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[DE]Megan

The War Within: 19.1.0 Ash Revisited

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Ash Rework

Well so far so good. It's a bit complicated to adapt to the mecanics but it's alright. I like the targetting system for the ult, it makes his ult much funnier, though I do have to say it's still kinda buggy, specially when there is lag from the host, it just does weird stuff. It's a heavy nerf though, that's for sure, not only in terms of reach but also in terms of energy. Even with maximum efficiency I just feel I can't kill the hordes of enemies I used to with a simple button press. That's fine, since Ash does look more like the kind to be slaughtering an enemy by a time, but still I figured out I could point that out, since with 25 energy I used to be able to delete like 12 enemies or more, now I kinda struggle with like 7. I like the fact you no longer get stuck in the ult endlessly, but still the nerf is huge. I do like the modification to his Smoke Screen though, it was so annoying getting the warning that you couldn't cast it on air, when it was just such a cool thing to do, now you can seriously use that ability to fight smoothly which I appreciate.

The one mayor concern I have, though, it's how hard it's to figure out how much Blade Storm is going to cost each cast. Before it was a fixed number and while it's neat that the energy cost depends on a per mark basis (and I also like that it decreases the energy from the pool as you are marking the targets), it's really hard to get that feeling of how much energy you are actually using, and well it's important for such Warframe to be mindful of energy. I am just like, well looking first at how much energy I have before the cast and then how much I have afterwards and have to like make a quick math calc to figure out in middle of all the shooting, so it's not so great. I would love if it could have some indicator of how much energy is about to be used, to be kind of mindful. Let's face it, most of us just drag our mouse all over the screen, so while the quickly depleting energy pool looks nice, I would prefer a more clear indicator of how much energy I am about to use, considering you do get energy back when your allies kill, which only makes it more confusing

Other Changes

Overall, I like most of the changes, specially for the Kuva Siphon. It was starting to get annoying having them spawning in middle of a Mobile Defense Sortie, since it's like a mayor waste of time trying to do the Siphon when one just wants to complete the Sortie. I like them having their own mission, it makes it much better, plus it avoids people from getting the spoilers of seeing the process in action. I like those minor fixes, they are really cool.

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Having played with Ash's rework, I find it much more fluid than the boring-azz Press 4 to win that so many players seem to like, while still maintaining a high kill potential. The two things that I dislike about it is that even with 160% efficiency, the energy cost is absolutely terrible, and the arrows are very hard to see, even with a very bright color. Perhaps lower the energy cost and bump up the contrast of the arrows against the background?

 

The Fashionframe is absolutely on point though.

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6 hours ago, -CM-Kinnison said:

Ash nerf.  Now cost more energy per attack then beore.. even if you get it refunded, and players can kill all your targets before you get a chance to blade storm.

Rather use Fatal teleport now.

it's no longer a press 4 to win frame finally. go play some other frame then .

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so RIP Ash, as Blade Storm are now totally useless (15 power per target? really?? And during big firefights you even possibly are out of time to pick your targets) - thanks to DE, for lost plat spent on him - this even worse then Hysteria nerf, at least Hysteria are still usable to some degree.

Sorties, sorry but i take 2k endo every time, over reactor\catalyst or what even matter less for me those 3x Nitain (if i want it i just do alerts, you don't need it in that big numbers from the beginning)

 

requoting latest from Ash vs Evil Dead - ASHY TRASHY

Edited by gonzo007
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just read the about the destruction of Ash's powers and haven't even updated yet. so first rework you lessened his damage making it slash and incorporated clones. and reduced amount of target from 20 to 18 so this update you leave in the clones that were not needed and reduce him to having to target every single enemy he hits by only allow 3 enemy types to be targeted.( which will take more time in missions and allow for a greater chance to be killed or that the very least detected.) in what world of existence is this in any way better? Especially when playing solo. And still isn't guarinteed to kill anything.

