The War Within: 19.1.0 Ash Revisited

[Riruku]

So thank you for looking at ash again. The changes to his other abilities all seem fine but the change to bladestorm still isn't as interactive as it could have been. I find it that marking the enemies and then doing the long cinematic is similar to the previous iteration of hitting 4 and then watching the cinematic again. It simply seems like a barrier with a higher energy cost (from having to spend energy per enemy, compared to the previous iteration of only spending energy once). to do the same ability, it makes it slightly more interactive but you still have that long period of inactivity where you're waiting for the animation to finish. If you wanted to make it more interactive then you probably could have made it so that after marking and pressing 4 again his clones would go out and kill the enemies while ash can worry about other things. This way it is a lot more interactive since you have to always think about your next move and what to do after you send the clones. Also, you made it so that enemies killed by ash have their bodies disappear, which would be helpful for stealth missions. However, ash's bladestorm doesn't get any stealth xp multipliers which is the biggest reason people do stealth missions. If it was maybe changed so that his 4 benefits from stealth xp multipliers when he is under the effects of smokescreen while doing bladestorm then it would make more sense and feel like a more worthwhile addition. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Riruku
Forgot to talk about energy cost, more than before but manageable.

[-NEO_SFX-]

Oh Ash... It was an honor fighting side by side with you, but because of DE and their non-stop nerfing, it's time to let you go... Good bye my friend...

[VoidJumper]

22 hours ago, -HoB-KurtOn said:

They destroyed ash..And the irony is "They listen to community". Community never wanted this much of devastation to a frame.

Thats the community problem. Veteran players dont have time to waste on forums, while newbies got nothing else to do then cry for nerfs. If you think a frame is too strong why the hell do you ask for a nerf. ASK FOR A BUFF TO YOUR FAVOURITE FRAME OR REWORK. Why would you go out of your time to ask for nerfs. Personaly if de keeps destroying one frame after the other id rather have a legion frame where i press all 4 abilities get increased armor and health regen, and then get reload speed and infinite ammo on my current weapon to mow down groups....

[_sheepy_]

1 hour ago, Titanscorpion said:

 what about Excal spammers?
 

what about mirage simulor? makes old ash look weak.

Trouble is a lot of new and some old players don't understand this game is not about kills so they cry about anything they don't use that gets more kills than them.

It's easy to notice this when on MD sortie when you're the only one protecting the objectives while the rest go spawn camping,at the end they think i'm the best i have the most kills.

Who is the better player the one protecting the objectives or the one that run from it to get the most kills?

Sad thing is by the time they realize it's too late.

[heate]

Bladestorm re-worked is a little slow in a fast pace mission like survival where Ash shines. Maybe allowing Ash to target every on screen can bring up the speed a bit 

Thank for the update 

[Howling_MoMo]

I feel bad for DE cause people complain they are getting 2k endo(partly because they want riven and partly because its not 4k), then they complain about diffren sortie rewards.

if riven mods had another way of be aquired would people complain about sortie rewards because i think 2k endo is better then lens

[Vulpei]

Next to no one wanted Nitain and Forma in sorties and what do we get?  Nitain and Forma in sorties.  Always nice to be reminded we're listened to.

[Serbian2G]

I actually like the new blade storm. Atleast now it's not just mindless spamming of his fourth ability until everything around you is dead.

[chuckdm]

Ok so...a couple things.

First, DE, for the very first time since I started playing, now a full 2 years ago, I am not buying Prime Access.  The reason for this is very simple.

Valkyr Prime SHOULD NOT EXIST.

I am not sure why people haven't picked up on this.  Let's disregard the fact that TWW and TSD, by their very nature, should invalidate the existance of even the regular Valkyr (if a Warframe is - SPOILER - merely a shell, then it can't feel anger, and thus cannot be created by said anger.)  She's supposed to be "forged in the labs of the Zanuka project" which is clearly not an Orokin lab.  By your own lore, Valkyr was created AFTER the fall of the Orokin Empire, so she can NOT have a Prime.

Meanwhile, Banshee DESPERATELY needs a COMPLETE rework, and you're bothering with Ash because Bladestorm is messing with your meta?  Seriously?  THIS is how you choose to allocate your time and development resources?  Ok, let me help you out here:

THIS GAME WILL ALWAYS HAVE A META.  ALWAYS.  FOREVER.

There will always be a 100% most efficient method to farm, and since nearly all of the player rewards in this game are the result of farming, people will always use/abuse said best method to farm.  If you keep nerfing the next-best way to farm until there are none left, you will have to nerf THE ENTIRE GAME.  So just stop.  Please, for the love of the game I've spent the past 2 years of my life and probably around $1,000+ on, please dear god please quit trying to kill your own game.

