Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nazrethim]

I hope Ash gets it's rightful rework soon. This poor excuse of a revisit that is just a nerf is driving me mad.

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

the saddest part is that we're hitting the 11th month without a word from DE...

Smoke screen really needs some added perks to make it stand out on its own rather than being a shorter version of loki's invis... ( speed and or melee attack speed bonus or larger range and more consistent blinding when casted or leaving a smoke effect in place after casting it [ like the mini rift fissure left behind by limbo when he's dashing in the rift ] that draws all the aggro and enemy fire thinking they're shooting at something when we've already moved away...whatever )

Bladestorm augment needs some new perks as well imo

everything else i had in mind has been pretty much discussed already

Ps: and while we're at it, make his 1st scale too based on enemy level , much like oberon 1st getting reworked

Edited April 25, 2017 by arm4geddon-117

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Post Updates:

Spoiler

25/04/2017

- Moved to Feedback Category cause seems like not many people visit Fan Concepts :/

The original is here:

 

22/04/2017

- Removed the Shuriken armor reduction

 

20/04/2017

- Created the post

- Added the pictures and cleaned up the post a bit, HOT DAUM just posted it and i have already edited it like 5 times XD

- Added some clarification regarding Ash Slash procs and Relentless Combination.

 

26/04/2017

- Added a friendly reminder that these changes aply only to PvE and not PvP.

- Added the "Unused abilities" section, have fun reading it!

 

 

 

Ash's problem and the Goal of this rework

Ash has always been in a sort of awkward spot when it comes to Warframe where his kit is not really "bad", his Abilities are completely functional and follow Ash's theme pretty well (That being THE ninja of space ninjas) however there are two skills that bother me: Smoke Screen and Blade storm.

- Smoke Screen feels like a poor man's Invisibility. Loki's invisibility will hide you for almost twice the duration (without mods) and you could say "but smoke screen can stagger enemies" yeah but what's that good for really if it comes and goes so quick? The skill is just a weaker invisibility for all intends and purposes.

- Blade Storm is a different case. The Skill does its job perfectly fine, it does kill almost everything in range with deadly efficiency, the real problem is something that DE has been trying to fix recently: Lack of Player input. Just press 4 and watch Ash obliterate any lesser creature with his clones, the fact that it works doesn't necessarily means it's the right thing to have.

Main Objectives of the rework:

- Ash abilities become varied tools to aid a Tenno's creativity.

- Focused on high priority  target takedowns, like a real ninja.

- Stealth is an alternative, rewarded playstyle.

- Adding flavor to Ash's animations by playing on his theme being "THE Badass Space Ninja"

A FRIENDLY REMINDER:

PvP was not considered for these changes. Everything from basic skills to Augments are apllied to PvE and not PvP.

Just saying cause there have been a couple of people confused about it. Not mad dont worry i know it can be a bit confusing at first and i should have clarified it better.

 

Proposed changes for the new Ash

EFFICIENT BRUTALITY

Spoiler

 

Replaces Hemorrhage

Efficient Brutality:

- Combo meter now increases the Damage of abilities as well.

     - While Affected by the Combo Counter abilities arent considered a melee for Melee exclusive effects such as Relentless Combination.

- Increases Combo Meter duration by 3 seconds.

     - Stacks with similar mods such as Body Count and Drifting Contact.

 

 

 SHURIKEN

Spoiler

 

Retooled Mechanic: Throws an enchanted shuriken in a straight line dealing Slash damage and proccing Slash.

- Shuriken travel in a straight path with no fall off.

- Holding the Key will fire shurikens at their max firing speed. Mechanically identical to a thrown secondary.

- Landing shurikens on enemies increases the combo meter.

- Shuriken contact Damage affected by body part multipliers.

- The Bleed DoT inflicts 35% of the initial damage per tick for a total of 7 ticks over 6 seconds. The Bleed damage bypasses armor and shields.

- The Bleed DoT will be affected if the Shuriken hits a body part multiplier (Head, limps), a weak spot (Banshee Sonar, Helios' Detect Vulnerability, etc) and Combo multiplier.

- Considered a one handed action, doesn't interrupts any other previous action.

 

Shuriken data:

Damage: 30 / 90 / 180 / 250 Slash damage

Range: Unlimited (Stops when colliding with terrain or an enemy)

Shuriken "Fire rate": 5.83

Cost: 25 Energy

 

Shuriken augments:

Explosive Kunai: Equip Ash with Deadly Explosive Kunais that leave a trail of explosive orbs. Increases cost by 20%

Replaces Seeking Shuriken

- Instead of shurikens the skill throws Kunais with concealed explosives.

- Holding the Key will fire Kunais at their max firing speed. Mechanically identical to a thrown secondary.

- Kunais fire slower and have a distinctive end where the kunai disappears and leaves one last explosive orb.

- Deal Puncture damage on im pact and pierces through enemies, leaving a volatile orb every 4 meters it travels that explode 2 seconds after spawning or if an orb explosion reaches its area of effect.

- Kunai impact damage and resulting explosions are affected by body-part multipliers.

- Explosive Kunai refreshes the combo meter only with the Kunai's impact, not the explosions.

- Considered a one handed action, doesn't interrupts any other previous action.

 

 

Augment Data:

 

Damage:

 

- Kunai Impact: 20 / 90 / 140 / 200 Puncture damage

 

- Orb explosion: 150 / 160 / 175 / 240 Blast Damage

Range:

 

- Kunai thrown range: 20 meters

- Orb Explosive radius: 4 meters.

Kunai "Firing Speed": 2.5

Energy Cost: 30 Energy

 

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Half Duration affects Explosive Kunai fuse time.

Strength Mods:

- Affects Damage dealt of the shuriken and its variants.

Range Mods:

- Affects Explosive Kunai explosion size and max thrown range.

Efficiency Mods:

- Ability Cost.

 

 

Reference Picture:

 

ASHIKO

 

Spoiler

 

Ashiko: Ash dashes where he is aiming kicking the first enemy he comes in contact with.

- Reworked Teleport.

- Dashes at the direction Ash is aiming stopping at the first enemy hit.

- If Ash collides with an enemy that enemy will take damage, slash procced and staggered for 2 seconds while Ash will bounce off perfect for a follow up.

- Connecting an enemy weak spot refunds part of the energy cost, killing the target with the ability will completely refund the cost.

- Damage is affected by body multipliers. Including generated ones like Banshee's Sonar or Helios' Detect Vulnerability precept.

- Connecting an enemy with the dash increases the combo counter.

- Holding the Key allows Ash (and the camera) to turn around at the end of the dash, perfect for follow ups.

- Dashing to an unalerted enemy will perform a silent takedown, killing it instantly if using Hidden Blades. Refunds full energy cost if the finisher kills the target.

 

Ability data:

Damage: 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 Slash damage

Weakspot refund: 15/20/25/30% energy cost.

Dash Range: 8 / 10 / 16 / 22 Meters

Cost: 25 Energy

 

Ashiko augment:

Springboard Dropkick: Dropkick foes away with great force before bouncing back.

- Replaces Fatal Teleport.

- Wont trigger finishers on unalerted enemies.

- Dropkicked enemies (that's a term now) will take puncture damage and pushed back in the direction Ash was dashing for twice the distance that Ash would have dashed otherwise as Ash bounces back.

- Every time the target hits an enemy they will take puncture damage, pushed aside and knocked down. The victim takes a bit of damage for each enemy it collides with.

- If the victim is pushed against the wall it will take further damage and be stunned for 3 seconds, open for finisher.

- Kicking an enemy mid air back to the ground will force them into a knock down along with the same condition as if they hit a wall.