Edited by Ookami_Nihonto
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5 minutes ago, abahnur said:

it's no longer a press 4 to win frame finally. go play some other frame then .

I have stated before my ideas for the rework in the megathread.  I have played a fatal teleport build with high duration before the rework.  I also am MR 22, and play many other frames besides ash. My statement about the high energy costs and cumbersome nature of the Bladestorm are still valid

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I like how most deluxe skins come with free major nerf, way to encourage ppl in supporting DE ^_^

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Cool, because you couldn't just make us feel good about the 2000 endo change, much better to bury the good change among 3 days boosters, formas and... 3 nitains?

Oh and

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

We often heard and experienced a power that doesn't allow for player participation beyond pressing 4 once and waiting.

You talk like this about Ash but to me that sentence smells like Ember. Because, you know which of the two frames ruins every extermination alert I play? Spoiler alert, it's not Ash.

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ok just updated and I must say that the new skin is way Fing awesome. and Yes you did it Blade storm is useless. now. Thanks Community for your crying.

Edited by Ookami_Nihonto
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Blade Storm Changes:

  • Blade Storm now has a new 'Mark Enemy' mode that is activated when you hit 4. Ash enters target mode, which you can freely target enemies with your reticule up to 3 times each for attack. Once you're satisfied, press 4 again, Blade Storm begins and all targeted enemies are attacked!
  • Each mark costs Energy (15) which is affected by Mods. If a marked enemy is killed by a squad mate, you will get the energy back. 
  • Marks made while invisible by any source will have a cheaper base cost (10). 
  • Enemies killed by Blade Storm will dissolve, leaving no corpse behind to detect!

Good thing i never really played Ash enough to like him.

Those changes sound like they don't just slow-down the power, but slow-down the gameplay as well.

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pGMQsP0.png

Are you mocking us DE? I just went and did the sortie and got 2K Endo still (and I know a ton of people that still got 2K endo earlier as well when they did it).

Where are your radically reduced chances? I even used to get 2K endo much less before TWW.. what is this madness?

Spoiler

LpnNVDJ.png

At this point I am not sure if I am just super 'lucky' with the RNG and should go buy a lottery ticket or should I just go cry in my shower that this is just stupid and a waste of my time to do it from now on?

RIP sorties #NeverForgetti

Edited by Jester.
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Review time.

Smoke bomb update: Very good (Finally in-air casting), Teleport update: Very good (Objects now included), Blade storm rework: The word that best describes it is "Interesting" but I get this strong sensation DE is alergic to the word "Ablility Cooldown", ever heard of the Borderlands games? The abilities of the characters there have cooldown systems so they are not abused.

Even Focus A.K.A 5th ability "Pess 5" upon completing the Second Dream has a cooldown system, just introduce this feature to certain abilities that are noticably abused with consistant "Press # to win" and you will be fine.

Other than that, good job and Thank you.

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Long post incoming:

I'm gonna talk about the Sortie rewards, the Kuva drops, and lastly the Ash change

Sortie rewards:

Firstly, I like that 2K Endo has a smaller drop chance from Sorties, but here's the thing, why is it there at all, It's just bad, no1 that does sorties wants 2K endo. Second, why add Forma or Nitain to the Sorties, Forma is sooo damn common it hurts, I have enough blueprints to suply me for a good few months and if I want more, It's super easy to get, Forma is NOT an appropriate reward for a Sortie which is supposed to be end game content along with Trials, both of which, you really should not be bringing unformad weapons to anyway, so why get the thing you should have to do the thing, from the thing your trying to do, it's counter intuitive. As for Nitain, yes, ya need a fair bit of it, I ran into problems obtaining it at first, but stockpiling it is easy and if you do a Nitain alert every here and there, you wont run out any time soon, and Nitain alerts are extremely common, again, this is just way too weak of an item to drop from what is supposed to be an end game system. I'll be honest, I don't even like the 4K endo drop from Sorties either. I like getting Riven mods, Lenses, Potatos, Exilus (although less so) and of corse Legendary Cores from sorties, but all of these things are rare or can not be obtained elsewhere, all of these things are also powerful. If anything should be added to Sortie drop tables, it should be Arcane Enhancements, although I believe these should be fairly uncommon/rare because they really aren't THAT powerful and require an obscene amount of work to obtain from trials, here's the thing, 8 high level players for a trial is just too much, I have never known 7 other people that I would be willing to do a trial with that are playing Warframe at the same time, it just doesn't happen, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. There is a reason why 4-6 is the sweet spot for multiplayer games, because getting more than that together who all like the same game is very difficult, arcanes would make a good addition to sorties and make them accessible by people who don't know that many Warframe players.

