players don't just blitz through low level content and can actually enjoy the game at the correct pace.

The downscaling also affects healthbars/defences- you'll still have an advantage (I think the minimum level they can reduce you to is 6 above the zone), but you'll actually need fight accordingly and carefully in lower levelled zones. And of course, the idea is supported by the fact that "hey you're a skilled, high level player, you should be skilled enough to beat these enemies even without high level stuff".

 

Personally I think a good change would be fixing the ammo economy (which is horribly imbalanced weapon to weapon, (e.g. a gorgon treats 20 bullets differently than the sybaris) and the energy economy- right now it's you either have infinite energy and can spam forever, or you have very little and need to ration your skill use which is very bad for combo/power dependant frames.

[UrielColtan]

"Adding more hit points = skill."

I suggest you just stick to endless missions if you just want that, TC.

[(PSN)BigVinZ007]

Do most people really enjoy running low level void fissure exterminate missions like its Dynasty Warriors?

You have to admit it gets old fast and you only do it for the rewards.

Or Survival in this broken damage scaling fighting against lv100+ enemies.

Edited November 19, 2016 by (PS4)BigVinZ007

[UrielColtan]

3 minutes ago, Obviousclone said:

guild Wars 2 has a neat system of scaling down players in level/damage output whenever they enter a low level zone, so high level players don't just blitz through low level content and can actually enjoy the game at the correct pace.

The downscaling also affects healthbars/defences- you'll still have an advantage (I think the minimum level they can reduce you to is 6 above the zone), but you'll actually need fight accordingly and carefully in lower levelled zones. And of course, the idea is supported by the fact that "hey you're a skilled, high level player, you should be skilled enough to beat these enemies even without high level stuff".

 

Personally I think a good change would be fixing the ammo economy (which is horribly imbalanced weapon to weapon, (e.g. a gorgon treats 20 bullets differently than the sybaris) and the energy economy- right now it's you either have infinite energy and can spam forever, or you have very little and need to ration your skill use which is very bad for combo/power dependant frames.

Which is a lame idea for this game. Play Guild Wars 2 if you want Guild Wars 2

[Noobverest]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)BigVinZ007 said:

Do most people really enjoy running low level void fissure exterminate missions like its Dynasty Warriors?

You have to admit it gets old fast and you only do it for the rewards.

Or Survival in this broken damage scaling fighting against lv100+ enemies.

I can't say I LIKE it but sometimes I HAVE TO

Because some parts are locked in LITH FISSURES

[Rakosta_Kai]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)BigVinZ007 said:

Would love to hear what you wanna see in Damage 3.0

My wish list has a ton of stuff they won't do...

Auto scaling in groups.

Difficulty scaling in missions

Game balanced to keep players from being able to just faceroll mobs in groups without the difficulty level set accordingly... Drops and rewards value adjusted to match.

Aggressively diminishing returns on every stat over it's allocation cap

Allocation caps on everything

All weapons tiered and all tiers given their own caps. The lower the tier, the higher the cap but still evens out at max modding levels.

Single elements made as valuable as combos.

IPS re-tuned and re-balanced to be comparatively even.

[SharkPot]

Why not just sit around a campfire and sing and expect it to kill enemies right?

Why would I spend so much endo/cores, mod farming, over formaing stuff? If a guy with no stuff performs same as well.

Mate just go and pls play your cod if you want, but don't expect all of us to join you.

[UrielColtan]

No, we can't have something to aspire to. Everyone has to be held down to my level and everyone gets effort badges, nothing distinct.

Edited November 19, 2016 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)BigVinZ007]

11 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

My wish list has a ton of stuff they won't do...

Auto scaling in groups.

Difficulty scaling in missions

Game balanced to keep players from being able to just faceroll mobs in groups without the difficulty level set accordingly... Drops and rewards value adjusted to match.

Aggressively diminishing returns on every stat over it's allocation cap

Allocation caps on everything

All weapons tiered and all tiers given their own caps. The lower the tier, the higher the cap but still evens out at max modding levels.

Single elements made as valuable as combos.

