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Why do certain frames and abilities go neglected for years?


waynexx
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I can't begin to fathom the reasoning; it can't just be 'resources', no. Is it actually such a low priority? How is it that Coclave has a crack team (or just one dude) on it constantly making adjustments, but certain abilities in PvE stay useless for years?

Edited by waynexx
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I understand how it can be frustrating to have personal favourite frames and abilities sit in the same state for such a long while (my Hydroid is powered by my tears).

But I could suggest that it is because Conclave has so little effect on the platinum economy. Whereas changes in PvE must either require much more thought, and probably more caution and hesitation as well, in case it has a ripple-on effect on this economy -- including any player outrage or exploits, both of which also affect this.

Edited by RunningTree3
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Just now, RunningTree3 said:

I understand how it can be frustrating to have personal favourite frames and abilities sit in the same state for such a long while (my Hydroid is powered by my tears).

But I could suggest that it is because Conclave has so little effect on the platinum economy. Whereas changes in PvE must either require much more thought, and probably more caution and hesitation as well, in case it has a ripple-on effect on this economy -- including any player outrage or exploits, both of which also effect this.

While this is thoughtful, it is clear a lot of abilities go into the game without such consideration. I really don't think I'm being unreasonable in saying this either.

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It's funny really, PvP in this game is just about meaningless, yet it has people actively working on balancing it, while as you said, OP, certain frames and abilities, like Banshee, remain S#&$ for years in the main bread and butter of this game.

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2 minutes ago, Imaru said:

To what are you referring? There are 30 unique warframes (47 counting primes) so you're going to need to specify which one you want knocked around a bit. 

It's a shout-out to all the neglected frames and abilities, none specific. I'm sure you know of a few. They've all been spoken on many times prior.

Edited by waynexx
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Just now, waynexx said:

While this is thoughtful, it is clear a lot of abilities go into the game without such consideration. I really don't think I'm being unreasonable in saying this either.

As a beta game, most of the consideration comes from having the large pool of testers (us). It's a pain in the &#! because were paying them to be that consideration.....but what can you do?

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Just now, waynexx said:

It's a shout-out to all the neglected frames and abilities, none specific. I'm sure you know of a few. They've all been spoken on many times prior.

Oberon comes to mind for sure. Limbo and Hydroid too, but I was more wondering if you were calling out any particular one(s). 

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4 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

It's funny really, PvP in this game is just about meaningless, yet it has people actively working on balancing it, while as you said, OP, certain frames and abilities, like Banshee, remain S#&$ for years in the main bread and butter of this game.

PvP players expect balance. PvE players rip DE's heads off if they try.

DE makes changes when they feel something is too brokenly powerful or when the vast majority of players will celebrate. They have been bitten by fury too many times.

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11 minutes ago, waynexx said:

While this is thoughtful, it is clear a lot of abilities go into the game without such consideration. I really don't think I'm being unreasonable in saying this either.

Not unreasonable at all. I was merely speculating on a possible reason. Not intended to excuse lack of development altogether. 

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11 minutes ago, Imaru said:

Oberon comes to mind for sure. Limbo and Hydroid too, but I was more wondering if you were calling out any particular one(s). 

I'm thinking more along the line of specific abilities: Valkyr's Rip Line, Zephyr's Dive Bomb (and Tail Wind, really), Titania's Tribute, etc. Even if they are frames you tend to use, there are often abilities that almost never get touched.

I wanted to avoid specifics though, because someone always chimes in with a way to use the ability while I'm only discussing balance (comparing things, not just usefulness in a void).

Edited by waynexx
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15 minutes ago, Artorius-Alter said:

It's funny really, PvP in this game is just about meaningless, yet it has people actively working on balancing it, while as you said, OP, certain frames and abilities, like Banshee, remain S#&$ for years in the main bread and butter of this game.

Many balances in Conclave stats are a result of feedback suggesting that a certain item is either overpowered or underpowered. But the majority of PvE players are self-entitled and hate it whenever anything they own see a reduction in stats. If PvE had the amount of balancing Conclave had, we'd see a "Vacuum Nerf" level shítstorm every week.

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4 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Many balances in Conclave stats are a result of feedback suggesting that a certain item is either overpowered or underpowered. But the majority of PvE players are self-entitled and hate it whenever anything they own see a reduction in stats. If PvE had the amount of balancing Conclave had, we'd see a "Vacuum Nerf" level shítstorm every week.

