Jump to content

Trials Need To Be A Lot More Accessible


Tesseract7777
 Share

Recommended Posts

The truth is that sorties and trials are basically supposed to be the endgame. Sorties are played a fair bit, but most people will tell you they need to be more rewarding. DE has been working on this, moving weapons and Nezha, talking about no Endo 2000 more than twice in a row, etc. But Trials are still a huge problem. 

They are a part of the "endgame" that the vast majority of players completely neglect. Trials are only done by a few hardcore clan groups for the most part, all who are extremely experienced. Even for longtime, well equipped VETERANS, trials are not accessible. This is a huge problem. And it is one of the reasons many players say there "isn't an endgame". There could be, if the trials weren't in need of such improvements. 

What Do I mean by accessible? What I mean is that finding a group to actually run them with is quite hard if you aren't already experienced at them -- it is a catch 22. But this isn't because most players are jerks! Most players in Warframe are happy to help others in need, but many aren't willing to give new people a try in trials. Why? Because it already costs a good bit for the key, you have to invest a fair amount of time in doing the trial, and one little mistake by a newbie to trials in the wrong stage can lead to instant mission failure for everyone. ONE. Little. Mistake. And It's goodbye mission, and the salt flows, and that newbie, even if people aren't mean to them about it, feels really bad for screwing things up and feels much less like even trying to find a group in the future. If the group is mean about it, they may never try a trial again. 

Quite frankly it isn't necessarily that the trials are too complicated -- it is a coop game, and a trial is about getting eight people to work together. The problem is that trials, especially LOR at certain parts, have way too punishing fail conditions. This drives off anyone who hasn't done a trial from ever learning them at all. 

They don't necessarily need to be redone, but I think DE should give them a pass to remove some of the more easy to trigger fail conditions, so that people who haven't tried trials aren't intimidated from even trying. 

What do you all think about this? Are trials fine, or do they need to be more accessible to those who haven't done them before, and have less punishing fail states? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand this frustration, but you can research raids before you do one. If they are end game you should be at the point where you understand how mechanics work such as Arson Eximus, Scorpions, Shield Lancers, and G3 can knock you off a pad causing mission fail. If you want to join a raid, I advise using Raid School Bus on discord and research the mechanics of the raid before attempting your first.

Edited by -1459.Voltage-
Link to comment
Share on other sites

big issue in trials is when you first play them, you don't know what to do other than looking it up on the net, since people do not know what to do naturally, it falls into disuse. second issue with trials, its all about cc and not about the guns you bring or the different warframes in general, it is a specific list of frames can do it and others cannot. i would love to take any war frame into trials to do it, but if it doesn't have cc or energy regen and the like, then your kinda excluded. 3rdly, your weapons are near useless, its less about playing the game, and more about micromanagement of the powers in use so that you don't get downed and slow the team down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, -1459.Voltage- said:

I understand this frustration, but you can research raids before you do one. If they are end game you should be at the point where you understand how mechanics work such as Arson Eximus, Scorpions, Shield Lancers, and G3 can knock you off a pad causing mission fail. If you want to join a raid, I advise using Raid School Bus on discord and research the mechanics of the raid before attempting your first.

I get that there are resources out there to help people learn. I get that there are some willing Tenno trying to help (I applaud them, and thank you for the resources you pointed me to), and I know the raid isn't impossible. 

But in my opinion, having such easy fail states makes players much less likely to try, it makes salt much more likely to flow if someone screws up, it punishes people too much for making a small mistake. Even a good player who knows how those mechanics work can screw up and get knocked of a pad sometimes, especially with the stress of trying to learn everything else. This is just one example, but I think it really does turn off way more people than you might think. 

I know I am not alone among veterans who can solo sorties without trouble, but are hesitant to learn trials properly, because they do not want to deal with the drama and salt if they accidentally make a mistake their first couple times and screw things up. I can hardly think of a mission where it is so easy for one player to mess things up for everyone so easily and so quickly, after so much effort had already been expended. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not sure whether to consider the Trials as endgame or not. Only broken combos can kill those enemies, that's why in every raid it's mostly just CC, CC, and more CC. Most of the time.

We probably need more raids that highlight other frames as well. Because usually, Excaliburs aren't recommended in LoR, maybe even JV.

Perhaps a Sentient-included Trial in the future?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LunarEdge7 said:

I'm not sure whether to consider the Trials as endgame or not. Only broken combos can kill those enemies, that's why in every raid it's mostly just CC, CC, and more CC. Most of the time.

We probably need more raids that highlight other frames as well. Because usually, Excaliburs aren't recommended in LoR, maybe even JV.

Perhaps a Sentient-included Trial in the future?

Well, DE adds puzzles to raids, and unless they force you to kill enemies for the puzzle *cough JV decryption cough* (intended to), then there is no reason to kill anything. And by making a drop like antiserum, it makes nekros a must run frame anyways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, -1459.Voltage- said:

I understand this frustration, but you can research raids before you do one. If they are end game you should be at the point where you understand how mechanics work such as Arson Eximus, Scorpions, Shield Lancers, and G3 can knock you off a pad causing mission fail. If you want to join a raid, I advise using Raid School Bus on discord and research the mechanics of the raid before attempting your first.

You should NEVER have to close a game just to learn how to play it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Kibbols123 said:

You should NEVER have to close a game just to learn how to play it.

You should NEVER have to exclusively trade for some items. Oh wait the prime vault exists .... 

DE doesn't do things the right way on the first 1-2 attempts, every person at end game knows this.

Edited by -1459.Voltage-
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, -1459.Voltage- said:

You should NEVER have to exclusively trade for some items. Oh wait the prime vault exists .... 

