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(spoiler) is there any logic or lore reason why we need void powers to defeat Kuva guardians?


Hypernaut1
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They just look like big enemies. There's nothing that really telegraphs the fact that they should be impervious to our weapons and abilities. I played the quest, but during that time I thought it was directly related to the operators journey/story, not a necessary in game mechanic.

I think DE should remove this invulnerability from these enemies. It doesn't flow with combat at all. I played the quest and STILL had to resort to the wiki to understand what I needed to do to defeat them. It was wildly inconsistent in my experience. 

Operator void walking should be for puzzles or special missions, not combat action.

Edited by Hypernaut1
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Warframes have the same rules applied to them that Dax do. Ie - they can't harm those that bear the Kuva.

Now unfortunately, this is difficult to represent in-game other than nullifying damage, as having our frame freeze up and do nothing when so much as aiming at them would be a pain.

Edited by StallordD
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It's because their Kesheg contains Kuva, which provides invulnerability (never explained how?) and is only intercepted by our Operator powers - when we use Void Dash, we are actually knocking their polearms away from them. It all just came out of nowhere during that fight, really.

 

 

...I wish we have invulnerability (or at least damage reduction) when we use the Kesheg ._.

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4 minutes ago, StallordD said:

Warframes have the same rules applied to them that Dax do. Ie - they can't harm those that bear the Kuva.

Wait, really? I must've missed that piece of lore, because I've only seen the Kween using her Kuva to infiltrate our warframe, not as a rule of invulnerability. I suppose it is possible given the relation of Kuva and the Orokin elites, but I really need to know where that piece of information exist :P

Edited by Beggining
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9 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

They just look like big enemies. There's nothing that really telegraphs the fact that they should be impervious to our weapons and abilities. I played the quest, but during that time I thought it was directly related to the operators journey/story, not a necessary in game mechanic.

I think DE should remove this invulnerability from these enemies. It doesn't flow with combat at all. I played the quest and STILL had to resort to the wiki to understand what I needed to do to defeat them. It was wildly inconsistent in my experience. 

Operator void walking should be for puzzles or special missions, not combat action.

I see you have learned to tune out everything Teshin says...  Can't say I blame you. XD

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21 minutes ago, StallordD said:

Warframes have the same rules applied to them that Dax do. Ie - they can't harm those that bear the Kuva.

Now unfortunately, this is difficult to represent in-game other than nullifying damage, as having our frame freeze up and do nothing when so much as aiming at them would be a pain.

 

18 minutes ago, Beggining said:

Wait, really? I must've missed that piece of lore, because I've only seen the Kween using her Kuva to infiltrate our warframe, not as a rule of invulnerability. I suppose it is possible given the relation of Kuva and the Orokin elites, but I really need to know where that piece of information exist :P

Wait, I got it - we can't hurt Teshin either when he wields the Orvius (which requires Kuva to build), nor the Kween when she wields the scepter. Though, it is rather odd that we can hurt the guardians when they are wielding the Twin Roggas, which also requires Kuva >.>

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Actually we can hurt Teshin when he's wielding the Orvius.  In fact the only time he's not wielding it is when he tosses it to puppeteer us and we can't do anything at all...  Also, damn was that poster misleading.  I mean, I guess it fit in with the one for the previous quest though... so from now on if we see some weird symbolic imagery in promotional material for a quest we'll know it's actually not symbolic at all and is just a depiction of a literal scene from that quest.

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27 minutes ago, StallordD said:

Warframes have the same rules applied to them that Dax do. Ie - they can't harm those that bear the Kuva.

Now unfortunately, this is difficult to represent in-game other than nullifying damage, as having our frame freeze up and do nothing when so much as aiming at them would be a pain.

I think the dax just can't harm the because of their honor code, a sword to the face is a sword to the face, no matter who wields it. Warframes use exactly the same powers as the operator, just channeled into certain energy forms, so there is basically no logic why we can't hurt them.

 

It's a simple game mechanic. But I agree, it really destorys the combat flow.

 

Edited by Genoscythe
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5 minutes ago, Beggining said:

 

Wait, I got it - we can't hurt Teshin either when he wields the Orvius (which requires Kuva to build), nor the Kween when she wields the scepter. Though, it is rather odd that we can hurt the guardians when they are wielding the Twin Roggas, which also requires Kuva >.>

Guardians also bear Kuva in their Kesheg scepters.

