Who here actually likes the lore changes post The Second Dream?

[More-L]

4 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

That'd definitely help.  Like I said a bit further up, they're currently useless to me, so I don't have any reason to care about them.  If they were more useful in fluff and crunch, then I'd like them more.  They're just, currently, strangling the more interesting parts of the lore (everything) and sucking up all the plot time.

Another thing I'd like to add is that (as you mentioned in your OP) your tenno appears in mission then gets 'killed' right? Try to think of it like corrupted vor. We destroy his supposed 'only' body but he still keeps talking through the void because he is 'energy.' I would consider operator's to be like that in a way, so long as either their warframe, ship power or body exist, they can never truly die. (basically, anything that holds even a fraction of their power allows them to exist, but this is kind of speculation)

It would have been nice if this was explained to us a bit more in the quest, but maybe we'll find out sooner or later.

Heck, we still don't know what we do with the billions of data vaults we steal from and give to the lotus, maybe we only steal 1 byte at a time?

[Nukesnipe]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

In a way I feel the same way... even though I like parts of the overall storyline they are doing with the operators. 

It feels so incomplete. The operators feel SO weak. Even against Kuva Guardians, the one place where we need them for now, they just feel incredibly pathetic. There is no scaling for their abilities, no way to see the stats. No way to scale defenses, nothing. And Focus was already a system that needed a lot of work, a lot of the powers need a look, nobody uses anything but passives, I could go on. The new operator walking around doing stuff system feels like it was supposed to be integrated with your chosen focus school/schools in order to allow you to scale your operator and make full use in missions of your chosen focus school. Really allowing you to specialize and make focus truly meaningful. 

But it feels like they had that idea in mind, but ran out of time to finish it, and decided to release only the very bare bones. And to be honest I am not happy with that. I think they should have waited to give us in mission operators until they had time to integrate it with our focus schools for scaling. After waiting about a year for TWW, it feels incredibly unfinished, like they just threw it out there half-assed. 

Imagine though, the actual possibilities if they did it right. If you had a really strong Naramon build that greatly enhanced your operators ability to stealth around, for example, and helped you have multiple stealth abilities/tricks/buffs. This could allow a clever Naramon player to easily deal with any stealth mission with completely unstealthy warframes. Just one example, but I just wish they had waited to release the operators until something like that was actually done. : ( 

Imagine if DE remembered that Archwing was a thing that they shoved out the front door way before it was actually ready, and went to make it a good system.

They should've, in my opinion, fixed Archwing and made it more than a gimmick before they went and released another incomplete thing.

[Hypernaut1]

i personally dont want to see the operators fighting and mixing it up with Grineer. I like the dichotomy of powerful warrior and mental power. To make the Tenno physically able to deal with enemies would diminish the power of the WFs in my eyes.  I agree with the decision to make the operators extremely weak compared to the frames, i disagree with forcing us to use transference in the middle of combat. IMO, using focus was great. It showed the extreme astral mental abilities of the tenno (invincibility and all), as our frames slumped to the floor. To make them just saunter out of the frame and teleport the frames them around the level at will just feels cheap. 

 

[Katinka]

30 minutes ago, Nukesnipe said:

My point is that he's insinuating that I don't pay attention to any of the lore, and that my entire argument should be dismissed as a result.

I'm sorry if you interpretted it that way as it was not my intention to say that you don't pay attention to any lore or that your entire argumant should be dismissed.  I was merely trying to point out that you appear to have a level of bias that may mean you are viewing the lore with a mind closed to some possibilities and may have filtered out some of the available information.  If my intention was to attack you then I wouldn't have bothered with the rest of the post and I am disappointed that you seem to have brushed it of as "because new lore says so" rather than considering that maybe, just maybe,the old lore can fit with the new if you think outside the box and read between the lines.  It's like we've been wearing red tinted glasses the whole time then someone takes them off us and we go "Ohhh... that's green not black..."

Edited November 19, 2016 by Katinka

[Sziklamester]

I didn't finished the SD to keep my own lore for myself but I see it can be a losing battle. As an old time player I used to like that state where we can Imagine anything about the tennos and warframes. With these quests They shaped totaloy different the game what supposed to be a mystery. They took the free vision from players who liked the warframes itself without any side notes and clear direction. This is why I personaly ignore it because not really fit for my headcanon this messed lore. Many players left the game because of it and still many like me still playing with his/her headcanon. If the operator could be mutable and totally ignorable as a sidekick or Just a side quest which not add too much for the experience then I would like to try these quests but after the spoilers and knowledge what will happen this is not a ground for me. For me the operator who controlled the ship in dark sectors and the frames will be my personal armors what I wear. For me the gameplay is more important than the aftercreated story.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Sziklamester

[devildevil21]

Answerin' to op's title, I actually liked the lore changes post TSD. Even post TWW.

 

Why? Well, to be honest I don't really mind which direction warframe goes.

 

When I was about to find out the "truth" about who commands the warframes in TSD, I wasn't thinking about operators, I wasn't thinking about an energy being. I was thinking about SOMETHING controlling the warframes, and no matter what the outcome could be, I would enjoy it.

 

The same is with TWW. This extra lore we've gotten, where we find out the "reality" that the operators went through, only spiked even more my curiosity about the warframes and the operators themselves.

 

In my honest opinion, I loved the creativity DE had when they made up the operators and their skills. It's a great mechanic, a fun mechanic and something DIFFERENT from the normal "Pro gun --> Pro warframe --> Easy mission" meta.

 

I don't know about you, op, but I loved the operators, and I still do. Try not to overthink what the REASON behind the operators is, try to instead think about what can possibly COME from this story line. 

 

I'll even quote overwatch: Don't think what the game is, think what the game COULD be.

 

Don't think about the current storyline, think about how much it CAN evolve and make the game an even better game!

[Nukesnipe]

2 minutes ago, Katinka said:

I'm sorry if you interpretted it that way as it was not my intention to say that you don't pay attention to any lore or that your entire argumant should be dismissed.  I was merely trying to point out that you appear to have a level of bias that may mean you are viewing the lore with a mind closed to some possibilities and may have filtered out some of the available information.  If may intention was to attack you then I wouldn't have bothered with the rest of the post and I am disappointed that you seem to have brushed it of as "because new lore says so" rather than considering that maybe, just maybe,the old lore can fit with the new if you think outside the box and read between the lines.  It's like we've been wearing red tinted glasses the whole time then someone takes them off us and we go "Ohhh... that's green not black..."

 

Fair point.

Lemme use an example from 40k, since I've mentioned it enough by now.  When Rogue Trader rolled around, Genestealers were a thing.  The word "Tyranid" never popped up, and they were these leech looking xenos scum that count actually dedicate themselves to a Chaos God.  When the Tyranids came out, Geedubs redesigned them and said "Hey, you know those Genestealers?  They're actually advance units of the larger Hive Fleets."  Some grognards threw a fit, but by and large Genestealers are one of the better parts of the Tyranid lore, and in fact are central to anything Tyranid related that doesn't involve a direct bug war.

In contrast, looking at, for example, Ember Prime lore.  Before the Operators came out, it was implied that the girl that was central to that story would become Ember, and that her powers would be amplified by the suit (considering that the Warframes were originally likely designed as suits, both on a meta level and fluff level.)  Now, just pointing at it and saying "oh she was just an Operator controlling a Warframe" just feels... lazy.  It doesn't feel like it makes any sense, and didn't go through any actual meaningful retcons besides a sort of 'shrug of God.'

[Katinka]

1 minute ago, Nukesnipe said:

In contrast, looking at, for example, Ember Prime lore.  Before the Operators came out, it was implied that the girl that was central to that story would become Ember, and that her powers would be amplified by the suit (considering that the Warframes were originally likely designed as suits, both on a meta level and fluff level.)  Now, just pointing at it and saying "oh she was just an Operator controlling a Warframe" just feels... lazy.  It doesn't feel like it makes any sense, and didn't go through any actual meaningful retcons besides a sort of 'shrug of God.'

I think I get where you are coming from with that.  With Operators all being free to use whatever they want, there is no reason for that lore entry to be about Ember, it's just about an Operator who burnt someone. Buuut... (and here's where I try to read between the lines and piece together something possible from different sources, second guessing DE's intent and ultimately not really anything beyond researched head-canon...) Vor describes the Warframes as glasses that shape our energy, allowing us to control and form the wild Void Energy to our liking, and the Excalibur codex entry says the Warframes were built around us as conduits of our affliction.  We now know the frames weren't literally built physically around the Tenno but perhaps they were metaphorically built around our needs?  So maybe the first Ember was made to suit the desires of the kid that burnt Kaleen, "Dream not of what you are but what you want to be", so the kid didn't want to accidentally burn people anymore and dreamt of being in control of the fire, shaping it to her will.  If we also consider that Nova was stated to be designed by the Tenno Council, that would also suggest that some frames may be designed according to the wants and preferences of Operators (although the Nova thing was probably just a nod to her Design Council origins, it can still fit into the story).

[Yaikser]

Grineer queen Worm specificaly says warframes are infested puppets that our tenno control, for me now they seem to be like the orokin infested weapon that dind't backfire (well it did but you know what I mean XD). They can be a symbiotic relation or a parasitic relation depends on how you look at it.

[BornWithTeeth]

16 hours ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

My only real problem with the lore currently is I don't believe the Tenno as presented here are capable of producing a culture or are old souls in young bodies. Let's face it, they are presented as teenagers, in looks, speech and attitudes.

Gameplay wise, having the operator all back of the bus wasn't a major issue for me but yes, I find the new mechanics worrying  for the future of the game. Appreciate the game has to evolve but its how it evolves and currently it's evolving in a direction I'm not fond of. It's becoming less Warframe, more Tenno and personally it's not what I really want. 

 

 

Yeah, see, when the Second Dream came out, I truly didn't mind that the Operators looked young, because I thought that DE were doing something genuinely clever and interesting. I thought that they were doing exactly what you said above, old souls in young bodies. I thought it was a frigging great take on the concept, that in the end what the Tenno are are people whose lives come in two parts: the first phase, a childhood in human bodies, interrupted by the horrifying intermission of Void contamination, experimentation, brainwashing, and combat training, followed by the second phase, an insane, hyper-violent adulthood in bodies not even remotely human. 
                                                          Everything about the Tenno before the Second Dream told us that they were stoic space samurai with the blood of hundreds on their hands and the lives of thousands on their shoulders. When the Second Dream dropped, my impression didn't change. So far as I was concerned, the Tenno who is my player character remained a cold-blooded ninja master, because he had spent fifteen years as a human youth, and then several times that entire span as a cool, careful war machine. Why should he break, why should he revert? His childhood remains just that. His childhood. The Tenno came from human children, this is true.....but for every season they ever lived as children, they spent a year as Warframes, amounting to an adult life. The Tenno designed weapons (Boar Prime, Dragon Nikana), laid out gorgeous, quiet water gardens, practiced delicate martial arts, served as assassins and bodyguards, founded great schools and mastered the ways of the Void, were in all ways adults in their capabilities........but DE have disregarded this. Completely disregarded it, in all ways.

 

I was completely fine with the Operators looking like children, but now I find myself agreeing with people who say that they need to physically grow up, for a very sad reason: Digital Extremes are going to continue treating the Operators as children in absolutely every way until they no longer physically appear children. Who designed the Dojos? Not these kids. Who practices intricate martial arts? Not these kids. Who builds weapons equally delicate and destructive? Not these kids, they're too busy whining about being called, uh, kids.
                    A couple months back, I asked DE how much of their time as Warframes the Operators remembered, and the answer I got was that that information would be revealed in The War Within. Well. We got an answer alright. The answer is that it is irrelevant whether or not they remember the years they spent as Warframes. Regardless of anything that they have ever done, regardless of the dangers they have faced, regardless of sprawling military operations and ballsy raids on orbital fortresses that they have executed, regardless of hours spent in silent watchfulness as bodyguards, or coldblooded murders dressed as assassinations they have committed, it doesn't matter. It didn't change them. They never grew up. They remain, intellectually, emotionally, in all ways, in every regard, children.

 

 

I am kinda disgusted, to be quite honest. No stoic space samurai. No sneering inhuman murderers, balanced by insanely courageous inhuman heroes. No martial artists. No cunning weaponsmiths. No contemplative builders of gardens in the depths of space. Just crying children. I hate to say it, but the people who hated Second Dream were right. They were right all along.

 

The mind that was in the Warframes cannot have been that of the Operator, because each and every Operator is a sniveling child who throws a tantrum when they are reminded of how young they are. These pathetic brats did not build the Dojos, did not learn inner discipline and focus, did not carry out flawless military raids. The time they spent as Warframes, any training which they have ever received, it might as well have been nothing but a bad dream. A 'lucid, second dream'? Pffff. They remember nothing. They learned nothing. The Tenno effectively died when they awoke, and must now relearn everything that they had ever become.

Edited November 20, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[Kazzamo]

You are right, the Tenno of the Orokin era died when they woke up. Their dreams of what they were, the thought that the frames were their bodies.. all gone. They remember now, and thanks to Teshin they remember even more... the horror, why they are called demons.... the truth of the Void seeping in and whispering to them again. No one is here to put them back to sleep this time, to quiet the voices. The survivors of the ten zero are changing rapidly in ways that even those that have known them the longest are unsure of where they will end up now.

[rand0mname]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMindIsAPlaythingOfTheBody, maybe?

In defense of the Operators, while some of the reactions were childish, some were not. Walking in a blizzard, tearing a bone out of a hip, remembering what happened to Mom and Dad and not crying in the corner, dealing with that Orokin traps, fighting the Red Kween and winning, returning to the Kuva Fortress, running around in that frail, weak, small body and kicking Kuva Guardians... how many children could do that?

As for that “not a child” line - I suspect all teenagers encountered a problem of a voice that sound squeaky and petulant at the most inconvenient moments ;)

[arolust]

18 minutes ago, rand0mname said:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheMindIsAPlaythingOfTheBody, maybe?

In defense of the Operators, while some of the reactions were childish, some were not. Walking in a blizzard, tearing a bone out of a hip, remembering what happened to Mom and Dad and not crying in the corner, dealing with that Orokin traps, fighting the Red Kween and winning, returning to the Kuva Fortress, running around in that frail, weak, small body and kicking Kuva Guardians... how many children could do that?

As for that “not a child” line - I suspect all teenagers encountered a problem of a voice that sound squeaky and petulant at the most inconvenient moments ;)

ok lets break it down

1) Walking in a blizzard, I imagine most kids wouldnt just sit in the freezing cold when they know theres a path and possible shelter ahead. So yes, I would say kids do this.

2) tearing a bone out of the hip, yes kids would pull it out, and many ignorant adults might as well, though you really shouldnt remove it, and should instead dress it while its in till your in a more stabalized situation due to the eventual blood loss, and possible resulting death. In fact iv had a nail going through one side of my foot out the other as a kid, pulled it out, learned later was a bad idea was told I almost nicked the bone by removing it.

3-8) Ill give you the no tears thing, but given their whining and annoying character id say thats less kid and more script. As for the remaining ones, which can pretty much summed up as "Fighting" id like to point out their kids WITH SUPER POWERS. Refer to every teenage superhero story ever for the rest.

Edited November 20, 2016 by arolust

[Faeduin]

 

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

 Digital Extremes are going to continue treating the Operators as children in absolutely every way until they no longer physically appear children. 

From a writers stand point, they purposefully did a lot to mature the Operator in TWW and have that reflected in the characters we interact with throughout, so I disagree with this assessment heavily.

6 minutes ago, arolust said:

ok lets break it down

1) Walking in a blizzard, I imagine most kids wouldnt just sit in the freezing cold when they know theres a path and possible shelter ahead. So yes, I would say kids do this.

2) tearing a bone out of the hip, yes kids would pull it out, and many ignorant adults might as well, though you really shouldnt remove it, and should instead dress it while its in till your in a more stabalized situation due to the eventual blood loss, and possible resulting death. In fact iv had a nail going through one side of my foot out the other as a kid, pulled it out, learned later was a bad idea was told I almost nicked the bone by removing it.

3-8) Ill give you the no tears thing, but given their whining and annoying character id say thats less kid and more script. As for the remaining ones, which can pretty much summed up as "Fighting" id like to point out their kids WITH SUPER POWERS. Refer to every teenage superhero story ever for the rest.

There is no need to break down what he said, children are just as diverse as adults with the ranges of their emotions and problem solving skills. We are shown this with the corpse of the presumed Tenno at the entrance to what I'll affectionately call the mind cave. We are explicitly shown that others (or at least one other) have walked this path before and given up to wither and die, this is to directly contrast the choice our Tenno make in facing the coming trial.

As for the rest of the thread and the OP's poll, looks like a pretty clear lead is forming.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Kedai said:

 

From a writers stand point, they purposefully did a lot to mature the Operator in TWW and have that reflected in the characters we interact with throughout, so I disagree with this assessment heavily.

 

The thing there is that they had to have the Operator start maturing at all. In other words, nope, all that time spent literally fighting an interstellar war doesn't count, the Operators learned nothing and have not grown up. The people they were before the Second Dream are gone and do not exist anymore, they have reverted to being children.

[Teloch]

1 hour ago, BornWithTeeth said:

They never grew up. They remain, intellectually, emotionally, in all ways, in every regard, children.

 

 

I am kinda disgusted, to be quite honest. No stoic space samurai. No sneering inhuman murderers, balanced by insanely courageous inhuman heroes. No martial artists. No cunning weaponsmiths. No contemplative builders of gardens in the depths of space. Just crying children. I hate to say it, but the people who hated Second Dream were right. They were right all along.

 

 

My thoughts exactly but in the more civil form.

I tip my hat to thee, good sir or ma'am.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Teloch

[BornWithTeeth]

7 minutes ago, Teloch said:

My thoughts exactly in but in the more civil form.

I tip my hat to thee, good sir or ma'am.

The only hope now, and I mean this seriously, is if DE decide to take the story in something resembling the following direction:

 

The stoic, hyper-competent Tenno of the Orokin Era did exist. However, they were a product of extreme brainwashing, and having woken from the Second Dream, the Tenno broke that brainwashing. Functionally, the gestalt mind formed between the Operator and the Warframe died when the Dream ended, and now all that remains is the Operator.....so the Operator better serious the **** up in a real hurry. In other words, it's time for the Tenno to become, for real, the warriors that the Orokin brainwashed them into being, except this time on their own terms.

 

 

 

_{(Because the alternative is starting to look worryingly likely: Warframe is the story of whining children throwing tantrums at the controls of their xbox, in SPAAAAAAACE, forever.)}

Edited November 20, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[Teloch]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

The only hope now, and I mean this seriously, is if DE decide to take the story in something resembling the following direction:

 

The stoic, hyper-competent Tenno of the Orokin Era did exist. However, they were a product of extreme brainwashing, and having woken from the Second Dream, the Tenno broke that brainwashing. Functionally, the gestalt mind formed between the Operator and the Warframe died when the Dream ended, and now all that remains is the Operator.....so the Operator better serious the **** up in a real hurry. In other words, it's time for the Tenno to become, for real, the warriors that the Orokin brainwashed them into being, except this time on their own terms.

 

Won't happen. It's impossible to squeeze weaponsmithing / martial / philosophic schools / culture from emo kids. There will be no logical justification to all those pieces of lore we read about pre u18 tenno, unless DE decides to turn the spotlight back to the warframes, and to state that the tenno are particular separate cells of the huge hivemind (hinted in the Rhino p codex) that requires these annoying brats to be evoked from the abovementioned hivemind.

But, that is just faint optimism. DE decided to go the "Disney" way, showing us the anime emotional picture of heroic indigo kids throwing cringy feats and then acting like cartoon heroes from the late nineties. DE tries to pull the "wow-factor" trick and to tickle our sympathies. Too bad for them, a large part of their audience is rational adults who have an allergy for this sort of "lore". 

Also, I'd say that there is no hope to see any reason or seriousness in the WF universe. The irrevocable damage is done and we will have to see more of the "idiotic teens save the galaxy" series

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Teloch said:

Won't happen. It's impossible to squeeze weaponsmithing / martial / philosophic schools / culture from emo kids. There will be no logical justification to all those pieces of lore we read about pre u18 tenno, unless DE decides to turn the spotlight back to the warframes, and to state that the tenno are particular separate cells of the huge hivemind (hinted in the Rhino p codex) that requires these annoying brats to be evoked from the abovementioned hivemind.

But, that is just faint optimism. DE decided to go the "Disney" way, showing us the anime emotional picture of heroic indigo kids throwing cringy feats and then acting like cartoon heroes from the late nineties. DE tries to pull the "wow-factor" trick and to tickle our sympathies. Too bad for them, a large part of their audience is rational adults who have an allergy for this sort of "lore". 

Also, I'd say that there is no hope to see any reason or seriousness in the WF universe. The irrevocable damage is done and we will have to see more of the "idiotic teens save the galaxy" series

The really annoying thing is that it really did not have to be like this at all. Second Dream could still have gone the way that it did, the War Within could still have unfolded, all that would have been necessary was to not write the Tenno as idiotic children who remember nothing and learned nothing from their entire experience of being Warframes and going to war.

[Faeduin]

28 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The thing there is that they had to have the Operator start maturing at all. In other words, nope, all that time spent literally fighting an interstellar war doesn't count, the Operators learned nothing and have not grown up. The people they were before the Second Dream are gone and do not exist anymore, they have reverted to being children.

They were dreaming and we don't yet know the ramifications of that if we ever will, so assuming that they would pick up emotional or habitual responses while dreaming and still exhibit those once awake is a stretch. We also need to keep in mind that it hasn't been that long (potentially a few years compared to the implied hundreds if not thousands since Orokin times) since we were not only woken up, but activated as it were, to save us once Vor found our cryopod. We could very well be amnesiac from the time before, there just hasn't been enough lore to make an informed decision like the one you are championing yet.

4 minutes ago, Teloch said:

Won't happen. It's impossible to squeeze weaponsmithing / martial / philosophic schools / culture from emo kids. There will be no logical justification to all those pieces of lore we read about pre u18 tenno, unless DE decides to turn the spotlight back to the warframes, and to state that the tenno are particular separate cells of the huge hivemind (hinted in the Rhino p codex) that requires these annoying brats to be evoked from the abovementioned hivemind.

But, that is just faint optimism. DE decided to go the "Disney" way, showing us the anime emotional picture of heroic indigo kids throwing cringy feats and then acting like cartoon heroes from the late nineties. DE tries to pull the "wow-factor" trick and to tickle our sympathies. Too bad for them, a large part of their audience is rational adults who have an allergy for this sort of "lore". 

