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If I Were to Rework: RIVENS


Rehtael7
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As the title vaguely implies I'll be turning this into a series.

PREFACE

Spoiler

I think Riven mods are a dangerous but exciting addition. Currently, they are very flawed, but I trust DE to keep working and hopefully listen to the community on the Rivens.

ISSUES (I have)

Spoiler

Currently Rivens suffer from massive imbalance, painful Kuva costs, and excessive randomness.

Many weapons have strange dispositions and access to stats that are generally useless.

SOLUTION(S)

Spoiler

Step 1: Change the disposition system to a five-star system, with 5 star dispositions being reserved for the lowest of the low, like the MK1 Braton, the Burston, MK1 Paris, the stock Cernos, and 1-star dispositions being assigned to only the most powerful weapons, like the Soma, Tonkor, Simulor, etc. Ensure that weapon variants rank poorer than stock versions, particularly syndicate versions, primes, prismas and so on.

Step 2: Add new modifiers to the list.

  • +X% Base Crit Chance
  • +X% Base Status Chance
  • +X% Base Crit Damage
  • +X% Blast Radius (Weapons affected by Firestorm)
  • +X Shot Bounces (Non-Hitscan)
  • +X Seconds Combo Duration (Snipers)
  • -X% Armor on hit
  • +X Shield Penetration
  • Silenced
  • +X% Ammo Conversion
  • +X% Credit Drops on Kill
  • +X% Projectile Speed
  • +X% Range (Beams)

Step 3: Customize each weapon's available modifiers so ONLY modifiers which affect the weapon can be rolled, this includes negative traits. Also ensure that weapons with high base crit stats and base status stats do not have access to base crit and base status modifiers.

Step 4: Determine an equation that makes negative traits bolster positive traits. Step 3 ensures that negative traits must affect the weapon, meaning that negative traits behave more like corrupted mods, being a form of min-maxxing.

Step 5: Place a cap on the kuva costs. I don't care what it is.

Step 6: Give rerolls a chance to present an additional reroll option, allowing the player to rarely get a third choice. Have this chance be related to the kuva cost, so that with the new cap, the highest chance to get a third reroll is 50%, with the lowest starting at anywhere from 2% to 5%. This way at maximum kuva cost, you are at least getting value for your kuva 50% of the time in the form of an extra choice.

Step 7: Give players a way to reroll the weapon of their Riven mod. The cost of this could be endo, it could be credits, it could be platinum, it could be nitain, it could be a forma. Literally anything you want.

Step 8: Add unique modifiers to certain weapons based on their existing properties. This doesn't need to be done to all weapons, but should it take place, the unique stats should be listed in differently colored font to indicate their importance. Examples include:

  • Shots stick to surfaces. (Penta)
  • Scans targets on kill. (Helios Simulor)
  • Chance to freeze target. (Glaxion)

It's 1:37AM right now, so I'll Submit this topic here and add anything I think of later to the list.

Edited by Rehtael7
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Rivens can be fixed far far easier than this, imo....

1. Make them drop more often / also come from another source than Sorties (which is not RNG and where players can actually earn them rather than pray for them). This removes the extreme frustration they are causing players because acquiring them is pure RNG.

2. Allow 2 of them to be fused into a new veiled one. This removes the extreme frustration they are causing players because once you actually get them, there is a very very high chance they will suck anyway

Sorted.

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riven mods should not include damage modifiers.

  • +X% Base Status Chance
  • +X% Blast Radius (Weapons affected by Firestorm)
  • +X Shot Bounces (Non-Hitscan)
  • +X Seconds Combo Duration (Snipers)
  • -X% Armor on hit
  • +X Shield Penetration
  • Silenced
  • +X% Ammo Conversion
  • +X% Credit Drops on Kill
  • +X% Projectile Speed
  • +X% Range (Beams)

these are all good modifiers.

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4 hours ago, GhostlightX said:

1. Make them drop more often / also come from another source than Sorties (which is not RNG and where players can actually earn them rather than pray for them). This removes the extreme frustration they are causing players because acquiring them is pure RNG.

2. Allow 2 of them to be fused into a new veiled one. This removes the extreme frustration they are causing players because once you actually get them, there is a very very high chance they will suck anyway

Sorted.

Only that doesn't actually fix the balance issues, and doesn't address the issue with dispositions being very off-kilter.

 

4 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

riven mods should not include damage modifiers.

  • +X% Base Status Chance
  • +X% Blast Radius (Weapons affected by Firestorm)
  • +X Shot Bounces (Non-Hitscan)
  • +X Seconds Combo Duration (Snipers)
  • -X% Armor on hit
  • +X Shield Penetration
  • Silenced
  • +X% Ammo Conversion
  • +X% Credit Drops on Kill
  • +X% Projectile Speed
  • +X% Range (Beams)

these are all good modifiers.

Then they would be difficult to justify using, and would likely only be rolled for crit. Additionally, having damage values adds to the diversity of rollable stats. What should happen is a restriction is placed on the value of damage stats, so that they never exceed X amount.

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5 hours ago, Rehtael7 said:

Only that doesn't actually fix the balance issues, and doesn't address the issue with dispositions being very off-kilter.

 

Then they would be difficult to justify using, and would likely only be rolled for crit. Additionally, having damage values adds to the diversity of rollable stats. What should happen is a restriction is placed on the value of damage stats, so that they never exceed X amount.

some of us already want them to remove the damage mods from weapons and have them moved into being passive into weapons. more damage modifiers are just the bandaid to hide the fact that we need the Damage 3.0 pass and enemy scaling needs fixing. most weapons are viable for normal play 20min any endless mode and regular modes like exterminate hijack etc it when you start going over the regular play in endless that you see dmg falloff why? because scaling is broken to high heaven.

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20 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

some of us already want them to remove the damage mods from weapons and have them moved into being passive into weapons. more damage modifiers are just the bandaid to hide the fact that we need the Damage 3.0 pass and enemy scaling needs fixing. most weapons are viable for normal play 20min any endless mode and regular modes like exterminate hijack etc it when you start going over the regular play in endless that you see dmg falloff why? because scaling is broken to high heaven.

Then the solution would be to fix enemy scaling first, THEN rework the mods to fit the new model, not the other way around. But that's another matter entirely. This is just if I were to rework the Rivens, and only the Rivens.

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13 hours ago, Rehtael7 said:

Then the solution would be to fix enemy scaling first, THEN rework the mods to fit the new model, not the other way around. But that's another matter entirely. This is just if I were to rework the Rivens, and only the Rivens.

i didnt list an order i said we need both of those things. to even consider a riven rework those 2 conditions would have to be met or youd just be reworking rivens again after all the balance passes.

damage balance and enemy balance usually come at the same time not separate.

Edited by EinheriarJudith
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7 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

i didnt list an order i said we need both of those things. to even consider a riven rework those 2 conditions would have to be met or youd just be reworking rivens again after all the balance passes.

damage balance and enemy balance usually come at the same time not separate.

First you need to find a rate at which enemy scaling isn't just linear. It should have a square root curve, causing enemies to become powerful more quickly at low levels, but taper off at high levels, resulting in in them only starting to really slow down after they're just a bit more powerful than us. Once you figure out the mathematical formula for this, then you can rework the player's power, and adjust your formula to fit the new model. Player power is more of a linear rate with a plateau, so you just need the enemy power curve to fit that as closely as possible with a square root model, then exceed it around level 60.

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