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Ash Changes


Awazx
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Ash Changes:

- Bladestorm now has a new 'Mark Enemy' mode that is activated when you hit 4. Ash enters target mode, which you can freely target enemies with your reticule up to 3 times each for attack. Once you're satisfied, press 4 again.

- [DE] Rebecca

 

Dear DE, maybe you have not noticed, but your game is to kill mobs, hundreds of mobs, and it must be done in a matter of seconds. Warframe is not a tactical game. This new mechanic for Ash is a poor design decision and another indicator that you do not understand your own game.

Wait for results.

-Awazx

Edited by Awazx
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4 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

inb4: he claims pushing buttons is not playing a video game

No pushing one button is not.

Pushing multiple? Yes, and actually having to do something is (Referring to killing enemies). With Ash as he is, I can literally aim at a choke point on a defense, and just press 4 every... 10-15 seconds? Less? And kill most of the stuff on the map.

This change actually requires you to aim and mark the enemies you want to kill now, which is a good addition.

Edited by PoisonHD
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2 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

So it's buttons plural, so your earlier nit-picking was wrong.

I also find it funny because now they have to press the button twice, but it is essentially the exact same skill. How do you believe that fixes anything?

No it's still a single button. Which is 4. Its pressing a single button multiple times... its still a single button.

It fixes it because you actually have to aim to mark your enemies, and not have them auto-marked for you. Isn't that obvious? 

Edited by PoisonHD
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3 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

No it's still a single button. Which is 4. Its pressing a single button multiple times... its still a single button.

It fixes it because you actually have to aim to mark your enemies, and not have them auto-marked for you. Isn't that obvious? 

So making the skill more tedious, slower, and still making you hit 4 and wait somehow makes it better than hitting 4 and being forced to wait.

No, that's not only "not obvious," it is entirely illogical.

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1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

So making the skill more tedious, slower, and still making you hit 4 and wait somehow makes it better than hitting 4 and being forced to wait.

No, that's not only "not obvious," it is entirely illogical.

It doesn't make it tedious? It makes it fun, interactive, and allows for more control. That's how it makes it better, and yes I did say it makes it fun. Right now, sure its a skill that kills everything, but its incredibly bland. 

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1 minute ago, PoisonHD said:

It doesn't make it tedious? It makes it fun, interactive, and allows for more control. That's how it makes it better, and yes I did say it makes it fun. Right now, sure its a skill that kills everything, but its incredibly bland. 

If the argument is that cooking a chicken takes too long.

then logically speaking

making you catch, kill, clean, then cook your own chicken DOES not change anything to do with the original complaint.

Even if you mark your own targets, you are still eventually going to have to hit 4 again and sit and wait. Nothing changes.

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Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Even if you mark your own targets, you are still eventually going to have to hit 4 again and sit and wait. Nothing changes.

A lot changes... one of the main complaint is that Ash isn't interactive at all, not the wait time. Its the fact that he auto marks entire rooms with no effort, which I explained earlier....

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5 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

one of the main complaint is that Ash isn't interactive at all,

Like I said, as soon as you tap 4 a second time, it is right back to being non-interactive.

EDIT:

The point is, adding extra steps before the "problem" doesn't change the "problem"

Edited by (PS4)DesecratedFlame
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I get your point. Rework for ash is obviously nessesary, but what they are going to do is called "ruining" frame and make his strength less then average strength of warframes. Absolutely agree with you, take my upvote.

Edited by HelWan
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Well, you forget one thing: from what i heard in one dev stream each marked enemy will cost you energy, so you cant just mark whole room. And you will not attack enemies which you can't see. That's a nerf part, but the skill will have much higher damage - that's a buff part.

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Let's be honest guys, bladestorm needed to change, but this rework is just plain bad for warframe, I mean this rework goes completely against current bladestorm's effectiveness. 