- Hitting a grounded enemy diagonally from the air will result in the victim pushed back in a straight path depending on the angle it got hit.

- Combo Counter increases when dropkicking an enemy as well as each enemy it collides with.

- Damage dealt though the entire process will be affected by the Combo meter's current count.

 

Augment Data:

Dropkick Damage: 100 / 150 / 200 Puncture damage

Colliding damage, Victim: 30% of the ability's damage dealt to the victim.

Colliding damage, bystander: 60% of the ability's damage dealt to the victim.

Colliding damage, Wall: 30% of the ability's damage dealt to the victim.

 

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- no effect.

Strength Mods:

- Affects all instances of damage.

Range Mods:

- Affects dash range.

Efficiency Mods:

- Won't affect the Energy cost directly, only the refund on weak spot hits. More efficiency more Energy refunded.

 

Reference Picture:

 

SMOKE BOMB

 

Spoiler

 

Reworked Smoke Screen

(New 3) Smoke Bomb: Ash throws a bomb that creates a smoke screen in an area.

- Taping the key will have Ash throw the bomb directly at his feet. Holding the Key allows Ash to aim and throw the bomb at a certain location.

- The Bomb will only stagger foes if they are alerted or directly hit by the projectile. Opening them up for finishers.

- Enemies hit directly by the bomb will be staggered and suffer impact damage.

- Ash is invisible so long as he remains among the smoke and 3 seconds if he walks out of the smoke.

- Shooting, attacking with melee or taking damage reveals Ash for 3 seconds, no matter the noise level of his weapon. DoT effects won't reveal Ash.

- Ash will become invisible instantly if he is within a smoke bomb's initial explosion. Including bombs used by another Ash.

- Killing a target in the smoke will conceal the body. The body is still there and can be interacted with but enemies will not be able to see them.

- Allies inside the cloud gain the same effects with the same rules.

- Enemies inside the cloud will have their accuracy reduced.

- Ash can only have up to three Smoke Screens at a time. Throwing a new bomb will replace the older one.

 

Ability Data:

Throw arc range: 10 Meter

Smoke screen radius With: 7 / 8 / 10 / 14 Meters.

Smoke screen radius Height: 2 Meters

Bomb Impact damage: 150 Impact damage.

Smoke Accuracy reduction: 40%

Cost: 35 Energy

 

Smoke Bomb Augment:

Mending Incense:

- Replaces Smoke Shadow.

- Increases cost by 40%

- Smoke bomb also heals Ash and allies inside the every 2 second.

- Healing is NOT affected by Ash's Passive.

- Doubles the healing amount if the target's health hasn't been damaged in the last 4 seconds.

- Stacking Smoke Screens wont overlap unless it comes from a different Ash.

 

Augment Data:

Smoke Screen Healing: 50 / 75 / 100 / 125 Hp.

Increased cost: 49 Energy

 

Poisonous bomb:

- Replaces Tear gas, PvP and PvE

- Enemies inside the cloud will take Viral Damage over time and afflicted with Viral proc so long as they remain inside the cloud or 6 seconds after they leave.

- Enemies who can jump or fly over it are only affected if they ever touch the clouds on the floor.

- Stacking Smoke Screens wont overlap unless it comes from a different Ash.

 

Augment Data:

Bomb Impact damage: 150 Viral Damage.

Smoke Screen Viral DoT: 100 / 150 / 175 Viral Damage.

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Smoke duration.

Strength Mods:

- Smoke bomb's impact damage.

- Poisonous Impact and damage over time.

- Incense Healing over time

- Smoke screen Accuracy reduction.

Range Mods:

- smoke screen radius with.

 

Reference Picture:

 

HIDDEN BLADES

 

Spoiler

 

Replaces Bladestorm

 (New 4) Hidden Blades: Ash prepares for the inevitable combat, equipping his hidden blades.

Consist of three weapons: Knives (used in various finishers), Sword (regular combos) and Ashiko (only when feet are used in combat).

- Costs no energy to maintain if Ash is undetected. This counts when enemies are unalerted or Ash is invisible by any means.

- Cant use any other weapon besides his hidden blades.

 

Ability Data:

Activation Cost: 25 Energy

Maintained cost: 2.5 Energy per second.

 

 

Hidden Blades (Weapon)

A deadly collection of blades especially crafted to rip even the toughest of defenses, enhanced through Tenno teachings and powers.

Passive enhancement:

- Increases combo meter and Stealth Multiplier time by 2 seconds.

- Wall latch last 20 seconds.

- Moves 20% faster.

- Passively block 35% of frontal incoming damage and auto parry melee attacks.

- Blocking will block 50% of incoming damage.

- Finishers will always kill the target.

 

Movement set:

Clean shave: E E E E E

Right Scratch to right, slash to the left, spin, left scratch, right kick, spinning left back kick (staggers).

Blade Storm: E E hold E E E E

Right Scratch to right, slash to the left, spin, spinning back kick (Disarm), kick, kick, axe kick (x2 Multiplier and knock down and ground finisher if last hit connects).

Precision cut: E E block E E E E

Right Scratch to right, slash to the left, hand behind back, right hand cut in three different (right, left, down) directions, backhand (disarms and pushes enemy aside into a knockdown).

Internal Bleeding (Frontal Finisher) Stabs the enemy in the chest with two long blades, Rips them out sideways (Splits the enemy in half).

Spine Check (Back Finisher): Stabs the enemy in the back then stabs them in the face tossing them into the ground.

Murder Heel (Downed enemy): Raises the leg up to his head then slams it down into the enemy.

Wrist Breaker kick (Charge Attack): A horizontal Spinning back kick that deals 3x damage and disarms enemies in a cone in front of Ash, guaranteed to proc slash.

Spinner (Slide Attack and wall attack): Spins forward dealing Finisher damage to all enemies around Ash. 

Abating Grasp (Slam attack): Falls kicking the ground knocking enemies back in a 1 meter radius. If it lands on an enemy it will knock it down and performs a finisher on the enemy.

Neck twister (Mid air attack): Vertical spinning kick, guaranteed to proc slash.

 

Hidden Arsenal Augment:

Unmatched Agility: While Using Hidden Blades Increases Knock down recovery, Bullet Jump speed, Heavy landing immunity and Movement speed.

- All the stats increase from the Augment stack with their respective mods.

Augment Stats:

Knock Down Recovery: 50 / 100 / 150%

Bullet Jump: 20 / 50 / 80%

Movement Speed: 60 / 90 / 120%

 

 

Reference Picture:

 

Though process for the changes

Shuriken:

A lot of people see Shuriken as a very meh skills, for me it was a blank slate. It only needed something extra to make it a more interesting skill. This new Shuriken works more as a tool to shred important targets and enhance melee combat in combination with his passive.

 

Shuriken Augment:

For the Explosive Kunai Augment I wanted to make a completely different ability, a new tool that offers a different playstyle based on crowd control rather than single target takedown. Though it can still be pretty deadly when used during those high combo counts.

 

Teleport / Ashiko:

Of all the abilities Teleport was probably the only one that required minimal changes. Really Ashiko is just Teleport 2.0, fancier name to follow Ash's theme and refined mechanics to aid Ash's focus on melee combat and the innate ability to do a melee finisher on unalerted targets for those who want to go full Stealth Ninja Action.

 

Ashiko Augment:

Springboard Dropkick was a really fun one, like the Shuriken augment I just made a completely different ability that works in a similar way but fits a different function. And like the Kunai this one is mainly for full on combat and crowd control, or when you wanna roleplay as a Luchador Space Ninja

It was originally going to be a more focused and "serious" ability but once the thought of Ash dropkicking enemies into each other I just had to do it. It was too fun of an idea to not implement it. Hmmm Someone get on that a "Space Ninja Luchador" Skin for Ash... gonna write that down I may have some ideas for it.

