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Speed Runners vs People who take their time


Big_Gunz
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I don't like to complain about speed running PUGs on the forum.

-Edit Yaerion: content moderated-

 

Anyhow DE.

 

Here's the issue:

1)  A person who speed run thru the map will alert a room of 20 enemies.

2) That same speed runner has already left the room.

3) Then the slower player shows up and gets ganked by the 20 alerted enemies.

 

The problem is that this two game play style doesn't help the slower players (or even most newer players).

Also, this AI style only reward speed runners.

The AI can't keep up with someone who goes from 1 room to another in 3 seconds.

There's no trap for someone going from room to room really fast.

 

Can there be an option for people who love to speed run always join players who speed run.

And people who like to loot lockers and search every room or kill every enemies get in a group that does the same.

Edited by Yaerion
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Just now, IoKusanagi said:

The Cameras and Lazer barriers in Corpus and the Arc Traps in Grineer Tilesets.

All activate after said player has gone through and are a hinderance for the slow player.

OP; you're talking about improved matchmaking.  I'd love to see a simple interface that lets you choose between speed mission or loot mission.

 

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I dont see a problem here.

 

If youw ant to open every locker and kill every enemy (you want to play in your speed) you should play solo or use the recruitment chat. If you join a PUG group you have to adapt that not all players share your speed and most simply want to get the map done. Adding an UI for this is pointless as it would simply be ignored by most players.

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I surely do support the argument, tho it's best when you find a chance to do a time limited mission that's easy or decently challenging to take on solo at best.
This problem of speed runners are most common on Nightmare missions.   Sometimes I end up with one player who ends up going too far ahead and dies while the rest of the squad take the time to survive.  Kinda funny when that dude complained how slow we were, where the real challenge is team work. |D

But in any who, best to just shrug it off and let the player be alone ahead.  I've seen worse where some will get so cocky about their Mastery rank and gear.  I have encountered some who thinks where the best with a tank warframe- mainly Rhino Prime or Regular.  As most smaller warframes actually survive the longest like Nova.  Or Trinity.

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1 hour ago, ThunderTitz said:

people who like to loot lockers and search every room or kill every enemies get in a group that does the same.

You're killing every enemy anyway. The speed runner is just helping agro them for you first. 

On a side note... people like me won't stop and slow down just because someone wants to hunt lockers. My gear and mods are done. I'm not there for that. I'm there to get the mission done so I can get my reward and repeat. I know it's sad to say but it really depends on the mission you're running. If it's a rescue or survival or hijack or anything less common than capture or exterminate, then sure take your time. But for those other 2 game modes they're common and people that join them generally do so with the purpose of doing them quickly. (Rusulka kuva farms anyone?) Join that mission to wander around getting loot crates and people will complain that your &#! is slow and wonder just what the f*** you're doing running about when they have to wait a minute for you to exit so they can restart

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1 hour ago, SarahApple said:

Play solo

People speed run because there is no real point in going slow in a grind game

 

 They would earn more if they take a bit longer, and they would be team players if they work with others.  The person going slow doesn't need to play solo, the person that skips everything needs to know what they actually need and go for that and work with people doing the same things.  The person speed running should take the time to do better rather then join some mission they don't need and skip everything and not play while making the mission worse for other players.

 Mostly, we all just need some matching preferences to improve grouping with people that are actually agreeable and working towards the same goal.

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3 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

You're killing every enemy anyway. The speed runner is just helping agro them for you first. 

On a side note... people like me won't stop and slow down just because someone wants to hunt lockers. My gear and mods are done. I'm not there for that. I'm there to get the mission done so I can get my reward and repeat. I know it's sad to say but it really depends on the mission you're running. If it's a rescue or survival or hijack or anything less common than capture or exterminate, then sure take your time. But for those other 2 game modes they're common and people that join them generally do so with the purpose of doing them quickly. (Rusulka kuva farms anyone?) Join that mission to wander around getting loot crates and people will complain that your &#! is slow and wonder just what the f*** you're doing running about when they have to wait a minute for you to exit so they can restart

I've been in that position before, however, if you're there just for Speed runs why aren't you going solo? Or making a speed run team? There are some players who can't access resources through normal routes, and have to rely on alerts to get things like Nano spores. So they have to open lockers and break containers to get the stuff they need.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to open up the debate of who should behave a certain way in public missions. But if someone's going to tell another person that they should go solo just because public missions are supposed to be for speedrunners, then I will play Devil's Advocate and point out that they are the ones that have the option of going solo as well.

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It's more or less a result of the spawning script in this game and the fact enemies drop nothing of value anymore.

What's the point in killing those 20 enemies when 20 more instantly spawn?

If the objective of the mission has nothing to do with killing those enemies, it's best to just ignore them.