Sortie Reward Rant Over

Kuva Drops:

Having Kuva Extractors apear on planets near the Kuva Fortress is honestly a good decision simply because it makes sense, having missions guarantee Kuva drops is good in my books too, no longer do I need to spam Rusalka and pray for an Extractor. Kuva Extractors now being limited in the sense that you now can not spam them is honestly okay in my books, it is supposed to be a rare resource and I honestly prefer the guaranteed drop rather than doing the same thing over and over to get one to drop, it just feels less sanity draining than before. If anything should be changed on this front, it should be a cap on the Kuva cost for Re-Rolling and the removal of BS stats on the mods that do literally nothing.

Edit: After doing Kuva missions, I have personally found that it is not a limited resource, I have been able to consistently do Kuva missions which means that this system is actually really good, no more RNG (unless you count the random mission nodes), just do a mission and get Kuva.

Kuva Rant Over

Ash Changes:

Here is the controversial one in my opinion. I want to prefis this by saying that I like the ability to kill Ashes targets, sometimes there is that one enemy that you just need to kill, and you cant, because ash has marked it and hasn't gotten to it yet. I also am not opposed to an Ash nerf because he is the one frame I don't use on principle because of both his power level (IT'S OVER 9000, sry had to do that), and the fact that ya just press a button, and go make tee. I feel this change is too much however, going into a mode where you are not invincible (pls correct me if I am wrong), to mark targets to assassinate, to only have them be killed by your team mates, this is simply waaay to slow, not to mention the energy cost (what is with DE's fetish for high energy costs recently, I mean seriously) is far and away more than it was for it was originally, the post that was linked about marking people with smoke screen actually had a good idea, here's my version, use smoke screen, mark enemies in it, press 4, kill all those enemies, this would synergise his smoke screen, teleport, and 4 all at once, teleport to priority target, go invisible, murder em all. This not only makes the ability shorter because of a smaller area, it also also makes it more engaging because ya have to set it up before ya do it. It decreases Ashes power level while not making him tedious or clunky to play, I feel like that would be the best of both worlds and that it is a far better solution than what is currently proposed. I would like to end this rant section by saying, DE, you did good with reworks in the past, what happened, now they're all bad and feel more like direct nerfs rather than reworks, not cool.

Ash Rant Over

 

These are my genuine feelings about the new changes, hopefully it adds to the conversation rather than detracts from it.

Edited by I-Am-MoMoJoJo

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Here's my opinion on the new Marking mechanics for Bladestorm:

  • the act of passing my reticule left and right is visually disorienting for me, especially when im trying to get 3 marks on every enemy as fast as i can before they can kill me.  I've turned off my motion blur for this reason.
  • I think it's good that the energy cost of each mark is lower when performing it while invisible by any source.   Now with duration mods, smokescreen will let me stay longer in a state of invisibility, giving me safety while i spend less energy marking targets.
  • I can only put as much as 3 marks on a single enemy.  It's unsatisfying to not kill high-level enemies after 3 kill animations with a full power strength build, mainly because i have to go through the trouble of marking them again to finish them off.  While it took the old Bladestorm 10 animations to kill high-level enemies, at least I had to cast it just once

My suggestions:

  • It would be nice if there were other ways to add marks other than passing the reticule on enemies.  Here are some examples i have in mind:
    • Giving Shuriken the ability to mark enemies that it hits.  Simply because it seeks-out up to two enemes that don't necessarily have to be on your reticule.
    • Allowing physical attacks (gun shots, melee attacks, bullet jumps) to mark enemies while in 'Mark Enemy' mode so that there's also a benefit in performing physical attacks.  This way, a player could get 3 marks on a single target in an instant by aiming at it and shooting two bullets. Also, Imagine adding extra marks to a line of previously-marked enemies with a slide attack. (moreover with a Telos Boltor!)
  • it would help if there was a mark counter displayed somewhere in the hud to show how many enemies have been marked, or how many marks are currently active.  I would prefer this to appear on either on one of these areas:
    • the upper right of the HUD (where the buff indicators appear)
    • the lower right of the HUD (just above the melee combo counter)
    • Below the reticule and ability dots (in the same space where Atlas' Landslide multiplier appears)
  • It wouldn't be OP to increase the mark limit per enemy so we can get a few more hits in.  (On the other hand, removing the limit will let players place as many marks on an enemy as available energy allows it, but it will somewhat bring back the problem of "press 4 and wait")
  • Allow players to manually END or DISCONTINUE the Bladestorm animation  by holding down the ability button (A.K.A long press). Nobody wants to be stuck in killing motion when your priorities suddenly change from "KILL ALL ENEMIES!" to "REVIVE THAT FALLEN TEAMMATE!" or "ACTIVATE THAT LIFE SUPPORT!"
Edited by MeLbZ
added more suggestions
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Okay so I tried the Ash rework, and while I find the changes to his other powers to be pretty good, I'm a bit... meh... on his ult.

Please bear in mind that I'm not an Ash main, hardly played him besides using him to farm focus in old Draco.

I find it very difficult to control how much damage I'm going to do.  Quite often, I was in situations where I was invisible, marking a specific enemy because THAT is who I wanted to take out, but then an enemy sprints across my cursor, and now it's marked, too.  Another thing that seems to happen is that I will want to mark, say, all 12 enemies over there, but the game interprets it as "hey, i wanna mark that ONE guy 3 times, then the one next to him 3 times...".  Seems odd.

I also seem to have no ability to control the order that I kill things in (or if I do, I didn't notice) so using Bladestorm to take out enemies in a specific order to get stealth bonuses doesn't work, apparently?  I never got a stealth bonus, even if I was invisible when I did the attack on a single enemy.

However, frankly, in a big firefight, where I'm huddling in a frost bubble, it seems that the best option I have is to mark, then shake my mouse a bunch, then hope I didn't triple-mark too much.

I'm trying to come to this with an open heart, but this isn't going to make me dust off Ash for really any reason.  The 4 is incredibly finicky now.  I'd prefer a system where (if you can't pick the order things die in, like I think you cant) I hit four, and it creates a zone centered on where my targeting reticle is, and I bladestorm everything inside of it.

 

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It's fine that they made the changes to Ash, but in compensation to the conditions of power 4, should increase the duration of power 2. Since Ash becomes too vulnerable and appearing in the midst of enemies causes the ability to become useless.

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At least add some increased defenses while in marking mode, for god's sake. How do you imagine frantic battles are supposed to work out with this new mechanic? You can't just take your time to mark stuff while you're having bullets fly at you from all sides.

Edited by Virsalus

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1 hour ago, Jester. said:

pGMQsP0.png

Are you mocking us DE? I just went and did the sortie and got 2K Endo still (and I know a ton of people that still got 2K endo earlier as well when they did it).

Where are your radically reduced chances? I even used to get 2K endo much less before TWW.. what is this madness?

  Reveal hidden contents

LpnNVDJ.png

At this point I am not sure if I am just super 'lucky' with the RNG and should go buy a lottery ticket or should I just go cry in my shower that this is just stupid and a waste of my time to do it from now on?

RIP sorties #NeverForgetti

They should just delete 2k Endo as a reward.

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