 

Smoke Screen / Smoke Bomb:

Smoke screen was tricky, in its current (live) state it's a poor man's invisibility, just a meh ability overall so I gave it a complete facelift! by facelift I mean I just made it act like a normal Smoke screen does. At first I wanted to make it more like traditional Smoke screens where they hinder visibility for both allies and enemies with big puffs of smoke but I realized that could cause a lot of problems like chugging less powerful computers, Troll Ashes filling entire tiles in smoke, etc.

In the end I kept the visibility reduction as a debuff (shown as accuracy reduction on enemies) while reducing the whole "smoke effect" to floor level while also giving it the ability to make invisible all allies who hide inside it, you know give it some team synergy by default.

 

 

Smoke Bomb Augments:

Took me some time to get ideas for each augment... well for the second augment anyways, Poisonous Bomb was a no brainer, I mean come on he is a ninja! ninjas used Poison on anything they could get their hands on!

I actually got the idea for Healing Incense while watching some videos about Naruto's Jutsus and though "yeah healing smoke screen... yeah it could work". It was a bit hard to balance it out so it doesn't just outheal other healers like Trinity (yeah right) or Oberon. It was fun to play around with the idea none the less.

 

Hidden Blades:

Oh yeah Hidden Blades, the catalyst of many discussions and the main reason I started this rework.

After thinking about some alternatives to Bladestorm, looking through other Ninja tools, abilities and what not but they were either limited by Ash's theme "THE badass Ninja with old school tools" or did not fit with Ash's mobile fighting style. The best option was to give the Hidden Blades as an actual weapon, like many have suggested before.

The hardest part was to give it something unique as we have our fair share of "Exalted Weapon" styles in the game: Excalibur's Exalted Blade, Wukong's Staff, Valkyr's Claws (that also need a rework) so its gonna take some effort for it to stand out.

At first I decided to give it a fighting style similar to that of the Assassins from Assassin's Creed and their fancy hidden blades but the combos weren't good enough no matter how much I played around with the idea, lacked flare and uniqueness , it also needed something else to make it a stand out weapon. It was then when I discovered Covert Lethality giving an instant kill to Daggers Finishers.

From then on I decided to give it more of an Arsenal of Tools to aid him in combat, Later turned into his now three main weapons the "Sword", "Knife" and "Ashiko" each of them used for an specific purpose, the same way Ninjas actually did things back then.

 

Closing thoughts

Took me quite some time but that's all, for now. Even as I was writing this post I kept finding some details that need changing or clarification so expect this to keep evolving as time passes. And that's where you guys come in! these are just MY ideas for the rework and I would love to hear your opinions about it.

Thanks for reading!

 

 

Hey Kids wanna see something fun! here is a list of all the other abilities i planned to add to Ash's Rework but removed for one reason or another and got em saved cause alot of them could be repurposed for a different frame/weapon or even enemy!

Just friendly warning some are REALLY weird, Have fun!

Spoiler

Efficient Brutality (passive):

 

- Combo meter now increases the Damage of abilities as well.

- Increases Combo Meter duration by 3 seconds.

     - Stacks with similar mods such as Body Count and Drifting Contact.

 

 

ENHANCED HIDDEN ARSENAL SET

 

EFFICIENT BRUTALITY

 

Replaces Hemorrhage

Efficient Brutality: Combo meter now increases the Damage of abilities as well.

 

 

SHURIKEN

Retooled Mechanic: throws a shuriken in a straight line dealing Slash damage and proccing Slash.

- Shuriken travel in a straight path with no fall off.

- Mechanically identical to Throwing Dagger Secondary.

- Landing shurikens on enemies increases the combo meter.

- Headshots will deal increases Damage and stun the target for 2 seconds.

- Repeated Headshots will refresh the Stun and the Slash proc.

 

 

Shuriken augments:

 

Explosive Kunai:

 

- Instead of shurikens the skill throws Heavy Kunais with concealed explosives.

- Kunais fire slower and have a distinctive travel arc unlike the shuriken.

- Deal Puncture damage on impact and stuck to any object they hit, exploding two seconds after contact dealing blast damage and proccing blast.

- Explosive Kunai only refreshes the combo meter and only with the Kunai's impact, not the explosions.

 

 

Shadow Fan Shuriken:

 

Replaces Seeking Shuriken

 

- Allows Ash to Throws an Shadow Fan Shuriken witch fires slower than normal Shurikens.

- Shadow Fan shuriken are significantly larger, go through enemies but travel and "fire" slower.

- Shadow Fan Shuriken will only refresh the duration of the combo meter when connecting with enemies.

 

 

HIDDEN ARSENAL ENHANCEMENT:

 

Shuriken:

 

- Shurikens removes 35% of their Max armor. Increasing the damage based on the removed armor.

- Armor reduction will always use Max armor and not current armor.

Shadow fan shuriken:

 

- Amplified Shadow Fan energizes Shuriken increasing its size significantly.

Explosive Kunai:

 

- Amplified Kunai pierces through enemies and leaves a volatile orb every meter it travels that explode 2 seconds after spawning.

 

 

MODS EFFECTS:

 

Duration Mods:

- Explosive Kunai fuse time.

Strength Mods:

 

- Damage dealt of the shuriken and its variants.

Range Mods:

- Increases Explosive Kunai explosion size

- Enhanced Shadow fan size.

 

 STRANGLE LINE:

(New 2) Strangle line: Throws a thin wire kunai at the enemy, wrapping the wire around the target's most vulnerable area (mostly the head), next phase can vary if the key is pressed or held:

Holding the key:

- Pulls the enemy towards Ash, where Ash will proceed to strangle the target dealing Finisher Damage over time.

- Strangling a foe will refresh the combo duration but not increase it.

- If Ash stands on a higher point the target will be left hanging a few meters in the air increasing the damage over time by 20/40/70%.

- If done in the air Ash will pull the target to slam them into the ground and then proceed to strangle them.

- Strangled enemies cant alert their allies, once they die targets are decapitated/cut in half (depending on the target's physiology), each part count as a separate body for abilities like Nekros' Desecrate.

- Strangled enemies can be damaged by outside sources like they normally would and are considered knocked down.

Tapping the key:

- Simply pulls the enemy toward Ash

- If done in the air Ash will pull the target and then proceed to slam them into the ground.

 

Augment Mods:

Replaces Fatal Teleport

Dark Cooperation: Both Strangle line and its enhancement are performed by shadows instead of Ash himself.

- The shadows will perform the same actions Ash would depending on the button.

- Pressing the key on an enemy strangled by a Shadow Clone will have the clone disappear without using energy.

 

HIDDEN ARSENAL ENHANCEMEN

Strangle line:

- Dash in a straight line passing through all enemies, shadow clones emerge from Ash to stab each enemy he comes near dealing Slashing damage and procing Slash.

- Mechanically identical to Excalibur's Slash Dash. Except with Shadow clones doing the killing.

- Holding the key will leave Ash (and the camera) facing backwards. Useful for followups.

- Using Shadow dash while within the smoke screen will hide him as soon as the skill ends. So long as he remains in the area.

 

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- No effect.

Strength Mods:

- Increases all damage.

Range Mods:

- Increases pull range

 

 

SMOKE BOMB

Reworked Smoke Screen

(New 3) Smoke Bomb: Ash throws a bomb that creates a smoke screen in an area.

