Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

8 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

I'm sorry if I don't agree? Just because you want a break mid match doesn't mean we all do, some of us are interesting in continuously playing, and when we get tired, take a break from the game entirely. That said, none of what you said counters the point that the cinematic sequence for BS is anything less than un-interactive and can be easily found as boring. I could care less what the rest of Ash's kit can do, because that isn't what I'm discussing. 

Also unclear how you drew from my desire to be more involved in gameplay that I'm the sort who wants to afk in matches while hammering a single button, that is almost the exact opposite of my message. 

I'd hardly call it a break, its a small recollection. I am interested in the flow as well. And Blade Storm animation has no issues except for when it has targeted the entire map and then some. Hence, the rework fixed that won't you agree?

I came to that assumption, perhaps wrongfully so, because the people that experience this "inactive boring mechanic" more are usually the people that use nothing but Blade Storm. I am also talking about all his other skills because if anyone bothered in my opinion to play Ash to his full potential, they would hardly find themselves bored by Blade Storm. That is what I am saying.

The old animation I agree was quite long and tiresome at times. More so when there is server lag though. Usually it is fast. This is an issue indeed, at times it would take a whole 2 seconds to go from one target to the next. This is not the norm. The norm is a fast attack that does not last that long. They had even got rid of boss targeting at a point.

If you are talking about this specific thing (that whole lag issue etc) then yes, I can agree to that. It is indeed game breaking and I too wanted to eat my keyboard from the impatience it brought upon me whilst sitting there through it.

Again, I find this is fixed now though. So what are we talking about again? lol

[Exth]

3 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

"You were dissmising everyones opinions and presenting your statements like they were final." that is the impression I got from other peoples impressions. When they state "this sucks" and dont explain or back something up, I'd say its pretty dismissive. I am simply giving my feedback on peoples opinions that I disagree, and backing it up. What am I supposed to do? I disagree, clearly, so I am expressing it. I find it as important for DE to see my opinions as to see yours. And I will take the effort to explain why I have said opinions, in a manner of "backing up" my argument if you may say.

Thank you for pretending to not read the rest of my viable points.

I'll keep it short, Ash slowed the game down before. His "clearing the room" was for you to sit there, lock enemies into invulnerability for your pleasure alone, and it took 10 times as long as it would without it.

You are welcome.

I didnt address the point of smoke bomb and teleport because i agree with you.

If this "rework" suits your playstyle, great. but maybe it doesn't fit others so they have the right to express their opinions.

Like you said:

16 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

Or should we all play in the same manner?

Tks :D

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

41 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

1 second stun 10m isn't much

Switch teleport+decoy Loki is the fastest Warframe anyways too.

Infested are as easy as it gets, invis and decoy is more than enough + Irradiating disarm augment works great on infested

Irrelevant when using invis and disarm correctly, worse case scenario you can use primed flow with QT

Not exactly useless, but whatever he can do other frames do it better

Why bother wasting a crapton of energy setting up the ult when me and my team can just shoot them?

 

 

1) Anyone that says that really doesn't know how to use it in my opinion. I personally use Smoke Screen more often than not for the stun. Your "isn't much" is something completely lacking from Loki, who can get one shot during his cast. Range can also be changed if that is what you want, but being melee, you don't need more than 10m.

2) How is this the fastest when you need to do 2 skills for it? o.O People say Blade Storm needs to be "wound up" now, but the Decoy + STp doesn't? While Loki does that once for one location and needs to place another decoy, I am targeting my enemies and I have used Teleport (even more so with Fatal Teleport on) on 5 different enemies in 3 different corners of the map. Loki will never criss cross and one shot enemies like I do with this.

3) Depends, Loki is so squishy the toxic clouds from infested sure do have me running around all day long reviving fallen Lokis with my Ash. You missed the point though. Your skill on its normal use, is useless against them. "Irradiating disarm augment" however is a nice touch, I agree.

