Saryn Needs To Be Reworked, Again.

[rockscl]

when playing out of the max power/range build, her degree of tankyness does not scale and becomes useless even with all the EHP mods on her

before endgame its very interesting imo, i find myself using all her kit accordingly with each situation, i play her with rage and regenmolt so i have energy for all her kit in a balanced build, but soon as the enemy units gain enough damage all my tricks end with me dying in one fraction of second

if she gained armor from her mechanics i think it would allow her to be part of the end game, shes one of the most entertaining frames to play for me anyway, i must recognize that havent tried the health conversion(450 armor per health orb) mod on anything yet as i bought it just yesterday

update: lol just realized that health conversion doesnt allow grabbing orbs when at full hp, and a normal mission willl not spawn enough health orbs like for making it an integral part of a build without something like nekros, oberon or broken scepter

Edited November 27, 2016 by rockscl

[Rambit23Z]

2 hours ago, rockscl said:

when playing out of the max power/range build, her degree of tankyness does not scale and becomes useless even with all the EHP mods on her

before endgame its very interesting imo, i find myself using all her kit accordingly with each situation, i play her with rage and regenmolt so i have energy for all her kit in a balanced build, but soon as the enemy units gain enough damage all my tricks end with me dying in one fraction of second

Saryn's survivability comes from blocking with Toxic Lash active, you can tank several level 100+ Heavy Gunners with it.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Hi, sticking my nose in again because a thought occurred to me.

Now, I did see a very interesting suggestion a while ago that might apply here; the simple idea would be that Molt itself has a damage absorb period. Why? Because it doesn't scale well into the points where enemies can shred a warframe. At level 130-150 enemies (something we're getting our impetus back to challenge with the fix on endless Fissure missions), you end up literally wasting the cast on Molt because it's instantly killed by a stray pellet.

Thus, the damage absorb. Much like Iron Skin, you cast it and it would absorb damage and gain health for a longer survivability. There wouldn't even need to be much else, her overall kit is so good that this is pretty much all she would need for survivability.

If, however, you wanted to add something, then why not make the damage absorb also scale the damage that Molt deals when destroyed or detonated? DE can balance the scaling to fit damage as they want it, but for people who like to play their Molt offensively to release Spores and Toxin would benefit form this greatly. Not to mention the huge bonus for the ones that play Molt for the full duration and it can burst for full damage multiplied by the scaling for even more effect.

One tiny change, for a bigger impact on Saryn's favourite playground; late game.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

4 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Hi, sticking my nose in again because a thought occurred to me.

Now, I did see a very interesting suggestion a while ago that might apply here; the simple idea would be that Molt itself has a damage absorb period. Why? Because it doesn't scale well into the points where enemies can shred a warframe. At level 130-150 enemies (something we're getting our impetus back to challenge with the fix on endless Fissure missions), you end up literally wasting the cast on Molt because it's instantly killed by a stray pellet.

Thus, the damage absorb. Much like Iron Skin, you cast it and it would absorb damage and gain health for a longer survivability. There wouldn't even need to be much else, her overall kit is so good that this is pretty much all she would need for survivability.

If, however, you wanted to add something, then why not make the damage absorb also scale the damage that Molt deals when destroyed or detonated? DE can balance the scaling to fit damage as they want it, but for people who like to play their Molt offensively to release Spores and Toxin would benefit form this greatly. Not to mention the huge bonus for the ones that play Molt for the full duration and it can burst for full damage multiplied by the scaling for even more effect.

One tiny change, for a bigger impact on Saryn's favourite playground; late game.

Hey this is one nice idea. Molt lasts less than a second in high levels. It doesnt help at all.

[AutoPhox]

It may not be perfect. For instance, the armored agility is a floating mod. ie, it can be swapped out for something else. But i run this build in sorties with little issues. Zenurik focus helps too. To make this successful, I have adopted a run-and-gun strategy. basically, drop molt > hit it with spores > fall back and shoot it and mobs with a blast kohm.

1) movement keeps me safe

2) kohm keeps enemies knocked down

3) kohm spreads spores

So safty, CC and damage all without resorting to miasma. *the kohm is not the only weapon to accomplish this, its just my favorite. You can use explosive stars, ignus, etc...too.