- Taping the key will have Ash throw the bomb directly at his feet. Holding the Key allows Ash to aim and throw the bomb at a certain location.

- The Bomb will only stagger foes if they are alerted or directly hit by the projectile. Opening them up for finishers.

- Enemies hit directly by the bomb will be staggered and suffer impact damage.

- Ash is invisible so long as he remains among the smoke and 3 seconds if he walks out of the smoke.

- Shooting, attacking with melee or taking damage reveals Ash for 3 seconds, no matter the noise level of his weapon.

- Killing a target in the smoke will conceal the body. The body is still there and can be interacted with but enemies will not be able to see them.

- Allies inside the cloud gain the same effects with the same rules

- Enemies inside the cloud will have their accuracy reduced.

- Ash can only have up to three Smoke Screens at a time. Throwing a new bomb will replace the older one.

 

Shadow Camouflage Augment:

Mending Incense:

- Replaces Smoke Shadow.

- Smoke bomb also heals Ash and allies inside the cloud for 2% of their HP every 2 second.

- Doubles the healing amount if the target's health hasn't been damaged in the last 4 seconds.

- Stacking Smoke Screens wont overlap unless it comes from a different Ash.

 

Poisonous bomb:

- Replaces Tear gas, PvP and PvE

- Enemies inside the cloud will take Viral Damage over time and afflicted with Viral proc so long as they remain inside the cloud or 6 seconds after they leave.

- Enemies who can jump or fly over it are only affected if they ever touch the clouds on the floor.

- Stacking Smoke Screens wont overlap unless it comes from a different Ash.

 

HIDDEN ARSENAL ENHANCEMENT:

Smoke Bomb:

- Turns into Smoke Javelin.

- New projectile: Faster projectile speed, no falloff, sticks to target moving the smoke screen with it.

- Follows the same rules as the normal Smoke bomb or its Augments, but on the move.

 

Ability Data:

Throw arc range: 10 Meter

Smoke screen range (Meters): 10 (20 for entire radius).

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Smoke duration.

Strength Mods:

- Smoke bomb's impact damage.

- Poisonous Impact and damage over time.

- Incense Healing over time

Range Mods:

- smoke screen radius

- Smoke javeling range.

 

 

 

 

HIDDEN ARSENAL

Replaces Bladestorm

 (New 4) Hidden Arsenal: Ash prepares for the inevitable combat, equipping his hidden blades as well as amplifying his other abilities.

- Hidden Arsenal costs no energy to maintain but amplified abilities cost more energy. The energy increase is counted before Power Efficiency.

- Cant use any other weapon besides his hidden blades.

 

 

Hidden Blades (Weapon)

 

Passive enhancement:

- Increases combo meter time by 2 seconds.

- Passively block 35% of frontal incoming damage.

- Moves 20% faster.

- Blocking will block 80% of incoming damage.

- Stealth attack will always knock down their target.

Movement set:

Precision cut: E E E E

Palm stab, palm stab, turn around for an elbow hit, spin back around for a final cut with the long blade.

Blade Storm: E E pause E E E E

Pal Stab, Palm stab, three mantis strikes, palm push finisher (pushes enemy back an knocks them down)

 

Fragmented Blade (Charge Attack): A very quick two hit attack, first attack stabs the enemy and breaks the blade inside the enemy, second hit makes the blade explode dealing finisher damage to all enemies in a 3 meter radius and knocking down the main target.

Spinner (Slide Attack): Spins forward dealing Finisher damage to all enemies around Ash.  

Abating Grasp (Slam attack): Falls kicking the ground knocking enemies back in a 2 meter radius. If it lands on an enemy it will knock it down and performs a finisher on the enemy.

Murder Heel (Downed enemy): Raises the leg up to his head then slams it down into the enemy.

 

Hidden Arsenal Augment:

Silent Kill: Increase Stealth damage

Art of Lies: Using Hidden arsenal while undetected disguises Ash as an enemy

 

 

 

ENHANCED HIDDEN ARSENAL SET

 

 

Unused content

Hidden Arsenal Augment:

 

Silent Killer:

- Increases the Stealth Multiplier Stacks by 3/4/5

- The Stealth Multiplier bonuses only apply when Hidden Blades are active. Loosing Hidden blades by any means will reduce the bonuses to their defaults.

 

 

 

CUTTHROAT

 

Cutthroat: Ash dashes through enemies in the blink of an eye, hitting their weak spots along the way with his hidden blades.

Replaces Teleport.

 

- Dashes at the direction Ash is aiming.

- Enemies that Ash passes through will take 150 / 250 / 350 / 450 Slash damage increased by enemy's higher weak spot multiplier (Head, Limbs, Banshee's Sonar), as well as being staggered for 2 seconds.

- Holding the Key allows Ash (and the camera) to turn around at the end of the dash, perfect for

 

 

 

SNEAK ATTACK

 

Reason for removal: Took away some of the basic ideas for the rework, mainly player control.

Replaces Teleport

(2) Sneak Attack: Quickly Dashes a set distance, At the end of the dash throws Shurkens to nearby enemies.

- Stops at the end of the range or when hitting a solid object like walls or floor.

- "Dash" is instantaneous like teleport.

- Throws 5/8/14/18 Shurikens spread evenly to nearby enemies.

- Thrown shurikens will automatically aim for nearby enemies.

- These shurikens cant punch through or seek out enemies.

Shuriken augments will affect the ability:

Explosive Kunai: Throws a single, smaller explosive Kunai that stick to targets then explodes.

- Limited to 5/6/8/10 Kunais per dash, spread evenly across the surrounding enemies.

- Will always throw a single Kunai.

- Kunais used by this ability only explode at the enemy they land on, Explosion work the same ways as the ability would on its own.

 

Ability Data:

Dash distance: 6 / 8 / 10 / 12 Meters

Shuriken spread radius: 11 Meters

Shurikens used by this ability will damage and behave the same way as they normally do unless stated otherwise.

Quick Step Augments:

Shuriken swarm: Enchants Shurikens to follow and continuously attack the surrounding enemies for a few seconds.

Replaces fatal teleport

- No longer affected by Shurieken aguments. Alwyas uses normal Shurikens.

- Reduces Shuriken count by 50/40/30/20%

- Enchanted Shurikens last for 2/3/3/4/5 hits and seek out enemies.

- Enchanted Shurikens take about 1 second between attacks. Unafected by mods.

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Increases amount of Shurikens/Kunais summoned.

Strength Mods:

- Increases Shuriken Swarm hit count.

Range Mods:

- Increases dash range and shuriken spread radius.

 

 

 

 

QUICK STEP

 

Reason of removal: Too complicated to balance, replacement works better with the rework's goal.

Replaces Teleport

 

(2) Quick Step: Dash in a straight line passing through all enemies, Ash will throw Shurikens at all enemies near his dash.

- Mechanically identical to Excalibur's Slash Dash. Except with Ash throwing shurikens at enemies.

- Increases the amount of shurikens thrown to each enemy by 1/2/2/3.

- Increases the combo meter for each enemy hit not with the amount of shurikens thrown.

- Holding the key will leave Ash (and the camera) facing backwards. Useful for followups.

- Using Shadow dash while within the smoke screen will hide him as soon as the skill ends. So long as he remains in the area.

Shuriken augments will affect the ability:

Explosive Kunai: Throws a single, smaller explosive Kunai that stick to targets then explodes.

- Limited to 5/6/8/10 Kunais per dash spread evenly across the dash.

- Will always throw a single Kunai.

- Kunais used by this ability only explode at the enemy they land on, Explosion work the same ways as the ability would on its own.