4) For the last time, AoE wipes Loki out. Hardly irrelevant. Also not irrelevant when you can get one shot casting it. Even if it is an off chance man, it happens. But we can do this argument both ways, Loki's constant invisibility and disarm is irrelevant when I use other strategies in its place o.O That can be said for anything. All ways to play the game are not wrong neither right. Its just preference.

5) No they cannot, I said that already, other frames do not have the combination of the things he can do. Some have stealth, they dont have teleport, some have teleport like skills, no stealth, and on it goes. Loki is the closest thing to it, but for a completely different playstyle.

6) A) I don't waste any energy actually. B) Why shoot them when I can hack and slash them or blade storm? See how silly that sounds? Why do anything in this game since you can do something else? Allow me to enlighten you....... because its fun and having tools to cater to your playstyle.

From what I clearly see in the forums, you are all just after the most powerful weapon and skill and the game, and care little for gameplay. That's cool. I haven't seen a single person even bother to think that someone might like to play the game heavily focused in melee. Why would anyone play melee? For the fun guys. If we are to continue this conversation on what is most efficient, the I should just let you talk about it alone. I gave more than enough feedback on all this and my point was made. Also, if we are to talk about efficiency alone, then I should drop playing melee period, because indeed, it is not the most efficient weapon in the game. That aint happening though, if this is to become just another average shooter, then there is no point to it for me. And Ash, has always been the perfect tool for a full melee warframe. Excalibur comes to a close second for me as a full melee warframe.

 

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Different Ways Blade Storm Could Work (not necessarily meant to be put together):

• As suggested before -- Blade Storm is an AoE ability that marks enemies in a radius around you instead of requiring you to aim.
• Blade Storm spawns [X] shadows, and they do the job for you, instead.
• Instead of locking Ash into an animation for the duration of the ability, Ash rains his "blades" from above each enemy in range, killing them instantly.
• Ash summons a swarm of blades from himself, dealing massive Slash damage in an AoE.
• Ash surrounds himself (and his allies) with [X] blades, seeking out and dealing damage to enemies. More blades are required to kill stronger enemies.

Just a few suggestions, don't kill me be rude, thnk

[Nagisawa]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Different Ways Blade Storm Could Work (not necessarily meant to be put together):

• As suggested before -- Blade Storm is an AoE ability that marks enemies in a radius around you instead of requiring you to aim.
• Blade Storm spawns [X] shadows, and they do the job for you, instead.
• Instead of locking Ash into an animation for the duration of the ability, Ash rains his "blades" from above each enemy in range, killing them instantly.
• Ash summons a swarm of blades from himself, dealing massive Slash damage in an AoE.
• Ash surrounds himself (and his allies) with [X] blades, seeking out and dealing damage to enemies. More blades are required to kill stronger enemies.

Just a few suggestions, don't kill me be rude, thnk

That's cute, but I think a team marking mechanic works better in place of Bladestorm.

Now, I LOVE the animations, and I DON'T MIND that they lock me out.  BUT I'm a SOLO player primarily.  In a group game, a marking mechanic as was suggested at the start would make for a better 4,

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

10 minutes ago, Exth said:

I didnt address the point of smoke bomb and teleport because i agree with you.

If this "rework" suits your playstyle, great. but maybe it doesn't fit others so they have the right to express their opinions.

Like you said:

Tks :D

Hence, why did you have an issue with me initially expressing my opinion?

End of the day, the problem to the rework "others" would want is that the frame would end up being the same as the rest. There is a bunch of you I've noticed in 4 years of playing that are requesting the same playstyle from every frame in the game. If a frame is not to your playstyle, stop bothering with it! If it is getting in your way (like Blade Storm invulnerability was) then give feedback. Don't request for every damn frame in the game to play the same way. There are frames that already do what everyone is asking for!

There is not a single frame that caters to full melee combat as good as Ash does. And since I mainly melee, changing him up again is something I cannot stand. This is the single frame that has fulfilled my playstyle and people that like melee. Don't keep asking him to become something else! You all already have frames to fullfill your needs, clearly, since you are all already pointing out which frames are better. Go play with them then. Simple.

