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RIVEN MODS FOR melee and secondary


Matt89Connor
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I don't really want more riven mods for melee and secondary if they're more of the same s*** that the rifles got. What I'd want would be mods that say... Gave chance to explode enemies on kill for melee. Or.. killing enemies gets simaris rep for secondaries. Something different than stats

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Just now, Matt89Connor said:

which problem? 

There's already a BIG issue with melee weapons. After the release of "Blood Rush" they became way too strong. The "infinite" scaling given by "Blood Rush" make them too strong, capable of killing level 200 enemies in a single swing. They don't need Riven mods at all, that would just ruin the melee experience even more.
The problems concering Riven mods in general are various.
RNG is the first one, I cycled my Cernos mod 16 times and I got nothing useful, and I can see people with uncycled riven mods with "+multishot, +crit chance, +crit damage, -zoom". I personally hate that my gameplay is affected by RNG, I hate that a player skilled as much as me would be stronger because he was luckier.
The second one is the scaling of some weapons:
I got a Simulor Riven I paid a lot for. Simulor (as well as many other weapons) Rivens got nerfed to the ground, and I lost about 50% on each bonus, but I still have "+86% damage, +92% crit damage, +94% fire rate" (I swapped it with my old "Vile Accelleration" gaining "+101% damage, +92% crit damage and +4% fire rate") and this is a great boost.
I bought an Amprex Riven too, and even with the nerf of its Riven I still got 224% critical chance and can't remember the critical multiplier. Allowing me to red crit on every hit, with a 24% chance of making a red red crit.
My Soma Prime has 105% crit chance and a 9,6x multiplier. 
And I can go on.
IMHO they should have released Riven only for unused weapons, I have always been loving things like the Latron, the Drakgoon and other weapons that I can't normally use cause they get outperformed by stronger weapons. Riven mods were a chance to balance the game a bit. I didn't expect the "bad weapons" to become better than common weapons, but it could have been a good chance or a good starting point to balance them out.

Just now, Matt89Connor said:

ps( are you ita? XD)

Si.

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18 minutes ago, Prepotenza said:

There's already a BIG issue with melee weapons. After the release of "Blood Rush" they became way too strong. The "infinite" scaling given by "Blood Rush" make them too strong, capable of killing level 200 enemies in a single swing. They don't need Riven mods at all, that would just ruin the melee experience even more.
The problems concering Riven mods in general are various.
RNG is the first one, I cycled my Cernos mod 16 times and I got nothing useful, and I can see people with uncycled riven mods with "+multishot, +crit chance, +crit damage, -zoom". I personally hate that my gameplay is affected by RNG, I hate that a player skilled as much as me would be stronger because he was luckier.
The second one is the scaling of some weapons:
I got a Simulor Riven I paid a lot for. Simulor (as well as many other weapons) Rivens got nerfed to the ground, and I lost about 50% on each bonus, but I still have "+86% damage, +92% crit damage, +94% fire rate" (I swapped it with my old "Vile Accelleration" gaining "+101% damage, +92% crit damage and +4% fire rate") and this is a great boost.
I bought an Amprex Riven too, and even with the nerf of its Riven I still got 224% critical chance and can't remember the critical multiplier. Allowing me to red crit on every hit, with a 24% chance of making a red red crit.
My Soma Prime has 105% crit chance and a 9,6x multiplier. 
And I can go on.
IMHO they should have released Riven only for unused weapons, I have always been loving things like the Latron, the Drakgoon and other weapons that I can't normally use cause they get outperformed by stronger weapons. Riven mods were a chance to balance the game a bit. I didn't expect the "bad weapons" to become better than common weapons, but it could have been a good chance or a good starting point to balance them out.

Si.

So let me get this straight. You say they should've made Riven Mods only for unused Weapons, yet 2 out of the 3 Mods you mentioned are for OP weapons. Also, Bloodrush did NOT make Melee THAT powerfull. Melee falls off after Lv 75~100 extremely hard, even Galatine Prime and the likes, and no Bloodrush or anything could help. The only thing Melee players like myself can do in LV 100+ Missions is Finishers with Inaros, Excal and similar, so idk where you got that "Killing Lv 200 with 1 Swing" from. Also, DE already rebalanced the Mods, so 90% of your issues are now gone.