 

Quick Step Augments:

Priority Targeting:

- No longer affected by Shuriken Augments

- Fires only one Shuriken per enemy stunning them.

 

Shadow Fan Shuriken: Allows Ash to Throws an Shadow Fan Shuriken and increases the energy cost by 40%

Reason for removal: With the new passive and Hidden Arsenal it would be far too much damage, potentially overthrowing other damage frames. Gonna revisit the idea later

 

- Has a two step animation where Ash throws a folded shadow fan shuriken then immediately pulls a string that opens it up and makes it travel vertically.

- The shadow shuriken will block incoming bullets as it travels.

- Travels at 15 meters per second, same speed as Exalted Blade's waves. Slowest of all Shurikens.

- Shadow Fan Shuriken will only refresh the duration of the combo meter when connecting with enemies.

Augment Data

Cost: 45 Energy

 

 

 

ASSASSINATE

Replaces Teleport

(New 2) Assassinate : Ash dashes to the target stabbing them in the process with his hidden blade and knocking them into the ground. If they survive.

- When attacking from stealth this ability is considered a stealth attack with a x12 multiplier.

- If use from the shadows Ash will instead teleport to the enemy then drag them into the shadows where it stabs them.

 

 

Efficient brutality augment:

 

Strangle Line: Tear the enemy armor where the wire kunai lands dealing damage and exposing the area permanently Increasing damage in the area by 150%. Holding the key will still pull the target.

Amplified: Every enemy hit by the dash will  be stunned for 1.5 seconds.

 

 

SMOKE BOMB

Reason for removal: I was enjoying toying with the idea of having a smoke bomb mechanic in the game but the more I developed it, moved and changed things and put it against the fairness filter I just couldn't find a way to make it balanced and unique, it always was either overpowered or just an unnecessary hindrance  so sadly I had to remove it, though I will keep it saved, it may come in handy for something else.

 

SMOKE BOMB: Throws a bomb that shrouds an area in smoke.

Activation Mechanics: Tapping the key will throw the smoke bomb at Ash's feet, holding the key will allow Ash to throw the bomb at range.

AI interaction with the Smoke screen:

- Inside the cloud: units inside are concealed as if they where invisible meaning hostile units will rely on noise to know where to move or attack,

- Outside of the cloud: no one (friend or foe) cant seen what's inside the cloud except for Ash

Ability effects:

- Enemies outside the smoke can't see inside.

- Enemies inside the smoke are slowed and "paranoid". Paranoid enemies have reduced accuracy, sight range, take increased damage from takedowns and are susceptible to backstab.

- Enemies inside the smoke are highlighted to Ash

(Augment) Poisonous Bomb: Changes the properties of the bomb to use Poisonous smoke.

Ability Changes:

- No longer makes enemies paranoid, instead the smoke will deal Viral damage to enemies inside every second. With a 40

MODS EFFECTS:

Duration Mods:

- Smoke screen duration

Strength Mods:

- Projectile damage, Poison viral damage

Range Mods:

- Smoke Screen size.

 

 

INTIMIDATION TACTICS

Replaces: Smoke bomb

The problem: The current problem with smoke bomb is Invisibility. When you make an ability that grants invisibility your always gonna compete with Loki's invisibility which is not only the quintessential stealth ability but really good at what it does and smoke bomb at best is a decent escape tool and at worst a poor man's invisibility. I think we can give something better to the good old Ash.

Intimidation Tactics: Ash expresses its killing intent to his foes, affecting their ability to fight depending on how close they are to Ash.

- Marks enemies in a cone in front of Ash.

- The ability holds two cones, Outer cone and Inner cone which hold a single unique effect

- 60 Degree FOV

Inner Cone:

- Extends up to half outer cone length.

- Enemies caught too close to ash will cower in place for 4 seconds and drop their weapon.

Outer cone:

- Extends up to 13 meters

- Enemies will shake in fear, reducing their accuracy and movement speed.

 

HIDDEN ARSENAL

 

(New 4) Hidden Arsenal: Equip Ash's signature hidden blades along with a couple of Hidden tools.

- unique "transformation" based around shadow manipulation.

- Ash gains increased movement speed.

- Blocking deflects projectiles back to its attackers while reducing damage by 70%. Passively blocks/parries frontal attacks reducing damage by 40% and opening melee enemies to finishers.

- Charge attack will rip enemies front their armor

- Has its own move set and feeds off melee mods.

- Come with increased finished damage on takedowns and high change to proc status on combos.

- Shuriken: Throws a fan of 4 shurikens

- Shadow Camouflage: Tunrs into Kill zone: Marks an area. Inside the Aream Ash moves faster and regenerates HP every time he kills, Duration and heals are increased when Ash varies his kills

- Charge attacks: Blast away enemies with a short range burst of air, deals Impact damage and knocks down enemies in a small cone in front of Ash.

- Air Slam: Once he makes contact to the ground blasts a puff of air to stagger enemies around Ash.

(Augment) Decoys: Ash spawns two shadow clones with Hidden Blades that will run and attack enemies.

- Increases energy cost by 5 energy per second.

 

 

KILL COMMAND

(New 4) Kill command: Ash enters a marked state where he can mark different enemies for a kill. Pressing the key again will order all Tenno (including himself) to kill said targets. Killing the target grants a 100% crit chance boost to said Tenno and that boost will be refreshed every time they kill

 

 

Hidden Blades Augment

Adapting technique: Hidden Blades can now harness the weapon's especial qualities.

- Includes passives such as Hirudo's life steal on crit or exclusive effects such as syndicate Mods or Rivens.

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2017 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[Baterial]

remember loki is not a DPS based frame as ash, his main ability is 2. Ash's main now i think is teleport because it only is same as it was

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

so i made a tread with a bunch of changes that i feel Ash needs:

 

[AKKILLA]

On 4/20/2017 at 11:13 AM, Nazrethim said:

Well, not everyone wants that, some want a nuke, some a clone summoning sorta-nuke. Problem is that none of those adress as many issues as a Stance Blade Storm would.

There's also the bit where not everyone who agrees on Stance ultimate agrees on how it should be handled. For example:

I think Marking shouldn't be tied to Shuriken, but rather turned into Ash's second passive (similar to how Nidus has two passives, one completely passive and one that affects his abilities). With Shuriken having two functions: as a single piercing non-guided shuriken (perfect for taking out high profile targets) or a barrage of smaller seeking shurikens to all marked targets, the difference would be a 1s long 'Hold' and then the ability goes off. Since we can reverse Tap/Hold abilities via options, you can set which side of the coin goes with the tap.

Same would apply to Smoke Screen: Cloud of Smoke where you are or Cloud of Smoke where you are aiming.

Teleport: Teleport to where you are aiming causing a radial stun+finisher opening (automatically finishing nearest enemy or the one you aimed at if FT is equiped) Or initiate current Blade Storm with whatever melee weapon you have equipped (which could be your melee of choice or stance blade storm's wristblades)

This. Plus make replace his roll/dodge maneuvers by manic like smoky dashes/teleports to add to his elusiveness theme. Instead of autoparry+waves, invulnerability+life steal or ever increasing range, Ash would gain increased mobility+multikill finishers.

Thats a sick Idea! I like it.

I always wanted a charged damage dealing Shuriken, it can be visually bigger and absorb more energy. Imo it be cool if it were like a Glaive where Ash throws, it bounces around and returns to Ash. Thats just My idea tho. The smaller shuriken should be in a cone scattered out, dealin lesser damage, maybe slowing/stunning enemies for a short second and reducing armor.

Smoke Screen could be an invisibility tool, and a crowd control tool. switching from Smoke Cloud too Invisibility for stealth, and assassination. Gives him more synergy, and fits better for smoke shadow.

Teleport also needs more usage, and I do love the idea of a free teleport. A good idea for the stun is to leave a small smoke where ever Ash lands that stuns in an Aoe, so if the target is in that range its stunned. No more teleporting to enemies and they escape from Your Finisher kills!

 

[Nazrethim]

5 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Thats a sick Idea! I like it.

I always wanted a charged damage dealing Shuriken, it can be visually bigger and absorb more energy. Imo it be cool if it were like a Glaive where Ash throws, it bounces around and returns to Ash. Thats just My idea tho. The smaller shuriken should be in a cone scattered out, dealin lesser damage, maybe slowing/stunning enemies for a short second and reducing armor.

That's the premise. The 'Hold' I specify, it's a 1s long (which means it's a short action command) that goes off automatically (so a player doesn't need to hold forever waiting for the chance to use it). As which part of the Shuriken (tap or hold) throws the high damage or the small shuriken barrage it's up in the air since we can reverse polarity anyway.

Also, my concept includes changes for augments too, you may like Seeking Shuriken:

"Seeking Shuriken:

-Single: Strips 100% enemy armor and causes the shuriken to bounce off surfaces it cannot pierce (single non-guided shuriken would have 2.5-3 punch trough mind you) up to 3 times

-Multi: Strips 50% enemy armor and greatly improves Shuriken flight pattern"

5 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Smoke Screen could be an invisibility tool, and a crowd control tool. switching from Smoke Cloud too Invisibility for stealth, and assassination. Gives him more synergy, and fits better for smoke shadow.

It would be a dual thing. Smoke Screen would make Ash cast a smoke cloud at his current position (tap) or the location he is aiming (hold). Ash would become invisible while inside the cloud (which default duration would be 12s) and for 8s after leaving it. And the cloud would stagger enemies inside it. So you can either cast it at an incoming horde on the other side of the room or in a pinch throw it at your feet. Combines with Smoke Shadow by making the cloud affects allies, therefore if, say, an ally falls and everyone rushes to revive Ash could just throw the smoke cloud in their position while holding off enemies elsewhere.

5 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Teleport also needs more usage, and I do love the idea of a free teleport. A good idea for the stun is to leave a small smoke where ever Ash lands that stuns in an Aoe, so if the target is in that range its stunned. No more teleporting to enemies and they escape from Your Finisher kills!

It would also eliminate current BS-TP overlap by baking them into one. The cutscene super finisher animations remain but it's entirely optional.

 

These would also work wonders in Conclave as the main issue with SS it's the short duration, TP simply can't be used on anything airborne or terrain (which 90% of your targets and the second prevents tactical TPs or emergency escapes), Shuriken doesn't track anything nor deals enough damage to be worth (which either side of the dual ability would solve on their own) and BS being generally useless outside of finishing off someone whos health is below 70% and it's shield completely depleted (at which point any weapon does the job better) would be solved by making it a Stance ultimate that makes Ash a rampaging nimble assassin for a short duration in which he can kick some arse.

[AKKILLA]

3 hours ago, Baterial said:

remember loki is not a DPS based frame as ash, his main ability is 2. Ash's main now i think is teleport because it only is same as it was

And what was Your point exactly?

Dont make Ash more invisible or stealthier then Loki?

I dont understand why Loki players always want Ash to be inferior to Loki?

Why want something available to you to be useless? Why not have all Warframes be great? This thread offers great ideas, some can be redesigned a bit but i like better then what we currently have. Ash has no team synergy and a smoke screen cloud adds that, he has no interaction in blade storm and a stance blade storm provides that, his shurikens are bland, this concept adds flavor, his teleport has little use and he offered variety.

I think there is a problem with Loki players tryna always down Ash

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

1 minute ago, AKKILLA said:

And what was Your point exactly?

Dont make Ash more invisible or stealthier then Loki?

I dont understand why Loki players always want Ash to be inferior to Loki?

Why want something available to you to be useless? Why not have all Warframes be great? This thread offers great ideas, some can be redesigned a bit but i like better then what we currently have. Ash has no team synergy and a smoke screen cloud adds that, he has no interaction in blade storm and a stance blade storm provides that, his shurikens are bland, this concept adds flavor, his teleport has little use and he offered variety.

I think there is a problem with Loki players tryna always down Ash

Well i will admit Loki is like the most solid warframe even, always has been and for the longest time Loki and Ash have been butting heads due to their similarities, though if you ask me Ash has always been inferior, sadly.

Less time on his invisibility, less flexible overall, its kinda sad.

[AKKILLA]

23 minutes ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said:

Well i will admit Loki is like the most solid warframe even, always has been and for the longest time Loki and Ash have been butting heads due to their similarities, though if you ask me Ash has always been inferior, sadly.

Less time on his invisibility, less flexible overall, its kinda sad.

He has been in Loki's shadow because DE allow it! In the end it isnt Ash players fault or Loki players either.

With all due respect this is DE's fault, I blame them for all the hatred and anguish I have recieved for being an Ash player, why must I be criticized, categorized, and disrespected because I like playing Ash?

So noone here in this community like Ninjas?

Isnt this games slogan....

NINJAS PLAY FREE?

why do soo many people hate Ash and wish to see him down, and not a better more fun frame for everyone to play?

 

Edited April 25, 2017 by AKKILLA

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

7 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

He has been in Loki's shadow because DE allow it! In the end it isnt Ash players fault or Loki players either.

With all due respect this is DE's fault, I blame them for all the hatred and anguish I have recieved for being an Ash player, why must I be criticized, categorized, and disrespected because I like playing Ash?

So noone here in this community like Ninjas?

Isnt this games slogan....

NINJAS PLAY FREE?

why do soo many people hate Ash and wish to see him down, and not a better more fun frame for everyone to play?

 

people can be jerks, just relax i dont like to antagonize anyone unless they REALLY deserve it (like Konami), despide not playing much (due to various reasons outside my power) i have had a close eye at their reworks and new releases.

I feel they have learned, the way i see it Ash is like Heimerdinger in LoL (and eventually Urgot). Maybe DE is just flexing their tecnology and skills to the come back to Ash big time. Believe me despite how simple Ash is he is REALLY hard to pull off properly. I think i did it but then again even i have made mistakes wich thankfully alot of nice people on these forums have pointed out.

We just need to give them more ideas and perjaps the spark will ignite sooner than later.

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said:

people can be jerks, just relax i dont like to antagonize anyone unless they REALLY deserve it (like Konami), despide not playing much (due to various reasons outside my power) i have had a close eye at their reworks and new releases.

I feel they have learned, the way i see it Ash is like Heimerdinger in LoL (and eventually Urgot). Maybe DE is just flexing their tecnology and skills to the come back to Ash big time. Believe me despite how simple Ash is he is REALLY hard to pull off properly. I think i did it but then again even i have made mistakes wich thankfully alot of nice people on these forums have pointed out.

We just need to give them more ideas and perjaps the spark will ignite sooner than later.

I wouldnt disrespect the developers reason I said with all due respect, but in all honesty its only DE to blame for Ash being inferior, disliked and hated on. If it were up to the fans Im sure Ash would be wonderfully designed. As for Your concepts, they are fantastic ideas which have been spread around here before, I myself have posted similar threads, You just elaborated with Your own identity and interpretation but we practically seek a similar concept.

Im sure DE have seen My along with others threads which are very similar.

My question is what are they waiting for? Why cant we have a Forums thread where they actually respond to our ideas? If not then what is the point of having forums for us to post our ideas when they arent even going to look at, or take into consideration our ideas?