Melee only needs a fast way to close in on targets. Teleport. It needs more durability as it is in the thick, Ash has it. It needs a skill to stop suppressive fire and knock downs, smoke screen. Being able to escape and relocate is also needed, again smoke screen. Being melee only, sure it also needs some simple ranged attack for the off-chance one needs it (including trivial things like cameras), Shuriken. And it needs a good 4th skill to clear enemies out. It still has it, sure not as powerful, but it doesnt need to be. The mark can be left on always, with my mods I always have energy no matter what, hack them to pieces, and blade storm is always ready when I want and free of cost most of the time.

I'm sorry but I cannot have this play style covered with any other warframe in the game. And no, I also do not want to be always in stealth. I don't like it. Call me crazy or whatever, it is subjective preference, and Ash offers an alternative to what other stealth frames do. Hence in the end, exactly what I am looking for!

 

We can all play how we like. But please, for the last time, since you all clearly already know which frames "do things better and are more effective than Ash" then use them. Evidently they suit you better. Those of us that want this specific playstyle, Ash is the only one that delivers. Let... it... go! There are 29 other frames in the game to suit your needs. Take your pick!

[OTF4L]

4 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

End of the day, the problem to the rework "others" would want is that the frame would end up being the same as the rest. There is a bunch of you I've noticed in 4 years of playing that are requesting the same playstyle from every frame in the game. If a frame is not to your playstyle, stop bothering with it! If it is getting in your way (like Blade Storm invulnerability was) then give feedback. Don't request for every damn frame in the game to play the same way. There are frames that already do what everyone is asking for!

There is not a single frame that caters to full melee combat as good as Ash does. And since I mainly melee, changing him up again is something I cannot stand. This is the single frame that has fulfilled my playstyle and people that like melee. Don't keep asking him to become something else! You all already have frames to fullfill your needs, clearly, since you are all already pointing out which frames are better. Go play with them then. Simple.

Melee only needs a fast way to close in on targets. Teleport. It needs more durability as it is in the thick, Ash has it. It needs a skill to stop suppressive fire and knock downs, smoke screen. Being able to escape and relocate is also needed, again smoke screen. Being melee only, sure it also needs some simple ranged attack for the off-chance one needs it (including trivial things like cameras), Shuriken. And it needs a good 4th skill to clear enemies out. It still has it, sure not as powerful, but it doesnt need to be. The mark can be left on always, with my mods I always have energy no matter what, hack them to pieces, and blade storm is always ready when I want and free of cost most of the time.

I'm sorry but I cannot have this play style covered with any other warframe in the game. And no, I also do not want to be always in stealth. I don't like it. Call me crazy or whatever, it is subjective preference, and Ash offers an alternative to what other stealth frames do. Hence in the end, exactly what I am looking for!

 

We can all play how we like. But please, for the last time, since you all clearly already know which frames "do things better and are more effective than Ash" then use them. Evidently they suit you better. Those of us that want this specific playstyle, Ash is the only one that delivers. Let... it... go! There are 29 other frames in the game to suit your needs. Take your pick!

AMEN....lol

Edited November 30, 2016 by OTF4L
Part I didnt want to quote removed

[Robert_Cop_2]

1 hour ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

You just proved my point in what you said, you need all those frames to do what Ash can do alone.

Ivara - She also cannot teleport.

Nova - Her "teleport" is not target friendly. Good to help team-mates around too though. She also lacks stealth completely.

Nezha - You must be joking, her distance is 8 meters.

Loki - Closest to Ash, great stealth, lasts longer as his purpose is to be in it more rather than use if for quick offence and relocation. Drawback, no stun while he casts. Hence in late levels you can get one shot during the casting so not as offensive. He has teleport, sure, but hardly useful a lot times. Great to pull a team mate or switch with a decoy. Completely different purpose. Cannot close in on targets period, he switches with them. Again, not offensive and cannot be used as much. Also cannot be used to teleport to a friend, only switch with them.