 

B2T : I can't wait for Melee Rivern Mods. I'd love to use my Dual Skana, Dual Kamas prime again some more, or even Glaives, Dual Daggers and other underpowered Weapons that are fun to play. More Critchance and base Damage on most of them would be pretty sweet, but i agree that they should also add some more unique stats to them. "Get x% of your attacks damage as health" (similar to Flyff's Bloodsuck), "Get x% of stealth kill damage as energy" or something.

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Just now, Extroah said:

So let me get this straight. You say they should've made Riven Mods only for unused Weapons, yet 2 out of the 3 Mods you mentioned are for OP weapons. Also, Bloodrush did NOT make Melee THAT powerfull. Melee falls off after Lv 75~100 extremely hard, even Galatine Prime and the likes, and no Bloodrush or anything could help. The only thing Melee players like myself can do in LV 100+ Missions is Finishers with Inaros, Excal and similar, so idk where you got that "Killing Lv 200 with 1 Swing" from. Also, DE already rebalanced the Mods, so 90% of your issues are now gone.

 

B2T : I can't wait for Melee Rivern Mods. I'd love to use my Dual Skana, Dual Kamas prime again some more, or even Glaives, Dual Daggers and other underpowered Weapons that are fun to play. More Critchance and base Damage on most of them would be pretty sweet, but i agree that they should also add some more unique stats to them. "Get x% of your attacks damage as health" (similar to Flyff's Bloodsuck), "Get x% of stealth kill damage as energy" or something.

We probably play different games.
I do play Warframe, what about you?

I said that Riven mods should have been made only for unused weapons, but DE made them for all weapons. I got 15 Riven mods, and most of them are for OP weapons cause this is how they want us to play. Why should I waste time formaing a weapon like the Hind when a weapon like Simulor will be stronger? That was the point of my point but you clearly didn't understood.
Blood Rush MAKE THEM that powerful, with a 4x combo you can hit really hard, reaching red crits on almost any weapon, and red red crits on Fragor Prime.
http://i.imgur.com/IxR7qaJ.png: eHP of a level 200 Grineer Ballista.
http://i.imgur.com/G8EohAJ.jpg: me with a 3x combo multiplier hitting 90k per hit, without channeling, with Nikana Prime.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/7/7c/5.5X_Combo_confirmed.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160429161633: pic showing a player that achieved the 5,5x multiplier.
With the proper build and the proper frame you can hit for over 300k per hit with ease.

Now imagine a melee weapon that starts with 80% crit chance instead of the standard ~20%. At 4x multiplier it would be completely broken. (I keep talking about 4x multiplier cause it's REAAAAAALLY easy to achieve).

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2 minutes ago, Prepotenza said:

We probably play different games.
I do play Warframe, what about you?

I said that Riven mods should have been made only for unused weapons, but DE made them for all weapons. I got 15 Riven mods, and most of them are for OP weapons cause this is how they want us to play. Why should I waste time formaing a weapon like the Hind when a weapon like Simulor will be stronger? That was the point of my point but you clearly didn't understood.
Blood Rush MAKE THEM that powerful, with a 4x combo you can hit really hard, reaching red crits on almost any weapon, and red red crits on Fragor Prime.
http://i.imgur.com/IxR7qaJ.png: eHP of a level 200 Grineer Ballista.
http://i.imgur.com/G8EohAJ.jpg: me with a 3x combo multiplier hitting 90k per hit, without channeling, with Nikana Prime.
http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/7/7c/5.5X_Combo_confirmed.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160429161633: pic showing a player that achieved the 5,5x multiplier.
With the proper build and the proper frame you can hit for over 300k per hit with ease.

Now imagine a melee weapon that starts with 80% crit chance instead of the standard ~20%. At 4x multiplier it would be completely broken. (I keep talking about 4x multiplier cause it's REAAAAAALLY easy to achieve).