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4 minutes ago, Genoscythe said:

I think the dax just can't harm the because of their honor code, a sword to the face is a sword to the face. Warframes use exactly the same powers as the operator, just channeled into certain energy forms.

 

You clearly didn't listen to Teshin during the quest.

He explicitly said that the Orokin, masters of genetic domination, gave Dax increased abilities and lifespans at the cost of making them LITERALLY unable to raise a sword against anyone bearing Kuva.

As for the frames = Operator thing, it's not quite that simple.

Frames are conduits. Lenses for the Operator's raw void energy. They use the pure chaos of the void as a battery to use their powers. That would be like saying that a sword and a gun are the same because they both use metal.

Edited by StallordD
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6 minutes ago, StallordD said:

As for the frames = Operator thing, it's not quite that simple.

Frames are conduits. Lenses for the Operator's raw void energy. They use the pure chaos of the void as a battery to use their powers. That would be like saying that a sword and a gun are the same because they both use metal.

...This also is a proof that people calling Warframes "Tenno" are wrong, isn't it?

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3 minutes ago, Transformau5 said:

...This also is a proof that people calling Warframes "Tenno" are wrong, isn't it?

I mean technically YES, but that's kinda pedantic.

Tenno pretty is pretty interchangeable and refers to them both as they're so intimately linked, but if you're being specific it's Operator vs. Warframe.

However, most people don't KNOW that, so they see the 'Tenno' as the person and the 'Warframe' as the thing they're wearing.

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5 minutes ago, Beggining said:

Yeah, I pretty much got that one :P the Twin Roggas throw me out of the loop though - maybe it just lacks enough Kuva to provide command to warframes, and thus invulnerability?

Oh, I see what you're talking about.

The whole 'Kuva in items' dealio.

I'm pretty sure Teshin was just parrying/dodging all our attacks. I remember trying to hit him once for fun and he backflipped out of the way then punted me across the room. Has nothing to do with the Orvius taking Kuva to build I think. Once we start fighting him for the brief encounter I'm ALMOST positive he has the Orvius on his back.

Edited by StallordD
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53 minutes ago, Beggining said:

It's because their Kesheg contains Kuva, which provides invulnerability (never explained how?) and is only intercepted by our Operator powers - when we use Void Dash, we are actually knocking their polearms away from them. It all just came out of nowhere during that fight, really.

If Kesheg make Kuva guardian immune to our ability, why are they immune to non-ability damage? (ie, weapon damage?). If so, why can we void dash into the worm queen to steal her specter when it has Kuva attached to it, which suppose to make her immune to our ability? (ie, Void dash)

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I wonder if possession of the scepter is meant to allow certain Orokin the ability to have Dax assault another Orokin, for reasons that might be such as compromising the empire or being plain heretical and the like. For the "never to raise a blade against an Orokin" seems to be almost pulled right out when the operator gets a hold on the scepter and can actually say these words to Teshin: "Kill her". 

I don´t really know what sort of science or magic prevent Kuva-bearing(on the weapon, not in its production) weapon-wielders from taking damage. Whether it is in the face of former Orokin subjects such as the warframes and the things "within that lens"(not referring to the operator, but some other tech in the frame's connection perhaps), or it applies to every person who comes in trying to get to the Queens, but it makes me curious as to how the Sentients threatened the Orokin. Must not be an absolute rule, but strongly held enough that physically we just couldn´t as we are.

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lore wise the warframes can't harm them until they loose their staffs because they contain kuva. which warframes being orikin tech are unable to harm someone with it. 

from a gameplay its just 'hey this unfinished mechanic has a use. we are forcing you to do to use it, enjoy' 

I look forward to be able to make my operator more useful for more than just this, but who knows how long that will be. 

 

Edited by morningstar999
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52 minutes ago, low1991 said:

If Kesheg make Kuva guardian immune to our ability, why are they immune to non-ability damage? (ie, weapon damage?). If so, why can we void dash into the worm queen to steal her specter when it has Kuva attached to it, which suppose to make her immune to our ability? (ie, Void dash)

That's a very good question, Maybe all our gear in some way is infused with void energy?

Remember the orokin catalyst? Forma?

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