 

All these frames are also squishy by comparison.

 

Those frames might be better at one or two things, but they cannot offer the combo of all those things in one. Ash does. Which primes him for much better use. Now, if he where for example to also have the best stealth in the game, as well as be more survivable, well then what exactly is the point to the other frames? None whatsoever.

The thing is I don't need to do all of these things in the same mission. . .

Ivara - you can get everywhere with dashwire no need to teleport

Nova - you can get everywhere with wormhole no need to target something

Nezha - I'm not joking you can chain his chakram with parkour to overcome the range, again he doesn't need a target (yeah he's a dude btw)

Loki - faster casting time = no need to stun for invisibility and there are so many possible combos with teleport and decoy, and if you really want to teleport to a team mate you can just cast decoy near him.

All of these frames have much lower ehp than Ash, why?

Because their abilities make up for that, you don't need to survive anything when the enemies are rendered harmless.

Right now Ash offers poor stealth combined with poor offense not really an appealing combo imho.

[CorrinAvatan]

1 hour ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

 

All Loki does is go invisible all day long. That is it.   That is the extent of his skill set. (Or creating a decoy that distracts enemies from your friends during high-level missions, if even for a second.  Or being able to pull an ally out of an area where they are down, or causing an enemy to be placed somewhere else on a map for a momentary regroup, or completely killing a groups ability to shoot back at your team) just mentioned a range of better tactics Ash can do. Two completely different frames. Loki is also better for ranged weapons as he silences them (Only with a mod, Banshee is the one that does that innately), hence, why are we even comparing? They are completely different. What you prefer is up to you of course, but state it as such, "I prefer Loki to Ash for so and so"... Right out stating that he is better as an objective opinion is really not getting us anywhere bro. If he was objectively better, then why on earth would I feel he leaves my playstyle needs unfulfilled? Why would I even bother with Ash if that is the case? Hence, all a matter of subjective opinion and different playstyles. I think it best we all start to clarify on this (me included, more than I have apparently so as not to get people riled up, as I am after all talking about a playstyle that, in my opinion, Ash clearly caters to and no other frame does).

If you're gonna knock on Loki, at least know what he can and can't do.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

44 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

Hence, why did you have an issue with me initially expressing my opinion?

End of the day, the problem to the rework "others" would want is that the frame would end up being the same as the rest. There is a bunch of you I've noticed in 4 years of playing that are requesting the same playstyle from every frame in the game. If a frame is not to your playstyle, stop bothering with it! If it is getting in your way (like Blade Storm invulnerability was) then give feedback. Don't request for every damn frame in the game to play the same way. There are frames that already do what everyone is asking for!

There is not a single frame that caters to full melee combat as good as Ash does. And since I mainly melee, changing him up again is something I cannot stand. This is the single frame that has fulfilled my playstyle and people that like melee. Don't keep asking him to become something else! You all already have frames to fullfill your needs, clearly, since you are all already pointing out which frames are better. Go play with them then. Simple.

Melee only needs a fast way to close in on targets. Teleport. It needs more durability as it is in the thick, Ash has it. It needs a skill to stop suppressive fire and knock downs, smoke screen. Being able to escape and relocate is also needed, again smoke screen. Being melee only, sure it also needs some simple ranged attack for the off-chance one needs it (including trivial things like cameras), Shuriken. And it needs a good 4th skill to clear enemies out. It still has it, sure not as powerful, but it doesnt need to be. The mark can be left on always, with my mods I always have energy no matter what, hack them to pieces, and blade storm is always ready when I want and free of cost most of the time.

I'm sorry but I cannot have this play style covered with any other warframe in the game. And no, I also do not want to be always in stealth. I don't like it. Call me crazy or whatever, it is subjective preference, and Ash offers an alternative to what other stealth frames do. Hence in the end, exactly what I am looking for!