Riven Mods for OP Weapons got weakened a lot, so that part of the argument, again, is not really relevant anymore.

Also, My Zenistar with that thing you can't even call a Crit Chance does 75k Damage with one swing, though i was invisible. But that still doesn't say a lot. I've excessively used a Crit-Based Nikana Prime with and without Bloodrush and Bodycount, and never in my almost 4 Years of playing did i 1-hit kill anything above Lv 100, if even Lv 75. Maybe Infested, but they die like flies anyways, could probably even 1-hit Dagger them to death. And i'm not talking about Butchers or something, but Heavy Gunners or Bombards, or even Eximus, which are more likely to spam high level Missions/Sorties. Also, your Screenshot isn't really relevant/valid either, it's against an Infested Lv 30.. try and 1-hit Swing a Lv 100 Bombard (which wont work) then we talk. :P

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1 hour ago, Extroah said:

Riven Mods for OP Weapons got weakened a lot, so that part of the argument, again, is not really relevant anymore.

Also, My Zenistar with that thing you can't even call a Crit Chance does 75k Damage with one swing, though i was invisible. But that still doesn't say a lot. I've excessively used a Crit-Based Nikana Prime with and without Bloodrush and Bodycount, and never in my almost 4 Years of playing did i 1-hit kill anything above Lv 100, if even Lv 75. Maybe Infested, but they die like flies anyways, could probably even 1-hit Dagger them to death. And i'm not talking about Butchers or something, but Heavy Gunners or Bombards, or even Eximus, which are more likely to spam high level Missions/Sorties. Also, your Screenshot isn't really relevant/valid either, it's against an Infested Lv 30.. try and 1-hit Swing a Lv 100 Bombard (which wont work) then we talk. :P

You clearly didn't read my first post. I stated that Riven mods for OP weapons got weakened.
I couldn't try Zenistar yet cause I am a fairly new player, I just got Azima.
I was able to hit for billions during the Tennocon Alert (level 9999 enemies) with Covert Lethality but this isn't what are we talking about.
I had a bunch of screenshot of me hitting 800k per hit (with various multipliers) with Scindo, but I can't find them right now.
I'll be recording a new Survival soon.

A bunch of math before leaving:
e.g. melee weapon with 20% crit chance.
2,0x multiplier (3,8x with "Organ Shatter") and 32% critical chance with "True Steel". (That's Galatine Prime)
Blood Rush gives 165% crit chance per multiplier. Meaning that with a 5x combo multiplier you will have an added 825% crit. Meaning you would get an added 165% critical chance, going from 32% to 197%, meaning that 97% of the time you will be doing red crits. The red crit damage multiplier is 6,6x. Looks good right?
Now let's talk about Fragor Prime now: (35% base crit chance and 2,5x multiplier) (56% crit chance and 4,7x multiplier with crit mods).
With 5x combo multiplier you will have a total of 344,75% crit chance. meaning you will have a 44% chance of doing red crits level 4. level 3 red crits provide 13,1x multiplier, while level 4 red crits provide 17,8x multiplier. Looks even better right?
Let's imagine now going to 10x combo multiplier, we would have a total critical chance of 609,5% crit chance. Level 6 crits have 27,2x multiplier, while level 7 ones have 31,9x multiplier.
Considering combo multiplier doesn't have any limit "POTENTIALLY TALKING" you can reach infinite damage per hit.

I'll be doing my best to prove you wrong in a Survival mission.
Anyway my math already showed that they are broken. Adding Riven mod would be simply worse.

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3 minutes ago, Prepotenza said:

You clearly didn't read my first post. I stated that Riven mods for OP weapons got weakened.
I couldn't try Zenistar yet cause I am a fairly new player, I just got Azima.
I was able to hit for billions during the Tennocon Alert (level 9999 enemies) with Covert Lethality but this isn't what are we talking about.
I had a bunch of screenshot of me hitting 800k per hit (with various multipliers) with Scindo, but I can't find them right now.
I'll be recording a new Survival soon.