Current bladestorm: is a low input high output.( Sure pressing a button is boring, but there's a reason players spam this ability, its because of how effective bladestorm is and how it scales with enemy level)

Reworked bladestorm: is a high input low output( your most likely going to bladestorm 6-7 enemies with this change)

Reworked bladestorm would be a great ability, IF we were playing metal gear solid or splinter cell. Warframe has no real stealth, which makes something like reworked bladestorm completely pointless to use.since I'm most likely going to go in a.mission shooting everything. However as a ash main I will continue to play with the real ninja of warframe.

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3 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

Reworked bladestorm: is a high input low output( your most likely going to bladestorm 6-7 enemies with this change)

I believe I remember them saying you can mark more then that

20 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Like I said, as soon as you tap 4 a second time, it is right back to being non-interactive.

It's not completely non-interactive though. Which was the problem. "Automarking an entire room"

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9 minutes ago, N3meziss said:

Well, you forget one thing: from what i heard in one dev stream each marked enemy will cost you energy, so you cant just mark whole room. And you will not attack enemies which you can't see. That's a nerf part, but the skill will have much higher damage - that's a buff part.

Warframe is not about killing high health enemies, its about killing SH IT tonn of enemies that come from every hole that you don't see. And "stealth" in warframe is just laughting at it's concept in the game industry generally. There is no need to stealth in warframe except if you need to farm ivara.

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4 minutes ago, HelWan said:

Warframe is not about killing high health enemies, its about killing SH IT tonn of enemies that come from every hole that you don't see. And "stealth" in warframe is just laughting at it's concept in the game industry generally. There is no need to stealth in warframe except if you need to farm ivara.

You don't have to explain it to me. I find ash boring either way - reworked or not, so this change doesnt mean much to me. Just wanted to throw that information from dev stream, so people who play that frame can make a judgement if those changes are good or bad for them :) For me: it is a nerf, because considering energy cost for each enemy for sure ash overall dps will be lower then it is now.

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3 minutes ago, N3meziss said:

You don't have to explain it to me. I find ash boring either way - reworked or not, so this change doesnt mean much to me. Just wanted to throw that information from dev stream, so people who play that frame can make a judgement if those changes are good or bad for them :) For me: it is a nerf, because considering energy cost for each enemy for sure ash overall dps will be lower then it is now.

Yea, nerfs can be positive and negative. But this is just spitting to the face to people who likes to play ash. I like playing him, but dont use bladestom too often, only in tough situations. And all idea of 4th ability on most of the frames is to avoid death when you are in the corner. I dont think this nerf will keep this idea.

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13 minutes ago, HelWan said:

Yea, nerfs can be positive and negative. But this is just spitting to the face to people who likes to play ash. I like playing him, but dont use bladestom too often, only in tough situations. And all idea of 4th ability on most of the frames is to avoid death when you are in the corner. I dont think this nerf will keep this idea.

Yeah, it is pretty much pointless to use frame skills for damage unless they have infinite scaling, and DE went out of their way to make sure to take out every instance of that that they could, such as shield polarize.

33 minutes ago, PoisonHD said:

It's not completely non-interactive though.

Except, it is. This isn't a difficult concept. It doesn't matter how many steps that tact on in front of it if the end step is the same as always.

Edited by (PS4)DesecratedFlame
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5 minutes ago, HelWan said:

Yea, nerfs can be positive and negative. But this is just spitting to the face to people who likes to play ash. I like playing him, but dont use bladestom too often, only in tough situations. And all idea of 4th ability on most of the frames is to avoid death when you are in the corner. I dont think this nerf will keep this idea.

Well, for the situation you said? It will: just double press 4 on one enemy and you will have 1-2 sec animation immunity. Is this enough? Depends on situation you want to avoid. But it is overall damage nerf, huge one imo. Because even if DE will double the damage you can attack one target only 3 times. Now you can attack boss 18+ times, after max 3 times. Pretty huge dps debuff with an inconvinience of targeting all enemies you want to attack - good luck marking all you want to attack against infested on infested tileset. Is 4 needed rework? Maybe, for something less boring, but what they want to do doesnt look like something that will keep ash as no1 dps anymore. So even tho i dont like ash as a frame i feel sorry for people who do, because nobody likes to be on receiving end of nerf stick with a forma'd frame.

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