 

We can all play how we like. But please, for the last time, since you all clearly already know which frames "do things better and are more effective than Ash" then use them. Evidently they suit you better. Those of us that want this specific playstyle, Ash is the only one that delivers. Let... it... go! There are 29 other frames in the game to suit your needs. Take your pick!

 Ive been reading your opinions on the ash rework. Some points i can agree with however,  Youve never asked yourself while marking enemies why dont i just FT instead? But I digress,  You seem sure of yourself with his new skill set. So you should post a video running a defense or survival or hive 80-100 sortie eximus stronghold with other experienced CC frames, (fast nova)show us how its done, show us the skill set that makes Ash a asset to the squad with this "rework" or better yet run it solo. Because obviously the 98% of main ash users that disagree with this BS "rework" has some how compelled u to defend its laziness. Ill wait for your video post. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

2 minutes ago, Robert_Cop_2 said:

The thing is I don't need to do all of these things in the same mission. . .

Yeah man, but I do. That is why I play Ash. He is exactly what I am looking for.

As I say in my previous comment. Ash caters to my and other players styles. Since you all have frames that cater to your styles and do things better, then you really ought to be playing with them. I on the other hand cannot enjoy those frames much :( since Ash is exactly already what I want. The only change I think he needs is making the bladestorm a little stronger in damage to compensate for casting/marking speed and energy costs.

3 minutes ago, Robert_Cop_2 said:

Right now Ash offers poor stealth combined with poor offense not really an appealing combo imho

So play with a frame that has better stealth and better offence. Loki doesn't have better offence either, he has better stealth though, so why aren't people complaining about that?

Sure its all a matter of preference, you, me, all of us. For example, I don't like being in Stealth all the time. Like, at all. And I hate it even more when I experience it with Loki (the "silencing effect" it really does get to me). There is nothing wrong with Loki, or stealth, its simply a matter of preference.

All I am saying is that for my taste and preference and for main-ing in melee, Ash is exactly what I am looking for and always has been. Nova does not cover my needs, I play melee and don't want to rush around the stage, but close in on my prey, and so much more for each of the frames you mentioned I don't want to tire you even more than I already have man.

Where are all the people that prefer this direction btw? lol. Not their forum day? :P

Yesterday I found so many people online and we were all agreeing to how Ash is a melee focused frame and we all liked playing with him like that >.<
Players content with him as I am noticing clearly aren't giving feedback. And that is to be expected I guess, most people tend to give feedback when they dislike something rather than like it which is the norm after all.

 

Nezha is a man? Wut? o.O
LOL. Never noticed till you said it. Its the Princes Leia buns that mix one up :P

[OTF4L]

"Alas poor Ash, I knew him well"  .....

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

Youve never asked yourself while marking enemies why dont i just FT instead?

 

You seem sure of yourself with his new skill set.

 

So you should post a video running a defense or survival 80-100 sortie eximus stronghold with other experienced CC frames

 

Because obviously the 98% of main ash users that disagree with this BS "rework" has some how compelled u to defend its laziness. Ill wait for

On the contrary, if you read my comments you would have read, repeatedly, that I said I spam Teleport and Smoke Screen a lot (and I mention more than several times I use Fatal Teleport too). FT is completely different, it relocates you, BS does not. Meanwhile, FT has one target, BS has several. While I mark targets on the contrary I am already FT-ing. I am marking targets without even trying, simply going about my business as usual with the rest of my skills. When I want to use BS, its always ready.

 

Of course I do, I hardly used Blade Storm period. Teleport has more targets. And smoke screen can be used better. So why wouldn't I be? I'm practically doing the same thing already. Blade Storm's efficiency has been dropped, this I said plenty of times, and I am completely cool with it as it has gained some better traits. Like I said, I can 

 

Would love too, soon as I free space up from the other videos I was making for YouTube I was actually aiming to do just this. Talking about it has become tiring, and I myself want to simply show how I play Ash rather than keep trying to explain.