Hell, I desperately want to see the Tonkor get a nerf BUT AT THIS POINT I'D RATHER YOU DIDN'T BECAUSE I DON'T TRUST YOU TO NERF FAIRLY!

I'm not sure if you'll ever see another penny from me or not.  But if you do, it'll be because the VERY NEXT THING YOU DO is revamp Banshee.  If you do ANYTHING ELSE, so help me, I'm a freeloader for the rest of the game.

Edited November 26, 2016 by chuckdm

[_sheepy_]

14 minutes ago, Howling_MoMo said:

I feel bad for DE cause people complain they are getting 2k endo(partly because they want riven and partly because its not 4k), then they complain about diffren sortie rewards.

if riven mods had another way of be aquired would people complain about sortie rewards because i think 2k endo is better then lens

I have well over a million endo so no 4k is bad but better for me.

nitain is not hard to get the way it is.

i have lot's of forma and that to is not hard to get.

They said the sortie was for end or close to end game players but the rewards are only good for new or nearly new players.

Why don't you feel bad for the veteran players that have massively supported this game with a lot of time and money that repeatedly get marginalized.

 

[Tau.]

The simple fact is that while Ash 'feels' nice to play now from a mechanics and handling standpoint, the damage per time output on Blade Storm is severely lacking. It's almost not even worth using it over simply shooting the enemies instead. Adequately processed, most of our weapons can hit far harder and faster than the ability as it stands right now. 

Currently his revival of the "old ways" is quite underwhelming. If you're keeping this marking mechanic, you'll need to quadruple the damage (or make it scale!) and shorten the killcam, for the move to stay relevant. You guys did say you were going to buff the damage on Blade Storm to help make up for making it more manual. Was that lost somewhere along the way? 

EDIT: Damn it, bottom of a page again, which means this probably won't be seen :l

Edited November 26, 2016 by SpaceBad
Bottom-of-page low-visibility salt

[_sheepy_]

2 hours ago, Irishspongie said:

With all due respect to the OP - we've all been through that mid-level phase where we're crafting/building like mad and absolutely need forma and nitain - this is a perfect example of why adding them to the drop tables for something that's meant to be endgame content is, frankly, nonsensical.  I might be an outlier in having amassed 500+ nitain, but I'm willing to bet that the majority of active players at my level already have more than they'll need for the next six months of content that's coming our way.  Same for forma; if memory serves I'm crafting my 112th for the stockpile, and expect most high level players to be in a similar situation.

If you want to give players the opportunity to pick up 3 nitain, put them in as a reward for invasions.  Let players who need them opt-in to the resource, not force it upon those of us who have already built and researched everything that uses it.  Adding it to sortie rewards as "an option" is either a very, very poor cover-up for an attempt at diluting the reward table (in which case, just add in detonite injectors / fieldrons / mutagen masses / 1000 ferrite and be done with it) or else an incredibly idiotic decision by a game designer who doesn't actually play the game.

 

Let's not forget the 3 day boost,brilliant for new players and the ones that play for free.

players like me that always has a boost because i always get prime access it's like giving me absolutely nothing.

personally i'v stopped playing them.

[-PlutON-]

WTF?

Ash R.I.P. 26/11/2016

[_N_I_N_T_E_N_D_O_]

Hi, Everyone!

The second day in a row gives 2000 endo. I'm not the only one "lucky", based on comments...my post about it 

[ChoProZ]

Thanks for destroy the game one more time and thxz for destroy ASH to..

One More Player who STOP to Play CU.

Thxz Developers.

[Insizer]

On 11/25/2016 at 2:51 PM, [DE]Megan said:

A next step here is being considered to add a completely new Ayatan in the place of 2K Endo to give collectors and Endo hunters something to look forward to

This is great and all, but Ayatan are a terrible source of Endo because you need to pay Maroo for her to take the Endo out of the Ayatan, which she then keeps. Can we please do something about this? I love collecting Endo (seriously, I find it somewhat fun), but I'll be damned if I have to pay to get it. That's why I don't even bother with the Maroo/Ayatan stuff at all.

On 11/25/2016 at 2:56 PM, Dvir said:

OH COME ON THIS IS WORSE

Exactly, all they needed to do imo was just lower the 75% chance (probably) of getting 2000 endo.

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Insizer

[Insizer]

1 hour ago, _sheepy_ said:

Let's not forget the 3 day boost,brilliant for new players and the ones that play for free.

players like me that always has a boost because i always get prime access it's like giving me absolutely nothing.

personally i'v stopped playing them.