A bunch of math before leaving:
e.g. melee weapon with 20% crit chance.
2,0x multiplier (3,8x with "Organ Shatter") and 32% critical chance with "True Steel". (That's Galatine Prime)
Blood Rush gives 165% crit chance per multiplier. Meaning that with a 5x combo multiplier you will have an added 825% crit. Meaning you would get an added 165% critical chance, going from 32% to 197%, meaning that 97% of the time you will be doing red crits. The red crit damage multiplier is 6,6x. Looks good right?
Now let's talk about Fragor Prime now: (35% base crit chance and 2,5x multiplier) (56% crit chance and 4,7x multiplier with crit mods).
With 5x combo multiplier you will have a total of 344,75% crit chance. meaning you will have a 44% chance of doing red crits level 4. level 3 red crits provide 13,1x multiplier, while level 4 red crits provide 17,8x multiplier. Looks even better right?
Let's imagine now going to 10x combo multiplier, we would have a total critical chance of 609,5% crit chance. Level 6 crits have 27,2x multiplier, while level 7 ones have 31,9x multiplier.
Considering combo multiplier doesn't have any limit "POTENTIALLY TALKING" you can reach infinite damage per hit.

I'll be doing my best to prove you wrong in a Survival mission.
Anyway my math already showed that they are broken. Adding Riven mod would be simply worse.

Where did you get the Infos about the Crit-Levels from? Last time i've heard anybody talk about it there were Crits, Redcrits and nothing above that.

And yeah i've seen some pictures (we're talking about 1 out of 10000000) that have almost half a million damage hits, mostly with Scindo Prime, but i've yet to replicate that as i think it was soooo specific that it's almost impossible to do that in every Mission. Lack of Enemies, too much distance between them, etc.

Anyways, i still dont think that you can 1hit Kill anything above LV 75 in a NORMAL Gameplay Situation. Even with 3.5x Combo i had a hard time killing Lv75+ (heavier units, again) in the old Void due do the absurd Scaling. In theory, yeah, i agree with you. If you only cound the Crit Stats and damage Stats, yeah, theoretically you could 1hit Lv 150 Enemies, but if you then count in Armor, IPS type Resistance/Weakness etc, you'll see that you won't get far with Bloodrush and Bodycount.

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6 minutes ago, Extroah said:

Redcrits and nothing above that.

I dont know if his math is right about the crit dmg stacking that highly but every 100% you have above redcrit is indeed more damage
thats what makes the mod bloodrush so good

Edited by Vesiga
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31 minutes ago, Vesiga said:

I dont know if his math is right about the crit dmg stacking that highly but every 100% you have above redcrit is indeed more damage
thats what makes the mod bloodrush so good

Thanks for the Info if that's the case, i've always thought it was capped after the first stage of Red Crits.

But even with that i doubt that it's possible to 1hit kill anything above Lv 75-100 :x

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Riven mods should be a thing that is implemented in every aspect of the game including frames and abilities. The game is in desperate need of variety.  The way mods work right now, there isn't much room for unique builds for frames or weapons. I think a game where everyone can have their own unique build, or at least to a certain extend would be more appealing to the player base.

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I'd like a riven mod for my most used secondary: the angstrum (seriously it's something like 19% more used than any other secondary I own or have ever used). However not the boring stat stuff we have in riven mods at the moment. I want something like life steal or some effect that leaves poisonous clouds or summons a giant space mongoose - something different!

 

I'd also like a riven mod for my orthos prime, as that is a good weapon, but really feels lacking compared to the new melee weapons.

 

More importantly, I'd like them to improve riven mods so they aren't just a huge ball of nasty RNG.