 

Obviously the 98% ... based on what? On the contrary I found plenty of people online that are enjoying the new rework. The truth is that people that have something they dislike usually give feedback. Those that are cool with it less so. They are simply playing and enjoying the game with him.

[OTF4L]

20 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

Nezha is a man? Wut? o.O
LOL. Never noticed till you said it. Its the Princes Leia buns that mix one up :P

Nezha Diety

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

21 minutes ago, CorrinAvatan said:

If you're gonna knock on Loki, at least know what he can and can't do.

Actually, if you payed any attention to my comments, you see that I covered the same things you mentioned. Repeating myself over and over again however is more tiring than you think. Switch Teleport is not as effective as you make it out to be, not by a longshot. In fact, I haven't seen a single Loki player it use it right in the 4 years I have been playing. In theory Loki players sure do like to toss that around a lot, but the evidence in game is never present.

 

I'm done explaining things. (XB1)FCastle74 had the best idea and I agree. A video is the only way to showcase something.

 

And I was not the one knocking on Loki, if you are going to get things out of context do it right. In fact I support the fact that Loki is good for a different playstyle. Don't put words in my mouth, it was others that keep comparing Loki to Ash, saying Ash is useless. Well I beg to differ. If we are comparing the two and going by play style preference, Loki is the one that is useless to my needs, not Ash. Its completely subjective.

 

Off to enjoy my "crappy Ash"... So much talking about it in fact has made me want to play with him even more. My feedback has been given and DE should be able to collect enough info from us all in the end and the points made. End of the day I stand my what I said before, and that is:

 

"We can all play how we like. But please, for the last time, since you all clearly already know which frames "do things better and are more effective than Ash" then use them. Evidently they suit you better. Those of us that want this specific playstyle, Ash is the only one that delivers. Let... it... go! There are 29 other frames in the game to suit your needs. Take your pick!"

 

Nuff said. Stop trying to make every frame "usefull" in the same way.

 

Tenno Out

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

20 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

On the contrary, if you read my comments you would have read, repeatedly, that I said I spam Teleport and Smoke Screen a lot (and I mention more than several times I use Fatal Teleport too). FT is completely different, it relocates you, BS does not. Meanwhile, FT has one target, BS has several. While I mark targets on the contrary I am already FT-ing. I am marking targets without even trying, simply going about my business as usual with the rest of my skills. When I want to use BS, its always ready.

 

Of course I do, I hardly used Blade Storm period. Teleport has more targets. And smoke screen can be used better. So why wouldn't I be? I'm practically doing the same thing already. Blade Storm's efficiency has been dropped, this I said plenty of times, and I am completely cool with it as it has gained some better traits. Like I said, I can 

 

Would love too, soon as I free space up from the other videos I was making for YouTube I was actually aiming to do just this. Talking about it has become tiring, and I myself want to simply show how I play Ash rather than keep trying to explain.

 

Obviously the 98% ... based on what? On the contrary I found plenty of people online that are enjoying the new rework. The truth is that people that have something they dislike usually give feedback. Those that are cool with it less so. They are simply playing and enjoying the game with him.

waiting....

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

17 minutes ago, HazaRD-WARRIOR said:

Actually, if you payed any attention to my comments, you see that I covered the same things you mentioned. Repeating myself over and over again however is more tiring than you think. Switch Teleport is not as effective as you make it out to be, not by a longshot. In fact, I haven't seen a single Loki player it use it right in the 4 years I have been playing. In theory Loki players sure do like to toss that around a lot, but the evidence in game is never present.

 

I'm done explaining things. (XB1)FCastle74 had the best idea and I agree. A video is the only way to showcase something.

 

And I was not the one knocking on Loki, if you are going to get things out of context do it right. In fact I support the fact that Loki is good for a different playstyle. Don't put words in my mouth, it was others that keep comparing Loki to Ash, saying Ash is useless. Well I beg to differ. If we are comparing the two and going by play style preference, Loki is the one that is useless to my needs, not Ash. Its completely subjective.