Except you aren't a new player if you've completed Pluto and the pre-reqs for TWW.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Insizer

[-HoB-KurtOn]

4 hours ago, VoidJumper said:

Thats the community problem. Veteran players dont have time to waste on forums, while newbies got nothing else to do then cry for nerfs. If you think a frame is too strong why the hell do you ask for a nerf. ASK FOR A BUFF TO YOUR FAVOURITE FRAME OR REWORK. Why would you go out of your time to ask for nerfs. Personaly if de keeps destroying one frame after the other id rather have a legion frame where i press all 4 abilities get increased armor and health regen, and then get reload speed and infinite ammo on my current weapon to mow down groups....

Who the hell said i asked for nerf? I kept my mouth shut all the time.

[LightBriite]

23 hours ago, _sheepy_ said:

What happened m8 was the same thing that happened to the year of quality,It didn't happen:)

Fam, the YoQ actually did happen, all the reworks they did in 2015 was insane. 

[_sheepy_]

41 minutes ago, Insizer said:

Except you aren't a new player if you've completed Pluto and the pre-reqs for TWW.

I know and that's why i said personally i'v stopped playing them.

It's a reward table for new players.

[_sheepy_]

7 minutes ago, LightBriite said:

Fam, the YoQ actually did happen, all the reworks they did in 2015 was insane. 

I think you're mistaking quantity for quality.

Edited November 26, 2016 by _sheepy_

[LightBriite]

No

2 minutes ago, _sheepy_ said:

I think you're mistaking quantity for quality.

No, I'm just not a sarcastic glass-half empty kinda guy. If you really think Excal, Frost, Movement, Sniper, Shotgun, and boss Reworks were bad then you should prolly not play anymore. 

[GGbroman]

Hi. I don't normally post on the forums but I'm assuming DE is probably watching the forums for input on the ash rework so I'm just gonna give my input on the ash rework (I didn't read the 23 pages of comments so I'm probably gonna repeat a lot of stuff that was said earlier)

ash's second ability:

Being able to move around and use the ability as well as use it in mid air is really nice. It feels good and I don't have to worry about the slightly slow animation time it would take to turn invisible before this update.

ash's fourth ability:

I would say that this ability rework is pretty nice but not perfect. I guess I like the fact that I have to use two skills in conjunction with each other (invisibility and then bladestorm) in order to get the most out of ash. It makes me feel like I'm using more of his abilities throughout missions.

In survival sometimes players kill my marked enemies and I get my energy refunded (which is nice) but I feel like that makes the effort of me going into stealth mode and then using the fourth skill a bit pointless because when players tonkor (for example) my mob that I marked for death i am left with just me being invisible and I have to refocus on enemies again. It feels tedious when that happens. Thankfully that doesn't exactly happen often when the survival goes on for more than 40 minutes so that situation only happens within the first 20 minutes (to all my veteran players, 40 minutes was just an example time that represents a long enough time in survival or an endless mission where enemies have enough health to not get one-shotted from other players and de-mark enemies. If you feel like my particular specific situation can still happen often at 40 then insert some other time in your head that feels appropriate to you).

The animation still happens and I still have to sit there and watch the animation. But my complaint about that is more along the lines of this: I am busy watching bladestorm while a teammate is bleeding out beside me and I feel super horrible knowing that I can't do anything to save that person from his eventual death because my bladestorm lasted more than 20-25 seconds XD. In any other scenario I get to rest my hands for a little while XD

In terms of fun, I enjoy ash's rework on his fourth ability and it doesn't take away the fun I have for this game.

In terms of dps and other professional gamer terms like that, the energy cost became a little worse than before the update but since I am using 170% efficiency, I am handling the situation somewhat. For others this might not be the case but I can only speak for myself so that's what I think. There is a loss in damage over time from bladestorm changing to a skill where I have to physically mark enemies (which takes longer than automatically pressing 4). I am currently using Fatal teleport to make up for some of the lost damage from using bladestorm.

 

Overall I like the rework and there are definitely some things to fix in my opinion like the bladestorm animation and the lack of buffed damage to bladestorm to make up for making me mark the enemies myself (but i know DE will get to that...... hopefully).

I will refrain from choosing whether this is a nerf or a buff and will just say that I like some of the changes you guys (meaning DE) made to ash and dislike some other changes or (lack thereof) of changes to ash (like the animation cinema cuz I REALLY wanna save my teamates while bladestorming and stuff like that).

Thank you,

GGbroman

[-VF-Nightmare]

Oh my god , I am very upset about this nerf. The amount of enemys that blade storm kills decreased too much , half dozen maximum, at last time I counted.

Now he is not anymore one of the most powerfull warframes.

[_sheepy_]

1 minute ago, LightBriite said:

No

No, I'm just not a sarcastic glass-half empty kinda guy. If you really think Excal, Frost, Movement, Sniper, Shotgun, and boss Reworks were bad then you should prolly not play anymore. 

So now you know what i think?

That is all quantity,If you don't understand the difference then you should probably not comment anymore.