That's what this horde shooter mentality has caused and It's not really the player's fault.

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This has been an "issue" since closed beta, solo mission, bring something that can clear mobs in your way, or get a personalized team of friends is all I can recommend.

Edited by SandDune
Had to be more specific on "beta" since I sometimes forget Warframe is still technicly in "beta"
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The speed runner is going fast because he wants it to be over with. The solution is not to slow him down with "friendship" doors and traps. It's to make the game fun so he WANTS to slow down. Otherwise he's going to just bolt to extraction then AFK until the timer runs out.

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if people looking to Speedrun weren't s...ty Players / mega casuals - they wouldn't be playing in Public.
because it's more efficient to play in a Private Session, and it's also less rude to other Players to do so too!

so if people are really trying to play Missions as fast as possible, if they're playing in Public, they're doing it wrong and they're stupid.

 

basically if you want to do something that is drastically out of scope of the usual expectation for a Mission - meaning either Speedrunning or breaking every single Pot and opening every single Locker - don't play in Public. you'll achieve your goal better, and you won't be as rude to other Players.

tl;dr if you want to play a Mission super fast or super slow, git gouda and stop playing in Public. if you are, you're a scrub. so get good, scrub.

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I understand that speed runners are bored with the game that they speed run it.

I see that after 6 months of play (going on year 3), the game gets a little bland time-to-time.

(But maybe I'm misunderstanding a lot of the speed runners' post as in saying, "be like me or gtfo off Warframe").

 

As for solo play.

Sometimes I want to play with others and meet new people (don't make this a sin).

 

All I'm asking for is a simple solution from DE.

An option that states:

1) Public - Speed Runner

2) Public - Explorer Runner

And an option to toggle back and forth.

 

Some days I want to explore.

Some days I have less time and just wanna speed run.

This shouldn't be a punishment to play this game.

Edited by ThunderTitz
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one of the other issues I have seen with some of the speed runners is if they join a pub squad that runs slower they constantly wine and complain that the team is going to slow so the same goes for them if they want to speed run stuff then don't join pubs run urself

exploring is good to do for those who don't have plat and want to get the things

some missions are easier when speeding but others aren't

new players will get turned off if they join a game with people and are still trying to learn and they get a $&*^ that just wines and complains and is rude to them

think of when u was new and still learning the game u may or may not have needed help with this stuff

De should do something to help both sides make a choice for speed runners and explorers the traps don't work to slow people down unless u are a slower person

 

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Find people who want to play at the same speed as you, simple, but complaining about how most people have played this game from the start does no good at all. Last time de tried to fix speed running everyone got stuck as a slow &#! with stamina unable to do anything. 

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21 minutes ago, GSGregory said:

Find people who want to play at the same speed as you, simple, but complaining about how most people have played this game from the start does no good at all. Last time de tried to fix speed running everyone got stuck as a slow &#! with stamina unable to do anything. 

That's the thing.

This doesn't have to be hard to sort out.

Look at Spy missions (used to be random layout spy vault rooms that took time and was fun for some; now, they are just same setup after the QQ nerf).

 

Things don't have to promote or punish play-style.

 

All DE has to do is make an option to party with the correct play-style group.

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21 minutes ago, ThunderTitz said:

That's the thing.

This doesn't have to be hard to sort out.

Look at Spy missions (used to be random layout spy vault rooms that took time and was fun for some; now, they are just same setup after the QQ nerf).

 

Things don't have to promote or punish play-style.

 

All DE has to do is make an option to party with the correct play-style group.

Man.. if only there was thing thing called recruitment chat where you could find like minded people to play with... Or if only there was some sort of clan system where like minded players could gather to play together. Man if only those things existed. But since those magic other worldly things don't exist I guess the better option is to split all matchmaking in half and make it harder for everyone to find a quick game. 

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4 hours ago, Xebov said:

If youw ant to open every locker and kill every enemy (you want to play in your speed) you should play solo or use the recruitment chat.

You know, I often speed run missions, But this kind of argument is not really okay. Taking your time is a legitimate playstyle in warframe. It may not be as good in terms of rewards, but if someone prefers to go slower they aren't "doing it wrong." So slower players (and newer players) have just as much right to a reasonable PUG experience as the speedrunning vets. Telling someone to play solo if they don't play the way you do is not really helping anything.