[erny0507]

The problem i think is her 3 or 4, if they were good on themselves the whole thing would be viable.

Toxic lash should grant the buff to any weapon you are using, as per say primary or secundary. The damage reduction on block should be change.

Miasma should blind enemies for 12 secs at least, currently is just 4 sec for 100 energy cost, its very bad cc as it is. With this saryn could stun enemies a litle more so she can improve her chances of getting out without getting oneshotted.

[Rambit23Z]

5 minutes ago, erny0507 said:

The problem i think is her 3 or 4, if they were good on themselves the whole thing would be viable.

Toxic lash should grant the buff to any weapon you are using, as per say primary or secundary. The damage reduction on block should be change.

Miasma should blind enemies for 12 secs at least, currently is just 4 sec for 100 energy cost, its very bad cc as it is. With this saryn could stun enemies a litle more so she can improve her chances of getting out without getting oneshotted.

The defensive part of Toxic lash is fine, it's one of the few defensive abilities that aren't just "set it and forget it".

[erny0507]

6 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

The defensive part of Toxic lash is fine, it's one of the few defensive abilities that aren't just "set it and forget it".

Its not fine, was already said for Scott, blocking is a bad mechanic in this game, that why shields got their buff.

[Rambit23Z]

Just now, erny0507 said:

Its not fine, was already said for Scott, blocking is a bad mechanic in this game, that why shields got their buff.

That "bad mechanic" allows you to facetank enormous amounts of damage. We're talking multiple level 100+ Heavy Gunners for several seconds. And the increase in blocking from Toixic Lash is one of my favourite things about Saryn. It requires practice to use well, compared to all the other defensive options we have.

[erny0507]

2 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

That "bad mechanic" allows you to facetank enormous amounts of damage. We're talking multiple level 100+ Heavy Gunners for several seconds. And the increase in blocking from Toixic Lash is one of my favourite things about Saryn. It requires practice to use well, compared to all the other defensive options we have.

facetank all you want but they dont stop shooting bullet just because of that, in high level mission the blockings starts to show how useless is, cause enemies keep coming and you keep blocking trying to get close to kill them so eventually swarm you and just remember that blocking just works from the front so you &#! still gets hurt. Lol... sorry.. serious now.

[Rambit23Z]

1 minute ago, erny0507 said:

facetank all you want but they dont stop shooting bullet just because of that, in high level mission the blockings starts to show how useless is, cause enemies keep coming and you keep blocking trying to get close to kill them so eventually swarm you

If you just stand there and block, yes, you'll get destroyed. But it keeps you alive those few seconds you spend in their line of fire, after that you knock em down and finish them off. And you have Miasma to stun the swarms, sure it's only for a few seconds but that's enough.

3 minutes ago, erny0507 said:

and just remember that blocking just works from the front so you &#! still gets hurt. Lol... sorry.. serious now.

If you turn your back to a non-cc'ed enemy then you've already lost.

 

The beauty of Saryn is that she scales into lategame without trivializing it. Frames tend to either scale really hard (60k armour Chroma, map-wide blinding Inaros) or not at all. Saryn is one of the few that does well while still being challenging to play. (Talking mainly about melee Saryn, as that is my playstyle)

[Gurpgork]

Every Saryn thread I see, someone mentions that her energy costs are a problem, but I run her with minimum effiency and rarely have energy issues. In my experience, duration and range can more or less substitute for efficiency. As long as you can keep your Spore chain going, you don't need to recast it at all, and you can throw all your energy at Toxic Lash/melee channelling/Molt/Miasma. 

Her survivability isn't all that bad, either. I play her almost pure melee without Naramon, relying on Vitality + Steel Fiber and Life Strike to stay alive. It can be really tough, but Saryn (especialy her Prime) is actually on the tankier side of Warframes. 

Saryn's biggest problems aren't necessarily even problems with Saryn, they're problems with stuff like armor scaling, one-shot mechanics, a feast-or-famine energy economy, an unreasonable balance paradigm, and every other core problem with the game that every Warframe suffers from (or at least the ones who can't outright remove core gameplay mechanics at the touch of a button).