IPS re-tuned and re-balanced to be comparatively even.

I like this. Good changes. Something as simple as better rewards the longer you're in a mission should've been here already. I know it'll never happen but it doesn't hurt to dream. Look at what happened with Carrier.

A lot of people were sceptical about movement 2.0 and screamed in fear of change for coptering. It all worked out.

All I'm tryin to say is we either one shot or get one shotted. 

[-skimmer-]

hmm, this is honestly the kind of stuff I expect in custom player created missions. But honestly there is no place for it in the main game as it is...

[Etan-gK]

No, enemy levels should stay where they are. Hell, damage can stay where it's at.  DE needs to fix enemy scaling before anything else, as evidenced by sorties where corpus have enhanced shields or grineer with their bricked armor scaling nonsense. I've modded a tonkor to one-shot damn near anything under level 100 (because it's fun and I don't have time to deal with trash mobs), but beyond lvl 100, eneny scaling goes completely out the window sometimes taking four or five shots to even cut enemies down to half health.

[(PSN)BigVinZ007]

18 minutes ago, Etan-gK said:

No, enemy levels should stay where they are. Hell, damage can stay where it's at.  DE needs to fix enemy scaling before anything else, as evidenced by sorties where corpus have enhanced shields or grineer with their bricked armor scaling nonsense. I've modded a tonkor to one-shot damn near anything under level 100 (because it's fun and I don't have time to deal with trash mobs), but beyond lvl 100, eneny scaling goes completely out the window sometimes taking four or five shots to even cut enemies down to half health.

I agree a rocket launcher should one shot everything in the game. A Boltor... no.

Lvl 100 is definitely the tipping point. I don't think we were ever meant to go beyond that. 

[EmptyDevil]

17 minutes ago, Etan-gK said:

No, enemy levels should stay where they are. Hell, damage can stay where it's at.  DE needs to fix enemy scaling before anything else, as evidenced by sorties where corpus have enhanced shields or grineer with their bricked armor scaling nonsense. I've modded a tonkor to one-shot damn near anything under level 100 (because it's fun and I don't have time to deal with trash mobs), but beyond lvl 100, eneny scaling goes completely out the window sometimes taking four or five shots to even cut enemies down to half health.

No. They need to fix players first if they are going to bother with balancing overhauls, or fix players AND enemies at the same time. If they nerfed all enemies first, making them even easier than they are now, i wouldn't be surprised if the same people saying "nerf enemies first" happens to be the first to whine by saying 'there is no content for my 7 forma Tonkor and Chroma' or 'endgame is dead'. Enemies well past level 100 in endless modes or enemies with sortie modifiers aren't meant for you to oneshot.

[Etan-gK]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)BigVinZ007 said:

I agree a rocket launcher should one shot everything in the game. A Boltor... no.

Lvl 100 is definitely the tipping point. I don't think we were ever meant to go beyond that. 

we weren't, but sorties push past level 100. so we still have to deal with it. I can't stand enemies with BS mechanics that break over lvl 100 (looking at you lvl 100 sapping osprey), 

[o.0-]

Hmm... if this means that the type of AI of the Executioners, Brokers, Stalker and so on have, can be applied to more enemies and have reduced mob density with tougher enemies, this might be good for the game. The high volume of trash mobs is actually kind of ridiculous when considering the lore of the dystopic solar system.

But the scale capped to 50 is too low, but I can see why you would start there.

The main thing would be to keep the challenge, and personally have damage be more realistic. Anyone with real combat experience and/or seen actual war footage would know that one shot kills tend to be less common then what most video games portray and our Warframe baddies have high tech gear and body armor. Nevertheless there are instances where one shot kills will still be possible such as with most Sniper Rifles and explosives.

In the vein of a more realistic approach, there should be a renewed focus on IPS being the backbone, not something that needs to be ignored for maximizing Elemental damage and their procs. Elemental sources should be more damage over time and work more as CC effects and de-buffs, not reliant on Warframe powers, IMHO.

I have my thoughts in greater detail here, for any interested: