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Give us the ability to reroll selected 'lines' of our Rivens.


Glitch_Kitten
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On my quest to make fun, mediocre weapons more viable I have come across the situation in which I have a near perfect roll, yet the negative or mediocre stat(s) ruin the mod completely and I'm forced to reroll once more.

Example:

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Personally I'd like to have atleast the option to dictate what stats don't get rerolled, so I can work towards a more useful mod. I respect the fact that people will abuse this to get 'perfect rolls' and I wont lie, so would I but as it stands currently, I'd prefer something like that, as apposed to just throwing the mod at a wall every time I reroll.

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It defeats the entire purpose of the riven mod system, if every body can relatively easy make an "ideal" mod for a weapon of their choice. In order for the ideal mod to be valuable and worth having, a precious piece of loot and not just the power creep of the week, it has to be hard to get.  We're only a week in people!

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...Supra has a Riven mod? It's not that bad on its own.

The 4th stat, usually detrimental, is there to balance the first 3 beneficial ones which in this arrangement are usually powerful enough to be their own mods. Any Riven mod that worth using is going to have some sort of detriment. My Tetra Riven mod has +202.3% damage, no recoil, and +113.7% status, but -44% damage to Grineer, the one faction that's weak to a puncture weapon, the game just says "yeah you know that one enemy faction that this gun's made for, we're gonna cripple your damage against them". Still deals a decent amount of damage, but fair enough. It's just normal balancing.

It's like saying corrupted mods shouldn't have a negative stat.

Besides, the lower rate of fire might actually be useful, just to limit Supra's ammo consumption. So it's not all bad.

You should probably reroll and try getting a flat damage increase though, instead of just puncture, and heck, you don't have to accept the reroll result now.

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Re-Roll four stats with a infinite scaling price in my opinion is to much.
It's this -> 3/25*2/24*1/23*1/26= To get the perfect mod.

To get a Good mod,not perfect with lets say half of the stats are good in any circustance for any weapon 12/25*11/24*10*23*13/26= ~0.05
To get a Good mod  with 3 positive stats 12/25*11/24*10/23= ~0.1
To get a Decent 2 stat mod 12/25*11/24=0.22

Other thing I would like to say is,In my personal opinion to every weapon there's only 7 stats that will be always favorable to every weapon, wich are the 4 elemental damages, base dmg increase, and either the crit chance and dmg, or status chance and duration, and will consider this ones independently of each other, because normally every weapon will benefit from either one or the other. So the above calcs lets say are generous because some weapons can benefit from other stats. Otherwise a 3 stat mod without a negative stat would look like this 7/25*6/24*5/23=0.015 let's say 2%....

Obvious for the perfect mod I won't post the number I don't want to scare no one off.

This don't take in account the chance for you to get the actual mod for the desired weapon obv.

If you are happy with half the stats available for the mods the numbers should represent your chances.

Each roll is independent from each other don't forget because you can't lock none of the stats.
So your chances don't improve everytime you roll.

Because of that maybe I should have done the calculations other way that are more unfavorable..ALTOUGH
 I'm no statitiscs analyst,nor mathmatician, so I might be wrong. If you know better please correct this.
 

28 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

 

 

44 minutes ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

 

52 minutes ago, Momaw said:

 

1 hour ago, RavenCorella said:

 


I just quoted you guys to check if the calcs are correct and if you think that this takes away the rarity of the mods, not taking into account the chances to get the mod for the weapon you want, or how much kuva you need to farm and the time it takes.
If you want I can try to make this calcs too. Altough like I said I'm no expert. And there's a post on other topic already those calcs.

And also I would like to ask if your opinion is still the same after reading this?
Lastly I respect any opinion, so if you keep yours it's all good.


 
 

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Sorry, duplicate.

Just want to say that I would like to at least be able to lock 1 stat when I roll. And only one at a time, if I want to lock another I'm forced to re-roll the mod again.
I think it would be fair. Considering the costs and the chances of tgetting that mod in the first place.

 

Edited by BBOTAA
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15 minutes ago, BBOTAA said:

Sorry, duplicate.

Just want to say that I would like to at least be able to lock 1 stat when I roll. And only one at a time, if I want to lock another I'm forced to re-roll the mod again.
I think it would be fair. Considering the costs and the chances of tgetting that mod in the first place.

 

I still think the same cause it will force people to exclusively focus on top tier weapons' rivens by giving them a chance to make an even more perfect mod for already good guns. It is a good idea but I believe that rivens as they are now are good enough, making you consider accepting some drawbacks to keep a really good stat you got. That kind of dynamic is mostly lost on keeping individual stats even if just one.

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6 minutes ago, BBOTAA said:

Re-Roll four stats with a infinite scaling price in my opinion is to much.

The scale pricing bothered me. I don't see why it's not fixed considering it's RNG. It's not a hard cap, but it puts a limit to how many times a player can viably reroll the mod, but still has a chance of getting nothing useful at the end. The mod and the effort to reroll can end up being completely worthless if none of those rolls are any good, first acquiring the mod through sorte, then dumping 50k kuva, doing all that and end up with nothing is going to be painful especially on old weapons that require it to be competitive, which is what these mods were meant to be.

Not too sure if what you calculated there is relevant, considering the number on each stat can also vary, from this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L2k7w9IIaQedlTs0sVAiIFc0-ByewwQHcTVY8nXWrBo/view#gid=0 , so it's entirely possible that each of the multipliers needs to have another multiplier applied to them to account for the range of values. The whole thing is just an RNG nightmare.

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2 hours ago, RavenCorella said:

Uh, no lol. These mods are already overpowered, I get it that people want the ideal mod for every weapon they like in their arsenal,  but come on...

Actually, 95% of Riven mods are pure garbage. The system is a complete fiasco at the moment, so serious improvements need to be made.

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22 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

I still think the same cause it will force people to exclusively focus on top tier weapons' rivens by giving them a chance to make an even more perfect mod for already good guns. It is a good idea but I believe that rivens as they are now are good enough, making you consider accepting some drawbacks to keep a really good stat you got. That kind of dynamic is mostly lost on keeping individual stats even if just one.

I respect that you keep your opinion.

May I ask, just by curiosity , did you calculate the change of getting the perfect mod on a re-roll?

I won' tell you the number, but I will tell you this, If you live in the United states you have more chance of being struck by a lightning than rolling that mod.

Fun facts... lol

And as @AlphaSierraMike mentioned, That number doesn't take in account the flutuation on the percentages on the mod, because they are not fixed. 

So even if you keep that one stat by locking it on a re-roll, that stat is probably not shared with mods for the same rifles,be it positive or negative.And if you have 3 good stats, you have a negative garantee wich should be the drawback so the kind of dynamic you mentioned is always kept,that and the balance they did for the weapons wich I don't remember the name now, but the classification of weapons and it won't be needed to fall a lightning on your or my head for any of us to get that mod lol :crylaugh:

 

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the whole riven mod system should have been closer to combining mods to create a unique mod. weak can hold 2 common mods, normal a common and uncommon or 3 common, and a strong 2 uncommon and a common. the combined mods must be max rank and are consumed. With stats being reset to base.

Limit the strong varients to the more under used weapons. and behold the community going wild with creativity.

as far as the new resouce goes it could have been used to unlock ranks on the riven mods by having all fresh rivens start with only one rank and able to unlock up to 8 ranks.

Edited by Core_Hunter
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19 minutes ago, BBOTAA said:

I respect that you keep your opinion.

May I ask, just by curiosity , did you calculate the change of getting the perfect mod on a re-roll?

I won' tell you the number, but I will tell you this, If you live in the United states you have more chance of being struck by a lightning than rolling that mod.

Fun facts... lol

And as @AlphaSierraMike mentioned, That number doesn't take in account the flutuation on the percentages on the mod, because they are not fixed. 

So even if you keep that one stat by locking it on a re-roll, that stat is probably not shared with mods for the same rifles,be it positive or negative.And if you have 3 good stats, you have a negative garantee wich should be the drawback so the kind of dynamic you mentioned is always kept,that and the balance they did for the weapons wich I don't remember the name now, but the classification of weapons and it won't be needed to fall a lightning on your or my head for any of us to get that mod lol :crylaugh:

 

It's not as much the probability as much as what the system incentivizes in the players. the proposes system stimulates going for perfection more so than as it is now and I think that's a good thing as it seems by design you're made to basically roll your luck and find new fun things to try instead of focusing on getting the best stats on one mod. However unlikely it is, the suggestion you make kinda guides players to doing that and I do not support it. 

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My perspective on the matter did not change either. As someone mentioned earlier, 95% of the mods are bad, if there's 5% of them out there that are good, the system works as intended. Lemme put it this way:

Currently:

>Guy gets lucky after doing sortie

>Guy rerolls said mod, which may just be a Tonkor with crits & multi

>Guy sells said mod for 1500 platinum to some dude

>Guy uses those extra plat to buy cosmetics that get converted into real money value.

_____________________________

Your idea:

>Guy gets lucky and gets a tonkor

>Guy rerolls said move, each individual stat a couple of times till he gets crits and multi

>Guy tries to sell the mod, but the market is flooded with the same class of mods because everyone can get it by farming kuva for a few hours, nobody will buy it for more than 150;

>Guy goes in a mission and everyone in the squad has OP rivens for soma, tonkor and whatever else that instakill people up  to level 80, then they *@##$ about balance and game being too easy, then DE buffs scaling and newbies have to suffer.


That's how I see it. You wanna be a god? Pay 3k plat like everyone else or pray to RNGod like everyone else and hope for some luck.

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22 minutes ago, Major_Phantom said:

It's not as much the probability as much as what the system incentivizes in the players. the proposes system stimulates going for perfection more so than as it is now and I think that's a good thing as it seems by design you're made to basically roll your luck and find new fun things to try instead of focusing on getting the best stats on one mod. However unlikely it is, the suggestion you make kinda guides players to doing that and I do not support it. 

Sorry but I got to disagree, with the new fun things fallacy, no new mechanics where introduced with this mods, no new stats to alter perfomance of the weapons were introduced, so there are no new fun things, that couldn't be done before. If you want to achieve anything with a weapon with riven mod, you had the possibility to do before also,because there are separated mods that can achieve that, this only allow you to do what was possible before but with more damage, by saving some mod space.

And I'm not suggesting anything to anyone, I'm sharing my opinion and some facts,the best I can, I never asked anyone to support what I say or to try anything, so don't jump into unecessary conclusions about what I said. If anyone does or say anything it wasn't because I told them so, It's because they want to. 
So please however unlikely it is, don't point your finger at me for whatever other person decides to do. It doesn't make sense I don't guide anyone into doing nothing like you suggested.

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