Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Nazrethim]

33 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

You, my friend, are the perfect "captain's log" lol.

Thanks. I remember the hotfix that announced the "chat while bs" was chokful of jokes about using trade chat during bladestorm because the transactions (From finding someone, to bargaining, to the "okay, we will meet at dojo") would last about the same as bladestorming 15 dudes.

[Shad0wWatcher]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Thanks. I remember the hotfix that announced the "chat while bs" was chokful of jokes about using trade chat during bladestorm because the transactions (From finding someone, to bargaining, to the "okay, we will meet at dojo") would last about the same as bladestorming 15 dudes.

I love how it's just a meme now.

[Nazrethim]

11 hours ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

I love how it's just a meme now.

And it's sad how, to some degree, the 'Ash Prime on wheelchair' meme became a reality.

[Foxtrot39]

Honestly they really need to totaly take out the "press 4 two time and wait" alltogether, bladestorm was a press 4 and wait before and now its is press 4 and wait with extra steps, wich is what annoy most people

Fatal teleport still tend to not auto perform finisher on enemies with the augment depending of the mob movements, the fact it can't be used to perform stealth finisher is also annoying

People are more rewarded from spider equinox and rushing with pole arms than someone taking time to plan how kill enemies without putting them into sleep one by one with finisher while staying out of LOS of others, its like stealth isn't rewarding if its not rushing with a silenced miniguns and turn all enemies into nothing but practice targets

But thats another story regarding how the stealth kill system needs a rework

Smoke bomb could use a little duration increase or something more than slightly stagger nearby enemies

Edited November 23, 2017 by Foxtrot39

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Guys, I can`t go into detail right now but I'm planning to do something real soon relating to ash.

HINT: The Sacrifice Quest....

[Shad0wWatcher]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Guys, I can`t go into detail right now but I'm planning to do something real soon relating to ash.

HINT: The Sacrifice Quest....

Curious to how that quest relates to Ash specifically.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

8 hours ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Curious to how that quest relates to Ash specifically.

You will find out soon enough.

[(PSN)Siriguillo]

Now that we have Shadow Step removed from the focus tree, lets just turn ash's 4 into a toggle ability that consumes energy per second and enables shadow step and every attack while invisible should have increased critical chance, maybe a +5% +10% +%15 because he will be using his hidden blades, and let those take advantage of the melee mods. Thoughts?

P.S. The current BS is so useless, specially when you have frames like saryn, equinox, nova and mesa that just clean up the map in a flash, why would you pick BS? Ash, should be the MESA of MELEE.

[Nazrethim]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Siriguillo said:

Now that we have Shadow Step removed from the focus tree, lets just turn ash's 4 into a toggle ability that consumes energy per second and enables shadow step and every attack while invisible should have increased critical chance, maybe a +5% +10% +%15 because he will be using his hidden blades, and let those take advantage of the melee mods. Thoughts?

P.S. The current BS is so useless, specially when you have frames like saryn, equinox, nova and mesa that just clean up the map in a flash, why would you pick BS? Ash, should be the MESA of MELEE.

So basically turn blade storm from the redundant mildly ineffective ability it is to a cool super mode? You know what's also an upside? DE could keep the animations by just merging current BS with Teleport, and adding a SUper mode on top as a 4th. So the ones who want a super mode win and the ones who want to keep the animations too!

[(PSN)Siriguillo]

3 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

So basically turn blade storm from the redundant mildly ineffective ability it is to a cool super mode? You know what's also an upside? DE could keep the animations by just merging current BS with Teleport, and adding a SUper mode on top as a 4th. So the ones who want a super mode win and the ones who want to keep the animations too!

The strange thing is, like many frames, ash is not actually bad, is that other frames are simply way way better, which, is what makes no sense to me, why are frames so unbalance. I get having diversity in powers and that someone could be having fun with it as it is, but when you get Ash join a team and by the end of the round you barely do any damage or get any kills when you are the ASSASIN warframe, its kind of silly and dissapointing.