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1 hour ago, Prepotenza said:

Let's imagine now going to 10x combo multiplier,

Yeah, 10 million hits to get that seem reasonable. Overall the usual multiplier you can reach is 4x with 4.5x or above being ridiculously long endurance runs. By that time you are also going to get oneshoted by just about anything, so it's a oneshot vs oneshot, except if you die you lose the combo counter and go back to square one. The only way would be Naramon's ShadowStep, which BOOSTS melee damage and it's the only way to oneshot everything at lvl 45-70. At lvl 100 and beyond you will likely oneshot if you have both Shadowstep (so you aren't also oneshoted by everything) and at least 4x combo counter, and then you will only oneshot fragile units like Lancers and Ballistas, you will mostly do jacksh*T to Napalms, Bombards and Hyekka masters, they will probably die from Bleeds rather than your pitiful hits.

I seriously hope DE continues with Riven mods for Melee and Secondary weapons, and I think they are planning to do so, they just released Rifle only mods for testing purposes.

Edited by Nazrethim
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3 hours ago, Extroah said:

Where did you get the Infos about the Crit-Levels from? Last time i've heard anybody talk about it there were Crits, Redcrits and nothing above that.

And yeah i've seen some pictures (we're talking about 1 out of 10000000) that have almost half a million damage hits, mostly with Scindo Prime, but i've yet to replicate that as i think it was soooo specific that it's almost impossible to do that in every Mission. Lack of Enemies, too much distance between them, etc.

Anyways, i still dont think that you can 1hit Kill anything above LV 75 in a NORMAL Gameplay Situation. Even with 3.5x Combo i had a hard time killing Lv75+ (heavier units, again) in the old Void due do the absurd Scaling. In theory, yeah, i agree with you. If you only cound the Crit Stats and damage Stats, yeah, theoretically you could 1hit Lv 150 Enemies, but if you then count in Armor, IPS type Resistance/Weakness etc, you'll see that you won't get far with Bloodrush and Bodycount.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Critical_Hit <- this is where I read about critical levels, I noticed I missed something in my calculation.
Anyway I probably exaggerated saying that level 200 mobs can be onehit killed, I was just trying to point out how strong the combo Blood Rush + Body Count can be (now you can add Drifting Contact too for a total of 3s + 12s+ 10s=25s of combo duration).
I tried to keep in mind the armor and the various resistances gained from levels, and considering the insane scaling it might be hard to actually kill a level 200 target with a single hit. But you can easily kill level 100 targets with ease, I remember myself playing Chroma with my beloved Scindo Prime and killing Heavy Gunners and Bombards with a singe hit (Chroma has a great damage multiplier btw, so it might be his fault).
I'll be doing a Mot run soon and I'll record that.

Back in the topic: I really hope Riven mods won't be released for other weapons. But they are probably going to do so, I should get used to it.

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10 hours ago, Hyacinth said:

I really think they should stop releasing more of this "luck-based" mods.
 

  Reveal hidden contents


It's time to stop!
168ygcl.jpg

 

This. so much this. but it is inevitable as i see it. DE is earning money from WFBigspenders to get what they want.
also, you are right on this luck-based mods. i already forgot how many times i rerolled all of my rivens (i collect 20-30k kuva/day since update) and still not getting a good one.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

-snip-

Its just people who hated the riven just accepted the fact that its not gonna get removed.
Quite alot of players quits too after the riven release.
 

 


The goal of riven mods is to make other "weak"/"not popular" weapon to be used again.
DE should just put the riven mods available to only to them. not to other weapons that is already strong.
and i still not feeling the "riven nerf" on the strong weapons because they are already strong and riven mods even gives them some more.

Edited by Hibike
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29 minutes ago, Hibike said:

Quite alot of players quits too after the riven release.

Not entirely quits but its going there. thats why DE triggered to fix the Rivens cuz more players are playing less time now cuz even mods are effected by RNG.

 

30 minutes ago, Ailissa said:

I really don't believe that at all.

 

I can accept a couple of people leaving but a lot .... nope.

 

 

Not many but its going there. people are just back to check if RNG on riven new rerolling could get em a better stats. sadly its still rng.

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6 hours ago, Extroah said:

Thanks for the Info if that's the case, i've always thought it was capped after the first stage of Red Crits.

But even with that i doubt that it's possible to 1hit kill anything above Lv 75-100 :x

I've been able to one shot a lv 135 - viral procs are magic. 

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