 

Off to enjoy my "crappy Ash"... So much talking about it in fact has made me want to play with him even more. My feedback has been given and DE should be able to collect enough info from us all in the end and the points made. End of the day I stand my what I said before, and that is:

 

"We can all play how we like. But please, for the last time, since you all clearly already know which frames "do things better and are more effective than Ash" then use them. Evidently they suit you better. Those of us that want this specific playstyle, Ash is the only one that delivers. Let... it... go! There are 29 other frames in the game to suit your needs. Take your pick!"

 

Nuff said. Stop trying to make every frame "usefull" in the same way.

 

Tenno Out

Yes ill be waiting...

[Entharias]

This is not a war between you guys, so give feedback about the Ash ''rework'' or don't write anything at all.

[DEATHLOK]

Ash was great as a frame that could push back HARD when a squad was being overwhelmed. But Ash was often abused, and I wouldn't argue otherwise. I've often found myself bored and guilty playing him on low-level missions. On high-level missions, it becomes clear Ash is a squishy frame that requires some real skill to play.

To say Ash overpowered every other frame is to betray a lack of familiarity with other frames.

That aside, the rework is abhorrent. And it's not sarcasm when I suggest that if the recent changes to Bladestorm remain, then every other frame should have to manually target enemies for AoE damage, as well. With new targeting mechanic applied to every warframe—and not just the one with this month's target on its back—then the community might reflect on the change with less relish and delight. Or, everyone will be overcome with joy, because the new mechanic proves to be design brilliance. Who's to say?

It was great using Ash as a big hammer. However—and apart from any arguments as to balance—I can understand how some people would be sick of watching unending Bladestorm animations, losing any sense of being personally engage in battle. I agree that Bladestorm needed to be change, but not in the way it was changed this weekend.

There have been smart suggestions that would have served the overall community better than the current rework. A burst AoE or a DoT AoE can be designed in such a way as to respect the vision behind Ash and the notion of a "blade storm."

The focus should be on resolving those endless, looping animations, rather than neutering yet another frame for standing apart from the crowd in some way.

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

10 minutes ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

Yes ill be waiting...

Soon as I can. Don't hold your breath if you are expecting kill counts surpassing CC focused frames since that is not what Ash is about. But I will gladly prove to you how useful Ash still is. As I already mentioned plenty times over, the point to Ash is not CC damage. There are other frames out there that do that better for years now. That is why he is also not as squishy. Making him as durable as he is and the most powerful in the game is overkill.

The assumption that he is not useful anymore however does make me laugh. I really wonder if any of you ever played Ash before the rework either. Sure don't seem like it, more and more I am being convinced the feedback section is indeed filled with "press 4 to win" players. Ah well. Each to their own ;)

[UrielColtan]

23 hours ago, (PS4)supersocc11 said:

I'm the only person who actually LIKES the bladestorm cutscenes aren't i....they aren't even long and they look awesome. It shows the essence of ash!

Probably not the only one, but flash should not take priority over gameplay and basic utility.

Even the slightest second makes a difference, this is why things like latency and FPS are also important to people. People value flow.

The cutscenes are too long for much contribution and they are uninteractive, making for bad flow, and therefore boring if not outright repugnant, especially when paired with multiple use.

Ash's essence should be conveyed through gameplay, not interrupting cutscenes. If the goal was to make the Bladestorm more interactive and beyond pressing 4 and waiting, as DE Danielle specifies in the linked Ash thread, then they wont really be addressing that issue by leaving the non-interactive cutscenes in there.

Edited November 30, 2016 by UrielColtan

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

10 minutes ago, Nakrast said:

This is not a war between you guys, so give feedback about the Ash ''rework'' or don't write anything at all.

Best comment ever.

Not sure why my initial opinion had to be torn down by every single opinion out there and made personal as to which frame has the biggest ** but anyhoot. I'm not that much better for responding in the end either.