 

3 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

On a side note... people like me won't stop and slow down just because someone wants to hunt lockers. My gear and mods are done. I'm not there for that. I'm there to get the mission done so I can get my reward and repeat. I know it's sad to say but it really depends on the mission you're running. If it's a rescue or survival or hijack or anything less common than capture or exterminate, then sure take your time. But for those other 2 game modes they're common and people that join them generally do so with the purpose of doing them quickly. (Rusulka kuva farms anyone?) Join that mission to wander around getting loot crates and people will complain that your &#! is slow and wonder just what the f*** you're doing running about when they have to wait a minute for you to exit so they can restart

This is also a good point. I gotta say, it's really irritating to get to extraction and then sit around for several minutes waiting for somebody who's just wandering around willy-nilly. Especially if it's an invasion, or some mindless alert, and I'm trying to finish so I can get back to what I actually want to do. Everybody has the same right to a tolerable public experience, and right now it's quite frustrating for all involved.

I'm usually against matchmaking filters based on MR or other player metrics, but this one I would support. Being able to choose "speed run" in public matchmaking would make things less frustrating all around. The only issue is: I think most people will choose "speedrun," so new players who can't go fast will have a very hard time getting into missions with experienced players. I think that new players should be able to do missions with more experienced players, so this is a potential problem.

Overall, though (and tl;dr) I think this is a good idea.

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9 minutes ago, GSGregory said:

Man.. if only there was thing thing called recruitment chat where you could find like minded people to play with... Or if only there was some sort of clan system where like minded players could gather to play together. Man if only those things existed. But since those magic other worldly things don't exist I guess the better option is to split all matchmaking in half and make it harder for everyone to find a quick game. 

While recruitment chat is a possible solution. I have used it quite a few times back in the day of tower keys.

As for clans and friends, you are depending on another person. which isn't always a bad thing, but it also isn't always reliable. For clans, you have a bunch of clans that promise certain things, but when you join, you are half of the time left by yourself, either because of different time zones, or inactivity of the clan (or most of the members), or the clan is very laid back to the point where helping is a chore, and no one wants to do it. Friends are great, especially if they are people you know irl. Problem that might arise is if they will stay interested. The availability of said friend. 

This game isn't very hand holding, which can be a good thing, but the solutions of "go solo, don't pub" , "find a clan" , "find in recruitment chat" or "go with a friend".
While they are technically answers. The reality is that those "answers" or kind of non-answers, as it is not realistic. But then again player expectation also isn't realistic.

If you go into a pub, the correct mentality is to adapt your flow to the flow of the team. If they are hunting for marks, ayatan stars, or just exploring w/e. Then if you are a speed runner, you can help out, and make it go faster. This is the least confrontational mentality. Or you can just quit the party.

If you go into the pub and the rest of the team is speedrunning, then you, as an explorer type, can quit, or speedrun with the team.

If you preach teamwork, then work with the team, or leave. Whining and complaining about it won't help much, but maybe to alleviate some stress you built up? In which case it would kind of come out as white noise, and people on the forums will just give their typical responses, that usually aren't helpful to you. Or can technically help, but it ends up not being the answer you were looking for.

That's all I can say on this subject.

Gotta say it's refreshing to see this type of topic pop up after so long, haha.

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Just now, VoidWraith said:

While recruitment chat is a possible solution. I have used it quite a few times back in the day of tower keys.

As for clans and friends, you are depending on another person. which isn't always a bad thing, but it also isn't always reliable. For clans, you have a bunch of clans that promise certain things, but when you join, you are half of the time left by yourself, either because of different time zones, or inactivity of the clan (or most of the members), or the clan is very laid back to the point where helping is a chore, and no one wants to do it. Friends are great, especially if they are people you know irl. Problem that might arise is if they will stay interested. The availability of said friend. 

This game isn't very hand holding, which can be a good thing, but the solutions of "go solo, don't pub" , "find a clan" , "find in recruitment chat" or "go with a friend".
While they are technically answers. The reality is that those "answers" or kind of non-answers, as it is not realistic. But then again player expectation also isn't realistic.

If you go into a pub, the correct mentality is to adapt your flow to the flow of the team. If they are hunting for marks, ayatan stars, or just exploring w/e. Then if you are a speed runner, you can help out, and make it go faster. This is the least confrontational mentality. Or you can just quit the party.

If you go into the pub and the rest of the team is speedrunning, then you, as an explorer type, can quit, or speedrun with the team.

If you preach teamwork, then work with the team, or leave. Whining and complaining about it won't help much, but maybe to alleviate some stress you built up? In which case it would kind of come out as white noise, and people on the forums will just give their typical responses, that usually aren't helpful to you. Or can technically help, but it ends up not being the answer you were looking for.

That's all I can say on this subject.

Gotta say it's refreshing to see this type of topic pop up after so long, haha.

All those issue you mention are not going to disappear just because you split match making into speedrun and explore. And nothing would stop griefers either. 

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PTFO

If you want resources, then play a map type where your gathering them doesn't interfere with that, like a dark sector defense.  If you want to open every locker and smash every crate, then a 20 minute survival will let you do that, without forcing anyone to wait at the exit for you.

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