Also, I'd say that there is no hope to see any reason or seriousness in the WF universe. The irrevocable damage is done and we will have to see more of the "idiotic teens save the galaxy" series

Tell us how you really feel? Again, as far as the poll in this thread is going your thoughts are the quickly diminishing minority among these rational adults. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, just tout it less as fact.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Kedai

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

The only hope now, and I mean this seriously, is if DE decide to take the story in something resembling the following direction:

 

The stoic, hyper-competent Tenno of the Orokin Era did exist. However, they were a product of extreme brainwashing, and having woken from the Second Dream, the Tenno broke that brainwashing. Functionally, the gestalt mind formed between the Operator and the Warframe died when the Dream ended, and now all that remains is the Operator.....so the Operator better serious the **** up in a real hurry. In other words, it's time for the Tenno to become, for real, the warriors that the Orokin brainwashed them into being, except this time on their own terms.

It might be better if they make it so the lotus suppressed their old selves when she woke them from tsd, to give them a fresh start or something? They can find this out in the next quest and demand ther memories returned. it's not like it's totally out of left field, it's certainly something the Louis would do for "her children".

[Teloch]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

The really annoying thing is that it really did not have to be like this at all. Second Dream could still have gone the way that it did, the War Within could still have unfolded, all that would have been necessary was to not write the Tenno as idiotic children who remember nothing and learned nothing from their entire experience of being Warframes and going to war.

 

DElogic at it's best.

Also, it's funny how we had some disputes on this topic "teeno being infantile idiots" earlier this year (like 6-7 month ago), and now our positions coincide.

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, Teloch said:

DElogic at it's best.

Also, it's funny how we had some disputes on this topic "teeno being infantile idiots" earlier this year (like 6-7 month ago), and now our positions coincide.

The War Within happened, and it turned out that you were right. Sigh.

[Teloch]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)obsidiancurse said:

It might be better if they make it so the lotus suppressed their old selves when she woke them from tsd, to give them a fresh start or something? They can find this out in the next quest and demand ther memories returned. it's not like it's totally out of left field, it's certainly something the Louis would do for "her children".

 

If that would happen, I'd hope they will provide us with the option "to wipe out lotuse's memory and personality in return"

[BornWithTeeth]

29 minutes ago, Kedai said:

They were dreaming and we don't yet know the ramifications of that if we ever will, so assuming that they would pick up emotional or habitual responses while dreaming and still exhibit those once awake is a stretch. We also need to keep in mind that it hasn't been that long (potentially a few years compared to the implied hundreds if not thousands since Orokin times) since we were not only woken up, but activated as it were, to save us once Vor found our cryopod. We could very well be amnesiac from the time before, there just hasn't been enough lore to make an informed decision like the one you are championing yet.

 

That still leaves us with a bit of a problem.

 

Dojos. Clans. The Great Schools. Weapons like the Boar Prime, Dragon Nikana, and Karyst. Martial arts styles.

 

Where did all of that come from? If the Tenno are now and always have been a bunch of sniveling children, then where the Hek did all that evidence of there being a real Tenno culture come from?

 

 

 

EDIT: Look, try putting it this way. When the Second Dream dropped, there were a lot of people who hated it because they saw the Operators and had a kneejerk response of "Children?! Children bad and lame and stupid!" To this, a whole bunch of people who thought that the Second Dream was super cool (myself included) responded that no, the Operators were the Tenno, that this is what we always had been, that it didn't invalidate all that had happened, all that we were capable of, and all that we had learned.

 

Then the War Within came out, and it turned out that Digital Extremes themselves agreed with the first camp. The Operators are just children. They are kinda stupid and lame. Look, we're gonna have them go on a big quest to start maturing and learning valuable life lessons, and maybe someday they can even approach being half as capable, mature, composed, competent, and emotionally resilient as it seemed when they were just the Warframes. Seriously, one day they'll be super cool again, after another five or six cinematic quests.

Edited November 20, 2016 by BornWithTeeth