Of course, but I feel that they could simply buff base values on the weaker skills without any real repercussion (and why haven't they?). I'm not concerned with overpowered abilities so much as the arguably useless ones.

Edited by waynexx
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The conclave was created by DE to give an alternative to PVE, and it is not easy to create a PVP of this game, there are countless bugs that pop up like mushrooms in the woods, and for that, it needs constant repairs.
Regarding  of many Warframe not have yet received rework (zephir hydroid for example) I think it will make them when they come out the Prime version of these (they act in that way), also there are Rework, such as Nekros and Volt, needing help and  there are 1000 and more  feedback to prove it.
I conclude by saying that only Excalibur and Valkir had a  real rework ,the others, well, only half rework in my opinion.

Edited by Matt89Connor
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4 minutes ago, waynexx said:

Of course, but I feel that they could simply buff base values on the weaker skills without any real repercussion (and why haven't they?). I'm not concerned with overpowered abilities so much as the arguably useless ones.

Abilities that are "weak" are usually weak because they're fundamentally bad, such as Chroma's Spectral Scream which wouldn't be useful even if it were buffed.

Weak is also subjective: while Nekros' Soul Punch deals a base of 500 damage, this seems useless at high levels but may seem incredibly strong to a new player whose weapons can't hit anywhere close to that amount.

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I can see where you are coming from, but they do work on balancing these things just at a slower rate than pvp. Balanced warframes are more quintessential to good gameplay in pvp than they are in pve, I don't play the former but I understand the need for a dedicated pvp team. They've mentioned on several devstreams how they've been trying different things with Ash's bladestorm recently and how limbo is possibly next on the chopping block. The simple truth is that balance can be delayed for however long in pve but the same cant be done in pvp without souring the experience.

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13 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

Abilities that are "weak" are usually weak because they're fundamentally bad, such as Chroma's Spectral Scream which wouldn't be useful even if it were buffed.

Weak is also subjective: while Nekros' Soul Punch deals a base of 500 damage, this seems useless at high levels but may seem incredibly strong to a new player whose weapons can't hit anywhere close to that amount.

There are definitely instances where minor tweaks could go a long way; this 'low hanging fruit' would only be a starting point, of course.

I also don't think balance is usually considered for new players to begin with-- not should it be, if it were to effect endgame; a newer player probably wouldn't mind the power spike, but they would definitely mind the ability later falling off entirely (hence, this thread).

Edited by waynexx
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4 hours ago, waynexx said:

While this is thoughtful, it is clear a lot of abilities go into the game without such consideration. I really don't think I'm being unreasonable in saying this either.

Mirage #1 is one of those abilities... Banish is another.

 

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The same reason as for anything else. Rather introduce new content than fix the existing one Therefore the game got a thousand useless mods, a thousand useless weapons and warframes that usually have only 1 or 2 useful abilities but 50 of them instead.

Even if something is op it takes months to identify that and make a simple numeric change.

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17 minutes ago, waynexx said:

Has this sort of topic ever been officially addressed? I suppose I would be content just to know that they're aware and have a plan regarding this, regardless of time-frame even.

The only theyve mentioned regarding things like this is their bucket list of things needing fixes.

New content takes priority so sadly older stuff gets neglected for longer times. 

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7 hours ago, waynexx said:

It's a shout-out to all the neglected frames and abilities, none specific. I'm sure you know of a few. They've all been spoken on many times prior.

But, that's just it... not a single frame has gone for more than six months without an update or fix. Everything gets patched, even minorly, to keep the game from getting too far ahead of the frame.

8 hours ago, Lord_Datastorm said:

How about poor Zephyr, that frame is the most neglected of them all.

Look at Zephyr, a frame that has remained basically un-changed and seemingly neglected since inception more than two years ago, in terms of what it does at least, but the Turbulence ability is one of the most patched and updated abilities in game overall. Nearly constantly changed until the mechanics on it work exactly as originally intended with almost everything that's come into the game in the last two years.

At the very least, frames and abilities aren't neglected, they're constantly considered every time any kind of change is made.

If they weren't, broken combos would still rule the day, like the Greedy Gunslinger and so on and so forth.

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