 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

6 hours ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said:

Well i will admit Loki is like the most solid warframe even, always has been and for the longest time Loki and Ash have been butting heads due to their similarities, though if you ask me Ash has always been inferior, sadly.

Less time on his invisibility, less flexible overall, its kinda sad.

Only reason loki has Invisibility that last that long is because of how low he's ehp is, dude gets oneshot from a stray bullet/AOE, also loki's 1 is useless past past level 40 due how fast it dies, his 2 is his main survivability, outside of spy his 3 is pretty bad, and his 4 turn enemies into melee units. Ash on the other hand has better survivability since he has access to invis and a better overall ehp, shuriken can kill up to lvl 60 enemies max, smokescreen is an escape ability or a get in get out. Teleport can kill lvl 100 corrupted heavy Gunners/bombard with strong melee weapons and if you use CL and/or fatal teleport you can kill past lvl 100, and one of the most underestimated nuke ability, Bladestorm. Bladestorm may be slow but it can scale better than most other damage ability since

1. It uses finisher + bleed procs which both are consider to be the best damage types in the game since they both bypass one of the biggest problem when it comes to enemy scaling which is armor.

2. Bladestorm also scales with the combo multiplier which means that the more you use it with body count/drifting contact, the stronger it gets.

If you build ash right you can easily reach the one hour mark on MOT against lvl 110ish enemies with just smokescreen & bladestorm alone, and if you use seeking shuriken and/or fatal teleport you can melt lvl 150+ enemies in just seconds.

Edit: also if you use venka Prime's modified combo multiplier bladestorm deals so much damage that lvl 150 corrupted bombards die like their lvl 10 butchers

Edited April 26, 2017 by (XB1)CFE Angry

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Ash may not be as creative or fancy as the new frames, but his abilities are still pretty solid when to use them at the right time and place. Now, don't get me wrong ash could use some tweaks, but calling him an inferior anything is just wrong.

Edited April 25, 2017 by (XB1)CFE Angry

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Ash may not be as creative or fancy as the new frames, but his abilities are still pretty solid when to use them at the right time and place. Now, don't get me wrong ash could use some tweaks, but calling him an inferior anything is just wrong.

That still doesnt justify the fact he can be redesigned way better.

He gets the job done in a frustrating and boring way, he can be much better if each ability he has gets QoL and his Blade Storm seriously needs a Stance Overhaul in my strong opinion. He has no team utility and smoke screen is the one ability that should offer this yet for some strange reason DE havent visualized this concept of an actual smoke cloud for Crowd Control AoE

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

That still doesnt justify the fact he can be redesigned way better.

He gets the job done in a frustrating and boring way, he can be much better if each ability he has gets QoL and his Blade Storm seriously needs a Stance Overhaul in my strong opinion. He has no team utility and smoke screen is the one ability that should offer this yet for some strange reason DE havent visualized this concept of an actual smoke cloud for Crowd Control AoE

Honestly me and plenty of people believe ash is in perfect place and pretty fun. It just depends on how you view him. Also be careful for what you ask for since DE tends to sacrifice something when they redesign Warframes and their abilities.

[AKKILLA]

2 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Honestly me and plenty of people believe ash is in perfect place and pretty fun. It just depends on how you view him. Also be careful for what you ask for since DE tends to sacrifice something when they redesign Warframes and their abilities.

Be careful of what exactly?

I don't play Warframe anymore anyway. I'm actually disgusted in Ash, and Warframe honestly held My attention this long cause of Ash.

Id love to see what they would do to him very soon, no one has time to wait months/years for DE to decide to fix/rework a certain frame in particular.

 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

6 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Be careful of what exactly?

I don't play Warframe anymore anyway. I'm actually disgusted in Ash, and Warframe honestly held My attention this long cause of Ash.

Id love to see what they would do to him very soon, no one has time to wait months/years for DE to decide to fix/rework a certain frame in particular.

 

Wait, so ash was the only reason you played Warframe, jeez. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by (XB1)CFE Angry

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The "poor man's invisibility" is actually a fully functional reset button to stealth multipliers.

 

A nothing but mixed/utility build enables armor depell while playing gun. Adding seeking shuriken adds ranged support. Adding fatal teleport makes it insta oneshot, what can be combined with stuff like Vulkan Blitz (jat kittag). Finishers not your thing? Use Rising Storm to prolong the reset time to solid 20s+. Great tool for Maiming strike too.

 

He can be played with melee but doesn't have to. He got damage support with the armor drain, easy finishers, stealth support (which can be used for offhand melee just as well - the reset and combo substain even kinda compliments it.) His "awkward spot" is damage, what can hardly be considered a problem.

All of this makes the use of arcane trickery and naramon pretty attractive, using any or both fills his gap.

 

His only flaw at the moment is in fact how difficult and slow Bladestorm has become. I ask you, is this really reason for a full rework when fixing this one ability would be more then enough?...

Edited April 26, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

10 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

 

My question is what are they waiting for? Why cant we have a Forums thread where they actually respond to our ideas? If not then what is the point of having forums for us to post our ideas when they arent even going to look at, or take into consideration our ideas?

 

Why would they? It's theyr game, not ours. 

 

Feedback in its essence mainly serves for inspiration and valuating the existing content. It's the voice of the masses basicly. 

What individualls want is irrelevant in the bigger picture, what is relevant is wheather they're satisfied or not

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Honestly me and plenty of people believe ash is in perfect place and pretty fun. It just depends on how you view him. Also be careful for what you ask for since DE tends to sacrifice something when they redesign Warframes and their abilities.

^ and this is how things stand. People ARE satisfied. Not as much as they possibly can be but enough to not waste endless hours into redesigning a concept that works and people like.

 

Ain't you letting this whole feedback thing going a little over your head? You're a player giving feedback, no frickin manager who's job it is to make these decisions. Wanna make a difference? Consider getting yourself propper education and work your way up in theyr company.

Edited April 26, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Wait, so ash was the only reason you played Warframe, jeez. 

It may not look like a big deal, but some people play for a specific role or character. I was about to quit Warframe merely after 3 days of play, why? Stealth wasn't a viable path at all and Spy was a gunfest joke. Then DE released Spy 2.0 and I got amazed by that and 3 years later I'm still here.

But what they did to Ash (that is, nerfing him without changing anything in playstyle other than adding a seizure inducing marking phase to his ult) is a betrayal. Ash players counted on Ash being improved with a rework, instead we only got a sh*tty marking mode that was pointed out months in advance it would s*ck and the energy cost per target increased by 200%, 600% if you account for all 3 marks.

 

Now to the OP.

I like this rework, but I have a few pointers:

-Why Shuriken doesn't have inate punch trough? Why not give it PT by default and make the augment release a blast per enemy pierced?

-Shuriken Augment pretty much removes it's scalability, since Armor is kind of a big deal as level goes up, the new augment would make Shuriken shred low level enemies but will do jack vs high level enemies, combo counter be damned damage-wise.

-Ashiko sounds fun. If used while latching or against a wall, would it trigger old wallrun animation? Also, the augment seems more counterproductive if it doesn't Finish unalerted enemies, why not limit it's "kick dude into space" only for Alerted enemies?

-Smoke Bomb looks legit, though the healing augment is rather counter to Ash theme (he's an assassin, not a medic) but it's a cool idea. The healing is rather weak too, even if it was increased by the Combo counter (which it isn't). I think Smoke Shadow could be left as it is if the other changes to Smoke Screen are done.

-Smoke Bomb PvP augment is flat out broken, even just applying a Viral proc would be enough for Conclave standards, the damage is unecesary.