DE doesn't do things the right way, every veteran knows this.

That has nothing to do with your earlier statement, or mine. As far as that discussion goes, it's still all in-game and doesn't require you to close the game to do anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Kibbols123 said:

That has nothing to do with your earlier statement, or mine. As far as that discussion goes, it's still all in-game and doesn't require you to close the game to do anything.

Actually it does. If DE had better tutorials, trading would be very hard, people would turn away after seeing the stalkers drop percentages, and Trials would be filled with players who haven't done starmap because they would rather farm that for credits then akkad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, -1459.Voltage- said:

Actually it does. If DE had better tutorials, trading would be very hard, people would turn away after seeing the stalkers drop percentages, and Trials would be filled with players who haven't done starmap because they would rather farm that for credits then akkad.

That's an opinion/possibility. Not a fact.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seriously, read the guide.... do the normal LoR a few times and then u are good to proceed to the nightmare mode... theres nothing complicated about them once u know the drill.

and theres only ONE part of the whole trial that can make u actually fail and lose the key, wich is the fomorian core transport.... wich is only instant fail on NIGHTMARE mode....

 

hit me up ingame if u want to do runs ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, -1459.Voltage- said:

Well, DE adds puzzles to raids, and unless they force you to kill enemies for the puzzle *cough JV decryption cough* (intended to), then there is no reason to kill anything. And by making a drop like antiserum, it makes nekros a must run frame anyways.

the solution is to make enemies adapt to CC abilities (pretty much like sentients adapt to damage types). It would mean that in your second use of CC in the same enemies, they would be or less slower, or stunned / blinded for way less time, etc.. and in your 3rd use, they would be pretty much immune to CC. 
That would make damage dealer or support frames like Equinox, Ivara, Volt, Nezha or Titania more useful to help both damage dealers and CC frames to survive.
This way CC would work along damage as it should be IMO. CC should make enemies defenseless while you kill them instead of removing the need to kill them :s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MR 22, 1000+ hours on the game.

 

Tried and succeeded only a handful of trials.

 

I decided the hassle was not worth it and just bought an Arcane Energize set for 4k platinum.

 

10/10, would pay plat again rather than spam C.C and "solve puzzles".

Edited by NativeKiller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:

Seriously, read the guide.... do the normal LoR a few times and then u are good to proceed to the nightmare mode... theres nothing complicated about them once u know the drill.

and theres only ONE part of the whole trial that can make u actually fail and lose the key, wich is the fomorian core transport.... wich is only instant fail on NIGHTMARE mode....

 

hit me up ingame if u want to do runs ;)

 

Once again, for a chill game like this, if you have to go up on the wiki just to try out the raids and not have other players screaming at you..

Then this is worse than LoL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:
33 minutes ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said:

10/10, would pay plat again to skip content i cant clear because dayum those guides are complicated af! who needs content anyway, im just gonna let my wallet do the work

I am a F2P, my wallet doesn't do shiet for me. :3

Edited by NativeKiller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Viedra_Lavinova said:

I mean raids and sorties have barely any challenge or worthwhile rewards. Sorties are slowly getting better, but raids are as terrible as ever.

The LoR Raids are pretty much a joke, I agree. The basic rules are listen to the lead, stay on the buttons until told, hack terminals when told, CC enemies whenever possible, and kill any enemy that would hinder the ability to follow the other 4 rules. Ran with a group of 5, one of them new and also fairly drunk to the point of slurring and they still learned the run in a single go. Next day they were the one coming up with ways to better help streamline the run. Got it down to roughly 14 minutes with different people playing different roles, pretty much. The only newest hitch that has hit the LoR raid was the fixing of the nullifier drones on Nightmare, but prioritizing them fixes that up pretty decently.

As for JV its pretty straightforward, get the host to follow the inside team to prevent nearly all of the bugs that can happen due to latency and that pretty much seals it in. The only problem one may find after that is simply learning the steps inside for popping Jordas off his seat or playing archwing, which seems to be a problem for people for various reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My issue with raids is that nobody plays them in my clan, so the only way I could join one is the recruit chat with randoms. (I have only a few friends in-game outside of my clan)

That way people are telling me what should i use - I can do every role, but why people demand the "optimal frame + weapon combinations" or at least what they think is optimal?
 

Spoiler

 

For example, in LoR you need an EV, need 4xCP auras, and a loki is really handy in the 3rd stage for playing a decoy for Vay Hek. You need some CC on top of these, and you are good to go. Why is a max range frost worse than a blind mirage? Why would you need rejuvenation aura to counter the toxic damage in the 1st stage, when you have a trinity who can spam blessing? Because, they told so.

And they won't stop at telling what you should use: they have other wishes, like "loki should stand on the pads last" or "nova should drive the fomorian core" like it would matter. And if somebody tells them to chill out, they leave or start raging until someone leaves the party, possibly one of the key players.

Those players drive away many others from raids, and not just new players, but veterans too (like me). I'd rather play with an MR4 who can't kill anything, but is willing to listen, and does stuff he is told, than those MR22 (soon 23) who have maxed everything but always know better.


 

TLDR: recruiting a raid squad without a toxic player takes more time than completing the raid itself.

  • I'd say the raids should have work like the J3 assassination node: unlocked after a quest, and not key locked (looking at you, mutalist Alad V). The quest should teach you the mechanics encountered in the raid. (like how to defeat kuva guardians)
  • If you quit the raid, you can't join another one for 48 hours. (You can fail or complete as many as you want)

With these requirements, you could open the raids for public join.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...