[Nazrethim]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Siriguillo said:

The strange thing is, like many frames, ash is not actually bad, is that other frames are simply way way better, which, is what makes no sense to me, why are frames so unbalance. I get having diversity in powers and that someone could be having fun with it as it is, but when you get Ash join a team and by the end of the round you barely do any damage or get any kills when you are the ASSASIN warframe, its kind of silly and dissapointing.

Because Ash is a well balanced assassin for a game in which you face few enemies. The problem is that WF is a horde game, so single target or target-by-target assassins just lag behind the mass nukers.

[(PSN)Siriguillo]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

Because Ash is a well balanced assassin for a game in which you face few enemies. The problem is that WF is a horde game, so single target or target-by-target assassins just lag behind the mass nukers.

but he is not even a single target nuker, nova is more target buker than him, he needs an augment, he need a dagger and a dagger mod to be the single target nuker, but any frame with a dagger with covert litallity with an ability that opens to finishers, like Excalibur, and even the tank Inaros can do the same, so, Ash fails even at single targets in comparison.

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Siriguillo said:

but he is not even a single target nuker, nova is more target buker than him, he needs an augment, he need a dagger and a dagger mod to be the single target nuker, but any frame with a dagger with covert litallity with an ability that opens to finishers, like Excalibur, and even the tank Inaros can do the same, so, Ash fails even at single targets in comparison.

Not really. Blade Storm is a very powerful single target killing tool too. Fatal Teleport just scales much better. And Covert Lethality isn't even required for regular gameplay because Finisher attacks hit very hard, only exception being Nox units.

Teleport is only a problem unaugmented on certain situations, like against enemies protected by Ancient Healers.

The problem with Ash isn't single target damage, it's his inability to deal with crowds effectively. That's where he's too weak.

[-CG-Aurigio]

DE ITS BEEN A YEAR COME ONE

Edited November 25, 2017 by GPDM

[Shad0wWatcher]

7 hours ago, GPDM said:

DE ITS BEEN A YEAR COME ON

Dude it's been over a year already xD

[Nazrethim]

10 hours ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Dude it's been over a year already xD

Depends what you are looking at. It's been a year and a half since this thread started, a whole year since the actual release of the revisit, and we are 2 months away from getting to the second year since they announced bladestorm rework, which got this whole ball rolling in the first place.

[catalyst22]

Am 11/24/2017 um 16:44 schrieb Nazrethim:

The problem with Ash isn't single target damage, it's his inability to deal with crowds effectively. That's where he's too weak.

Exactly and that is actually very easy to fix most of the code already exists. Turn Baldestorm into a 25 energy curse that triggers the acid shells/vulcan blitz/thermagnetic shells explosion on target death and done.

Roll the current BS into Teleport (marking starts if you hold instead of press) and change it so that Ash can finish reloads he started before the cut-scene during the cut-scene.

Give Shuriken some penetration and make sure 1 Shuriken hits whoever you are aiming at. (They could also fix Seeking Shuriken being very unreliable with bad ping)

There almost 0 effort, all abilites and augments are kept, synergy is added and he is brought in line with modern frames. DE plz

 

edit: on 2nd thought they should also:

Double or even triple the range of Teleport (now that we are moving into open worlds the current range is a joke)

And prioritize Teleport marks who are also cursed by the new Blade Storm

Edited November 26, 2017 by catalyst22

[Shad0wWatcher]

6 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Depends what you are looking at. It's been a year and a half since this thread started, a whole year since the actual release of the revisit, and we are 2 months away from getting to the second year since they announced bladestorm rework, which got this whole ball rolling in the first place.

Oh i meant the thread :P

[Doomsknightmare]

lol this thread is still ongoing.

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

And going and going and I think this is just an energizer bunny that simply never runs out until DE makes a move......

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

And going and going and I think this is just an energizer bunny that simply never runs out until DE makes a move......

Indeed. This thread will go on until DE gives Ash another chance of getting an actual good rework that isn't a straight nerf, like the other frames did.