On the other hand, I tried my best to respond with reasoning to back up my opinions. All I keep hearing is "Ash is doing less damage"... Which I never disagreed to, and I doubt anyone even read my initial feedback properly, I myself said some extra damage on his Blade Storm should be great to compensate for the changes.

From there on, people are simply not agreeing to a mechanic because it takes them longer, and I thought I point out to them the extra things this mechanic can offer that they probably didn't notice. Like, again for the 10th time, free Blade Storms.

I doubt anyone even went out and tried some of the tips I gave for a build that would work. They straight up said "it sucks". Nice! Super!! Amazing!!!

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

11 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

Ash was great as a frame that could push back HARD when a squad was being overwhelmed. But Ash was often abused, and I wouldn't argue otherwise. I've often found myself bored and guilty playing him on low-level missions. On high-level missions, it becomes clear Ash is a squishy frame that requires some real skill to play.

To say Ash overpowered every other frame is to betray a lack of familiarity with other frames.

That aside, the rework is abhorrent. And it's not sarcasm when I suggest that if the recent changes to Bladestorm remain, then every other frame should have to manually target enemies for AoE damage, as well. With new targeting mechanic applied to every warframe—and not just the one with this month's target on its back—then the community might reflect on the change with less relish and delight. Or, everyone will be overcome with joy, because the new mechanic proves to be design brilliance. Who's to say?

It was great using Ash as a big hammer. However—and apart from any arguments as to balance—I can understand how some people would be sick of watching unending Bladestorm animations, losing any sense of being personally engage in battle. I agree that Bladestorm needed to be change, but not in the way it was changed this weekend.

There have been smart suggestions that would have served the overall community better than the current rework. A burst AoE or a DoT AoE can be designed in such a way as to respect the vision behind Ash and the notion of a "blade storm."

The focus should be on resolving those endless, looping animations, rather than neutering yet another frame for standing apart from the crowd in some way.

But you said it yourself, it was rather OP correct?

So why should all other frames get the same targeting rework?

He can still do burst damage though. A single activation of the mark can for example target all enemies in a line of fire. There isn't even enough energy for people to be, as they say, "frantically looking around" to target enemies. And this caters to a burst damage does it not?

I still think the mechanic is great, as it can also single out targets for less Energy which is useful for other missions too, and lastly although I haven't mentioned it yet, solo too. Yeah, whats wrong with some solo as well?

I just believe it should be stronger/deal more damage since we are attacking less targets at a time. This I can agree to. Or perhaps increase the targeting spread to get more enemies at once? Not sure if that would help but sometimes my game bugs out (I think) and I target much more than I anticipate I would.

 

The unending bladestorm animation is something that is a gain some lose some :( On the one hand, its cool as a skill. Vanishes and strikes all enemies (now all targeted enemies), the speed with Fury for example for me is lightning fast and I barely wait for it to end any more. However, here are the downsides. The old mechanic will target many enemies on the go, and it would sit there for ages when the server had too much of a load. This is truly very annoying. At times for me it would wait 2 seconds before attacking the next target. I can actually walk around between each target, that is how much it delays. I don't know how to work around this without completely changing the skill. The skill is cool, but it really does to become cumbersome when there is more than too much load in the game.

[Tuxie]

On 11/27/2016 at 8:27 PM, Ker-Blammo said:

The rework actually feels really sweet. Give it a try before you judge so hard. I was pleasantly surprised.

I gave it a try and it was far worse than it looked. I wasn't surprised at all.

[HazaRD-WARRIOR]

8 minutes ago, Tuxie said:

I gave it a try and it was far worse than it looked. I wasn't surprised at all.

Ah well, we would all have to agree to disagree then.

The only thing I think, again, we can all agree on is that there are frames that do things much better for the frame or preference of those that disliked rework, correct? Hence they have frames to cover their needs. Ash in turn covers a set of needs of other players that are not covered by other frames.

Fingers crossed DE leaves Ash alone. The only change I can consider to be ok would be adding some more damage to the skill. That's all.