-As for the ultimate, I think Blade Storm doesn't fit as a combo name, but rather as the name of the Stance and ability (Similar to how Hysteria, Exalted Blade and Primal Fury have the ability name as the name of the Stance). The combo could be renamed "Flesh Ripper" or something.

[Somethinglurks]

16 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

 

Teleport also needs more usage, and I do love the idea of a free teleport. A good idea for the stun is to leave a small smoke where ever Ash lands that stuns in an Aoe, so if the target is in that range its stunned. No more teleporting to enemies and they escape from Your Finisher kills!

 

This makes me very upset when it happens.  I would love this change.

[Neightrix]

I support any option that makes Blade Storm not painfully slow in execution. It is far too slow. Adjustments to damage or energy costs won't have any effect.

[(PSN)LastDoomKnight]

Ok, I'm really not over how much of a dissapointment the Ash rework was. Although DE said they wanted to get rid of the bladestorm cutscenes, they didnt? Like, why? Bladestorm really should be an exalted weapon or just a more interactive power that synergies with his other abilities (lots of great ideas on ash revisited thread). Why can't DE give him a rework that is solid, balanced, and most of all engaging and fun for ash? They've done it before with other frames, and in time I hope they look at him again.

Edited April 27, 2017 by (PS4)LastDoomKnight

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

16 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Only reason loki has Invisibility that last that long is because of how low he's ehp is, dude gets oneshot from a stray bullet/AOE, also loki's 1 is useless past past level 40 due how fast it dies, his 2 is his main survivability, outside of spy his 3 is pretty bad, and his 4 turn enemies into melee units. Ash on the other hand has better survivability since he has access to invis and a better overall ehp, shuriken can kill up to lvl 60 enemies max, smokescreen is an escape ability or a get in get out. Teleport can kill lvl 100 corrupted heavy Gunners/bombard with strong melee weapons and if you use CL and/or fatal teleport you can kill past lvl 100, and one of the most underestimated nuke ability, Bladestorm. Bladestorm may be slow but it can scale better than most other damage ability since

1. It uses finisher + bleed procs which both are consider to be the best damage types in the game since they both bypass one of the biggest problem when it comes to enemy scaling which is armor.

2. Bladestorm also scales with the combo multiplier which means that the more you use it with body count/drifting contact, the stronger it gets.

If you build ash right you can easily reach the one hour mark on MOT against lvl 110ish enemies with just smokescreen & bladestorm alone, and if you use seeking shuriken and/or fatal teleport you can melt lvl 150+ enemies in just seconds.

Edit: also if you use venka Prime's modified combo multiplier bladestorm deals so much damage that lvl 150 corrupted bombards die like their lvl 10 butchers

I think you missed the point. I think i made pretty clear in the post that Bladestorm's power is not that it doesnt kill, again it does its job really well but its a really boring and slow ability. You pop it, mark a few targets and watch Ash do the job for you, where is the fun in that?

If you read the post again you will notice i kept alot of Ash's ideas intact: His shurikens still hit really hard, now scale with his combo meter and fire much faster, Smokescreen now hides allies by default and can be thrown for set ups, his teleport is now more presice and faster and his Ult now YOU are the one using the blades and they can instant kill enemies with finishers.

All i did in this rework was to improve on what he was already good at and clean up the messy parts (his ult mainly).

One last thing: I feel your selling Loki short, just believe me on this one he IS more usefull than Ash. Sure Ash can kill people with his Bladestorm but with proper range mods Loki can turn an entire room of heavy duty enemies into glorified melee infested, Melee units a warframe with heavy crowd control will have no problem gathering for everyone to enjoy like Vauban's Vortex or Nezha's Spears of Light. Hell Saryn would have a field day on those guys.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

The "poor man's invisibility" is actually a fully functional reset button to stealth multipliers.

 

A nothing but mixed/utility build enables armor depell while playing gun. Adding seeking shuriken adds ranged support. Adding fatal teleport makes it insta oneshot, what can be combined with stuff like Vulkan Blitz (jat kittag). Finishers not your thing? Use Rising Storm to prolong the reset time to solid 28s+. Great tool for Maiming strike too.

 

He can be played with melee but doesn't have to. He got damage support with the armor drain, easy finishers, stealth support (which can be used for offhand melee just as well - the reset and combo substain even kinda compliments it.) His "awkward spot" is damage, what can hardly be considered a problem.

All of this makes the use of arcane trickery and naramon pretty attractive, using any or both fills his gap.

 

His only flaw at the moment is in fact how difficult and slow Bladestorm has become. I ask you, is this really reason for a full rework when fixing this one ability would be more then enough?...

Given the fact that what my rework really does is cleaning up his kit and make it more refined and focused then yeah i think he needs it.

BTW that "Armor redution" thing... rememeber you can only hit one enemy at a time and you need a bunch of Power Strenght (43% says the wiki) for it to rip it right away. I feel all you just said would be better done my my version of Ash.

 

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

It may not look like a big deal, but some people play for a specific role or character. I was about to quit Warframe merely after 3 days of play, why? Stealth wasn't a viable path at all and Spy was a gunfest joke. Then DE released Spy 2.0 and I got amazed by that and 3 years later I'm still here.

But what they did to Ash (that is, nerfing him without changing anything in playstyle other than adding a seizure inducing marking phase to his ult) is a betrayal. Ash players counted on Ash being improved with a rework, instead we only got a sh*tty marking mode that was pointed out months in advance it would s*ck and the energy cost per target increased by 200%, 600% if you account for all 3 marks.

 

Now to the OP.

I like this rework, but I have a few pointers:

-Why Shuriken doesn't have inate punch trough? Why not give it PT by default and make the augment release a blast per enemy pierced?

-Shuriken Augment pretty much removes it's scalability, since Armor is kind of a big deal as level goes up, the new augment would make Shuriken shred low level enemies but will do jack vs high level enemies, combo counter be damned damage-wise.

-Ashiko sounds fun. If used while latching or against a wall, would it trigger old wallrun animation? Also, the augment seems more counterproductive if it doesn't Finish unalerted enemies, why not limit it's "kick dude into space" only for Alerted enemies?

-Smoke Bomb looks legit, though the healing augment is rather counter to Ash theme (he's an assassin, not a medic) but it's a cool idea. The healing is rather weak too, even if it was increased by the Combo counter (which it isn't). I think Smoke Shadow could be left as it is if the other changes to Smoke Screen are done.

-Smoke Bomb PvP augment is flat out broken, even just applying a Viral proc would be enough for Conclave standards, the damage is unecesary.

-As for the ultimate, I think Blade Storm doesn't fit as a combo name, but rather as the name of the Stance and ability (Similar to how Hysteria, Exalted Blade and Primal Fury have the ability name as the name of the Stance). The combo could be renamed "Flesh Ripper" or something.

- Shuriken: I dunno given all the things that this new Shuriken can do (scales with combo counter and builds it up) Punch Through sounds like it would be too much, same about the Armor shred. Though you have given me an idea for an Armor Shred Augment.

- Explosive Kunai is ment to be a crowd control power. it will knock down all enemies in the explosion's range, couple that with Hidden Blade's instant kill on finishers and you got a resipe for DEATH..

- Springboard Dropkick, like Explosive Kunai, is ment to be serve a diferent purpose. Base Ashiko is for takedowns and traverse through the battlefield quickly while the Dropkick is more to aid in melee combat.

- The healing augment is more about that more spiritual side of Ninjas, wich is why i called it Incense. Its ment to be a small boost to keep allies going and maybe making the healer's job easier.

- Remember that this rework is purely for PvE since PvP balance is still on the works so im not messing with that.

- Yeah i was just looking for a place to put it as a reference.