[Yperkeimenos]

Hi all, after reading through this thread,i couldn't resist the urge to participate as well. I really like the way Ash looks,especially with the Deluxe skin on, but not the way he plays. I could never understand why Blade storm was a problem,aside from the animation, when other frames ,like Ember, Saryn, Mag after the rework etc can clear out whole maps by pressing a few or one buttons. This new mark mechanic doesn't sit well with me either, especially with the high energy cost and time consuming process that it is. Of course being able to cast smoke screen as an one handed action is a good improvement , but it's Blade storm that's Ash's trademark ability and it's clunky. Fatal Teleport missing it's mark a quarter of the time ,doesn't help Ash's image as an assassin either as is the fact that most unique type of enemies are immune to fatal teleport (i wonder how Alad's Pet got away). All in all, if i want a stealth frame i can trust Loki to do a better job and i find myself playing Oberon more and more ,after his rework, leaving Ash behind.

Edited November 27, 2017 by Yperkeimenos
various corrections and added the Alad V pet line

[Nazrethim]

As I said many times, Pre-nerf Blade Storm was really balanced and well designed. DId it have flaws? yes, but every frame has. And after deep contemplation, I came to understand what was pre-nerf Blade Storm's main problem: Community Perception.

Blade Storm was regarded as the ultimate noobtube, despite other frames having them too (and way more effective than BS ever was too!). You were a scum of the earth just by playing Ash.

Now it's nerfed to the point only diehard fans of the frame (y'know, the ones who didn't actually rely entirely on BS and actually used his whole ability set) keep playing him, most players abandoning the boat (and to some fans of the frame, abandoning the game entirely). It's pointless and redundant and ineffective.

DE needs to go back to Ash, pay attention to actual fans who know what the problems are and give Ash the rework he should have gotten in the first place before all this happened.

[TheOnlyWarBear]

I still can't fathom why I can't teleport wherever I point in PvE like I can in PvP, let alone a major rework

[RobRalneR]

14 hours ago, Kunsumption said:

I still can't fathom why I can't teleport wherever I point in PvE like I can in PvP, let alone a major rework

Because in PvP there are no objects to teleport to. Teleport in PvP is designed that way to either:

• Escape from danger
• Teleport to a spot faster

      OR

• Surprise an enemy player

Why it's designed like that? Because in Conclave, energy is limited and Ash can only teleport a few times and can only teleport within 20 meters to his target. If Ash decides to use all his energy on Teleport, he won't have enough energy to use his other abilities. This tactic is used to escape from your enemy if your health is low or you're running out of ammo. Increasing the range would make it unbalanced because then the enemy player will have a harder time catching up with you.

It's like playing an unfair game of "Evolve" where the monster is extremely fast while 4 other players are chasing him endlessly till the monster evolves to its ultimate form and becomes unstoppable.

Nova, on the other hand, has a side-effect. If she activates wormhole, her enemies can also use it, not just her allies.

In PvE, I find Ash's Teleport ability balanced because you can "technically" teleport anywhere just like with Loki's 1st and 3rd ability.

Why not make it like PvP? Because not only his ability has a significantly increased range, but you teleport directly to your target who has a health bar.

Using Teleport by just pointing at a location without a health bar to teleport to would make it, once again, unbalanced. It would make Archwing in PoE pointless since you can teleport to a landscape instantaneously, it would make Operators useless since the ability has increased range and has instantaneous travel and it would make other frames with mobility abilities (i. e. Hydroid's Tidal Surge) laughable and slow.

Since this is a horde based game, leaving Teleport just the way it is (with some improvements like better targetting) makes it already useful since you're always encountering enemies and you can teleport directly to them. You can even teleport to your allies just to catch up with them. Besides, we already have Operators who can dash from one place to another and we have Nova who can deploy a wormhole for us everyone to use. In PvP however, it would be a nightmare to target enemy players with Ash's Teleport, so they added it as a point to wall/ground ability because not only it can be used to escape or reach places quickly, but the enemy players you encounter are fast and few.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Rob12772